Public Service at it's most deluded on Hawkins House

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 12:43am #1

Most ugly, uncomfortable, kip of a building in Ireland. They want to demolish but it has been delayed due to curious misgivings by the civil service.

Public servants who were looking to avoid some trauma...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/department-of-health-to-exit-hawkins-house-within-months-1.3193719

The good news on what they were seeking.

Engagement with staff about the move is ongoing, she says, but no “disturbance money” will be paid.

The Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants wrote to the department last May expressing concern about the proposed working environment after staff transfer. It argued the new office would resemble a “call centre” with staff suffering “distraction and interruption” by being grouped in clusters of six and eight persons.

:eek: Open plan offices, fuuuck! :eek::eek:

Your Face · 22-08-2017 1:34am

I'm glad I can read the papers and not be outraged by every article
I read.

somefeen · 22-08-2017 1:36am

Bit of a non story.

People have it cushy in one building with private offices and don't wanna be put in an open plan one.

They're hardly out protesting demanding the move be stopped etc. They just expressed some legitimate concerns about being in an open plan office.

Edit: Actually not just 'a bit' of a non story, its a pure non story. Crisp, filtered, triple distilled non story with the seal of approval and the certified providence from La Bollouex region high in the French alps. Lovingly crafted by the Les sensationaliste monks for over 200 years.

Jesus Wept · 22-08-2017 1:46am

I like it.

ChikiChiki · 22-08-2017 2:26am

Just enforce the change and stop mollycoddling the public service. They work off taxpayer money and we ought to be getting the best value for our money. Fcuk em. Its basically senior civilservants giving out that they can't get away with reading the Indo/IT every morning in their offices during working hours (it happens) and they have to actually be out in the open and seen to be working.

Where efficiencies and savings are found it should be non questionable. Enforce the changes.

Victor · 22-08-2017 2:54am

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Just enforce the change and stop mollycoddling the public service. They work off taxpayer money and we ought to be getting the best value for our money. Fcuk em. Its basically senior civilservants giving out that they can't get away with reading the Indo/IT every morning in their offices during working hours (it happens) and they have to actually be out in the open and seen to be working.

Where efficiencies and savings are found it should be non questionable. Enforce the changes.

The flip side is when you are trying to do something complicated and you have to hear everyone else's conversations / phone calls at the same time.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 3:23am

Private sector workers (the ones who generate the tax to pay public servants) have put up with that and worse for how long Victor?

They tried a stroke for extra money like the DART drivers who wanted more money for pressing extra buttons on new trains.

exaisle · 22-08-2017 3:40am

Victor wrote: »

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Just enforce the change and stop mollycoddling the public service. They work off taxpayer money and we ought to be getting the best value for our money. Fcuk em. Its basically senior civilservants giving out that they can't get away with reading the Indo/IT every morning in their offices during working hours (it happens) and they have to actually be out in the open and seen to be working.

Where efficiencies and savings are found it should be non questionable. Enforce the changes.

The flip side is when you are trying to do something complicated and you have to hear everyone else's conversations / phone calls at the same time.

I'm assuming you're a public servant, Victor.....ðŸ˜Š

Ever hear of noise cancelling earphones/headsets?

Are Am Eye · 22-08-2017 3:50am

exaisle wrote: »

I'm assuming you're a public servant, Victor.....ðŸ˜Š

Ever hear of noise cancelling earphones/headsets?

Im not sure kermit's generating enough economic activity to pay for those

Victor · 22-08-2017 4:54am

exaisle wrote: »

I'm assuming you're a public servant, Victor.....&#55357;&#56842;

I've never been a state employee at any level.

The_Valeyard · 22-08-2017 5:37am

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Just enforce the change and stop mollycoddling the public service. They work off taxpayer money and we ought to be getting the best value for our money. Fcuk em. Its basically senior civilservants giving out that they can't get away with reading the Indo/IT every morning in their offices during working hours (it happens) and they have to actually be out in the open and seen to be working.

Where efficiencies and savings are found it should be non questionable. Enforce the changes.

Suppose we could whip them while your at it, or put the moaners in the coal mines.

