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Maximizing the current Rail Infrastructure
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LuckyLloyd wrote: »It is surely in the national interest to have greatly expanded rail freight volumes. From an environmental perspective it is certainly preferable.
absolutely, and many other reasons along with that.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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LuckyLloyd wrote: »It is surely in the national interest to have greatly expanded rail freight volumes. From an environmental perspective it is certainly preferable.
Total freight volumes in Ireland is the lowest in the EU, with an historical lack of heavy industry the freight loads are domestic goods that are multi-destination as opposed to bulk freight. Distance too are small, making the transfer cost from one mode to another high and uneconomical. Trucks can reach most destinations from the port in 3/4 hours, with no major city beyond that.
The future for rail freight relies, as mentioned above, on niche markets - drinks distributors/extraction/whatever else is bulk. If we want to ensure Ireland stays competitive in freight haulage and reduces carbon output, the future is in fuel efficient HGVs.
Source: http://www.epa.ie/pubs/reports/research/climate/CCRP%20Report%20Series%20No.%207%20-%20Barriers%20to%20Sustainable%20Transport%20in%20Ireland.pdf0 -
All you are doing there is adding cost via having to transfer freight between various modes of transport. Freight coming in through our ports is not bulk for one destination, it's smaller items going to various destinations throughout the country.
In the current model, if a container load needs to go to Listowel in Kerry for instance then they ship via Dublin, change to a lorry and pop down the M7. In your model the same container would have to change from ship to train, train to train in Limerick Jct, and finally train to lorry in Limerick for onward delivery. And just think of the additional manpower needed for such movements. It just could not compete given the lower cost of truck transport - and reliability over rail, if your haulage operator goes on strike you get another one, if the road is blocked you get delayed but can go around.
Freight will sustain on Irish railways via niche markets, such as what happens in Mayo. But that's it unfortunately. And intercity motorway network makes its much quicker and cheaper to go via road - given how small Ireland is too. Hence why IR freight fell away once the roads go better.
In my model the container would travel from Waterford to Limerick on one train. Im not talking about bulk loads its the opposite in fact. Basically IE sell the space on the train already making the journey. Im not saying it will be profitable in its first weeks or months but developing such services is a start.
Sorry i thought you said the ship was in Waterford.0 -
No... the idea proposed was that Limerick Junction would become a freight hub thus needing transfer from a Dub-Cork train to one that serves Limerick - or Tralee, or Waterford, or Galway, etc. Each transfer requires manpower and time. In effect though, even one extra transfer is enough to make it uneconomical given the relatively short distances in Ireland and now extensive motorway network. It simply does not make sense to load a train with containers in Dublin, only to unload them in Limerick Junction two hours later to a truck when you can save yourself that extra transfer cost - and time involved.
The 'road ripping' by trucks mostly affects our smaller roads, something train transit won't solve as it is only replacing the motorway section - vast majority of cargo still requires a truck to get to its eventual destination.
And in regards fuel costs - trains use diesel, as far as I recall. Rising fuel prices will affect rail and road.
The customer isn't looking at what it costs IE to do it. Its about IE been able to transport the containers for same price or less as it would cost going by road. The bulk of tranfers in Limerick Jct wouldn't require lifting containers. Some pre planning would place containers that need to transfered at either end of a train and simply uncouple from the last one traveling onwards with the train. Attach any extras that need to coupled and off you go. Other than a few forklifts and little extra training and manpower there is very little cost to set it up.
Bulk full train loads can go direct using current system of chartering the train for use.0 -
Total freight volumes in Ireland is the lowest in the EU, with an historical lack of heavy industry the freight loads are domestic goods that are multi-destination as opposed to bulk freight. Distance too are small, making the transfer cost from one mode to another high and uneconomical. Trucks can reach most destinations from the port in 3/4 hours, with no major city beyond that.
The future for rail freight relies, as mentioned above, on niche markets - drinks distributors/extraction/whatever else is bulk. If we want to ensure Ireland stays competitive in freight haulage and reduces carbon output, the future is in fuel efficient HGVs.
