Teaching our children in schools that the fairies will take care of them, wtf?

07-09-2017 01:00AM

Get a grip op, it's not the same thing as teaching about religion at all.

Like anna080 mentioned, not all children of the intended age group would be able to verbalise their anxieties. And like another poster also mentioned,the unfortunate truth is not all children have parents who would take the time to listen to those worries either.

Not to mention that even small children have a right to privacy. They don't have to tell their parents every little worry that crosses their mind. Maybe they have their own reasons for seeking out a neutral ear to share them with, be if the family dog, an imaginary friend or fairy.

Believe it or not, even a small child likes the feeling of fixing a problem for themselves and just talking about a problem or worry can help them to see the solution. It's a very empowering feeling and contrary to what you believe, this in turn makes them more resilient not less. Your parents fixing every tiny issue or patting you on the head for each little insecurity only teaches a child to be reliant on others and not how to cope if they find themselves temporarily alone in something.

Of course I'm not saying a child shouldn't feel safe turning to their parents or shouldn't seek help from adults. Just that it can also be good to have other outlets. I hardly think a worry plaque is going to completely replace the role of a parent or trusted adult. But it's ok to have options.

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 01:00AM

Noveight wrote: »

Imagine you'd a 5 year old who started Junior Infants last week and at the parent teacher meeting (in November or February or whenever) their teacher was trotting out lines on giving your child cues about how best to deal with life.

Yeah, you'd be right to tell that teacher to catch a hold of themselves. Young children should have their world filled with fairy tales, legends and all things wonderfully imaginary.

Of course they should, dolls and cowboys and indians and whatever they can come up with. They should be playing games all day, their lives should be full of imagination.
They should not be taught that those imaginary play things are what's available to them to deal with their troubles though. That's what parents and teachers are for.

In the video a teacher says it was helpful for a childhood who was afraid of dinosaurs.
Wouldn't it be much better to tell that child that dinosaurs are extinct? That they're great fun to play games about but that he has no need to fear them or anything else because he has parents and teachers to protect him?

Ipso · 07-09-2017 01:03AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Our closest relatives are found in various parts of Galicia and the Basque country according to genetic studies led by Prof Dan Bradley of Trinity College Dublin’s Smurfit Institute of Genetics. He presented his research over the weekend at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Chicago.
He was joined by Queen’s University Belfast archaeologist and linguist Prof James Mallory who talked about efforts to link these DNA studies with the transmission of languages across western Europe.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/genetic-studies-show-our-closest-relatives-are-found-in-galicia-and-the-basque-region-1.700877

Those studies are out of date.
Ireland and British males mainly fall under the group L21 with Iberia falling under DF27. One of the reason Ireland has high instances is down to a Genghis Khan effect within gaelic chiefdom.
Again this is just a male lineage, across the entire genome Irish people are more closely related to British people.

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 01:05AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Get a grip op, it's not the same thing as teaching about religion at all.

Like anna080 mentioned, not all children of the intended age group would be able to verbalise their anxieties. And like another poster also mentioned,the unfortunate truth is not all children have parents who would take the time to listen to those worries either.

Not to mention that even small children have a right to privacy. They don't have to tell their parents every little worry that crosses their mind. Maybe they have their own reasons for seeking out a neutral ear to share them with, be if the family dog, an imaginary friend or fairy.

Believe it or not, even a small child likes the feeling of fixing a problem for themselves and just talking about a problem or worry can help them to see the solution. It's a very empowering feeling and contrary to what you believe, this in turn makes them more resilient not less. Your parents fixing every tiny issue or patting you on the head for each little insecurity only teaches a child to be reliant on others and not how to cope if they find themselves temporarily alone in something.

Of course I'm not saying a child shouldn't feel safe turning to their parents or shouldn't seek help from adults. Just that it can also be good to have other outlets. I hardly think a worry plaque is going to completely replace the role of a parent or trusted adult. But it's ok to have options.

Well if options is the answer maybe we should firstly have the fairy plaque for younger kids and then later issue them all with a rabbit's foot and a bottle of holy water.

I guess it's true a society gets the education system it deserves and the mental health services it deserves. If some of the posts in this thread are indicative of what we feel we deserve from schools in terms of promoting positive mental health strategies and development then we are seriously sunk.

jimbobaloobob · 07-09-2017 01:07AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

Well if options is the answer maybe we should firstly have the fairy plaque younger kids and then later issue them all with a rabbit's foot and a bottle of holy water.