SnakePlissken · 22-08-2017 7:18am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Private sector workers (the ones who generate the tax to pay public servants) .

Public servants don't pay tax now? No wonder every nurse and gardai I know are swilling the expensive stuff in their mansions.... bastards the lot of em.

Jobs OXO · 22-08-2017 7:21am

Victor wrote: »

The flip side is when you are trying to do something complicated and you have to hear everyone else's conversations / phone calls at the same time.

Ha ! The Public Sector/Civil Service doing something complicated ?? On a good day they can count their fingers and toes and get within 2 of the correct total !

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 7:31am

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Public servants don't pay tax now?

They do, but it is not adding to the exchequer. It's recycled from the private sector. Nothing extra is added to the country's finances in tax through public sector workers.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 7:32am

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Ha ! The Public Sector/Civil Service doing something complicated ?? On a good day they can count their fingers and toes and get within 2 of the correct total !

About to nail him on that slip. You got there first :pac::cool:

Darkglasses · 22-08-2017 7:34am

Yes, let's ensure that we spend the absolute minimum possible on the public service with no regard to the consequences. It's not like there has been any reason to question that logic lately.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 7:36am

Darkglasses wrote: »

Yes, let's ensure that we spend the absolute minimum possible on the public service with no regard to the consequences.

Yes and privatise as much as possible. Best value and best results.

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-08-2017 7:39am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes and privatise as much as possible. Best value and best results.

Any excuse for you to start moaning about the outsourcing of private jobs to India:eek:

RobbieTheRobber · 22-08-2017 7:40am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They do, but it is not adding to the exchequer. It's recycled from the private sector. Nothing extra is added to the country's finances in tax through public sector workers.

Are you trying to imply there is no value to the state attached to the services they provide?

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 7:50am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Are you trying to imply there is no value to the state attached to the services they provide?

There is no extra direct monetary benefit. They moan that they "pay tax" - the tax they pay comes from the tax paid by private sector workers.

Ergo no net benefit to exchequer. It's a loss.

There is extraneous benefits if, for example, they save a life and thus they can contribute but other than that no benefit.

Privatisation would lead to harder workers, better hospitals, schools, social welfare services etc and get more for taxpayers.

RobbieTheRobber · 22-08-2017 7:52am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is no extra direct monetary benefit. They moan that they "pay tax" - the tax they pay comes from the tax paid by private sector workers.

Ergo no net benefit to exchequer. It's a loss.

There is extraneous benefits if, for example, they save a life and thus they can contribute but other than that no benefit.

Privatisation would lead to harder workers, better hospitals and more for taxpayers.

Ok then I'll ask again.
Are you trying to imply the services civil and public servants provide for the state are of no value to its tax paying citizens?

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 7:53am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ok then I'll ask again.
Are you trying to imply the services civil and public servants provide for the state are of no value to its tax paying citizens?

Yes.

Jobs OXO · 22-08-2017 7:54am

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ok then I'll ask again.
Are you trying to imply the services civil and public servants provide for the state are of no value to its tax paying citizens?

Yes ! Now you have it !

RobbieTheRobber · 22-08-2017 7:54am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes.

:D:D:D:D:D

Now I know not to bother continuing any discussion with you.

Thanks

beauf · 22-08-2017 7:55am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes and privatise as much as possible. Best value and best results.

They privatised the housing market.

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-08-2017 7:57am

beauf wrote: »

They privatised the housing market.

Dont forget the bins...I'm almost sure Kermi would have had a moan about that:D

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 7:58am

beauf wrote: »

They privatised the housing market.

And? Those who were wreckless and speculated were suitably punished, no?

The market is the best tool for rectifying problems.

Barry Badrinath · 22-08-2017 8:05am

What are you going to do about it OP?

Nothing....thats right, nothing.

How can you be SO outraged over anything at 0900 in the morning? Were you holding onto the public sector rant for a week before something popped up in the news?

Anyway, do something about it instead of being a moany Mary.

relax carry on · 22-08-2017 8:05am

Yes, a public sector/private sector bashing tread. We haven't had one of these in ages.
I'm torn as to who to be outraged at. As a civil servant who apparently doesn't pay tax, doesn't do any complex work and is of no value to the state and our tax generating/paying citizens; do I have to be outraged at myself? So confused, please help.