Source: http://www.epa.ie/pubs/reports/research/climate/CCRP%20Report%20Series%20No.%207%20-%20Barriers%20to%20Sustainable%20Transport%20in%20Ireland.pdf
Its not all about distance and efficiency. Cost is going to play a big part in future road haulage. Are haulage companies going to pass fuel savings onto customers? I doubt they will as the savings will only cover other increases such as price increases in fuel and carbon taxes ECT.
Its companies looking to transport 3 or 4 containers a week IE need to chase rather than a random shipment every few weeks or a full train load a day. Its a small profit of each customer that will make a big profit off each train load.0 -
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Its not all about distance and efficiency. Cost is going to play a big part in future road haulage. Are haulage companies going to pass fuel savings onto customers? I doubt they will as the savings will only cover other increases such as price increases in fuel and carbon taxes ECT.
Its companies looking to transport 3 or 4 containers a week IE need to chase rather than a random shipment every few weeks or a full train load a day. Its a small profit of each customer that will make a big profit off each train load.
I can't see IE ever going back to offering less than trainload services.. they tried it, it didn't work for them.. better off sticking to what they do best which is operating trains and leaving companies like IWT and DFDS to worry about filling the trains.. you need to be a freight forwarder or similar to fully understand what customers with meaningful volumes of containerised freight want.. this is the future of container freight in Ireland, and containers are likely to form a large part of any growth in rail freight..
A lot of people posting on these threads who don't seem to know too well what they're talking about..0 -
IE have successfully pared down their freight business to a steady and unimposing earner. At the same time they have disposed of yards in North Esk and the like. Any reinstatement is likely to be similar to Ballina's barebones facility.
A few points:- Where is the freight in Cork being produced (i.e. how close to a plausible railhead) and where is it going?
- Why is Limerick Junction a logical hub when it is a good distance from the M7 and M8?
- Development pressure may move some Dublin Port activities out of North Wall, so IE would be wise to be cagey about what to commit to
About 1/3 of the current volume carried on the DFDS liner originates in Cork about 5 mins from North Esk, it's the cost of reinstating a suitable depot and getting someone to pay that is the big problem..
Also volumes between Southern Ireland and Scotland are quite low in volume compared to the English market and the was majority of this market is carried by driver accompanied road freight as this is the market norm0 -
In my model the container would travel from Waterford to Limerick on one train. Im not talking about bulk loads its the opposite in fact. Basically IE sell the space on the train already making the journey. Im not saying it will be profitable in its first weeks or months but developing such services is a start.
Sorry i thought you said the ship was in Waterford.
The idea of using more than one train in Ireland is unfortunately unrealistic.. cost and transit wise it would make rail less attractive than road options and the volumes and distances involved are much too small.. direct trains from Dublin port to Ballina, Castlebar, Limerick and Waterford is the most ambitious scenario I could reasonably see happening for the next 10 years..
Waterford has a port but it's quite small and besides the containers sent by rail it mainly serves local business to and from Europe only.. it doesn't have deep sea services like Dublin, Cork or Belfast0 -
andrewfaulk wrote: »I can't see IE ever going back to offering less than trainload services.. they tried it, it didn't work for them.. better off sticking to what they do best which is operating trains and leaving companies like IWT and DFDS to worry about filling the trains.. you need to be a freight forwarder or similar to fully understand what customers with meaningful volumes of containerised freight want.. this is the future of container freight in Ireland, and containers are likely to form a large part of any growth in rail freight..
A lot of people posting on these threads who don't seem to know too well what they're talking about..
It did work for them in the past bit for various reasons the business fell apart. Obviously full loads or chartering trains is the prefered way but there is not much risk in exploring other options. Haulage is going change over the coming years and its in IE hands if they want to get involved in the industry more.
Im not suggesting running trains from Dublin to every city with 10 or less containers loaded. Its start small and build it up.0 -
I'm confused by this post as it doesn't seem to acknowledge the existing Belview container flows.andrewfaulk wrote: »The idea of using more than one train in Ireland is unfortunately unrealistic.. cost and transit wise it would make rail less attractive than road options and the volumes and distances involved are much too small.. direct trains from Dublin port to Ballina, Castlebar, Limerick and Waterford is the most ambitious scenario I could reasonably see happening for the next 10 years..
