"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

gpstracker · 28-08-2017 04:25PM

I liked that the Night King was riding the dragon, before we saw that I was thinking it'd be handy enough for him to fly over the wall, kill a good few and raise an undead army that side, then attack the wall from both sides. Even Essos wouldn't have been safe if the series was not to finish next turn out. When it came down to it the auld wall was brittle enough. Not sure the livings plan of sailing off to an island someplace has much credence now with the undead air force in play.

MisterAnarchy · 28-08-2017 04:58PM

gpstracker wrote: »

When it came down to it the auld wall was brittle enough.

The wall is supposed to be 700 feet tall (213 meters) and an average of 300 feet in width (91 meters).
What we saw at the end of that episode was a wall about 700 feet tall and about 30 feet wide .:rolleyes:

28-08-2017 05:19PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but being able to see everything, he can be distracted by events he considers more important than others. Even though he tried to express earlier in the season that overall they are insignificant to him.

Not quite it seems. Bran seemed unaware of Rhaegar's annullment, since he referred to 'Sand'. i.e. a b*st*rd in Dorne, until Sam Tarly told him about it.

MisterAnarchy · 28-08-2017 05:53PM

pah wrote: »

If I was going to try and knock a wall I'd start at one end or the other rather than in the middle. Perhaps it tapers near the end at Eastwatch compared to Castleblack?

Yes you are probably correct ,it certainly seems very narrow at Eastwatch .
Still though it seemed to collapse pretty easily ,a few blasts from the dragon and it came down in minutes.

I was sad to see Littlefingers go , he was an excellent character who the writers made a complete mess of this series.
He met his end in what was, in effect, nothing more than a meaningless 'aside' and as a 'sop to fandom who might be wanting a 'shocking death' but not of anyone they actually like.

A Primal Nut · 28-08-2017 05:54PM

pah wrote: »

It's a pity they had the Aegon reveal like that. We all suspected of course and when Gilly dropped it a couple of episodes ago it was glossed over by Sam too quickly.

IMO it would have been much better to have Sam arrive at Winterfell earlier and have Bran tell him about L+R=J only for Gilly to drop the bomb a little later. It would have been more effective I reckon.

Overall great Ep, wasn't sure how sansa/arya would play out. Was all the animosity from the last few eps purely for littlefingers benefit as part of their ploy? even the private scenes.

I think there was animosity between Sansa and Arya but clearly Sansa talked to Bran in between the two scenes and he told her about Littlefinger holding a knife to Ned's throat, and the knife belonging to him being used in the attempt to kill Bran, both of which came up in the inquest, and Sansa finally figured out ("I'm a slow learner") that it was Littlefinger who was trying to turn Arya and Sansa against each other.

Sparko · 28-08-2017 06:13PM

Washout wrote: »

What is Jamie's Fake hand made of....wonder if his handicap will actually play a crucial role if it is Valarian Steal. Or Am I reading too much into the scene where is leaving KL and has a long look at his hand.

He was looking at the snow that had just started falling I think.

Brock Turnpike · 28-08-2017 06:16PM

I honestly think people must play with their phones during episodes. Some of the questions being asked...

Brock Turnpike · 28-08-2017 06:19PM

So the NK needed a dragon to take the wall down, which he only got as a result of the "Dragonstone Brains Trust" deciding to go north to capture a wight. They effectively opened the door to him. He's have been stood looking at the wall for years if they'd just left him.

leggo · 28-08-2017 06:24PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

So the NK needed a dragon to take the wall down, which he only got as a result of the "Dragonstone Brains Trust" deciding to go north to capture a wight. They effectively opened the door to him. He's have been stood looking at the wall for years if they'd just left him.

One of those decisions that looks foolish in hindsight, but then how were they to know they'd even need a dragon in that venture? Then how were they to know the NK had the capability of taking one down? How were they to know before they left that he could turn it if he did (considering the purpose of the bear scene was to establish "Oh yeah, he can turn big animals too..." to the characters)? Did the Night's King even know the blue dragon fire could take down the wall or was it just a hit-and-hope that worked?

It's a cock-up on the characters' part, no doubt, but it's one I can easily accept.

MisterAnarchy · 28-08-2017 06:32PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

So the NK needed a dragon to take the wall down, which he only got as a result of the "Dragonstone Brains Trust" deciding to go north to capture a wight. They effectively opened the door to him. He's have been stood looking at the wall for years if they'd just left him.