Jobs OXO · 22-08-2017 8:09am

relax carry on wrote: »

Yes, a public sector/private sector bashing tread. We haven't had one of these in ages.
I'm torn as to who to be outraged at. As a civil servant who apparently doesn't pay tax, doesn't do any complex work and is of no value to the state and our tax generating/paying citizens; do I have to be outraged at myself? So confused, please help.

Yeah you could do that. Perhaps get a private sector job that generates wealth and taxes maybe ?

Kermit.de.frog · 22-08-2017 8:12am

relax carry on wrote: »

Yes, a public sector/private sector bashing tread. We haven't had one of these in ages.
I'm torn as to who to be outraged at. As a civil servant who apparently doesn't pay tax, doesn't do any complex work and is of no value to the state and our tax generating/paying citizens; do I have to be outraged at myself? So confused, please help.

Resign?

Barry Badrinath · 22-08-2017 8:19am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Resign?

Make him resign.

"200 Likes = 1 Public Sector Resignation"

:rolleyes:

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-08-2017 8:21am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Resign?

You really will go to any length to have a moan...next thing is we'd see a moan about the poster not working and scrounging off those hard working, tax paying private sector workers and getting everything for FREEEEEEEEE.

witchgirl26 · 22-08-2017 8:21am

In fairness I worked in a private company who were changing us from one building to another and there were months of consultations with teams as we were going from a small scale open plan to a much larger open plan space. There were legitimate concerns about privacy and interruption. For example, I work with quite confidential information and my team had to placed away from others so conversations couldn't be overheard and with no access path behind our desks so screens couldn't be seen. That alone took about 5-6 weeks of planning and we were just 1 team out of about 15.

There's a lot to get outraged about at 9am but how a staff move that doesn't affect you personally is progressing is possibly a waste of that outrage.

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-08-2017 8:26am

witchgirl26 wrote: »

In fairness I worked in a private company who were changing us from one building to another and there were months of consultations with teams as we were going from a small scale open plan to a much larger open plan space. There were legitimate concerns about privacy and interruption. For example, I work with quite confidential information and my team had to placed away from others so conversations couldn't be overheard and with no access path behind our desks so screens couldn't be seen. That alone took about 5-6 weeks of planning and we were just 1 team out of about 15.

There's a lot to get outraged about at 9am but how a staff move that doesn't affect you personally is progressing is possibly a waste of that outrage.

Try moving 500 people with a lot of confidential work going on. Not to mention speeches to be written inside an hour with innumerable interruptions in an open plan to assist in their writing.

Cuddlesworth · 22-08-2017 8:33am

witchgirl26 wrote: »

In fairness I worked in a private company who were changing us from one building to another and there were months of consultations with teams as we were going from a small scale open plan to a much larger open plan space. There were legitimate concerns about privacy and interruption. For example, I work with quite confidential information and my team had to placed away from others so conversations couldn't be overheard and with no access path behind our desks so screens couldn't be seen. That alone took about 5-6 weeks of planning and we were just 1 team out of about 15.

There's a lot to get outraged about at 9am but how a staff move that doesn't affect you personally is progressing is possibly a waste of that outrage.

Fair points and we had a similar experience in the private sector, we make a lot of noise for a small team so we ended up in a private room eventually. And I have no doubt similar conversations are going on with this office move, with some people who are just complaining and others who have genuine concerns.

The difference between the two situations is that the question of "paid compensation" has never come up in negotiations when presented with a office or desk move, when those locations are within reasonable commuting difference to each other.

And the ongoing costs and benefits of open plan offices compared to private spaces are significant to most companies. Which is why its rare outside of specific fields to find them anymore.

tigger123 · 22-08-2017 8:54am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And? Those who were wreckless and speculated were suitably punished, no?

The market is the best tool for rectifying problems.

Not really sure if the current housing crisis is the best example of a healthy and functioning free market economy.

The invisible hand of the market has its hand stuck squarely up the country's backside.

beauf · 22-08-2017 9:25am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And? Those who were wreckless and speculated were suitably punished, no?

The market is the best tool for rectifying problems.