Waterford has a port but it's quite small and besides the containers sent by rail it mainly serves local business to and from Europe only.. it doesn't have deep sea services like Dublin, Cork or Belfast0 -
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andrewfaulk wrote: »The idea of using more than one train in Ireland is unfortunately unrealistic.. cost and transit wise it would make rail less attractive than road options and the volumes and distances involved are much too small.. direct trains from Dublin port to Ballina, Castlebar, Limerick and Waterford is the most ambitious scenario I could reasonably see happening for the next 10 years..
Waterford has a port but it's quite small and besides the containers sent by rail it mainly serves local business to and from Europe only.. it doesn't have deep sea services like Dublin, Cork or Belfast
Its 2 trains meeting in 1 location having the option of transferring loads from one to the other, like an airline hub, by means of uncoupling a number of wagons and attaching them onto the other train, no lifting required. If its successful add more trains or open up a direct point to point service.
There is already a number of trains running between Waterford and Ballina a simple detour and extension on train lengths would provide the foundations to build on.0 -
It did work for them in the past bit for various reasons the business fell apart. Obviously full loads or chartering trains is the prefered way but there is not much risk in exploring other options. Haulage is going change over the coming years and its in IE hands if they want to get involved in the industry more.
Im not suggesting running trains from Dublin to every city with 10 or less containers loaded. Its start small and build it up.
But the risk of exploring other options is high enough to act as a deterrent to I.E. to try something new..
A new container flow would require at the very least the hire of a reachstacker and the creation of a suitable loading/unloading area at the destination.. that's before you move one container.. I.E. don't have any business to get the service started either so until you could build up the service the losses would be colossal0 -
I'm confused by this post as it doesn't seem to acknowledge the existing Belview container flows.
Apologies I might not have been the clearest.. waterford(bel view) port is quite small when it comes to container traffic.. with the exception of the volumes carried by rail to Ballina, its business is focused on waterford and south Tipperary area.. and that's only for infra-European business to and from Rotterdam..0 -
Its 2 trains meeting in 1 location having the option of transferring loads from one to the other, like an airline hub, by means of uncoupling a number of wagons and attaching them onto the other train, no lifting required. If its successful add more trains or open up a direct point to point service.
There is already a number of trains running between Waterford and Ballina a simple detour and extension on train lengths would provide the foundations to build on.
Both the IWT and DFDS services operate in synch with the vessel schedules.. adding transit time to this would mean they would no longer serve their intended purpose of moving cargo from NW Ireland to a port for onward shipment.. If IE tried to implement this they would drive away even their existing business0 -
Even three tracks is inadequate, four is essential.
It won't come cheap, but the longer the government waits to take action, the more difficult and costly it will become.
In the last couple of decades, Dublin City Council and Fingal Co Council have allowed development up to the track at Malahide, Portmarnock and Kilbarrack, the latter including houses built by the council.
The planning was disgraceful to be sure. However, there are opportunities for replacing cuttings with retaining walls, there are some gardens, golf courses etc along the line and even where property is removed suitable support from the City Council would allow its replacement with denser development (near stations especially) which might mean that the net cost was zero. A plan is needed for this, for instance by buying properties in the area a little away from the railway so that people being CPOed can be given the opportunity to just move across the street, if they wish. This is one of those things that need to be done eventually and they should just get cracking on it.0 -
andrewfaulk wrote: »But the risk of exploring other options is high enough to act as a deterrent to I.E. to try something new..
A new container flow would require at the very least the hire of a reachstacker and the creation of a suitable loading/unloading area at the destination.. that's before you move one container.. I.E. don't have any business to get the service started either so until you could build up the service the losses would be colossal
I fail to see the colossal risk in providing an extra train and rerouting a second when required at the begining of setting it up. If its not needed don't run it. If its a fails pull the plug but give it a chance to develop. It wont happen overnight or on its own. It will need support from IE and customers. Most companies have a keen interest in cutting emissions these days as they know its only going to cost them in the future.