That would seem to be the case,he and his army would be stranded only for Tyrion and Jon Snows idiotic ideas.
Jon Snow doesn't have much between the ears .
He is all heart no brain I'm afraid as he demonstrated in the Battle of the Bastards and on the Frozen Lake .

You'd think that the Dragonstone Brains Trust would have consulted a maester or two to find out if the army of the dead and Night King can pass the pass voluntarily.
Maybe Bran would pipe up instead of moping around and keeping his mouth shut .He sees everything but doesn't seem to do anything about it .
Bran provides knowledge to decide bits of the plot, but not the knowledge that would rewrite other bits, if the participants had it.
He seemed to know Little Finger's past in detail, but not Jon's. And he's provided no future guidance on the wisdom of trusting Cersei, or the trip north that lost the dragon. No one has asked the obvious questions - should we trust Cersei, or what will happen if we go north?
You will lose a dragon , might have put them all off. The Night King seems much better at this - he seems to have known they would come, dragons would arrive, and he could get one, and use it to move south.

The whole capture a wight plot has to be the worst idea the writers ever came up with.
They lost a dragon to the Night King ,they didn't convince Cersei to aid them ,in fact she did what the dog on the street knew she would do ,betray them.
They wasted a couple of months travelling to the wall and back ,time they could have used to wipe out Cersei and then turn their attentions to the North.

I mean the army of the dead have been travelling towards the wall for the last 7 series ,whats the rush with Jon Snow now ?

johnny_ultimate · 28-08-2017 06:53PM

Y'know, for all the revelations this week, my favourite scene by far was the snow falling on King's Landing. Game of Thrones is so plot-heavy there's rarely time for moments of contemplation or atmospheric storytelling. It may only be 30 seconds, but I found that a more ominous (and poetic!) sequence than the big Wall collapse at the end.

Essien · 28-08-2017 06:57PM

He's Aegon Targaryan,
He's never been a bastard,
He's the heir to the iron throne,
And he's...
Oh my god he's ****ing his aunt!!

arayess · 28-08-2017 07:07PM

i think littlefinger deserved a better ending. All characters who were a pair are coming together for the finale.
I thought littlefinger and varys would have a final showdown.

varys has gone a bit stale too

arayess · 28-08-2017 07:17PM

qyburn has a plan. i just know it

JaMarcusHustle · 28-08-2017 07:20PM

What was the Night King's plan to breach the wall had they not lucked out and ended up with a dragon?

Also, I thought the blue flame was very cheesy

Dyr · 28-08-2017 07:33PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

What was the Night King's plan to breach the wall had they not lucked out and ended up with a dragon?

Also, I thought the blue flame was very cheesy

It was always going to be an ice/calor gas dragon

What's the story with Cersei going on about the highgarden gold? I though they lost it?

Also Euron going deciding off the cuff to put on a show by going "f**k that for a game of cowboys Im off" seems a bit...contrived.

mikefoxo · 28-08-2017 07:34PM

re Tyrion, didn't he talk to Dany about succession, and that she couldn't have children?

False Prophet · 28-08-2017 07:34PM

arayess wrote: »

i think littlefinger deserved a better ending. All characters who were a pair are coming together for the finale.
I thought littlefinger and varys would have a final showdown.

varys has gone a bit stale too

Agree, littlefinger shouldnt have been played that easily. Guess he regrets saving john snow life now

Varys pointless this season, hoping that he becomes relevant next season , surely he will have contacts with the iron bank to discover cersei plan

Topbike77 · 28-08-2017 07:37PM

I think when the hound said to the mountain "You know whats coming for you" he was talking about Arya, he was on her list.

False Prophet · 28-08-2017 07:39PM

Bambi wrote: »

It was always going to be an ice/calor gas dragon

What's the story with Cersei going on about the highgarden gold? I though they lost it?

Also Euron going deciding off the cuff to put on a show by going "f**k that for a game of cowboys Im off" seems a bit...contrived.

Should try watching GOT without a phone:P

Gold was prioritised over food by Jamie/cersei , gold was not destroyed by the dragon.

Euron was not going of the cuff, all part of Cersei plan to fool the other side which she explained later (collect her new army from the mainland)

PressRun · 28-08-2017 07:39PM

Action packed to say the least.
Glad Jamie finally grew a spine and glad the Stark sisters stuck together, and Bran too. It was time for Littlefinger to go. He'd outstayed his welcome and I don't think he offered much to the story going forward.
The relationship between Jon and Daenerys is surely going to be awkward once Sam and Bran tell him the truth? He's the heir to the throne that she believes she's entitled to. I've never really believed Daenerys will ever sit on the throne, but now I'm thinking Jon might not either? It might be the child the conceive from their weird incest?
Didn't know what Tyrion's longing look was supposed to be about.

