"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

Penn · 29-08-2017 10:10AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Not when she's going to double cross the dragon queen. It would destroy his character for them to spend seasons with Tyrian totally sold on Darnerys, even for him to be risking his life to tell cersai that he believes the world would be a better place as her as queen. And then because she doesn't kill him he makes a complete switcharoo . That's not Tyrian.

I think it was odd him standing outside , but maybe he was contemplating what that would mean for the war or his queen. He is her hand, so his job is to anticipate trouble and advise her accordingly. In short he is always worried about his queen , maybe he will have less say with Jon in by picture and it signals Tyrions waning importance to Her. Or maybe she felt a bit like family or a good friend and after seeing his own family for the firt time in years he felt he just wanted her company.

I think a lot of the time, you'd be right. But considering the importance of that moment, its position in the season finale during this big reveal of Jon's true parentage and claim to the Iron Throne... cutting away to Tyrion repeatedly just because he's worried about Dany is an odd choice and unnecessary. If that's all it is, they could easily have left it until next season, show Tyrion seeing Jon coming out of Dany's room the next morning and gone with the same story of him being worried about Dany.

But I think there's likely some significance to purposefully showing Tyrion watching them during that huge moment and that it's hinting at something far stronger than just Tyrion being concerned about their relationship.

silvervixen84 · 29-08-2017 10:11AM

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

Tell me how · 29-08-2017 10:18AM

silvervixen84 wrote:

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

Not unless they are claimed as a Wight by the NK and/or a nightwalker, if my understanding is correct.

Penn · 29-08-2017 10:20AM

silvervixen84 wrote: »

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

I think they have to be raised by either the Night King or a White Walker. They don't just come back to life themselves. We saw that in episode 6 where once the White Walker was killed, the wights he had raised we suddenly full dead again. I presume there's some sort of distance they have to be near to raise the dead.

I think the reason they always burnt bodies was to prevent the WW from being able to raise them, rather than them definitely coming back to life.

Mousewar · 29-08-2017 10:22AM

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I was discussing this at work this morning and the general feeling is that Tyrion may turn. We didn't see the rest of the conversation with Cersei.
She revealed she is pregnant and then next thing she's agreeing to help them. Maybe Tyrion, now knowing there is going to be a Lannister child, has agreed to act as a spy?

There was quite a bit of emphasis on how much Tyrion loved the children alright. He made quite a meal of it. It was almost as if they were laying the justification for why he might consider helping Cersei now that there's another child's life at stake.

AlmightyCushion · 29-08-2017 10:31AM

Isn't that big, scary, undead, dragon actually not that big of a threat? One hit from an arrow made from valerian steel or dragonglass and he's done for.

charlieIRL · 29-08-2017 10:44AM

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

I came to post the exact same thing. I think Tyrion has been conflicted since he saw the Lannister men burning. When all that was left of the family was Cersei and Jamie I think he could justify his support for Dany. Now that there is a child on the way to keep the family line going, and knowing that it's highly likely there's no version of a Dany win where Cersei (and the baby) lives, I think we're going to see a heel turn from Tyrion.

Maybe Tyrion was feeling guilt but if Jamie makes it to Winterfell and they make up then he'll be firmly back on team Danny.

Great episode, such a pity that's it for this season.

Billy86 · 29-08-2017 10:49AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Isn't that big, scary, undead, dragon actually not that big of a threat? One hit from an arrow made from valerian steel or dragonglass and he's done for.

What if it's not enough to penetrate his scales, like when a flurry of (admittedly non dragon glass) just bounced off Drogon in Highgarden a few episodes ago?

Seems like Qyburn's invention might come in particularly useful at some point!

charlieIRL · 29-08-2017 10:52AM

CobraClan wrote: »

.......but have to say all the spoilers and leeks this year, it was so bad it was unavoidable! Say it ruined it for a lot of people, ........

One of the lads at work watched it Sunday night and came in and spoiled it for the rest of us yesterday morning.
I knew the wall was coming down as i was watching the episode. Was F'N rageing. :mad::mad:

AlmightyCushion · 29-08-2017 10:55AM

Billy86 wrote: »

What if it's not enough to penetrate his scales, like when a flurry of (admittedly non dragon glass) just bounced off Drogon in Highgarden a few episodes ago?

Seems like Qyburn's invention might come in particularly useful at some point!

If I remember right wasn't there a spear and a bunch of arrows sticking out of one of the dragons at one stage. It was during the scene where they were in the fighting pits and being attacked and one of the dragons comes to help them. Doesn't seem that difficult to penetrate them (giggidy).

Mr. CooL ICE · 29-08-2017 10:58AM

silvervixen84 wrote: »

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

I think you've been watching too much Walking Dead

Drumpot · 29-08-2017 11:10AM

Penn wrote: »

I think a lot of the time, you'd be right. But considering the importance of that moment, its position in the season finale during this big reveal of Jon's true parentage and claim to the Iron Throne... cutting away to Tyrion repeatedly just because he's worried about Dany is an odd choice and unnecessary. If that's all it is, they could easily have left it until next season, show Tyrion seeing Jon coming out of Dany's room the next morning and gone with the same story of him being worried about Dany.

