Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

dzer2 wrote: »

Loads of them down there too

But the comment shows where you are really in terms of hurling bias
It never really bothers me where a chap is from as long as he his chance
Cody was that way too but has regressed lately

I have no bias at all, I really hope that all those players you mentioned are there, it just undermines your argument that you cant even give one name.

dzer2 wrote: »

No one good enough in the north clubs yeah no bias,

Listen this is getting boring, I just asked you to name players not on the under 21 panel from any part of the county who should have been there, was genuinely interested in your thoughts, it was you who brought up the north south thing, where did I say that nobody from the North wasnt good enough, I thought Delaney and Blanchfield were some of the only players who came out of the game well yesterday, both from Northern clubs as I understand it.

Ryan Bergin starts all ireland semi yet not named on panel for the final? Not injured so seems v strange

St Kierans have dominated colleges hurling in last 6/7 years. Kk cbs their nearest challengers. So my question is whats going on at minor and u-21 level to develop these players? Yesterday summed it up. 3 years ago i watched our minor team all though the year and thought that it was the best we'd had in 10 years. But that group has regressed so much and the county board needs to ask why.
I don't have an issue with eddie as manager, he's the figurehead. The bigger issue in my view is the inexperienced backroom team he selected. Richie Neill, richie doyle and bob aylward all great hurling men but what coaching experience do any have?
Our strategy yesterday was lash it down the field and win your own ball. Same as all kk strategy the last 15 years. But only donnelly and blanch could compete physically with limerick so we needed to play cuter. This is where coaching comes in.
The county board need to do some serious thinking on next years management team and we need a review on why outstanding hurlers are regressing after 16/17

minty81 wrote: »

St Kierans have dominated colleges hurling in last 6/7 years. Kk cbs their nearest challengers. So my question is whats going on at minor and u-21 level to develop these players? Yesterday summed it up. 3 years ago i watched our minor team all though the year and thought that it was the best we'd had in 10 years. But that group has regressed so much and the county board needs to ask why.
I don't have an issue with eddie as manager, he's the figurehead. The bigger issue in my view is the inexperienced backroom team he selected. Richie Neill, richie doyle and bob aylward all great hurling men but what coaching experience do any have?
Our strategy yesterday was lash it down the field and win your own ball. Same as all kk strategy the last 15 years. But only donnelly and blanch could compete physically with limerick so we needed to play cuter. This is where coaching comes in.
The county board need to do some serious thinking on next years management team and we need a review on why outstanding hurlers are regressing after 16/17

Kierans and cbs might be just pairing over the cracks though, kierans in particular bring in players from a much wider catchment than would be normal for any school, and hurlers make a point of going there. There is at least one poster here who thinks kierans actually damages our underage development, but at the very least their success is founded on conditions that don't necessarily reflect the real strength of underage hurling in the county.

That having been said you're right, massive regression at under 21, and not for the first time at that grade for us.

It'll be interesting to see how pj Ryan progresses in westmeath as well, it's definitely problematic to throw in lads in high profile jobs with no experience. There's a reason managers have to read their stripes, it's not just a tradition, managing is a complicated job that takes time to learn. Experience as a player is nice but there's more to it than that and it should take a long time to learn the ropes.

Actually I can't think of anyone who successfully transitioned from playing to a high profile management position as quickly as Brennan has done.

Kilkenny's forwards not good enough on the day.

Not quite sure how they threw that game away to be honest.

No wonder nobody watches Camogie, it's so poor it's embarrassing.

BoroMan32 wrote: »

Kilkenny's forwards not good enough on the day.

Not quite sure how they threw that game away to be honest.

That last score was handed to cork on a plate, with a ribbon on top. I don't know how no one got a block on the cork lady for the winning point. So annoyed right now after a good comeback.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how pj Ryan progresses in westmeath as well, it's definitely problematic to throw in lads in high profile jobs with no experience. There's a reason managers have to read their stripes, it's not just a tradition, managing is a complicated job that takes time to learn. Experience as a player is nice but there's more to it than that and it should take a long time to learn the ropes.

Actually I can't think of anyone who successfully transitioned from playing to a high profile management position as quickly as Brennan has done.

I guess you mean PJ in Wexford? He is essentially the goalkeeping coach I think but was very vocal in Wexford Park the night Wexford spanked us!

I think there has to be an apprenticeship of sorts to learn the ropes. The challenge is where to get that opportunity? Apart from the annual switching of stalwarts in club management, the chances are probably more likely outside of Kilkenny. Tom Mullally has coached Wexford minors and u21 as well as at least one club team in Wexford and was involved in Carlow clubs too. He wasalso with Kilkenny minors when Adrian Ronan was involves. DJ is with IT Carlow, doing as lot with Martin Fogarty is his role as National Hurling Co-ordinator and sometimes does coaching sessions in Wexford as well. Should Kilkenny look at identifying a core of coaches and supporting them to develop skills in management through county squads/teams? Is that too far fetched or unrealistic? Either way, something new has to be considered. Every year the gap widens and while at senior we have been very strong, its from u21 down where the issuers are: fix them and we improve. No guarantees. A poster mentioned Bergin from John Lockes. I was wondering what the story was. Same lad I recall getting subbed v Galway in 2015 when playing solid in the corner.

