Teaching our children in schools that the fairies will take care of them, wtf?

Irish Guitarist

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I went to a school that had missionaries as teachers and those guys would kick the s--t out of you if got into trouble.

I was joking really. I started school in the early eighties and I think it was just about the time corporal punishment was coming to an end.

My fifth class teacher did once catch me writing on the desk and laid into me by beating my knuckles with a ruler until they bled. That was the one incident of violence I had to endure from a teacher.

Ipso

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Tuatha de Danann is not history but come sfrom irish mythology.
Probably rooted in peoples that migrated here in mid to late bronze age.
"Celts coming to Ireland" is not really history these days either. In the iron age we were influenced through trade, migration and culture by the peoples of northern europe - and that influence left what was afterward referred to as celtic invasion.

Where's Wibbs when you need him.

They came in the bronze age with the bell beaker culture, an offshoot of the yamnaya culture which spread the indo european languages in Europe.

Cheerful Spring

Ipso wrote: »

Yes, but let's not pass the book of invasions of as real events. The tuatha de danann are more or less the celtic gods with the Fomor being the baddies.

Book of Invasions is the christen church view on ancient Ireland. There may be some truth in there somewhere? Unfortunately the ancient people of Ireland did not write anything down, information and stories, got passed on orally over the centuries. I believe the Tuatha de Dannann are likely a real group of people who migrated to Ireland in the past, when they arrived, and who they are exactly too much time has passed to find out.

LightlyGo

dreamers75 wrote: »

These same kids believe in Santa.

Shocked it took 2 pages for the atheist god ****e to come out.

/also an atheist just not one of the dickhead ones.

Are you sure? Usually having to assert the fact yourself isn't the best sign.

I see an enormous hypocrisy between telling your child fairies are real and can alter your reality by touching a piece of plastic and then stamping your foot over them believing in God or angels etc.

It's completely different to Santa. Santa is not an emotional crutch.
Santa doesn't take over the roll a parent should fulfill like dealing with your childs anxieties.

Schools should be teaching your child to verbalize their worries and deal with them constructively not to abandon all their concerns to imaginary beings.

It's by no means an anti God or an anti religion perspective . It's anti vapid fantasy in place of positive and constructive eduction on mental health issues that might serve them all their lives.

Are Am Eye

Ipso wrote: »

They came in the bronze age with the bell beaker culture, an offshoot of the yamnaya culture which spread the indo european languages in Europe.

The Hallstatt culture of north central europe in the Iron Age came to dominate northern european culture. Probably because they were wealthy and the cultural influences spread with trade. It is that culture, art, artifacts etc that are equivalent to Celtic Ireland. Not the bell beaker.

NIMAN

I think it's harmless enough if it gets kids less anxious or worried.

After all, if they are young enough to actually believe it, so what? They'll grow up soon enough and realise it was all BS.

op, why don't you just tell them all Santa doesn't exist too sure

LightlyGo

OU812 wrote: »

"Children know such a lot now. Soon they don't believe. And every time a child says 'I don't believe in fairies', there's a fairy someplace that falls down dead". — Peter Pan

1. It's a great idea to make kids feel more secure in themselves.
2. It's a great business extension.
3. I'd rather they had this influence than religion
4. The principle is a ride.

How does it positively educate on dealing with issues like anxiety that later go on to be fatal for too many young people?
Should that not be the purpose of education? To lay the foundation at an early age for positive mental health in later life and give kids the tools for developing that as soon as we can? To teach them that we don't hope spirits and talismans will protect us from the darker sides of life but that we learn to deal better with those aspects of life?

Maybe it's just parents and teachers happy to abdicate the responsibility of talking to your child about their worries to a chunk of plastic.

Ipso

It's starting to look like the bell beaker people made a massive impact on the isles in the mid bronze age or so. This idea has been around for a while but the iron Age La Tene/Hallstatt idea won out.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10565-The-Beaker-Phenomenon-And-The-Genomic-Transformation-Of-Northwest-Europe-Olalde
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2015/12/ancient-genomes-from-ireland-point-to.html
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/12/ancient-human-genomes-suggest-three.html

LightlyGo

NIMAN wrote: »

I think it's harmless enough if it gets kids less anxious or worried.