You might of missed the bit of about the housing crisis. The worst in the history of the state.

ForstalDave · 22-08-2017 9:28am

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Ha ! The Public Sector/Civil Service doing something complicated ?? On a good day they can count their fingers and toes and get within 2 of the correct total !

Some of the people in hawkins house do work very hard and care about their job (mainly social workers).

Of course others are pure lazy and will complain about anyone and anything they can, all the while avoiding doing anything that involves any work at all

*i have worked there as long ago as a private sector worker not public

WoollyRedHat · 22-08-2017 9:34am

I say, wouldn't it be better if we just disbanded the entire public service altogether; shoot state employees one by one?

At the very least we won't have the never ending Private vs. Public Sector arguments or moans from certain people at the smallest 'injustices'. And it will make a nice day out.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Private sector workers (the ones who generate the tax to pay public servants) have put up with that and worse for how long Victor?

They tried a stroke for extra money like the DART drivers who wanted more money for pressing extra buttons on new trains.

Sorry to derail, but what about Luas drivers Kermit? They did the same thing before it was cool to do so.. choo choo.

Wossack · 22-08-2017 9:39am

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I say, wouldn't it be better if we just disbanded the entire public service altogether; shoot state employees one by one?

At the very least we won't have the never ending Private vs. Public Sector arguments or moans from certain people at the smallest 'injustices'. And it will make a nice day out.

I think you'd need a public sector body to manage such an endeavour

Kimbot · 22-08-2017 9:53am

Wossack wrote: »

I think you'd need a public sector body to manage such an endeavour

Well i can count to 10 using both my hands. I think I should take the lead on this

Wossack · 22-08-2017 9:55am

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well i can count to 10 using both my hands. I think I should take the lead on this

at the coal face perhaps, you sound over qualified for management

WoollyRedHat · 22-08-2017 10:07am

Wossack wrote: »

I think you'd need a public sector body to manage such an endeavour

And to get rid of all the public sector bodies no doubt.

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well i can count to 10 using both my hands. I think I should take the lead on this

We just need to lure them all with the promise of free food and then shoot them. Please arrange.

nice_guy80 · 22-08-2017 10:18am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Public servants don't pay tax now?

They do, but it is not adding to the exchequer. It's recycled from the private sector. Nothing extra is added to the country's finances in tax through public sector workers.

why the need for private sector workers to bash public sector?
everyone has the opportunity to apply for jobs in the public sector

I'm sure if a private sector company was moving building there'd be issues too.

ChikiChiki · 22-08-2017 12:45pm

Victor wrote: »

The flip side is when you are trying to do something complicated and you have to hear everyone else's conversations / phone calls at the same time.

Laptops instead of desktops, loads of free meeting pods, noise negating headsets, problem solved.

Look, the public sector has been bloated and inefficient for years. Any streamlining of operations are most welcome provided some value is added back to the taxpayer.

Hector Bellend · 22-08-2017 12:47pm

Mulligans across the street though.

I'd look at Hawkins house all day if it means enjoying the few pints in there

Darkglasses · 22-08-2017 12:50pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Laptops instead of desktops, loads of free meeting pods, noise negating headsets, problem solved.

Look, the public sector has been bloated and inefficient for years. Any streamlining of operations are most welcome.

Careful though, remember you aren't allowed to spend money, no matter how sensible it would be.

22-08-2017 12:59pm

6.5 Million to rent a year would it not be more beneficial for them to buy a building or develop one.

astrofool · 22-08-2017 1:20pm

To be fair, the Apple Employees are complaining about the same thing, to the extent that the manager told the workspace design people to f' off and give him his own building:
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2017/08/08/apple-park-employees-floor-plan-hq-spaceship-aapl.html

Google and Facebook are stepping back from their open plan ideals, amazingly, they found that high paid tech workers didn't enjoy being arranged the same way as a Dickensian workshop.

Spider Web · 22-08-2017 8:28pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

About to nail him on that slip. You got there first :pac::cool:

I think a lot of clerical public sector jobs should be privatised/outsourced, but having a go at the workers themselves in the above manner - what age are you?

Public Service at it's most deluded on Hawkins House

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