Dublin V Mayo .. opinions on the final

kilns · 31-08-2017 1:53pm

If both teams play to their full potential then there is only one clear winner. However, its all what happens on the day, momentum shifts can happen, like a Mayo goal which lifts them to a level they have never been for period of the game or a black or red card and the referees performance can have a huge bearing, some of Dublins tackling against Tyrone was amazing and in a way Tyrone were too honest, if Mannion was doing the same to COC, you can be sure that COC will try and fool the ref into a foul, he has perfected that art, great if you are a Mayo fan

Stoner · 31-08-2017 1:57pm

kupus wrote:

From what I was reading a lot of the dub fans wanted kerry to win in the SF, as they know they can beat Kerry. Mayo can beat dublin. They just need a bit of luck going their way in the final. eg A fumbled cluxton catch into goal.

We just wanted to beat Kerry again.
That's a genuine position.

blanch152 · 31-08-2017 1:58pm

Stoner wrote: »

We just wanted to beat Kerry again.
That's a genuine position.

Yes, never get tired of beating Kerry.

Stoner · 31-08-2017 2:01pm

seligehgit wrote:

Very unlucky alright,second yellow was pretty harsh.

I don't think so, hadn't he ust let him off before that , and possibly antother time again, you know yourself when you get a tick in the book and you do it again very soon after it's often a yellow.

MayoAreMagic · 31-08-2017 2:13pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Presume he's talking about Crowley's red card.

True, although he was persistently fouling from the start, so it is possible that this is what he got the second yellow for. If it was then I give Gough some credit, as this is in fact quite cynical behaviour.

Id argue Durkan's red card was even more ridiculous to be honest with you. When you consider what Morley did at the throw in, how this can be deemed a second yellow card with no warning offered is hard to comprehend.

blanch152 · 31-08-2017 2:32pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

True, although he was persistently fouling from the start, so it is possible that this is what he got the second yellow for. If it was then I give Gough some credit, as this is in fact quite cynical behaviour.

Id argue Durkan's red card was even more ridiculous to be honest with you. When you consider what Morley did at the throw in, how this can be deemed a second yellow card with no warning offered is hard to comprehend.

The only card that was possibly undeserved and possibly had an effect on the result was the black for Darren O'Sullivan.

flasher0030 · 31-08-2017 2:56pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The only card that was possibly undeserved and possibly had an affect on the result was the black for Darren O'Sullivan.

Agreed. Mayo were in the clear. And only few minutes left. Foolish by Durkan to get involved in a handbags tussle at that stage. I know he’s only human and emotions and adrenaline can take over, but he shouldn’t be providing the referee with a decision to make. He got a red earlier in the year for an off the ball punch against Derry. 2 red cards in 9 matches is a lot, considering he has been sub for some of them.
I do feel aggrieved for Darren O’Sullivan. I won’t open the whole can of worms re black cards again – but the consequences of a wrong interpretation from an official for what is deemed to be a black card is just too severe on the player. One thing I don’t understand about that incident (and maybe I’m wrong on this) – wasn’t it Kerry who were on the front foot heading towards the Mayo goal, and Daren O’Sullivan started sprinting after the ball before himself and COC “bumped” into each other (Cillian was basically static). When the referee/linesman was making a decision, did he not factor in that it was clear that DOS was chasing after the ball. Why the hell would he want to body check O’Connor. O’Connor was going nowhere.

Shurimgreat · 31-08-2017 3:57pm

Black cards are essential to cut out cynicism in the game, but agreed their implementation can be wildly misinterpreted by referees. Some glaring black cards are not awarded, some not so obvious are. I suppose it comes with an amateur sport and amateur referees and everything decided in real time. UnlessVideo Assistant Referees are introduced sometime soon (unlikely) its something that will have to be put up with by all counties. Depending how crucial a player is, it could determine the result of the match.

Comic Book Guy · 31-08-2017 4:03pm

Remember the panel interview last year after the replay to wrap up the team of the year etc.
Des Cahill asked the entire panel "Can Mayo win the AL next year?"