Im not suggesting running empty trains until customers come along. A few reachstackers are hardly going to brake the bank. Use current sidings and create new access to ones previoualy cut off. As mentioned gone are the days of needing large yards and high rise cranes. Simple sidings with 2 - 3 lines paved over will do and would also cater for any expansion up 2 - 3 trains a day if it was to develop. I did say an investment would be needed but where not talking 10s of millions here.0 -
andrewfaulk wrote: »Both the IWT and DFDS services operate in synch with the vessel schedules.. adding transit time to this would mean they would no longer serve their intended purpose of moving cargo from NW Ireland to a port for onward shipment.. If IE tried to implement this they would drive away even their existing business
IWT would run as normal as its a full point to point train you cant add much more to it. DFDS train just needs to depart an hour or two earlier no major problems here. If it a case were thats been effected well look at introducing a new flow. If new business begins to effect DFDS timings well then there must be a case of expansion.0 -
Its companies looking to transport 3 or 4 containers a week IE need to chase rather than a random shipment every few weeks or a full train load a day. Its a small profit of each customer that will make a big profit off each train load.
Irish Rail tried this and it didn't work, hence why they only charter whole trains to the haulage operators and let them fill the train - or not as the case may be. The time & manpower required in changing transport modes does not make it worth it. IR would always be undercut by road hauliers.Its 2 trains meeting in 1 location having the option of transferring loads from one to the other, like an airline hub, by means of uncoupling a number of wagons and attaching them onto the other train, no lifting required. If its successful add more trains or open up a direct point to point service.
Again, all you are doing is adding time & cost in terms of the transfer. The time it would take to uncouple wagons, transfer to a rail head, unload, sort out... it would be there twice as fast by sending down the motorway. Each unit of cargo will end up on a truck anyway as few companies are located near these 'hubs'. It simply would not be economical for small units of cargo to be transported this way unless the rail distance was longer - Ireland is just too small.It will need support from IE and customers. Most companies have a keen interest in cutting emissions these days as they know its only going to cost them in the future.
Haulage and the wider business community companies don't give a toss about emissions - only their bottom line. Despite what their PR Departments would like to tell us. Making our HGV's more fuel efficient, along with encouraging whatever bulk cargo there is in Ireland to use rail, is the way to go. The days of sending small / multi-destination cargo by rail finished when the M7/M8/M4 opened.
Above is just mainly the time aspect. Other considerations such as manpower costs - workers would be required to drive trains, sort the cargo, uncouple trains. That all costs, especially since rail workers are largely unionised and are paid more than those employed by road hauliers. Along a similar line is strikes & rail stoppages. If the rail workers go on strike you are goosed, can't exactly hire someone else to operate your train.0 -
Irish Rail tried this and it didn't work, hence why they only charter whole trains to the haulage operators and let them fill the train - or not as the case may be. The time & manpower required in changing transport modes does not make it worth it. IR would always be undercut by road hauliers.
not once the eventual realisation comes in to government that the road hauliers will have to pay the full infrastructure costs and the carbon fines start coming in . fuel efficient hgvs won't really cut it long term, there will have to be an encouragement of alternatives as well.Again, all you are doing is adding time & cost in terms of the transfer. The time it would take to uncouple wagons, transfer to a rail head, unload, sort out... it would be there twice as fast by sending down the motorway.
you are over complicating it. ultimately his plan is for a number of customers to buy space on a point to point train. the coupling of wagons can be done quite easily now days. ultimately it probably wouldn't really be necessaryEach unit of cargo will end up on a truck anyway as few companies are located near these 'hubs'. It simply would not be economical for small units of cargo to be transported this way unless the rail distance was longer - Ireland is just too small.
it's not no . it can be perfectly economical if there are others wanting to use the service. the only problem it would cause is the outrage from a certain pampered road group.Haulage and the wider business community companies don't give a toss about emissions - only their bottom line. Despite what their PR Departments would like to tell us. Making our HGV's more fuel efficient, along with encouraging whatever bulk cargo there is in Ireland to use rail, is the way to go.