I guess it's true a society gets the education system it deserves and the mental health services it deserves. If some of the posts in this thread are indicative of what we feel we deserve from schools in terms of promoting positive mental health strategies and development then we are seriously sunk.

Would you become a teacher and change it?

Cheerful Spring · 07-09-2017 01:11AM

Ipso wrote: »

Those studies are out of date.
Ireland and British males mainly fall under the group L21 with Iberia falling under DF27. One of the reason Ireland has high instances is down to a Genghis Khan effect within gaelic chiefdom.
Again this is just a male lineage, across the entire genome Irish people are more closely related to British people.

How can genetic studies be out of date? I don't doubt we share some lineage with British people.

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 01:13AM

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Would you become a teacher and change it?

I actually work in something not completely unrelated to the area of education and mental health, I'd rather not be specific here. I've come to feel very passionately about it though. The statistics bear out that we need much more from our education system in terms of teaching children, who'll later be teens and young adults, to deal positively with their problems. Lives are lost every year because we have young adults unable to reach out to friends, family, services who would listen. I really believe we have to start developing those skills early and encourage children to develop a fluency with expressing emotions to others, to recognise that talking helps.

Ipso · 07-09-2017 01:14AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

How can genetic studies be out of date? I don't doubt we share some lineage with British people.

Advancement in technology, more testing, testing ancient DNA etc
Google R1b-L21, this is the big male lineage found in Ireland and Britain, it and the one found in Iberia are a sub group of R1b-P312. Britain has another group called R1b-U106 in high numbers and this group along with P312 falls under R1b-P311 which seems to have spread from the Pontic Caspian Steppe with the Yamnaya culture.

Academic · 07-09-2017 01:14AM

Noveight wrote: »

You think kids older than 5 believing in Santa is odd..? :eek:

Yep. I'm Scrooge.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 01:19AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

I actually work in something not completely unrelated to the area of education and mental health, I'd rather not be specific here. I've come to feel very passionately about it though. The statistics bear out that we need much more from our education system in terms of teaching children, who'll later be teens and young adults, to deal positively with their problems. Lives are lost every year because we have young adults unable to reach out to friends, family, services who would listen. I really believe we have to start developing those skills early and encourage children to develop a fluency with expressing emotions to others, to recognise that talking helps.

It's also important not to pack too much onto the shoulders of an infant, and expect them to be able to clinically explain their problems and worries.
There are certain pressures and situations that children don't need to analyse. Life is sh|tty enough as you get older. You don't physically/intellectually/emotionally have the skills to express worries as a child. There is a reason we develop these skills as we get older. To expect too much from a little child isn't good for their mental health either. Handing them a fairy and letting them imagine their problems away and believing it is true is a perfectly child appropriate age to deal with stressful situations.

jimbobaloobob · 07-09-2017 01:20AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

I actually work in something not completely unrelated to the area of education and mental health, I'd rather not be specific here. I've come to feel very passionately about it though. The statistics bear out that we need much more from our education system in terms of teaching children, who'll later be teens and young adults, to deal positively with their problems. Lives are lost every year because we have young adults unable to reach out to friends, family, services who would listen. I really believe we have to start developing those skills early and encourage children to develop a fluency with expressing emotions to others, to recognise that talking helps.

That's not a bad concept LightlyGo would you think of developing a pilot programme that maybe becomes part of the Curriculum maybe through SPHE or does something exist along the lines of your thinking in the SPHE curriculum already but its targeted above the ages of the fairy fixers?

Cheerful Spring · 07-09-2017 01:24AM

Ipso wrote: »

Advancement in technology, more testing, testing ancient DNA etc
Google R1b-L21, this is the big male lineage found in Ireland and Britain, it and the one found in Iberia are a sub group of R1b-P312. Britain has another group called R1b-U106 in high numbers and this group along with P312 falls under R1b-P311 which seems to have spread from the Pontic Caspian Steppe with the Yamnaya culture.

R1B is highest in Celtic countries. The Milesians were Celts ( says the church) so they would have had the R1b, they were not a distinct separate race of people. And i believe Irish men with Gaelic surnames match more closely with the basque people. There is going to be changes in genetics depending who you are testing and what is their background.

Ipso · 07-09-2017 01:29AM

I have a gaelic surname and I'm not R1b, I fall under haplogroup I. So by that logic I am not closely related to Basques, despite being Irish.
YDNA haplogroups are a different kettle of fish than entire genome analysis.
R1b is also found in Cameroon.

RoisinClare6 · 07-09-2017 01:39AM

They are kids. They'll be worrying about monsters under their bed not how will they pay the mortgage.