I'm pretty sure each single panellist said No with not one of them making a case for the potential of it happening. This after losing to what is deemed one of the all time great teams by a point in a replay.

Now I'm not saying Mayo will win it this year but surely there was always a good chance they would be there or there abouts in 2017, nobody was of an age to be considering leaving the panel and they have been only been put out of the championship by the team that eventually won the AL since 2011.

I'm really looking forward to this game, 2 best teams in the country going head to head for second year in a row. Dublin deserved favourites but ya can be sure Mayo will give it an almighty rattle.

danganabu · 31-08-2017 4:05pm

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Remember the panel interview last year after the replay to wrap up the team of the year etc.
Des Cahill asked the entire panel "Can Mayo win the AL next year?"

I'm pretty sure each single panellist said No with not one of them making a case for the potential of it happening. This after losing to what is deemed one of the all time great teams by a point in a replay.

Now I'm not saying Mayo will win it this year but surely there was always a good chance they would be there or there abouts in 2017, nobody was of an age to be considering leaving the panel and they have been only been put out of the championship by the team that eventually won the AL since 2011.

I'm really looking forward to this game, 2 best teams in the country going head to head for second year in a row. Dublin deserved favourites but ya can be sure Mayo will give it an almighty rattle.

I guess it really depends on whether the questions was ''can they win'' or ''will they win'' - two very different questions to be fair.

BonnieSituation · 31-08-2017 4:10pm

Donal55 wrote: »

No replays please.

Putting money on a draw to cover the inevitable replay tickets.

Thanks PARlance!

Barlett · 31-08-2017 4:27pm

danganabu wrote: »

I guess it really depends on whether the questions was ''can they win'' or ''will they win'' - two very different questions to be fair.

Actually the question asked was, do they see Mayo winning an Ireland in the next few years - an emphatic no from everyone except for Joe Brolly who said 'Why can't they?'

Sebastian Dangerfield · 31-08-2017 4:27pm

As a Mayo supporter but Im not too confident, primarily based on comparing the two benches.

Dublin can have their pick from a huge squad, from the forwards especially. They could replace any of them during the game and not weaken the team. Loftus aside, any changes in the Mayo forwards make the team weaker. If it's a tight game down the stretch, I think that could be what sees Dublin through - they bring in Connolly and McManamon and we bring in Loftus and who - Drake, from prior games?

1-15 I think they're pretty evenly matched though.

ArielAtom · 31-08-2017 4:32pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

ArielAtom wrote: »

To be honest this Mayo team look like they have been working towards the AI final. They struggled through most games just doing enough, that was until Kerry replay. They look like the have achieved peaking. I am not sure who will win, it will only be the kick of a ball. Hopefully it is not a referring decision, anyway hopefully Dublin manage three in a row. It will cement them as the best team in the modern era, or maybe ever.

Its easy to say that; if Bryan Sheehan had scored that free the first day we wouldnt be saying it.

I would say Mayo find it difficult to get worked up for league games and Connaught championship games at this point.

As are Dublin in Leinster, you're point being??? Both teams untested then

PARlance · 31-08-2017 4:35pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Putting money on a draw to cover the inevitable replay tickets.

Thanks PARlance!

Full credit goes to Km79 for that theory.

If you're feeling adventurous, Mayo Kerry Draw HT & FT netted one punter down here a nice win at 50/1.

seligehgit · 31-08-2017 4:40pm

Ah please God no replay!:eek:

MayoAreMagic · 31-08-2017 4:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The only card that was possibly undeserved and possibly had an effect on the result was the black for Darren O'Sullivan.

If guys get yellow cards in the final for what Durkan got his card for, there wont be 10 players left on the field...

Also, it was generally accepted by most pundits that the two second yellows were harsh (assuming they weren't for repeated fouling) and that Gough/his assistant made a mistake on the Darren O'Sullivan call.

km79 · 31-08-2017 4:44pm

PARlance wrote: »

Full credit goes to Km79 for that theory.

If you're feeling adventurous, Mayo Kerry Draw HT & FT netted one punter down here a nice win at 50/1.

I may do this
But I'll certainly back the draw!