SimonTemplar · 28-08-2017 07:41PM

I loved Arya's smirk after Sansa addressed Littlefinger, followed by "My sister asked you a question" during his stunned silence.

A lot of poetic justice in Littlefinger's demise: Executed by the Stark sisters. The master manipulator having his throat cut unable to speak anymore.

I liked that scene a lot. Glad to see the end of that character too who has outlived his usefulness to the story since the battle of the bastards.

duffman13 · 28-08-2017 07:47PM

Bambi wrote: »

It was always going to be an ice/calor gas dragon

What's the story with Cersei going on about the highgarden gold? I though they lost it?

Also Euron going deciding off the cuff to put on a show by going "f**k that for a game of cowboys Im off" seems a bit...contrived.

They didn't lose the gold, the Tarlys clearly told Jaime and Bronn it was through the gates of KL before Danys attack. Euron didn't decide off the cuff to leave, it was a premeditated plan to make Cersei look weaker and give them time to get the Golden Company from Essos. Cersei was always going go agree to the truce as it was the only way she wasn't going to be annihilated.

Penn · 28-08-2017 07:47PM

Fantastic episode. Really loved all the little moments between characters who've either never met or haven't seen each other in a long time. Only a few minor complaints:

- Sam and Gilly got into Winterfell (and Sam got up to Bran's room) surprisingly easy considering how hard it was for Arya to get in a few episodes before.
- Theon's fight and how he got his men back on side was a bit cheesy
- Really really wish we'd have seen Jon finding out the truth this season, as the last moment before seeing The Wall come down, rather than just Bran and Sam (possibly Tyrion too, I wasn't sure if that's why he was looking on them weirdly. I'm guessing Bran sent a raven and Tyrion read it)
- And speaking of The Wall, didn't Benjen say there was magic built into The Wall? Is that just gone now that the actual Wall has come down? If so, it seems like the "magic" was simply "a big wall"

But overall very happy with that. Cersei stole the show, and the reveal of her plan (including Euron going to get the Golden Company) was really well done. Her scenes with Tyrion and Jaime were great. And I'm really glad the Arya V Sansa stuff from last week was quite quickly laid to rest.

SimonTemplar · 28-08-2017 07:54PM

I am sick of Theon and Yara. I thought they were going to be disposed of with those Sand Snake Sisters at the beginning of the season but unfortunately not.

I couldn't care less of Theon fully redeems himself and ends up leading the Ironborn or if he gets killed. The Starks, Lannisters, and Daenerys are far more interesting.

Brock Turnpike · 28-08-2017 07:56PM

Ronan14 wrote: »

I think when the hound said to the mountain "You know whats coming for you" he was talking about Arya, he was on her list.

I took it to mean the Hound is going to kill him. Or there is some weird religious **** going on between the Cleganes that they've never mentioned before.

Degag · 28-08-2017 08:08PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I took it to mean the Hound is going to kill him. Or there is some weird religious **** going on between the Cleganes that they've never mentioned before.

Yeah, i took it as being the Hound also. Don't see it being Arya as the Hound said "you've always known" (or words to that effect) Doubt Mountain knows who Arya is.

28-08-2017 08:13PM

arayess wrote: »

i think littlefinger deserved a better ending. All characters who were a pair are coming together for the finale.
I thought littlefinger and varys would have a final showdown.

varys has gone a bit stale too

I think thats been one of the disappointments this season. He appears to have been shunted into the background quite a bit with little much happening with him.

Penn · 28-08-2017 08:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think thats been one of the disappointments this season. He appears to have been shunted into the background quite a bit with little much happening with him.

I loved his scene with Dany earlier this season, and he had a small one with Tyrion a week or two ago, but one of the big Varys moments this season was his conversation with Melisandre, and how she seemed to indicate he'll die.

He was quiet this season, but I think he'll have a big moment next season.

Mousewar · 28-08-2017 08:35PM

I didn't like the mission beyond the wall plotline when it happened as it just didn't make sense. After today's episode it's apparent that it was one big McGuffin designed purely to give the night king a dragon so he could take down the wall and so advance the story.
I don't mind little potholes. I don't overly analyse stuff. But being so lazy in the writing of such a major piece of the plot is very disappointing.
I love GOT and I think the first half of this season was tremendous but the second half sank beneath the ludicrousness of that undefendable decision to risk everything to go north to capture a bag of bones.

"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

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