Kids on Flights

Grayson · 01-09-2017 05:46PM

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Kids will be kids and they will make noise and annoy grumpy old feckers like me and that's perfectly fine. But if your kid is bored out of its skull because you didn't bring any toys/books/whatever and then starts kicking the seat in front of it or pulling my hair and you're not bothered to do anything about it, that's a problem.

I'd hate it more if it was an adult causing disruption. Kids can't help it a lot of the time. Adults can.

My most unpleasant experience on a train was being stuck going from Cork to Dublin with a stag party.

ceadaoin. · 01-09-2017 05:47PM

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Some people are clearly looking to be offended by children on sight. I was on a short flight with my daughter when she was about 4. About 30 minutes in the woman in front of her turned around and told me to stop my daughter kicking her seat. She went blood red when I pointed out that my daughter was a actually fast asleep. She was the type who obviously couldn't wait for her opportunity to give give out about a child. People are weird.

I had similar on a short flight to the uk. The woman in front turned around tutting and giving a dirty look through the gap in the seats whenever my daughter spoke. Just like normal talking not shouting or screaming or anything like that. She obviously had issues

5rtytry56 · 01-09-2017 07:02PM

Sleepy wrote: »

(soothers, teddies, bottles, calpol, tablets with favourite cartoons etc. when they were really young, lollipops and video games as they've gotten older).

.

for little boys bring a little matchbox car or two (buy a new packaged one for him, and then, let him open the box during the flight - the novelty of it all in a toddlers mindset. Even if they can't roll it very far.

Steven81 · 01-09-2017 08:56PM

We have brought our autistic child away for the last 3 years, the first year we didnt even know if she would board the plane but she did and sat through the 3 hour flight like an angel. We had a DVD player with her favourite programmes on. Every year she has been away she is so happy and everyone sees an improvement on our arrival. The only issue i had was that she wouldnt leave the beach and i had to carry her home kicking and screaming. Did everyone look at me and stare yes but everyone that has an autistic child will understand a situation like this and been like this before.

As for the OP yes the flight may have been a nightmare but the week away might have been really good for both child, parents and the siblings.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 01-09-2017 09:15PM

There's no doubt about it people look for things to be offended about when it comes to kids, especially autistic kids. I have 2 little cousins on the spectrum. Both non verbal but Ines much worse than the other. We were at a family wedding and in the church she started to scream. Her dad picked her up and left, and returned when she calmed down but she was still making noise (her way of communicating) albeit not loud or scary. She was the brides niece so most people at the wedding knew she wasn't bold. We were leaving and an aul one grabbed my arm and said to me "there's no rearing on that child at all". I said it straight out there's plenty of rearing on her she's just non verbal and has autism. I turned my back to her and walked away.

I'll be the first to admit I'll lose my **** and get stressed out listening to a huge meltdown and I won't feel bad for it. Although I love my cousin dearly, she has meltdowns and gets so stressed out around other people in social situations that I'm afraid of her. Now I'm not afraid she's going to hit me or hurt me but I'm afraid of her because I have no understanding of how to help her or what to do. When she wanders off away from a birthday party and everyone's looking for her because she's hiding from the noise I'm scared when I'm the one to find her because she looks terrified and she can't tell me how to help her.
When she has a meltdown she frightens other kids too, none of her little cousins want to play with her (and to be fair the child probably prefers that) and I've seen them try get her in trouble because when she's "bold" her mam puts her into the car with the DVD player and she'll calm down. Obviously her mam wants her to play with her cousins and get used to being around other kids so she's put into uncomfortable situations and it sucks seeing the others exclude her or try get her put in the car by herself when she is trying her best to intergrate and take part.

But I don't think it's fair to assume anyone who is affected by the behaviour for anymore than a reasonable amount of time is an asshole. Bitching about a kid because you didn't get to hear all the prayers of the faithful at a wedding or because a kids ears hurt or they were scared for 15 minutes is just an asshole thing to do. Asking to be moved after an hour of hysterical screaming is not unreasonable. When you're not used to that it is distressing and nerve wracking and annoying and feelings are feelings.

I think asd is so complex what might help one family could make things worse for another family so it's not like you can offer to help or make the parent think like you know better than them but almost 2hrs of screaming or seat kicking is unreasonable behaviour

Grayson · 01-09-2017 09:40PM

Just to add. We are programmed to find a child screaming disturbing. We're designed to find it unpleasant. It's so we react to it.

It's also natural that children cry. We have as little choice about it as they do. Except we can try to get over it.

pilly · 01-09-2017 09:42PM

Grayson wrote:

It's also natural that children cry. We have as little choice about it as they do. Except we can try to get over it.