MayoAreMagic · 31-08-2017 4:54pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

I won’t open the whole can of worms re black cards again – but the consequences of a wrong interpretation from an official for what is deemed to be a black card is just too severe on the player.

Surely the same goes for a red card though? Not really an issue with the black card, but rather poor officiating.

flasher0030 wrote: »

One thing I don’t understand about that incident (and maybe I’m wrong on this) – wasn’t it Kerry who were on the front foot heading towards the Mayo goal, and Daren O’Sullivan started sprinting after the ball before himself and COC “bumped” into each other (Cillian was basically static). When the referee/linesman was making a decision, did he not factor in that it was clear that DOS was chasing after the ball. Why the hell would he want to body check O’Connor. O’Connor was going nowhere.

In fairness, it is possible that an attacker might take out a retreating defender to create an overlap for his team mates as they get closer to goal. Now that wasn't the case this time, but it is something that happens -Tyrone and Dublin use it fairly regularly. So I would give the ref a break on that front, he just read the situation incorrectly.

Bonniedog · 31-08-2017 5:09pm

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Dublin can have their pick from a huge squad, .

Dublin have exactly the same number of players on the panel as any other county.

seligehgit · 31-08-2017 5:15pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have exactly the same number of players on the panel as any other county.

I think he meant the sheer depth of quality of the Dublin bench,with which pretty much no other county can compete with.

donkey balls · 31-08-2017 6:16pm

Any word on who the ref is going be for the final.

seligehgit · 31-08-2017 6:22pm

donkey balls wrote: »

Any word on who the ref is going be for the final.

Nah but Joe McQuillan seems to be favourite for the gig.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 31-08-2017 6:23pm

seligehgit wrote: »

I think he meant the sheer depth of quality of the Dublin bench,with which pretty much no other county can compete with.

I did.

Mayo have a first 15, 3-4 you could alternate in without a drop in quality, then a big fall off.

Dublin could make 6 or 7 changes and I dont think anyone would notice

Bonniedog · 31-08-2017 6:25pm

seligehgit wrote: »

Nah but Joe McQuillan seems to be favourite for the gig.

He was in the Auld Triangle after the match on Sunday wearing a Dublin jersey, a Luke Kelly beard and wig, ating a bowl of coddle, drinking stout, and singing The Foggy Dew.

And some people reckon he is biased

seligehgit · 31-08-2017 6:32pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

He was in the Auld Triangle after the match on Sunday wearing a Dublin jersey, a Luke Kelly beard and wig, ating a bowl of coddle, drinking stout, and singing The Foggy Dew.

And some people reckon he is biased

Ah well they don't call him Dublin Joe for nothing!:pac::D

Thought he did a decent job in 2013.

CatInABox · 31-08-2017 7:42pm

seligehgit wrote: »

Ah well they don't call him Dublin Joe for nothing!:pac::D

Thought he did a decent job in 2013.

He's always done a fair enough job. I've never detected a hint of bias in any senior referee in all the years I've been watching. Everyone of them are susceptible to the odd brain fart and getting a call or two wrong, but there's no malice in any of their calls, at least in my opinion.

Stoner · 31-08-2017 7:47pm

CatInABox wrote:

but there's no malice in any of their calls, at least in my opinion.

It has to be said

Bonniedog · 31-08-2017 7:52pm

CatInABox wrote: »

He's always done a fair enough job. I've never detected a hint of bias in any senior referee in all the years I've been watching. Everyone of them are susceptible to the odd brain fart and getting a call or two wrong, but there's no malice in any of their calls, at least in my opinion.

Two words:

Seamus Aldridge.

Had to be seen to be believed. Dublin threatened to refuse to play matches if has given them. He had his revenge in 1978.

lukesmom · 31-08-2017 8:34pm

Sick to the teeth of it. They should rename it the 'Sam Maguire Dublin cup'. Nobody seems to have a chance against the dubs. They are phenomenal. Fair play to the team who put in all the hard work just like Mayo do. But the difference is the dublin squad have a huge amount of resources and money pumped into it from underage up. It's extremely lob sided and extremely frustrating to watch Mayo slog their hearts out but never get past the line. I'm a die hard mayo fan because my dad is from belmullet and played for Mayo for many hears. And the heartache caused by not winning an all Ireland is sickening year after year. How do these lads on the dublin team work a full week and maintain that level of fitness that they do? They can play in Croke Park it's so handy for them. No travelling. Easy. Sickening.