After all, if they are young enough to actually believe it, so what? They'll grow up soon enough and realise it was all BS.

op, why don't you just tell them all Santa doesn't exist too sure

They will grow up to learn that, they'll have missed those pivotal early years of dealing with stresses and worries by talking about them and sharing them. It's nothing to do with Santa.
It's ridiculous it's going on in school where kids really do take their cues on how best to deal with life.

Cheerful Spring

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Tuatha de Danann is not history but come sfrom irish mythology.
Probably rooted in peoples that migrated here in mid to late bronze age.
"Celts coming to Ireland" is not really history these days either. In the iron age we were influenced through trade, migration and culture by the peoples of northern europe - and that influence left what was afterward referred to as celtic invasion.

Where's Wibbs when you need him.

It's oral tradition. We know people have been living in Ireland for thousands of years. They had to come from somewhere else, because 11,000 years ago Ireland was covered in thick ice. There was a culture in ancient Greece called the danoi that might be the Tuatha de dannann and they came to this Island by boat? Danoi were also known as the Dananns.

Tom Mann Centuria

LightlyGo wrote: »

Are you sure? Usually having to assert the fact yourself isn't the best sign.

I see an enormous hypocrisy between telling your child fairies are real and can alter your reality by touching a piece of plastic and then stamping your foot over them believing in God or angels etc.

It's completely different to Santa. Santa is not an emotional crutch.
Santa doesn't take over the roll a parent should fulfill like dealing with your childs anxieties.

Schools should be teaching your child to verbalize their worries and deal with them constructively not to abandon all their concerns to imaginary beings.

It's by no means an anti God or an anti religion perspective . It's anti vapid fantasy in place of positive and constructive eduction on mental health issues that might serve them all their lives.

Sort of see what you're saying but I think this is just a commercialisation of a thing kids have always had. Lots of fairy stories have been about, and read in schools for decades, childhood really is increasingly fleeting these days so I think it's harmless and will be replaced by something else in a couple of years.

The other thing, Santa does take over the role a parent should fill, he brings the kids presents, how else would the kids get the ridiculously expensive "must have" toy every year.

Ipso

Or danoi and dannan have the same root word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

Noveight

LightlyGo wrote: »

It's ridiculous it's going on in school where kids really do take their cues on how best to deal with life.

Imagine you'd a 5 year old who started Junior Infants last week and at the parent teacher meeting (in November or February or whenever) their teacher was trotting out lines on giving your child cues about how best to deal with life.

Yeah, you'd be right to tell that teacher to catch a hold of themselves. Young children should have their world filled with fairy tales, legends and all things wonderfully imaginary.

juneg

LightlyGo wrote: »

How does it positively educate on dealing with issues like anxiety that later go on to be fatal for too many young people?
Should that not be the purpose of education? To lay the foundation at an early age for positive mental health in later life and give kids the tools for developing that as soon as we can? To teach them that we don't hope spirits and talismans will protect us from the darker sides of life but that we learn to deal better with those aspects of life?

Maybe it's just parents and teachers happy to abdicate the responsibility of talking to your child about their worries to a chunk of plastic.

You are right in fairness. Kids need to learn resilience and how to deal with anxieties. I completely agree. But they learn that a little later on when things make more sense. Fairy doors and plaques are aimed at the younger children who havent matured enough yet to have the coping skills.

Are Am Eye

Ipso wrote: »

It's starting to look like the bell beaker people made a massive impact on the isles in the mid bronze age or so. This idea has been around for a while but the iron Age La Tene/Hallstatt idea won out.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10565-The-Beaker-Phenomenon-And-The-Genomic-Transformation-Of-Northwest-Europe-Olalde
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2015/12/ancient-genomes-from-ireland-point-to.html
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/12/ancient-human-genomes-suggest-three.html

I agree with you that the bell beaker had a huge and wide ranging influence in Europe.