They are at that age of magic and wonder and fairies etc is something you believe in. If they feel like they can tell their fairy then surely that is a good thing? Essentially getting to them to talk about it.

As for the dinosaur example. I used to have terrible dinosaur nightmares. My parents told me they were not around anymore but I was still petrified. It's like a child thinking theirs a monster under the bed, you check tell then there is nothing there..most of the time they are still scared. So if a worry plaque helps so be it.

I understand where you are coming from but they're are small children. The age of magic doesn't last very long so let them cherish it while it's still around.

They won't be going around at 25 still doing the same thing.

Cheerful Spring · 07-09-2017 01:39AM

Ipso wrote: »

I have a gaelic surname and I'm not R1b, I fall under haplogroup I. So by that logic I am not closely related to Basques, despite being Irish.
YDNA haplogroups are a different kettle of fish than entire genome analysis.
R1b is also found in Cameroon.

We kind of stuck if its true, the Milesians came to Ireland thousands of years ago,? It be great if we could take samples of their DNA and check the similarities with the Irish today, but that ain't going to happen.

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 01:49AM

anna080 wrote: »

It's also important not to pack too much onto the shoulders of an infant, and expect them to be able to clinically explain their problems and worries.
There are certain pressures and situations that children don't need to analyse. Life is sh|tty enough as you get older. You don't physically/intellectually/emotionally have the skills to express worries as a child. There is a reason we develop these skills as we get older. To expect too much from a little child isn't good for their mental health either. Handing them a fairy and letting them imagine their problems away and believing it is true is a perfectly child appropriate age to deal with stressful situations.

No one is expecting them to clinically explain anything or treatise on the subject.
Simple example
Child : I'm sad /scared etc
Parent : that's OK, you did the right thing telling me, you can always tell me when you feel bad. What are you scared of?
Child : a monster /dinosaur /school etc
Patent : explains why these things aren't a threat and that they're being protected, suggests that sometimes it's good to play a game or read a nice book when you feel like that and give it a little while to see if it goes away.

Child learns they can speak to someone close to help them and learns strategy for coping liking distract themselves and self soothing with a relaxing activity when stressed . Positive skills useful throughout life.

How is this preferable?
Child :I'm scared
Teacher : tell it to the hunk of plastic and fairies will fix it

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 01:58AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

No one is expecting them to clinically explain anything or treatise on the subject.
Simple example
Child : I'm sad /scared etc
Parent : that's OK, you did the right thing telling me, you can always tell me when you feel bad. What are you scared of?
Child : a monster /dinosaur /school etc
Patent : explains why these things aren't a threat and that they're being protected, suggests that sometimes it's good to play a game or read a nice book when you feel like that and give it a little while to see if it goes away.

Child learns they can speak to someone close to help them and learns strategy for coping liking distract themselves and self soothing with a relaxing activity when stressed . Positive skills useful throughout life.

How is this preferable?
Child :I'm scared
Teacher : tell it to the hunk of plastic and fairies will fix it

Why does it have to be an either or? I'm sure most parents talk to their children like that if the child says they're scared. But it's important to note that not all parents do. Nevertheless, I still don't see the harm in letting a child have some ease in thinking their problems are being handled, even if it is by artificial means. Sometimes when you're a kid the idea that some magical being is taking care of your problems can be more valuable than your mother telling you it's okay mommy is always here. Never underestimate the importance of peace of mind, for a child or an adult.

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 02:00AM

RoisinClare6 wrote: »

They are kids. They'll be worrying about monsters under their bed not how will they pay the mortgage.

They are at that age of magic and wonder and fairies etc is something you believe in. If they feel like they can tell their fairy then surely that is a good thing? Essentially getting to them to talk about it.

As for the dinosaur example. I used to have terrible dinosaur nightmares. My parents told me they were not around anymore but I was still petrified. It's like a child thinking theirs a monster under the bed, you check tell then there is nothing there..most of the time they are still scared. So if a worry plaque helps so be it.

I understand where you are coming from but they're are small children. The age of magic doesn't last very long so let them cherish it while it's still around.

They won't be going around at 25 still doing the same thing.

There's plenty 25 year old relying on crystals and Angel cards and going to psychics and doing Reiki to engage dead spirits to heal and help them.

The idea that everyone just naturally evolves into mentally healthy people who can positively deal with their problems just isn't true, there's plenty statistics to bear that out. Lives are lost because if it. They are skills that need to be taught, skills that we have failed dismally to impart so far.