Bonniedog · 31-08-2017 8:46pm

Two words:

Crystal meth.

The secret to Dublin's success. What genius had them on Xanax between 1995 and 2011?

Once we got the right gear there was no stopping the brothers. 'Struth,

PARlance · 31-08-2017 8:48pm

CatInABox wrote: »

but there's no malice in any of their calls, at least in my opinion.

Is that you Martin Carney?

Stoner wrote: »

It has to be said

Too subtle Stoner

Bunny Colvin · 31-08-2017 8:50pm

lukesmom wrote: »

Sick to the teeth of it. They should rename it the 'Sam Maguire Dublin cup'. Nobody seems to have a chance against the dubs. They are phenomenal. Fair play to the team who put in all the hard work just like Mayo do. But the difference is the dublin squad have a huge amount of resources and money pumped into it from underage up. It's extremely lob sided and extremely frustrating to watch Mayo slog their hearts out but never get past the line. I'm a die hard mayo fan because my dad is from belmullet and played for Mayo for many hears. And the heartache caused by not winning an all Ireland is sickening year after year. How do these lads on the dublin team work a full week and maintain that level of fitness that they do? They can play in Croke Park it's so handy for them. No travelling. Easy. Sickening.

FFS, I'd like to see Mayo have a crack at them before throwing in the towel

blanch152 · 31-08-2017 8:53pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

He was in the Auld Triangle after the match on Sunday wearing a Dublin jersey, a Luke Kelly beard and wig, ating a bowl of coddle, drinking stout, and singing The Foggy Dew.

And some people reckon he is biased

Was he the one in the sky blue jersey?

blanch152 · 31-08-2017 8:56pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Surely the same goes for a red card though? Not really an issue with the black card, but rather poor officiating.

In fairness, it is possible that an attacker might take out a retreating defender to create an overlap for his team mates as they get closer to goal. Now that wasn't the case this time, but it is something that happens -Tyrone and Dublin use it fairly regularly. So I would give the ref a break on that front, he just read the situation incorrectly.

As opposed to Mayo who never take a player off the ball?

Bonniedog · 31-08-2017 8:58pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Was he the one in the sky blue jersey?

He wants to wear a half black/half blue friendship jersey for the final but Gavin reckons that might spook the cartel who are buying him the villa in Marbella.

Tough call.

17togo · 31-08-2017 9:26pm

Arcade_Tryer wrote:

Predicting Mayo to win by a goal. Can see Dublin struggling to cope with Mayo's running from defence.

Like Tyrone were supposed to do?! Gaelic football probably needs Mayo to win, but can't see it after this weekend. As bad and all as Kerry were with 10ish minutes to go they were only 4 points down. Dublin look so comfortable on the ball, they've got about 10 players that can score from distance with ease!

As with Kilkenny in their prime you kinda have to admire them and just hope for competitiveness sake that Mayo win! Just can't see it though!

As a neutral I kinda don't mind who wins, it'll be a good game though I'd say!

ProudDUB · 31-08-2017 9:31pm

Who is going to volunteer to have Kieran Cunningham (Daily Star) "taken care of" coz we can't have him tweeting our secrets to all and sundry now....

Kieran Cunningham ‏Verified account
@KCsixtyseven 9h9 hours ago

Former Dublin footballers with newspaper columns have gathered in the Sunnybank in the last hour to plan what to write about Mayo.

bazzare · 31-08-2017 9:59pm

I reckon Mayo need to score at least 2 goals to have any chance.. Maybe 3

they need to go for goals at every opportunity....

If Mayo were to win i can see them winning by a single point... reckon it will be close either way

they need to be very disciplined and don't be giving away silly frees

I don't think anyone would go to work in Mayo for a week if they get over the line

it would be the greatest piss up Ireland has ever seen if they can win it !!