But that influence isn't what we would call Celtic.

What was originally mistaken as an invasion here that led to the introduction of Celtic language i.e Irish Gaelic, and that distinctive metal work and art etc And is now more correctly known as an integration or movement of ideas, influence and language assisted by some migration, maybe an occasional skirmish.......well that was an Iron Age thing.

Mountainsandh

LightlyGo wrote: »

Are you sure? Usually having to assert the fact yourself isn't the best sign.

I see an enormous hypocrisy between telling your child fairies are real and can alter your reality by touching a piece of plastic and then stamping your foot over them believing in God or angels etc.

It's completely different to Santa. Santa is not an emotional crutch.
Santa doesn't take over the roll a parent should fulfill like dealing with your childs anxieties.

Schools should be teaching your child to verbalize their worries and deal with them constructively not to abandon all their concerns to imaginary beings.

It's by no means an anti God or an anti religion perspective . It's anti vapid fantasy in place of positive and constructive eduction on mental health issues that might serve them all their lives.

You make a good point and I get it OP, but your perspective is skewed as an adult IMO. I think magic is a normal and efficient way for a child's mind to deal with things they cannot yet comprehend. If it's not the fairies it'll be some other magical coping device like a favourite teddy, an invisible friend, ...
I bought a few books for my anxious kids, one came with worry dolls, they got Great use

retro:electro

If it makes even one child think that her problems are being taken care of then I'm all for it. Sometimes it's nice to let kids just be kids, and not expect them to have the intellectual or verbal capacities of an adult and communicate their worries.

Cheerful Spring

Ipso wrote: »

Or danoi and dannan have the same root word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

Homer called them Δαναοί/ Danaoi; or the The Achaeans. Anything possible i don't know what was happening back then, all i know is there was people in Ireland before the Celt culture arrived and very little of anything is known about them. I would say lot artifacts and archaeological remains are likely still buried underneath us. Ireland is perfect setting to hide evidence, the climate is perfect.

Ipso

Yeah, but feck all happened in the Iron Age in Ireland apart from it seems some elite movements from Britain (most likely escaping Romans and Saxons), at the very least there was a male dominated movement in the bronze age across Europe (and the story of Ireland in this era is an extension of what was happening in Europe). Analysis of ancient DNA is showing this.
Have a look through that forum I posted a link of, there's some interesting stuff that came out in the last few years.

retro:electro

LightlyGo wrote: »

They will grow up to learn that, they'll have missed those pivotal early years of dealing with stresses and worries by talking about them and sharing them. It's nothing to do with Santa.
It's ridiculous it's going on in school where kids really do take their cues on how best to deal with life.

Kids shouldn't have any stresses or worries. And if they do they should be the kind that they think the fairies will sort. Plenty of time to verbalise and analyse your stress triggers when you've acquired the skills needed to.

DunnoKidz

Where can I get one of those?

Every little bit helps, even if it's only imaginary.

Picture a kid in a bad living situation, without anyone to talk to.
They can leave their worries on the wall and feel a moment of peace and protection, in a world filled with turmoil.
Brava to moments when they get to feel free enough to just be a kid (even for a moment)... and feel safe.

I bet de-stress increases their learning capacity (like being hungry distracts from learning, their focus is elsewhere).

Academic

I think it's fine for children ages 4-5: no different than Santa Claus.

It begins to seem a bit odd to me if they're much older than that. (Similarly for Santa.)

Tom Mann Centuria

DunnoKidz wrote: »

Where can I get one of those?

Every little bit helps, even if it's only imaginary.

Picture a kid in a bad living situation, without anyone to talk to.
They can leave their worries on the wall and feel a moment of peace and protection, in a world filled with turmoil.
Brava to moments when they get to feel free enough to just be a kid (even for a moment)... and feel safe.

I bet de-stress increases their learning capacity (like being hungry distracts from learning, their focus is elsewhere).

