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Media: Rents at all-time high, supply all-time low - RTE

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    #62
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    At this stage the government should just remove the all the taxation and cost imposed on construction and really let the market run rip.


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    #63
    Licherandkebab
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Licherandkebab


    It's clearly a profitable business. Is there a reason why the State can't build houses and rent them as normal except at a lower price to increase competition? Surely such houses would still be profitable?


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    #64
    michaelp97
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭michaelp97


    Licherandkebab wrote:
    It's clearly a profitable business. Is there a reason why the State can't build houses and rent them as normal except at a lower price to increase competition? Surely such houses would still be profitable?

    I think any more government housing will be built in areas that wouldn't be too pleasing to people looking for that type of housing, people want to live in the city in good areas but then complain about high rent, I'm sorry but if you're looking to live in a nice area you'll end up paying high for it, its pretty much competition if someone makes more money each year than they'll find it easier to survive in the city and its not the lower paid persons fault I know but its just a fact some people can afford to pay higher and judging by the low supply they are but some people are kidding themselves trying to stay in areas they can't afford. I look at Monaco for example, I know its not at all like Dublin in some aspects but I've been to nice and Cannes quite a bit, but the fact is the people with more money get to live in the city and nice areas and people in the lower skilled jobs in Monaco commute from the towns and nice surrounding it


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    #65
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Mama sold a block of apartments beside Tallagh hospital to vulture funds at a price of 100k per unit

    Now hospitals can't get nurses due to the high cost of living. Gov could have purchased apartments and given to nurses on a reduced rent as part of their renumeration and still turn a profit out of the transaction.

    Affordable housing that pays the state



    The solutions are not complicated


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    #66
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Medium to high rise the answer.
    The current situation is a disaster and the capital city needs more homes now. Apartments are just fine for families and single. Billions of people around the world live in apartments!


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    #67
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Licherandkebab wrote: »
    It's clearly a profitable business. Is there a reason why the State can't build houses and rent them as normal except at a lower price to increase competition? Surely such houses would still be profitable?

    Because it wasn't profitable in the past and wouldn't be now.

    Not only are you renting the houses at 40 a week in some cases you also have the council responsible for everything including changing a lightbulb.

    Add in there is 60 million in social housing arrears owed to the government it is most definitely not a profitable option.

    It is a massive drain on finances.


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    #68
    Licherandkebab
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Licherandkebab


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Because it wasn't profitable in the past and wouldn't be now.

    Not only are you renting the houses at 40 a week in some cases you also have the council responsible for everything including changing a lightbulb.

    Add in there is 60 million in social housing arrears owed to the government it is most definitely not a profitable option.

    It is a massive drain on finances.

    Yeah but I don't mean renting to the very low income families, I'm talking about medium earners who pay their rent on time. Just say the State starts charging 1200 a month for a 3 person house, soon private landlords would have to drop their rent.

    But then again, a lot of things work in theory.


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    #69
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Mama sold a block of apartments beside Tallagh hospital to vulture funds at a price of 100k per unit

    Now hospitals can't get nurses due to the high cost of living. Gov could have purchased apartments and given to nurses on a reduced rent as part of their renumeration and still turn a profit out of the transaction.

    Affordable housing that pays the state



    The solutions are not complicated

    That apartment block could have ended Dublins housing crisis it's been used so many times at this stage.
    Unless those apartments were empty at the time of sale and still empty, the state owning them would have little to no effect on the supply side.


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    #70
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    maninasia wrote: »
    Medium to high rise the answer.
    The current situation is a disaster and the capital city needs more homes now. Apartments are just fine for families and single. Billions of people around the world live in apartments!
    I'm all for apartment living but does it really have to be high rise? This is what high rise looks like:

    High-Rise-Apartments.jpg

    I think medium/low rise is most appropriate for a medium-sized city like Dublin:

    d1883144665999ffc22fa1a98d97f95b--window-wall-design-awards.jpg


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    #71
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Licherandkebab wrote: »
    Yeah but I don't mean renting to the very low income families, I'm talking about medium earners who pay their rent on time. Just say the State starts charging 1200 a month for a 3 person house, soon private landlords would have to drop their rent.

    But then again, a lot of things work in theory.

    You've answered your own question there. Why would the government want rents to fall?


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    #72
    michaelp97
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭michaelp97


    Macha wrote:
    I think medium/low rise is most appropriate for a medium-sized city like Dublin:


    I agree with that for the time being but feel eventually we will have to go higher, granted I don't want the while city to be covered by them as I like historic buildings around the city but if you were to choose and area in the city to put high rises where would you put them?


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    #73
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    michaelp97 wrote: »
    I agree with that for the time being but feel eventually we will have to go higher, granted I don't want the while city to be covered by them as I like historic buildings around the city but if you were to choose and area in the city to put high rises where would you put them?

    Far away from Dublin city center anyway.
    Possibly as far as Kildare or louth.