Arcade_Tryer · 31-08-2017 10:01pm

17togo wrote: »

Like Tyrone were supposed to do?!

Because Mayo are as bad as Tyrone?! Mayo are a lot closer to Dublin than they are to Tyrone.

Bunny Colvin · 31-08-2017 10:08pm

bazzare wrote: »

I don't think anyone would go to work in Mayo for a week if they get over the line

it would be the greatest piss up Ireland has ever seen if they can win it !!

I don't know. We've drank plenty after losing finals, last year was no different. A win might actually calm us down a little. That being said, there was plenty drank last Saturday night!

17togo · 31-08-2017 10:52pm

Arcade_Tryer wrote:

Because Mayo are as bad as Tyrone?! Mayo are a lot closer to Dublin than they are to Tyrone.

We won't know until they play Dublin maybe? Before the weekend Tyrone we're being given a fairly good chance of putting it up to Dublin. Not so long ago mayo were written off as contenders. Dublin set the bar!

superbluedub · 31-08-2017 11:16pm

bazzare wrote: »

I reckon Mayo need to score at least 2 goals to have any chance.. Maybe 3

they need to go for goals at every opportunity....

If Mayo were to win i can see them winning by a single point... reckon it will be close either way

they need to be very disciplined and don't be giving away silly frees

I don't think anyone would go to work in Mayo for a week if they get over the line

it would be the greatest piss up Ireland has ever seen if they can win it !!

They wont

rossie1977 · 31-08-2017 11:28pm

17togo wrote: »

Like Tyrone were supposed to do?! Gaelic football probably needs Mayo to win, but can't see it after this weekend. As bad and all as Kerry were with 10ish minutes to go they were only 4 points down. Dublin look so comfortable on the ball, they've got about 10 players that can score from distance with ease!

As with Kilkenny in their prime you kinda have to admire them and just hope for competitiveness sake that Mayo win! Just can't see it though!

As a neutral I kinda don't mind who wins, it'll be a good game though I'd say!

I was at the match Sunday and Tyrone's tactics were baffling to say the least especially from the upper Hogan. Everyone in their own half when Dublin had the ball thus allowing Dublin free reign to waltz up to the Tyrone 60 everytime.

Mayo won't allow that, they will push up on Cluxton and Moran, O'Connor will keep the Dublin full back/half back occupied the full match and not allow those players run up the field like Tyrone did.

In saying that on paper Dublin should win given the performance of both teams up to now and with the quality of player Dublin can bring in off the bench like Brogan, Connolly, Flynn. However Dublin struggled with Mayo last year, didn't score for 30 minutes in the first game (Mayo scoring two own goals) and Dublin's all Ireland performances in recent years have been their most unimpressive of the season. They still haven't had that blow-away final performance and fallen over the line in many ways.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 01-09-2017 4:28am

17togo wrote: »

We won't know until they play Dublin maybe? Before the weekend Tyrone we're being given a fairly good chance of putting it up to Dublin. Not so long ago mayo were written off as contenders. Dublin set the bar!

Tyrone were massively overrated by the media. They've had a terrible record against the big teams outside of Ulster in recent years and as I posted here I thought that Dublin would win with a degree of comfort.

robbiezero · 01-09-2017 7:34am

17togo wrote: »

We won't know until they play Dublin maybe? Before the weekend Tyrone we're being given a fairly good chance of putting it up to Dublin. Not so long ago mayo were written off as contenders. Dublin set the bar!

There was no evidence only their Ulster championship form that Tyrone would put it up to Dublin, I actually thought that they would.
However there is plenty of evidence of Mayo being able to put it up to Dublin.

robbiezero · 01-09-2017 7:43am

rossie1977 wrote: »

I was at the match Sunday and Tyrone's tactics were baffling to say the least especially from the upper Hogan. Everyone in their own half when Dublin had the ball thus allowing Dublin free reign to waltz up to the Tyrone 60 everytime.

Mayo won't allow that, they will push up on Cluxton and Moran, O'Connor will keep the Dublin full back/half back occupied the full match and not allow those players run up the field like Tyrone did.