fuel efficient hgvs won't be enough. they will still cause pollution problems, hence their number needs to be cut. it will also allow our road budget to go a lot further.The days of sending small / multi-destination cargo by rail finished when the M7/M8/M4 opened.
small cargo is fine as long as there are others going to the same place on the train.Above is just mainly the time aspect. Other considerations such as manpower costs - workers would be required to drive trains, sort the cargo, uncouple trains. That all costs, especially since rail workers are largely unionised and are paid more than those employed by road hauliers. Along a similar line is strikes & rail stoppages. If the rail workers go on strike you are goosed, can't exactly hire someone else to operate your train.
a set up like in mayo has the bare basics and i believe it costs little over all. so again i reccan you are over-complicating things as some tend to do when it comes to rail freight. as for the rail strike issue, they happen only an odd time, and with better management they should actually hardly ever happen as the issues would be sorted before they get to a strike situation.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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end of the road wrote: »not once the eventual realisation comes in to government that the road hauliers will have to pay the full infrastructure costs and the carbon fines start coming in . fuel efficient hgvs won't really cut it long term, there will have to be an encouragement of alternatives as well.
Can you please elaborate as to this ultimatum? So the Govt is going to force folks to use trains to transport goods?, how will these goods get to their eventual destinations?, especially multi-destination deliveries.
Modern technology & advancement is not going to suddenly reverse. Fuel efficient HGV's will make a significant difference - including a switch a electric trucks once battery technology advances.
10'000 trucks use Dublin Port daily, a train load (if you can even fill a train, which IR was unable to do when it pulled out from the market) would take about 40 - a drop in the ocean.end of the road wrote: »you are over complicating it. ultimately his plan is for a number of customers to buy space on a point to point train. the coupling of wagons can be done quite easily now days. ultimately it probably wouldn't really be necessary
it's not no . it can be perfectly economical if there are others wanting to use the service. the only problem it would cause is the outrage from a certain pampered road group.
It is uneconomical!, hence why IR pulled out from this market. I'm laying down the scenario as it would have to happen, if anything I'm simplifying the steps needed. Much cheaper & quicker to send your cargo on a truck to the destination instead of putting onto a train only to take it off again a few hours later. If Ireland had longer distances for the train portion this would work (as it does throughout Europe), but the reality is that we do not, we're a small island with a now comprehensive motorway network.
Also, can you please explain who this 'certain pampered road group' are?
99% of freight within Ireland is transported via road, our exports tend to be small in volume but high value (pharma, electrical, etc), transport via single trailer & driver makes sense as it means less time in transferring from truck>train>ferry>train>truck etc.end of the road wrote: »a set up like in mayo has the bare basics and i believe it costs little over all. so again i reccan you are over-complicating things as some tend to do when it comes to rail freight. as for the rail strike issue, they happen only an odd time, and with better management they should actually hardly ever happen as the issues would be sorted before they get to a strike situation.
Mayo works because you have a private operator handling the filling of the train and bearing the cost if it is not full, also the unique distance Waterford/Mayo makes it work. It is not something that could be replicated where there is a motorway alternative offering a cheaper option. Plus there is no transferring at 'hubs' required.
And finally, in regards strikes... what happened the Gypsum freight services from Kingscourt> (circa 2001)0 -
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With development pressure likely to keep increasing in Dublin, the old proposals to move some or all activity out of Dublin Port are resurfacing:
2006: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-backs-plan-to-move-dublin-port-1.798220
2017: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/08/20/move-dublin-port-and-create-new-city-on-the-water
Obviously not all flows might move, but if bulk shipping moved to Balbriggan for example you could have Tara Mines flows not only shortened in distance and in impact on inner Dublin's rail schedule, but it could be built to accommodate 201s with the possibility of longer trains and fewer weekly movements.0 -
With development pressure likely to keep increasing in Dublin, the old proposals to move some or all activity out of Dublin Port are resurfacing:
2006: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-backs-plan-to-move-dublin-port-1.798220
2017: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/08/20/move-dublin-port-and-create-new-city-on-the-water
Obviously not all flows might move, but if bulk shipping moved to Balbriggan for example you could have Tara Mines flows not only shortened in distance and in impact on inner Dublin's rail schedule, but it could be built to accommodate 201s with the possibility of longer trains and fewer weekly movements.