But I think there's likely some significance to purposefully showing Tyrion watching them during that huge moment and that it's hinting at something far stronger than just Tyrion being concerned about their relationship.

Penn wrote: »

I think they have to be raised by either the Night King or a White Walker. They don't just come back to life themselves. We saw that in episode 6 where once the White Walker was killed, the wights he had raised we suddenly full dead again. I presume there's some sort of distance they have to be near to raise the dead.

I think the reason they always burnt bodies was to prevent the WW from being able to raise them, rather than them definitely coming back to life.

I know what you are saying guys , just feels like it would destroy the character, arguably the greatest onscreen character ever . . And while its not uncommon for people to backstab in the series, it just seems like a shame to waste arguably the most popular character on a twist like this.

To contradict myself, Cersai saying that Jamie is "too stupid" to cop her plan (when he is laying plans on the map to go north) does actually suggest that she has dropped Jamie for Tyrion. At this stage, her and Tyrion represent her dad, the strategists focusing only on their own gain/survival/winning no matter the cause.

On one level it frees up Jamie to be the hero from the shadows which is exciting. I just don't want to hate Tyrion ! !

D_D · 29-08-2017 11:24AM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Yeah, and in the scene before, Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone and strikes the same rib twice in succession yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we- to believe that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something?

nc6000 · 29-08-2017 11:25AM

What does "the wolf" part of the episode title refer to?

AlmightyCushion · 29-08-2017 11:27AM

nc6000 wrote: »

What does "the wolf" part of the episode title refer to?

Jon is both a dragon (Targeryen) and a wolf (Stark).

Penn · 29-08-2017 11:35AM

nc6000 wrote: »

What does "the wolf" part of the episode title refer to?

Rhaegar (Dragon) & Lyanna (Wolf)
Dany (Dragon) & Jon (Wolf) - Because they don't know about Jon's true parentage
Aegon Targaryen (Dragon) & Jon Snow (Wolf) - As with Jon's words to Theon about how he's both a Greyjoy and a Stark, the same applies to Jon about how he's both a Targaryen and a Stark

HalloweenJack · 29-08-2017 11:35AM

I got the feeling that the constant focus on Tyrion during the Targaryen love scene was to suggest that he knew the whole story, as we heard Bran explaining things in the background. Or he's Lord Friendzone the Second.

I can't wait to see what happens to Jaime. I've always liked him in spite of his loyalty to Cersei. If he can get away from her, he could actually do some good.

Penn · 29-08-2017 11:43AM

One thing I also really enjoyed about the episode was Littlefinger getting called out on being the one who set so many of the events of the show in motion, by turning Ned (and therefore the North) against the Lannisters (and therefore the King). It was great to see that part of it all come to a conclusion, and for Sansa to be the one to do it by playing him at his own game (and given how much she suffered due to his games). Plus Arya killing him with his own dagger.

I really enjoyed that whole scene, and Aiden Gillen played it brilliantly too in fairness. I know he gets stick for his changing accent (have to say I never really noticed any huge discrepancies in it anyway) but he was a great character throughout.

jcd5971 · 29-08-2017 11:51AM

challengemaster wrote:

Bran: I CAN SEE EVERYTHING

challengemaster wrote:

Meanwhile: Cersai betrayal, NK has a dragon

challengemaster wrote:

Bran: WE MUST TELL JON HIS REAL NAME

Bran: Jon I seen you get stabbed to death by your brothers, you looked beautiful in your black cloak

GBX · 29-08-2017 11:56AM

Penn wrote: »

One thing I also really enjoyed about the episode was Littlefinger getting called out on being the one who set so many of the events of the show in motion, by turning Ned (and therefore the North) against the Lannisters (and therefore the King). It was great to see that part of it all come to a conclusion, and for Sansa to be the one to do it by playing him at his own game (and given how much she suffered due to his games). Plus Arya killing him with his own dagger.

I really enjoyed that whole scene, and Aiden Gillen played it brilliantly too in fairness. I know he gets stick for his changing accent (have to say I never really noticed any huge discrepancies in it anyway) but he was a great character throughout.

I have started rewatching from the start and watched S01E7 "You Win or You Die" and the accent is very prominently English in this. Having watched it. It has changed quite a lot as the show has progressed.
That being said he was a brilliant character and eventually got his comeuppance after so many different story lines where he used people.

Billy86 · 29-08-2017 11:59AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If I remember right wasn't there a spear and a bunch of arrows sticking out of one of the dragons at one stage. It was during the scene where they were in the fighting pits and being attacked and one of the dragons comes to help them. Doesn't seem that difficult to penetrate them (giggidy).

...there was a reason I reworded from 'penetrate him' to 'penetrate his scales'. :mad:

I think that was when they were smaller and younger though, with their scales having got significantly thicker since then. Can't say if that's definitely the case, but I'm quite sure I remember a whole bunch of arrows just bounced off him before Bronn got the (technical term here) big thingy.