    Have you ever been to a city that has a lovely low rise skyline like dublin and then gets surrounded by towering monstrosities.
    It's disgusting.
    Think any ballymun in the sun destination.
    And remember, we won't have sexy shiny looking Glass buildings here, they will be the cheapest facade and building you can imagine. Otherwise unit prices will be too high for anyone to afford and they will remain empty.


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    #74
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    I cannot see any way this situation can improve. Too few properties, reluctant landlords, botched legislation, no protection for decent landlords against errant tenants. As property prices continue to rise, more landlords will cash in on properties by selling them therefore reducing supply even further.

    I've been a property owner/landlord for 20 years. When prices were cheap in 2009-10 I bought apartments in anticipation of kids going to third level colleges, they have not been empty one day I have owned them, but the day the last guy graduates, they will be sold. We are currently moving out of our family home, it's a large 5 bed in a nice area, we had planned to rent it for a while then sell, now it is going on Airbnb for short lets. Nothing could entice me to rent to a long term tenant, it's now too risky and too much hassle. That is 5 properties which will not be rented because of the mess our politicians made of the situation, there must be hundreds or thousands of owners who feel the same.


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    #75
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    michaelp97 wrote: »
    where would you put them?

    Anywhere where there is a market demand for them.

    Artificially restricting the market is contributing to supply issues.

    If there are buyers for 50 high-rise flats in Merrion Square, then let a willing developer build 50 high rise flats ffs.


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    #76
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Macha wrote: »
    I think medium/low rise is most appropriate for a medium-sized city like Dublin:

    That's no different in size to whats currently allowed. So you're proposing no change in height regs?


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    #77
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    jamesthepeach wrote: »
    Far away from Dublin city center anyway.
    Possibly as far as Kildare or louth.

    Have you ever been to a city that has a lovely low rise skyline like dublin and then gets surrounded by towering monstrosities.
    It's disgusting.
    Think any ballymun in the sun destination.
    And remember, we won't have sexy shiny looking Glass buildings here, they will be the cheapest facade and building you can imagine. Otherwise unit prices will be too high for anyone to afford and they will remain empty.

    Why build a heap of supply in areas where people don't want to live. The supply needs to go into the city, not out in the sticks.


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    #78
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    michaelp97 wrote: »
    I agree with that for the time being but feel eventually we will have to go higher, granted I don't want the while city to be covered by them as I like historic buildings around the city but if you were to choose and area in the city to put high rises where would you put them?
    Sure, maybe we need some of them eventually but quite honestly, eventually I would love to tear down some of the god-awful lego-house housing estates that carpet Dublin County and build some proper low-rise and mid-rise apartments with decent transport links and access to good quality local amenities like parks, etc.

    THAT is the only way we will get people out of houses and into apartments, which is ultimately what is needed to not only improve quality of life (no sitting on the M50 for hours) and to increase supply.
    CruelCoin wrote: »
    That's no different in size to whats currently allowed. So you're proposing no change in height regs?
    No, I don't see the problem as height regs. I see the problem as people still building houses instead of apartments and not building good quality apartments with storage etc in areas with decent transport links and access to good quality local amenities.

    Edit: Decent urban developments needs to be matched with an overhaul of the renting laws in Ireland to make it more attractive for both landlords and renters. This also doesn't have to be invented from scratch. Go to almost any other EU coutnry - Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark. Copy their laws. If you're a crap student, copy the good ones.


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    #79
    michaelp97
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭michaelp97


    Everly Billions Turkey wrote:
    Why build a heap of supply in areas where people don't want to live. The supply needs to go into the city, not out in the sticks.


    Walking through and living near ballsbridge I see that the development number 1 ballsbridge or what it's called will be a lovely looking modern glass style building with offices and apartments and amenities etc, I wouldn't have too much against though types of buildings but I know it's not realistic for the whole city as that is in one of the wealthiest spots in the country but I don't think there will be a lack of demand for it


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    #80
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Villa05


    quadrifoglio verde wrote:
    That apartment block could have ended Dublins housing crisis it's been used so many times at this stage. Unless those apartments were empty at the time of sale and still empty, the state owning them would have little to no effect on the supply side.

    You missed the point. It's all about choices and answering the myth that Gov have no money.

    There are smart solutions but Gov seem to think that Bank balance sheets are more important than providing a roof over people's heads at an affordable price.


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    #81
    michaelp97
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭michaelp97


    Villa05 wrote:
    There are smart solutions but Gov seem to think that Bank balance sheets are more important than providing a roof over people's heads at an affordable price.


    I'd agree with that to a certain extent, what would you say an affordable price would be just so I understand better? I'm sure housing could be built in places like Adamstown etc and could be affordable but if you want to live in the city you're going to be paying a higher price and there's people that can afford to pay that price where as someone else may not earn as much so have to take the hit and maybe commute,


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    #82
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,415 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Villa05 wrote: »
    You missed the point. It's all about choices and answering the myth that Gov have no money.

    There are smart solutions but Gov seem to think that Bank balance sheets are more important than providing a roof over people's heads at an affordable price.