Only problem is, on this one McWilliams is dead wrong..
Much better reading:
http://www.dublinport.ie/news/selling-dublin-port-river-waste-expansion-key-future-success/0 -
Irish Rail tried this and it didn't work, hence why they only charter whole trains to the haulage operators and let them fill the train - or not as the case may be. The time & manpower required in changing transport modes does not make it worth it. IR would always be undercut by road hauliers.
Again, all you are doing is adding time & cost in terms of the transfer. The time it would take to uncouple wagons, transfer to a rail head, unload, sort out... it would be there twice as fast by sending down the motorway. Each unit of cargo will end up on a truck anyway as few companies are located near these 'hubs'. It simply would not be economical for small units of cargo to be transported this way unless the rail distance was longer - Ireland is just too small.
Haulage and the wider business community companies don't give a toss about emissions - only their bottom line. Despite what their PR Departments would like to tell us. Making our HGV's more fuel efficient, along with encouraging whatever bulk cargo there is in Ireland to use rail, is the way to go. The days of sending small / multi-destination cargo by rail finished when the M7/M8/M4 opened.
Above is just mainly the time aspect. Other considerations such as manpower costs - workers would be required to drive trains, sort the cargo, uncouple trains. That all costs, especially since rail workers are largely unionised and are paid more than those employed by road hauliers. Along a similar line is strikes & rail stoppages. If the rail workers go on strike you are goosed, can't exactly hire someone else to operate your train.
Not sure why your so obsessed with loading unloading and manpower requirements. The container is taking of a ship and put onto a train. The delivery end is just the same with exception of swapping the ship to a trailer. IE can compete once they get volume. A hualier only needs one customer to compete. Once IE secure enough customers cover their operating cost they can begin dropping prices. Thats why im suggesting for example adding to and if required redirect flows currently running between Waterford - Ballina. The cost of running the train is already been covered.
Your not getting the point of a transfer hub. If say 5 wagons from Waterford are going for onward delivery to Cork then place them 5 wagons at the end of train. On arrival in Limerick Jct simply uncouple the last 5 and off you go. The train travelling to cork will collect when passing. It only requires 1 station staff member to do this. I dont see where the major cost is.
If they didn't give a toss why are fuel saving trucks becoming available. A lot of large hualage companies use rail as much as possible.0 -
With development pressure likely to keep increasing in Dublin, the old proposals to move some or all activity out of Dublin Port are resurfacing:
2006: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-backs-plan-to-move-dublin-port-1.798220
2017: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/08/20/move-dublin-port-and-create-new-city-on-the-water
Obviously not all flows might move, but if bulk shipping moved to Balbriggan for example you could have Tara Mines flows not only shortened in distance and in impact on inner Dublin's rail schedule, but it could be built to accommodate 201s with the possibility of longer trains and fewer weekly movements.
I really can't see any new port been built to replace Dublin port. Its too large scale and would have massive costs. The port is growing rapidity the last number of years. I think the environmental damage of an area alone will knock this on the head. Maybe the south docks could be sold of as very little of that is actually used by Dublin port.
Not sure what mean by accommodating 201s there is no restrictions of them working in Dublin port.0 -
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A lot of large hualage companies use rail as much as possible.
In large countries with developed rail networks
This is a small island with an extensive motorway network; with a Victorian rail network much of which was built on the cheap and most of which is single track.
We already have about as much rail freight as we can expect to get. The unions - well, one union - killed off the established base inertia for many customers where road transport may have been cheaper but the change over costs were too high. Those customers are never coming back.
The future for rail freight in Ireland is third party access, not Irish Rail operated trains. If someone was willing to take the risk and get a number of, say, Vossolh *lights built for 1600mm and wet-lease* them to freight operators I think there'd be more people doing it - but there will never be a market for Irish Rail to run a part-load service ever again.