Oh take it from a mother children over a certain age have a choice whether the cry or not because they can stop when bribes are made!

pilly · 01-09-2017 09:43PM

Snugglebunnies wrote:

Some people are clearly looking to be offended by children on sight. I was on a short flight with my daughter when she was about 4. About 30 minutes in the woman in front of her turned around and told me to stop my daughter kicking her seat. She went blood red when I pointed out that my daughter was a actually fast asleep. She was the type who obviously couldn't wait for her opportunity to give give out about a child. People are weird.

Some people may be like that but that's not what the thread is about.

Snugglebunnies · 01-09-2017 09:57PM

pilly wrote:

Some people may be like that but that's not what the thread is about.

I'm just pointing out that a kids behavior can be grossly exaggerated or made up completely by some people simply because they dislike children and are somehow trying to justify their dislike.

I was actually on a flight last month where a toddler cried for a good 45 minutes. I can't say it was enjoyable, but I wasn't irritated. I felt sorry for the poor dad more than anything who was doing his best trying to calm her down.

Anyone who makes a big deal out of a situation like that just looks like a dick. People rolling their eyes and tutting... You'd swear the dad was making her do it on purpose they way some people were reacting. I don't know what they were trying to achieve by behaving like that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 01-09-2017 10:04PM

^ fair enough YOURE not affected by it Snugglebunnies, but someone who is is not automatically an asshole.

Snugglebunnies · 01-09-2017 10:17PM

LexieOnRale wrote:

^ fair enough YOURE not affected by it Snugglebunnies, but someone who is is not automatically an asshole.

You're not an asshole to be affected by it, but you are if you start tutting, rolling your eyes and making smart comments. What exactly can anyone hope to achieve by doing that? It just makes the situation more tense and uncomfortable for everyone.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 01-09-2017 10:31PM

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

You're not an asshole to be affected by it, but you are if you start tutting, rolling your eyes and making smart comments. What exactly can anyone hope to achieve by doing that? It just makes the situation more tense and uncomfortable for everyone.

Last year I was in accident and emergency, obviously unwell. I was shown to a room and had to wait for the dr. There was a little boy who you could hear bellowing all over the unit. He was BAWLING, screaming for his mammy, then started screaming no no no no. I can only imagine he was hurt and scared and although he was obscenely loud and nobody could see him, you could hear he was terrified. It was horrible and I burst into tears in my little unit on my own. I wasn't annoyed with him, I couldn't even see him but i couldn't help being upset. You don't get to say how another person gets to react, you don't get a say in how someone feels, you don't get a say in how someone expresses themselves in a tense situation. If they have been subjected to ear piercing screams for almost two hours and had the back kicked off them, and couldn't remove them from the situation, let them tut, let them roll their eyes. Leave them to it.

Snugglebunnies · 01-09-2017 10:45PM

LexieOnRale wrote:

Last year I was in accident and emergency, obviously unwell. I was shown to a room and had to wait for the dr. There was a little boy who you could hear bellowing all over the unit. He was BAWLING, screaming for his mammy, then started screaming no no no no. I can only imagine he was hurt and scared and although he was obscenely loud and nobody could see him, you could hear he was terrified. It was horrible and I burst into tears in my little unit on my own. I wasn't annoyed with him, I couldn't even see him but i couldn't help being upset. You don't get to say how another person gets to react, you don't get a say in how someone feels, you don't get a say in how someone expresses themselves in a tense situation. If they have been subjected to ear piercing screams for almost two hours and had the back kicked off them, and couldn't remove them from the situation, let them tut, let them roll their eyes. Leave them to it.

How does an aggressive reaction improve the situation? It doesn't, it makes things worse so I don't see the point in even going there.

Most adults have been exposed to a wide variety of social situations throughout their lives and therefore are able to behave in an appropriate manner in situations such as the op. If you're saying adults with a ton of life experience cannot handle a tense situation, then how on earth can you expect a toddler with no life experience to behave in a socially acceptable way?

Do you think by telling a parent to shut their child up, that the noise will suddenly disappear? I'm sure the parent would never thought of that until the stranger suggested it!

Everyone annoyed the crap out of someone when they were little, so cut the poor babies some slack! I can't understand how some people have reached adulthood and still be so precious about things.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 01-09-2017 10:49PM

A bit of understanding in both situations. Don't expect all the understanding in the world without understanding other people's reactions. We see it on this thread. "If you're offended by my kids that's your problem" "we are more important than other passengers". That's pretty precious TBH

Snugglebunnies · 01-09-2017 10:57PM

LexieOnRale wrote:

A bit of understanding in both situations. Don't expect all the understanding in the world without understanding other people's reactions. We see it on this thread. "If you're offended by my kids that's your problem" "we are more important than other passengers". That's pretty precious TBH

I don't think most parents think they're more important though. I'm sure most parents are extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable when their child kicks off, especially in a confined space. I know I'd want the ground to open up and swallow me if I were in that situation.