Heatons, dare say the pound shops will be knocking them out soon

Noveight

Academic wrote: »

I think it's fine for children ages 4-5: no different than Santa Claus.

It begins to seem a bit odd to me if they're much older than that. (Similarly for Santa.)

You think kids older than 5 believing in Santa is odd..? :eek:

LightlyGo

anna080 wrote: »

If it makes even one child think that her problems are being taken care of then I'm all for it. Sometimes it's nice to let kids just be kids, and not expect them to have the intellectual or verbal capacities of an adult and communicate their worries.

What about if one kid learned that you could tell a parent or teacher if you were stressed and they could talk to you and comfort you, and you developed that skill of reaching out for help when you need it because that's what you'd always done.
Then if that kid has that skill as a teen wouldn't it be much more positive than them feeling quietly suicidal or that it's shameful to be overburdened, something children rely on imaginary beings for?

The truth is that while most people grow out of this magical thinking there are sadly a minority who don't, who are using angel cards and psychics and crystals to attract what they need in life etc. Why on earth would we chose to teach our children such ways of dealing with problems when we could be teaching them powerful tools that could save their lives later on?

Are Am Eye

Ipso wrote: »

Yeah, but feck all happened in the Iron Age in Ireland

Celtic culture and language came to Ireland in the Iron Age.

Not when you said it did.

Cheerful Spring

Are Am Eye wrote: »

I agree with you that the bell beaker had a huge and wide ranging influence in Europe.

But that influence isn't what we would call Celtic.

What was originally mistaken as an invasion here that led to the introduction of Celtic language i.e Irish Gaelic, and that distinctive metal work and art etc And is now more correctly known as an integration or movement of ideas, influence and language assisted by some migration, maybe an occasional skirmish.......well that was an Iron Age thing.

In the Book of Invasions. The Christen church claims the last Invasion involved a group called the Milesians ( they came from Spain) and they later came known as the Gaels ( modern Irish) This is were it gets weird ( according to the church) the Milesians drove the Tuath de Dannan away as they were so few of them and they left the Earth and went underground forever. Leprechaun and fairy legends all stem from this event.

Strange thing about this book is from the 11th century and strangely enough the Irish are genetically similar to people from the Basque region of Spain. This is modern science hundred years later confirming this, but this book was telling us in 11th century the modern Irish came to Ireland from Spain.

jimbobaloobob

Puppets are used by teachers a lot to teach many subjects at primary level. Children are great at engaging with it and learning. Not much different to the fairies and sure what harm.

Ipso

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

In the Book of Invasions. The Christen church claims the last Invasion involved a group called the Milesians ( they came from Spain) and they later came known as the Gaels ( modern Irish) This is were it gets weird ( according to the church) the Milesians drove the Tuath de Dannan away as they were so few of them and they left the Earth and went underground forever. Leprechaun and fairy legends all stem from this event.

Strange thing about this book is from the 11th century and strangely enough the Irish are genetically similar to people from the Basque region Spain. This is modern science hundred years later confirming this, but this book was telling us in 11th century the modern Irish came to Ireland from Spain.

They just have high instances of the same male haplogroup (it just tracks a direct male lineage), Basques and Irish fall under different sub groups of R1b-P312 with Irish and British in the same subgroup. On an entire genome level Irish people are closest to British people.

Cheerful Spring

Ipso wrote: »

They just have high instances of the same male haplogroup (it just tracks a direct male lineage), on an entire genome level Irish people are closest to British people.

Our closest relatives are found in various parts of Galicia and the Basque country according to genetic studies led by Prof Dan Bradley of Trinity College Dublin’s Smurfit Institute of Genetics. He presented his research over the weekend at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Chicago.
He was joined by Queen’s University Belfast archaeologist and linguist Prof James Mallory who talked about efforts to link these DNA studies with the transmission of languages across western Europe.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/genetic-studies-show-our-closest-relatives-are-found-in-galicia-and-the-basque-region-1.700877