Mr Crispy · 29-08-2017 12:02PM

Magic cock?

Billy86 · 29-08-2017 12:04PM

GBX wrote: »

I have started rewatching from the start and watched S01E7 "You Win or You Die" and the accent is very prominently English in this. Having watched it. It has changed quite a lot as the show has progressed.
That being said he was a brilliant character and eventually got his comeuppance after so many different story lines where he used people.

It changed quite suddenly when he got Sansa out of KL on the boat, no? I think it is supposed to be very intentional, when talking with the posh folk down south he puts on his posh accent, but when outside of there/up north he speaks in a much gruffer accent, which is more likely his real one, given where he grew up - the five little spits of land in the NE of the Erie, far closer to the north than the likes of KL, Highgarden, etc, that kind of resemble the Kerry/Cork coastline. They're called the 'five fingers' and his family were more or less nobodies came from the smallest of them (which also puts to death whether or not the name Littlefinger is a dick joke!).

GBX · 29-08-2017 12:06PM

Billy86 wrote: »

It changed quite suddenly when he got Sansa out of KL on the boat, no? I think it is supposed to be very intentional, when talking with the posh folk down south he puts on his posh accent, but when outside of there/up north he speaks in a much gruffer accent, which is more likely his real one, given where he grew up - the five little spits of land in the NE of the Erie, far closer to the north than the likes of KL, Highgarden, etc, that kind of resemble the Kerry/Cork coastline. They're called the 'five fingers' and his family were more or less nobodies came from the smallest of them (which also puts to death whether or not the name Littlefinger is a dick joke!).

It could well be that point .. I'll confirm when I catch up to that point again. No spoilers please :pac::p

Bigbagofcans · 29-08-2017 12:17PM

What magnificent buns of (Valyrian) steel Jon has!

TerrorFirmer · 29-08-2017 12:19PM

GBX wrote: »

I have started rewatching from the start and watched S01E7 "You Win or You Die" and the accent is very prominently English in this. Having watched it. It has changed quite a lot as the show has progressed.
That being said he was a brilliant character and eventually got his comeuppance after so many different story lines where he used people.

The part Bran references in this episode 'I told you not to trust me' - go back and actually watch that, and he sounds 100% British when he whispers it to Ned. In the first season he sort of flops between English with an Irish lilt but everything from the composure to speed of his speech is different in the first season.

I brought this up in one of the previous threads and was accused of over-analyzing - but it does change completely and utterly from earlier seasons, we're not like we're talking about subtle changes! It stands out when you rewatch earlier seasons rather than think back, obviously.

It changed quite suddenly when he got Sansa out of KL on the boat, no? I think it is supposed to be very intentional, when talking with the posh folk down south he puts on his posh accent, but when outside of there/up north he speaks in a much gruffer accent, which is more likely his real one, given where he grew up - the five little spits of land in the NE of the Erie, far closer to the north than the likes of KL, Highgarden, etc, that kind of resemble the Kerry/Cork coastline. They're called the 'five fingers' and his family were more or less nobodies came from the smallest of them (which also puts to death whether or not the name Littlefinger is a dick joke!).

Yes, that's where I noticed it as well. This is actually a great theory - and it satisfied me, until I went back to S5 when he returns to Kings Landing and speaks with various people including Cersei, and he still has his 'new' accent, so it genuinely is just an altered accent, whatever the reason.

Gillen is very good at accents usually, so I assume there must be a reason or logic to it, because surely the producers would have been like " CUT! Ehhh...Aidan...why are you talking like you've got a leprechauns balls in your mouth?" if he just decided to roll out a new accent out of nowhere when filming S3.

tedpan · 29-08-2017 12:22PM

Not loving the ice fire from the dragon. What the **** was that??

GottaGetGatt · 29-08-2017 01:29PM

Tyrion is not going to backstab Danaerys. Not a hope has he made plans with Cersei off screen. It's just stupid and makes almost sense.

29-08-2017 01:46PM

tedpan wrote: »

Not loving the ice fire from the dragon. What the **** was that??

You've obviously never seen Yo-Gi-Oh!

rojito · 29-08-2017 02:03PM

Typical GoT to play with your perceptions of characters, several characters this season had pointedly mentioned how Ned Stark was the most honourable/noble/etc man they had ever met but one of the big revelations from last night was that he had, in fact, always known that Jon was a legitimate Targaryean and heir to the throne. So, he betrayed his own family (his sister) massively by denying Jon his birthright and actively encouraging him to go to the Wall where he would renounce all claims to titles (before he knew such claims existed). "I'll tell you about your mother next time we meet", or whatever the exact words were, knowing all too well that at that stage it would be too late for Jon to do anything to challenge Roberts reign, or even for Targaryean supporters to use his existence as an excuse to rebel.

It could be a bit of a Sixth Sense-style plot twist... Ned was a bolix all along.

"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

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