I completely understand others being annoyed or upset by a child screaming. I said myself I didn't enjoy my experience of it lately.

The fact is aggressive reactions don't solve anything, in fact they make the whole scenario worse. I genuinely think a grown, mentally stable adult is capable of holding their tongue in such a situation as there's nothing to be gained by acting like a dick towards someone whom I'm sure feels really ****ty and embarrassed already.

Rubberlegs · 01-09-2017 11:37PM

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I don't think most parents think they're more important though. I'm sure most parents are extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable when their child kicks off, especially in a confined space. I know I'd want the ground to open up and swallow me if I were in that situation.

I completely understand others being annoyed or upset by a child screaming. I said myself I didn't enjoy my experience of it lately.

The fact is aggressive reactions don't solve anything, in fact they make the whole scenario worse. I genuinely think a grown, mentally stable adult is capable of holding their tongue in such a situation as there's nothing to be gained by acting like a dick towards someone whom I'm sure feels really ****ty and embarrassed already.

Yep, in my situation that I shared way back I was so embarrassed I could have died. To have someone then ask me could I not shut her up. And then to tell me the problem was she was spoilt because I was giving her stuff to occupy her in an effort to calm her. What the actual fcuk would she have liked me to do? All this carry on from a grown woman who was subjected to a child crying for less than half an hour. If I hadn't been doing a damn thing to try to rectify the situation, fair enough, get p1ssed off but anyone could see I was struggling and clearly mortified. Maybe it made her feel good to make me feel worse than I already did, I really don't know.

jackofalltrades · 02-09-2017 02:28AM

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I don't think most parents think they're more important though. I'm sure most parents are extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable when their child kicks off, especially in a confined space. I know I'd want the ground to open up and swallow me if I were in that situation.

I'd agree with you on that. But the fact is we've seen several parents, including the lady in the OP, displaying the "f*ck you my child has a right to fly attitude".
There's a reasonable middle ground in this discussion and it takes understanding of both sides to be in it.

The fact is aggressive reactions don't solve anything, in fact they make the whole scenario worse. I genuinely think a grown, mentally stable adult is capable of holding their tongue in such a situation as there's nothing to be gained by acting like a dick towards someone whom I'm sure feels really ****ty and embarrassed already.

Everyone has a breaking point, no matter how mentally stable you think people are they are going to snap at some point.
And they're not thinking in terms of making things better, they're reacting on an emotional level.
When the "flight or fight" mechanism kicks in when you're in a situation where you can't escape from, you've only get one type of reaction.

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-09-2017 07:00AM

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think that they are. I think it is the question.

I'm happy to agree that noisy or distressed kids on planes are a pain for everybody involved.

But my position is...what can I reasonably expect to happen?

That, for my sake...kids should not be allowed on planes? That parents with families that include young kids should not go on holidays that need flights? That kids be given some medicine to keep them quiet?

I don't think it's reasonable to expect any of that to happen (but these have been suggested in the thread), so what can I really do about it. Yes, it's going to annoy me, and I am being imposed upon more than I am imposing on others, but it's just something I'll have to put up with, because the only ways that I can think of to avoid it, are not reasonable.

What I think I can reasonably expect is that parents with kids who are suffering make efforts to calm them down (for their own sake much more than other passengers), and that parents with kids who are just being noisy make efforts to keep them quiet (for the consideration of other passengers).

I think this kind of situation is rare enough anyway, but on the few occasions there has been a child really crying/distressed, I've always seen the parents doing what they can to calm them down and keep them happy...I don't know what more I can reasonably hope for.

I think I'll just pop in and quote this excellent post every now and then.

02-09-2017 07:07AM

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Some people are clearly looking to be offended by children on sight.

Possibly.

But I'd say more often than not, any disapproval is directed at the parents. Not necessarily for failing to control the child, but for exposing the child to a situation where s/he's so obviously distressed in the first place. It's all been said before, that may be necessary, the reaction may be unforeseen, but it may also be the parent who is determined to get their holiday in the sun, knowing the distress it will cause the child and the reaction of others.

Some people are looking to be offended by children, and some people are looking to be offended by valid disapproval of their treatment of children.

pc7 · 02-09-2017 07:35AM

We did a two 1/2 hour flight when our little one was 18 months. Had a zip lock bag with new little toys (from deals) they hadn't seen so they could do a pick and mix. Kept them entertained for ages then they fell asleep. We were delighted and amazed how well flight went. We'd an oul wan beside us who was in the horrors as she wasn't with her family (they didn't pay for sears together).
Her grandkids were up and down the whole flight to her, blocking the aisle, being told to sit down etc. When
The flight ended she turned looked at my little one with absolute venom and muttered 'thank god that's over, flight from hell' I was speechless the baby had been a dream! There's no pleasing some people.