raindodger wrote: »

Limerick man here, so starved of any success will read anything abou t yesterdays match.
Can see by the tone of the discussion why ye were at the top for so long and it wont be long before your back there again.
If ye think your having a famine imagine how we feel like,
also ye were very gracious in defeat

Congrats to ye down there in Limerick. Hope ye can transition the U21 success to senior achievers in the years to come. Also as a side note Limerick supporters are top class, even during a 'famine'.

soft free wrote: »

Hurling development doesn’t happen in isolation.
Whatever we may or may not be doing, other counties are working at development and currently at a higher level and more intensity than what we are at. Our much vaunted Development Squad system brought us an advantage at underage but that it no longer the case. And squads are only one part of the development of players, clubs are first and foremost,

soft free - I can see you've put a lot of thought, and have a lot of relevant info, into your post. Definitely a topic for discussion in the quiet months ahead. A few comments I'd add:

U14 - I for one believe that the Kilkenny ‘softly softly’ approach of phasing in players to the development squad structure is preferable. I think the approach in other counties puts on too much pressure at a very young age, and the U14 Tony Forristal tournament may become the be all and end all for them.

U17 - I take your point about Kilkenny's demise from U14 kingpins 3 years ago. However, they lost a big number of their key players to this year’s minor team. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, Dublin and eventual winners Cork managed to play players on both panels. Looking at KK's minor semi-final, the U17s were certainly robbed of a couple of key personnel.

Regional 'development' blitzes - did they actually get off the ground? I heard them announced early on, but didn't hear anything more about them. I'm involved at club level and they certainly didn’t filter down to our club.

Clubs - I think a huge amount is being done at club level, but I think they're badly hamstrung by the underage fixtures mess. Let me take U16 as an example. The season consists of about 5 or 6 games played over the month of April, then a championship of max 4 games (just 1 for half the clubs!) played over 2 or 3 weeks in August. Pick up even a small injury, or go away for a week off at the wrong time, and you could miss the whole thing. These lads can end up with very little hurling during a crucial phase of their development.

Like I say, you could have started up a topic for lively discussion in the off season…

Another Limerick man here lads and have been reading yer posts I think re yesterday's match we were the better team but in first half I felt had ye not been so wasteful it could have been closer a few balls misdirected by your forwards that could have caused us problems had the passes came off. I wouldn't be despondent if I was a Kk man huge tradition and piles of young lads hurling so ye'll always be there and thereabouts plus the success yeve had in last decade or so would do even the top 3 counties for a lifetime I can only imagine what it must have felt like we're so starved I actually watched the 2014 semi final on YouTube today really hope we can learn from past mistakes and push on with this crop and try end our famine.

sportsmaddad wrote: »

soft free - I can see you've put a lot of thought, and have a lot of relevant info, into your post. Definitely a topic for discussion in the quiet months ahead. A few comments I'd add:

U14 - I for one believe that the Kilkenny ‘softly softly’ approach of phasing in players to the development squad structure is preferable. I think the approach in other counties puts on too much pressure at a very young age, and the U14 Tony Forristal tournament may become the be all and end all for them.

U17 - I take your point about Kilkenny's demise from U14 kingpins 3 years ago. However, they lost a big number of their key players to this year’s minor team. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, Dublin and eventual winners Cork managed to play players on both panels. Looking at KK's minor semi-final, the U17s were certainly robbed of a couple of key personnel.

Regional 'development' blitzes - did they actually get off the ground? I heard them announced early on, but didn't hear anything more about them. I'm involved at club level and they certainly didn’t filter down to our club.

Clubs - I think a huge amount is being done at club level, but I think they're badly hamstrung by the underage fixtures mess. Let me take U16 as an example. The season consists of about 5 or 6 games played over the month of April, then a championship of max 4 games (just 1 for half the clubs!) played over 2 or 3 weeks in August. Pick up even a small injury, or go away for a week off at the wrong time, and you could miss the whole thing. These lads can end up with very little hurling during a crucial phase of their development.

Like I say, you could have started up a topic for lively discussion in the off season…

U16 needs a revamp, no doubt. A few years ago we went away over Easter and missed two games. A good few 16s will also hurl minor so they are getting games but that age, for me, is a critical in the areas of physical and mental development.

Clubs are working hard, some could be doing more and I include my own in that. Generally

The u13/14 introduction is an interesting one. I've always been of the view that 14 is time enough for lads but I wonder is there an advantage to it in player development terms but with work any advantages gained can be overcome with good coaching and plenty of games. I highlighted other counties going at u13 as an indication of where some trends are heading towards.

I'm not overly pessimistic for the future, far from it. But I sense that this year at inter county level we have been cranky in our hurling, kind of playing without any verve. I've no idea as to why.

The overall point I'm trying to make is that all serious hurling counties are working on development when for many years they were not. I think we need to focus as much resources and energy on clubs as we can for the obvious reasons. I wouldn't be one for ripping it what we have done in the past but more like sharpening the lead. The weight of expectation for Kilkenny inter county hurling comes not just the past 130 years but the Cody era also. I've no idea whether we will ever see players the caliber of Tommy, JJ, Mick Kavanagh again but our coaching, club, school, squads and inter county has to be as good as it can be to make players as technically competent and as ready as they can be.