Also more and more children are suffering from clinical depression and mental health issues like anorexia etc. They're baring the brunt of a whole range of issues from overstressed parents, family breakdown to bullying. Fairies won't help with any of those worries. Positive strategies for self expression might help them find stress relief that would work.

I've no problem with kids having vivid imaginary lives.
I have a problem with them learning at school that a fairy will fix their worries or that's where they can legitimately turn when stressed, particularly when there are other things they could learn that would help long term.

gctest50 · 07-09-2017 02:06AM

RoisinClare6 wrote: »

..........

I used to have terrible dinosaur nightmares. My parents told me they were not around anymore but I was still petrified.

..........

They lied, you were right ( petrified though

)

Birds are dinosaurs more or less ( archaeopteryx thingys )

nice claws for picking things up :

- an eagle could easily take a child :

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 02:08AM

anna080 wrote: »

Why does it have to be an either or? I'm sure most parents talk to their children like that if the child says they're scared. But it's important to note that not all parents do. Nevertheless, I still don't see the harm in letting a child have some ease in thinking their problems are being handled, even if it is by artificial means. Sometimes when you're a kid the idea that some magical being is taking care of your problems can be more valuable than your mother telling you it's okay mommy is always here. Never underestimate the importance of peace of mind, for a child or an adult.

I agree, sometimes that's fine, pretending you can protect them when you're not sure you can is necessary too.

Teaching them in school fairies will handle problems is absolutely not fine.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 02:13AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

I agree, sometimes that's fine, pretending you can protect them when you're not sure you can is necessary too.

Teaching them in school fairies will handle problems is absolutely not fine.

Until a child reaches the age where they develop the capacity for critical thought, I'm happy for them to ease their minds and unload their problems in as innocent a way there is to make them happy.

jimmycrackcorm · 07-09-2017 02:13AM

LightlyGo wrote:

My friend who is a teacher has told me most teachers in her school are using the plaque and finding them brilliant for young kids with anxieties in school who all mostly have a Fairy Door at home and do now believe in fairies anyway.

Somehow I think you're going to be the type of person who tells their kids that there is no such thing as Santa.

gctest50 · 07-09-2017 02:18AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

I agree, sometimes that's fine, pretending you can protect them when you're not sure you can is necessary too.

Teaching them in school fairies will handle problems is absolutely not fine.

it works fine, the lights change color n stuff

be a bit like this too :

http://rubberduckdebugging.com

RoisinClare6 · 07-09-2017 02:18AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

There's plenty 25 year old relying on crystals and Angel cards and going to psychics and doing Reiki to engage dead spirits to heal and help them.

The idea that everyone just naturally evolves into mentally healthy people who can positively deal with their problems just isn't true, there's plenty statistics to bear that out. Lives are lost because if it. They are skills that need to be taught, skills that we have failed dismally to impart so far.

Also more and more children are suffering from clinical depression and mental health issues like anorexia etc. They're baring the brunt of a whole range of issues from overstressed parents, family breakdown to bullying. Fairies won't help with any of those worries. Positive strategies for self expression might help them find stress relief that would work.

I've no problem with kids having vivid imaginary lives.
I have a problem with them learning at school that a fairy will fix their worries or that's where they can legitimately turn when stressed, particularly when there are other things they could learn that would help long term.

I never said that they will naturally evolve to positively deal with it but do you still believe in santa, the easter bunny or tooth fairy? No, I highly doubt it the older you got the more you realised that all things magical weren't real just like fairies. So I doubt it's something that they will forever cling to.

I think you are viewing it as if it's the only thing they have that it's the only support they are being provided with which I highly doubt is the case. It seems to be an extra tool. How do you that these parents are not having a conversation about what the kids might be telling the fairy? Hoe do you know that they are not sitting down and having conversations with their children?

You are assuming that this is all they have. You are assuming that they are being left to their own emotional devices.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 02:19AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

There's plenty 25 year old relying on crystals and Angel cards and going to psychics and doing Reiki to engage dead spirits to heal and help them.

The idea that everyone just naturally evolves into mentally healthy people who can positively deal with their problems just isn't true, there's plenty statistics to bear that out. Lives are lost because if it. They are skills that need to be taught, skills that we have failed dismally to impart so far.

Also more and more children are suffering from clinical depression and mental health issues like anorexia etc. They're baring the brunt of a whole range of issues from overstressed parents, family breakdown to bullying. Fairies won't help with any of those worries. Positive strategies for self expression might help them find stress relief that would work.