Snugglebunnies · 02-09-2017 09:33AM

Deleted User wrote:

Some people are looking to be offended by children, and some people are looking to be offended by valid disapproval of their treatment of children.

No. Some people are annoyed just by a child being in their presence. They don't even have to be distressed or annoying, just breathing!

BabysCoffee · 02-09-2017 09:41AM

pc7 wrote: »

We did a two 1/2 hour flight when our little one was 18 months. Had a zip lock bag with new little toys (from deals) they hadn't seen so they could do a pick and mix. Kept them entertained for ages then they fell asleep. We were delighted and amazed how well flight went. We'd an oul wan beside us who was in the horrors as she wasn't with her family (they didn't pay for sears together).
Her grandkids were up and down the whole flight to her, blocking the aisle, being told to sit down etc. When
The flight ended she turned looked at my little one with absolute venom and muttered 'thank god that's over, flight from hell' I was speechless the baby had been a dream! There's no pleasing some people.

Perhaps she had deliberately chose to not sit beside her grandkids and maybe wasn't too happy with then getting sat in beside another family?

branie2 · 02-09-2017 09:50AM

Some people just don't like kids

iamwhoiam · 02-09-2017 09:59AM

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

No. Some people are annoyed just by a child being in their presence. They don't even have to be distressed or annoying, just breathing!

Very very rarely am I annoyed by a young child but very often annoyed by their parents. Unruly loud kids who bother other are simply acting as they are allowed to and know that no one is stopping them . Parents who let kids bother other adults and run wild around restaurants etc are then ones I reserve my annoyance for .
Little toddlers sitting in buggies screaming and kicking while dragged around a shopping centre are not at fault in my opinion .Its the parent who continues around oblivious of a toddlers needs that needs the glare occasionally !
( I am now talking about children who are not autistic or have special needs by the way )

I saw a sign in a large furniture shop a while back that made me smile

Please feel free to let your children jump on our furniture .But only if you leave your name and address with us so we can come around after work and jump on your furniture .

pc7 · 02-09-2017 11:54AM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Perhaps she had deliberately chose to not sit beside her grandkids and maybe wasn't too happy with then getting sat in beside another family?

No cause she was giving out to flight attendant and asking to move and was in a snot when told flight was full and she'd have to stay put.

irishmoss · 02-09-2017 12:26PM

branie2 wrote: »

Some people just don't like kids

As long as they are not rude to parents they are entitled to their opinion. We shouldn't judge people who dislike children. Parent's themselves have more tolerance for their own kid's behaviour than others so they often see a situation through rose tinted glasses.

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-09-2017 12:27PM

It's also a cultural thing in the English speaking world.
In Italy you will never see a sign in a restaurant that says "children welcome". Because it's unthinkable that they won't be.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 02-09-2017 01:11PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Perhaps she had deliberately chose to not sit beside her grandkids and maybe wasn't too happy with then getting sat in beside another family?

Tough luck though? She doesn't own the plane and the child was asleep.

spookwoman · 02-09-2017 03:37PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Last year I was in accident and emergency, obviously unwell. I was shown to a room and had to wait for the dr. There was a little boy who you could hear bellowing all over the unit. He was BAWLING, screaming for his mammy, then started screaming no no no no. I can only imagine he was hurt and scared and although he was obscenely loud and nobody could see him, you could hear he was terrified. It was horrible and I burst into tears in my little unit on my own. I wasn't annoyed with him, I couldn't even see him but i couldn't help being upset. You don't get to say how another person gets to react, you don't get a say in how someone feels, you don't get a say in how someone expresses themselves in a tense situation. If they have been subjected to ear piercing screams for almost two hours and had the back kicked off them, and couldn't remove them from the situation, let them tut, let them roll their eyes. Leave them to it.

Kids will cry 90% when getting poked by a doc and that's normal. But I have seen the opposite in A+E as well where the waiting room corridor was filled with patients on trollies. I'd say the boy was about 3/4 years old(he wasn't the sick one) and because it was a long corridor it echoed. He copped onto the pretty quickly and started to let out these high pitched ear drum piercing squeals that not only echoed but cut right through you. Daddy had him in his arms and bouncing him and even hung him upside down basically encouraging the kid to squeal. This was well after 12 at night and not the place to allow a squealing kid when there were people who were sick, in pain trying to get some rest, you couldn't have a conversation with family it was that bad. When finally they moved into one of the waiting area's with a door, I have never seen people exit a room so quickly to get away from the noise.

Zubeneschamali · 02-09-2017 06:07PM

spookwoman wrote: »

But I have seen the opposite in A+E

Feel free to start a "children should not be allowed in A&E" thread, I'm sure many of the sociopaths here will agree.

Kids on Flights

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