In saying that on paper Dublin should win given the performance of both teams up to now and with the quality of player Dublin can bring in off the bench like Brogan, Connolly, Flynn. However Dublin struggled with Mayo last year, didn't score for 30 minutes in the first game (Mayo scoring two own goals) and Dublin's all Ireland performances in recent years have been their most unimpressive of the season. They still haven't had that blow-away final performance and fallen over the line in many ways.

Baffling is right. I can understand the defensive system etc, I'm not sure if it can work against Dublin, but their implementation of it was nuts.
I expected them to vigorously defend the 50 yard line with a bank of 6 or 7 players and then a reserve bank inside the 45 to back it up and 2/3 players around the D and in their full back line.
However they conceded both side lines to Dublin, meaning that instead of lining up to defend an 80 yard front, they had to defend 150 yard front and were effectively one on one across that line with no reserve in behind.
Dublin only had to find one lapse in concentration, one "soft shoulder", one nice little one-two to get in for a shot.
Tyrone also had 3/4 lads in around the D at times covering one Dublin forward while being stretched along their main defensive line. The first time Dublin went down the sideline Tyrone should have moved hell and earth to turn them over.
But the above is not to give enough credit to Dublin for their magnificent skill and shooting accuracy. A lot of the shots they got away were only half chances at best, but they made it look easy.

Squatman · 01-09-2017 7:50am

17togo wrote: »

Dublin look so comfortable on the ball, they've got about 10 players that can score from distance with ease!

The important point in this statement was left out. Dublin can score from distance with ease when let. were they let score from distance (distance being 1mm+) in the first 20 mins of the final last year? iirc Mayo did all their scoring for them...

Squatman · 01-09-2017 7:52am

bazzare wrote: »

I reckon Mayo need to score at least 2 goals to have any chance.. Maybe 3

If Mayo were to win i can see them winning by a single point... reckon it will be close either way

are you jesus? that is the wisest word i have seen on boards ever...

Drumpot · 01-09-2017 7:57am

Mayo struggled past poor opposition during the championship
Mayo left it behind in the first game agaisnt Kerry very much like they did in last years final against Dublin
Mayo don't have better players
Mayo don't have better bench
Mayo haven't beaten this Dublin team in championship final
Mayo have a poor record in finals
Mayo have not won the all Ireland

Dublin are multiple all Ireland winners
They just destroyed the Ulster champions, who many believed would god then a real challenge
Dublin have the strongest bench in the country
Dublin have beaten Mayo in finals
Dublin look in as good a shape as they have looked the last 10 years
Dublin have lost 1 game in 3 years

Now I am sure I could post some other information but I'm not sure where the Mayo over confidence is coming from. Of course they should be looking forward to the final and they might win it.. But a lot of things have to go their way on the day, particularly their tactics, for them to win.

With regards to the cluxton kickouts, I agree it's a concern I have. But I was also concerned that Tyrone would catch Dublin out like Donegal did a few years ago and look at how Dublin addresses the blanket defence! To dismiss the Tyrone result as "Tyrone were awful" could be countered by "Kerry were awful and mad to change tactics so dramatically". In short, I hope Dublin have addressed this very real pressing tactic that we know mayo are so good at.

In terms of the Kerry game, I felt mayo missed an opportunity in the first game to put the away when they were on top. It was very similar to last years final when Mayo didn't put Dublin away. It asks the question as to whether or not mayo have learned much from last years defeat or have they simply managed to get to the final with a very experienced , quality team.

I think it will be a close final, but if both teams play to their peak I can't see how Mayo could win. It's not an arrogant thing, it's simply looking at the facts because anything that is in favour of mayo is relying on them stopping Dublin playing to their peak while at the same time Mayo need to be practically flawless. Dublin, like last years final, have room to manoeuvre and have proven they can beat Mayo while underperforming.

If Mayo do win , I think it could arguably be the greatest accomplishment ever and would certainly change how people should judge teams during championships. And I am not saying mayo can't win, I'm saying they need a lot more going their way then dublin do, to get over the line.

Dublin V Mayo .. opinions on the final

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