    Well the money aspect is fairly important, the government doesn't have limitless funds.

    If they want to build housing they'll have to either cut funding somewhere else or increase taxes.


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    #83
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Villa05


    michaelp97 wrote:
    I'd agree with that to a certain extent, what would you say an affordable price would be just so I understand better?,

    I believe circa 30% of income is considered the limit for affordability

    Now considering the state controls many of the inputs/costs into construction development it would not take a genius to solve the housing crisis


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    #84
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    Why build a heap of supply in areas where people don't want to live. The supply needs to go into the city, not out in the sticks.

    It's not going to happen in the city. For so many reasons it's just Its going to happen.


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    #85
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Villa05 wrote: »
    You missed the point. It's all about choices and answering the myth that Gov have no money.

    There are smart solutions but Gov seem to think that Bank balance sheets are more important than providing a roof over people's heads at an affordable price.

    Where is this money?
    Currently we've demands for investment in dart underground, metro north, a motorway from cork to limerick.
    We need a few billion over the next few years to upgrade parts of our water infrastructure.
    We need money to hire more Frontline nurses, doctors, gardai and teachers.
    Then somewhere we need to find money to build social and affordable housing.
    Then we need to find money to increase public sector wages
    Finally we've an aging population that we have promised pensions too yet haven't decided how we're going to fund these pensions.

    I'd love to know where all that money is going to come from.


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    #86
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    michaelp97 wrote: »
    Walking through and living near ballsbridge I see that the development number 1 ballsbridge or what it's called will be a lovely looking modern glass style building with offices and apartments and amenities etc, I wouldn't have too much against though types of buildings but I know it's not realistic for the whole city as that is in one of the wealthiest spots in the country but I don't think there will be a lack of demand for it

    And how many people can afford an apartment in that nice building you are talking about.
    The problem is still one of cost and people not being willing or able to pay that cost.


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    #87
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Villa05 wrote: »
    I believe circa 30% of income is considered the limit for affordability

    Now considering the state controls many of the inputs/costs into construction development it would not take a genius to solve the housing crisis

    The state have just signed off on a sectoral pay agreement giving construction workers a 10% statutory increase in pay (Frances Fitzgerald). That doesn't really support keeping a lid on costs...........


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    #88
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    jamesthepeach wrote: »
    It's not going to happen in the city. For so many reasons it's just Its going to happen.

    While I agree that there are some serious roadblocks to development in the city (DCC bring chief among them), these could be resolved with a bit of political will. The real problem is that there is absolutely no will to do anything about it.

    The longer this goes on the more I'm convinced that fg just don't give a toss. They're fanatic obsession with the free market is really damaging the social and economic future of the country. We are already hearing about companies being put off Dublin by the cost and lack of accommodation. As for those of us who are stuck here, we're being pushed out of the city and into massive commutes on creaking, and in some cases broken, public transport. It's a total mess.


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    #89
    michaelp97
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭michaelp97


    jamesthepeach wrote:
    And how many people can afford an apartment in that nice building you are talking about. The problem is still one of cost and people not being willing or able to pay that cost.

    I know not many people would be able to afford it because of the area but my point is that places that cost a bomb will still be filled because certain people can afford it and are willing to pay it, we are one of the most expensive countries in Europe and high costs come with it, it doesn't help that almost everything is focused on Dublin but that's the way it is people with more purchasing power and bigger incomes want to sometimes live in the same areas you want to


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    #90
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

    The longer this goes on the more I'm convinced that fg just don't give a toss. They're fanatic obsession with the free market is really damaging the social and economic future of the country. We are already hearing about companies being put off Dublin by the cost and lack of accommodation. As for those of us who are stuck here, we're being pushed out of the city and into massive commutes on creaking, and in some cases broken, public transport. It's a total mess.

    Obsession with Free market? Ha hah ha. I assume that's a joke?

    FG have brought in the most ridiculous anti-free market measures ever seen in a generation with these ridiculous 4% rent caps and hoiking rental taxation up to the eyeballs. Why does a flat in a city need to pay PRSI I ask you? It's never going to be in a hospital.

    Landlords are either selling up, going on air BnB, or "moving back in" to try to reset their rents to market rate, where they had been giving a long term tenant a discount previously.

    Tenants are clambouring all over eachother to fight for the remaining scraps, offering landlords off the record cash to get in. Black market created.

    Here is the political strategy at the moment, as driven by the independent lefties: Let's completely screw over the market supplier of rental properties - the landlord, because ??? "evil landlord". ???

    Oh dearie me, all the property for rent is gone now. Well blow me down, there's a surprise.


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    #91
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    michaelp97 wrote: »
    I know not many people would be able to afford it because of the area but my point is that places that cost a bomb will still be filled because certain people can afford it and are willing to pay it, we are one of the most expensive countries in Europe and high costs come with it, it doesn't help that almost everything is focused on Dublin but that's the way it is people with more purchasing power and bigger incomes want to sometimes live in the same areas you want to


    But building apartments that only rich people can buy is not going to solve the housing crisis.


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