I've no problem with kids having vivid imaginary lives.
I have a problem with them learning at school that a fairy will fix their worries or that's where they can legitimately turn when stressed, particularly when there are other things they could learn that would help long term.

Adults being into tarot cards and sh|t has nothing at all to do with this. They are grown people, capable of thinking critically and accessing services. If you are saying that this logic is extended from playing make believe and fairy wishing as a child, I think you're wrong. Make believe is a part of childhood. Children believe in Santa, tooth fairy, Easter bunny. Some children believe in god and grow up to reject religion once they've developed how to think critically and analyse all we have been told. I think you're being overly hysterical. Not every child has an approachable parent. Not every child has the skills to verbalise. Not every child is able to verbalise at all. Not every child has the skills to analyse. Not every child has to open up if they don't want to. For someone who supposedly works in a similar area your attitude is very insular.

FanadMan · 07-09-2017 02:32AM

Kids believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy and imaginary friends. If there is something that lets them get rid of their anxieties, then I'm all for it. I wish I had something like that when I was young - would have made school a hell of a lot nicer for a very nervous and timid child like I was.

Don't worry OP, they'll grow out of the whole lot soon so there'll be one less thing for you to be offended by.

ThisRegard · 07-09-2017 08:32AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

I actually work in something not completely unrelated to the area of education and mental health, I'd rather not be specific here. I've come to feel very passionately about it though. The statistics bear out that we need much more from our education system in terms of teaching children, who'll later be teens and young adults, to deal positively with their problems. Lives are lost every year because we have young adults unable to reach out to friends, family, services who would listen. I really believe we have to start developing those skills early and encourage children to develop a fluency with expressing emotions to others, to recognise that talking helps.

Have you ever seen the primary ciriculum and how it deals with personal issues? I guess not given how you're ranting on about this.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 07-09-2017 08:47AM

LightlyGo wrote: »

In the last few days there's a video on facebook from the Fairy Door Company featuring Irish school principals talking about how great use of the Fairy Worry Plaque is in schools. Over 5000 people have commented in the hope of winning a plaque for their school. Among them I see many of my friends whose kids are in Educate Together schools who purposefully did not want their kids receiving a religious education but are willing to fill their heads with this nonsense.

Here's a video of what a Fairy Worry Plaque is https://youtu.be/1BLxwNlh708

Here's the video of Irish school principals waxing lyrical about how great they are : https://www.facebook.com/TheIrishFairyDoorCompany/videos/670991263103207/

A Worry Plaque is a piece of plastic rubbish a child places their hand on and sends their worries to the fairies to take care of. A light flashes to indicate that the fairies have received your problem and are now taking care of it.
Sound familiar at all ??(...minus the flashing light which a prayer rarely produces!).

My friend who is a teacher has told me most teachers in her school are using the plaque and finding them brilliant for young kids with anxieties in school who all mostly have a Fairy Door at home and do now believe in fairies anyway. I asked a few friends with small kids and they do indeed seem to be big fans of fairy doors and talking to their kids about fairies.

Is it me or is worrying that Irish school principals are advocating use of use such a concept ? And that grown adults are feeding their kids this utter nonsense?
Would we not be so much better off trying to relate to our children in a way they could talk to us and not pieces of plastic or statues or tiny wooden doors? How has this evolution of the fairy even happened in our present culture?
So what do you think boards? If you have kids are you ok with Fairy Plaques?

You obviously don't have children, when you do come back and tell us the same thing.

You are probably also one of those people who would rather children didn't believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny but like I said, you don't have children and clearly have zero understanding of how children's minds work.

Permabear · 07-09-2017 10:39AM

This post has been deleted.

LightlyGo · 07-09-2017 06:21PM

anna080 wrote: »

Not every child has an approachable parent. Not every child has the skills to verbalise. Not every child is able to verbalise at all. Not every child has the skills to analyse. Not every child has to open up if they don't want to. For someone who supposedly works in a similar area your attitude is very insular.

That's precisely why we need to actively teach those skills in school from an early age, so every child can express themselves to the very best of their capabilities. The best educational tool for children with those issues is experience, not learning theory but from practical application when they are anxious or worried. Those moments are opportunities to learn important lessons for life.
Here's a chunk of plastic, tell fairies might be ok for lazy parents at home. It shouldn't be part of formal education.

If you consider being ambitous for us to have evidence based best strategies for long term mental health in our schools "insular" that's your business. I'm not interested in exchanging insults with you. We were just going around in circles anyway so I guess I'll leave it there.

Teaching our children in schools that the fairies will take care of them, wtf?

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