*with drivers0 -
In large countries with developed rail networks
This is a small island with an extensive motorway network; with a Victorian rail network much of which was built on the cheap and most of which is single track.
We already have about as much rail freight as we can expect to get. The unions - well, one union - killed off the established base inertia for many customers where road transport may have been cheaper but the change over costs were too high. Those customers are never coming back.
The future for rail freight in Ireland is third party access, not Irish Rail operated trains. If someone was willing to take the risk and get a number of, say, Vossolh *lights built for 1600mm and wet-lease* them to freight operators I think there'd be more people doing it - but there will never be a market for Irish Rail to run a part-load service ever again.
*with drivers
A: We don't have that extensive a motorway network - try getting to Donegal from Dublin or Cork to Limerick
B: most developed countries use both Road and Rail, they complement each other0 -
If someone was willing to take the risk and get a number of, say, Vossolh *lights built for 1600mm and wet-lease* them to freight operators I think there'd be more people doing it
i believe they are about 21t per axel so would likely be to heavy for the tracks. i presume you are referring to the euro-light?ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,861 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 64834
A: We don't have that extensive a motorway network - try getting to Donegal from Dublin or Cork to Limerick
B: most developed countries use both Road and Rail, they complement each other
There is bog all freight that needs to go from Donegal to anywhere. Our motorway network extensively covers everywhere there is a freight source, except Mayo - where the rail network already captures the demand.
When, precisely, did the last standard gauge freight train run in Donegal anyway?
Most developed countries are a lot larger.end of the road wrote: »i believe they are about 21t per axel so would likely be to heavy for the tracks. i presume you are referring to the euro-light?
The class of locos they are from, yes - which are realistically the only ones likely to be available in small numbers in 1600mm; as they are on a platform designed to be gauge independent and already exist on 1435mm and 1668mm so 1600mm would not be implausible. Other manufacturers which are willing to look at 1600mm will want a big order.
They are specifically designed to be below 20t axle weight so I doubt they're coming at 21t. 20t I believe is the 201 axle weight which most of the network is now cleared for.0 -
Not sure why your so obsessed with loading unloading and manpower requirements.
Do you know who actually obsesses over loading & manpower costs? Freight operators. They operate with incredibly tight margins, the extra costs involved in transferring your loads to a train, changing trains, then unloading to a truck to get to the final destination... just not economical when the train distance is small & a competing motorway would get the goods to the destination as quick.Your not getting the point of a transfer hub. If say 5 wagons from Waterford are going for onward delivery to Cork then place them 5 wagons at the end of train. On arrival in Limerick Jct simply uncouple the last 5 and off you go. The train travelling to cork will collect when passing. It only requires 1 station staff member to do this. I dont see where the major cost is.
At the same time your train reaches Limerick Junction and has to wait for the Dublin/Cork train (if that even runs) the competitor has already delivered their load (or most of it given it likely is multi-desalinational). When your train reaches Cork it then has to be loaded onto trucks for onward delivery.If they didn't give a toss why are fuel saving trucks becoming available. A lot of large hualage companies use rail as much as possible.
Greater volume of goods being sent, more bulk, longer distances, etc. Compare population of southern England to Ireland. In fact, ask yourself, why have no private freight operator started a Cork/Dublin or Limerick/Dublin service like the Mayo/Waterford?B: most developed countries use both Road and Rail, they complement each other
Of course. Are many of these countries island nations of similar size to Ireland with a comparable population density & low bulk manufacturing output? Please do tell.0 -
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With development pressure likely to keep increasing in Dublin, the old proposals to move some or all activity out of Dublin Port are resurfacing:
2006: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-backs-plan-to-move-dublin-port-1.798220
2017: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/08/20/move-dublin-port-and-create-new-city-on-the-water
if bulk shipping moved to Balbriggan for example you could have Tara Mines flows not only shortened in distance.
Tara Mines will be finished long before any new port is built at Bremore / Balbriggan.
If Tara Mines wanted a shorter rail journey in the beginning, they would have used the Boyne Road (old cement factory) branch and shipped the ore out of Drogheda port.0
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