Back to school costs

Akrasia · 19-08-2017 8:35am

mahamageehad wrote: »

To be fair, a family friend has a kid starting secondary in a few weeks in Kilkenny.
All kids were told that they had to cough up €600 for a tablet that would be used as their books for the year. Now, to be fair, I think that will last the entire length of school but it's still a big first expense.

There's no way that tablet will last 5 or 6 years without getting lost/stolen/broken or the battery degrading to the point where it isn't functional anymore.

Corkgirl18 · 19-08-2017 8:58am

I wouldn't really use a book when I'm teaching - I'd rely more on my own notes and PowerPoints and use the book as a reference point.

I've been told in the past (in different schools) that we need to put the subject book on the booklist anyway as parents would complain that their child couldn't learn anything if they didn't have a textbook. You can't win apparently.

freshpopcorn · 19-08-2017 9:03am

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

I wouldn't really use a book when I'm teaching - I'd rely more on my own notes and PowerPoints and use the book as a reference point.

I've been told in the past (in different schools) that we need to put the subject book on the booklist anyway as parents would complain that their child couldn't learn anything if they didn't have a textbook. You can't win apparently.

I know a teacher and she tried to cut down on non essential books. Parents still kicked up saying that they should be more books on the book list. Teachers can't win!

freshpopcorn · 19-08-2017 9:05am

Somebody might be able to clear this up for me.
Is it true that if a school has an Ipad and the parent pay €600 for it that every year they have to pay about €100 to download the books/etc?

murt101 · 19-08-2017 9:16am

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

I've been told in the past (in different schools) that we need to put the subject book on the booklist anyway as parents would complain that their child couldn't learn anything if they didn't have a textbook. You can't win apparently.

In these instances I really wish the school management would grow a pair. It's often a few loud parents who start moaning about everything...if the school was really bothered maybe they should poll all the parents rather than listening to the loudest. I'd prefer my kids not to rely heavily on a single book... I'd rather their minds were opened to different points of view etc...

diomed · 19-08-2017 9:32am

Buying the new back-to-school SUV ups the cost a bit.
And the designer pyjamas.

flower tattoo · 19-08-2017 9:42am

mahamageehad wrote: »

To be fair, a family friend has a kid starting secondary in a few weeks in Kilkenny.
All kids were told that they had to cough up €600 for a tablet that would be used as their books for the year. Now, to be fair, I think that will last the entire length of school but it's still a big first expense.

The uniform came in at just over €300 - parents were informed by letter that the uniforms had to be "official" ones purchased in 1 or 2 specified local shops. That was for the skirt, jumper, 2 blouses and gym gear. There was a "optional" school jacket for another €70 that they didn't take.

That's all before things like voluntary contributions, lunch boxes, stationary, school bag etc. Now, I know that the next kid will be less expensive when they get to that school in 2 years as there'll be hand-me-downs, but it's still a lot higher than I would have expected.

Just to clarify as my daughter is in this school
The tablet only lasts 3,years
Leaving cert is back to books
And the tablet won't be able be passed to the second child as the first will still be using it
You'd be very lucky to pass any clothes down either as they fall apart!

Meeoow · 19-08-2017 9:56am

My biggest expense every year are books. First year in secondary was shocking. They do loads of subjects before they whittle down for LC.
But every year I tried my best to buy used books and sell hers.
Very few people want to buy used books, there is a snobbery about them.
I have a few books here that I put up for sale on local Facebook pages. Nobody contacted me.
I'll probably give them into the school to use as spares.
A girl I know used to complain every year about costs even though she never worked and always got the back to school grant. Her kids school had book rental and they got free lunches, and the allowance more than covered her costs.
I was lucky if I got a new pack of shirts every year nevermind a full uniform.

flower tattoo · 19-08-2017 10:18am

I was given 2 LC maths workbooks by a friend whose daughter hadn't used them, the teacher photocopied all the pages and handed them out
That would actually make me more cross than buying the books - buying them nd then not using them!!

Prickly Pete · 19-08-2017 11:14am

Permabear wrote: »

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We'd be much better off having teachers being paid a pittance. Thats the way to motivate them and get intelligent individuals wanting to be teachers.

Prickly Pete · 19-08-2017 11:16am

Radio_Fan_738 wrote: »

Homeschooling is the way to go, public schools exist to brainwash children into becoming compliant sheep.

Agree , I mean it's much better for parents to brainwash their children.

Permabear · 19-08-2017 12:52pm

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Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 20-08-2017 3:31pm

Permabear wrote: »

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A lot of teachers and parents are absolutely obsessed with this kind of nonsense though.

iguana · 20-08-2017 4:23pm

anna080 wrote: »

Cockapoo. Sure you could be teaching your kid any old sh!te at home. You're also depriving them of the opportunity to flourish socially and engage with children their age. It's not just formal education that helps children intellectually develop, there are so many other factors that a regulated system like school can include which benefits a growing child far more than sitting at home can.

That's crap actually. Pretty much every study ever done on homeschooling shows that homeschooled children are, on average, several years ahead of their peers academically. Have significantly better social skills and a more rounded and varied range of experiences. It may be called homeschooling, but that's a misnomer. It's actually out-in-the-worldschooling.

Dinarius · 20-08-2017 4:34pm

I started a thread in the Education forum on IPads and books. Didn't get a response. So, at the risk of repeating myself;

Someone I know has been told that they have to buy hard copy books as well as an iPad with downloaded copies of the same books.

Apparently, at the end of the year, the downloaded copies of the books are wiped and have to be repurchased for her younger children. They cannot be passed on like the hard copies.

Is this really the case?

If so, could she not buy a Kindle and download the books to that and keep them?

Please tell me she's mistaken.

Thanks.

D.

The_Valeyard · 20-08-2017 4:34pm

iguana wrote: »

That's crap actually. Pretty much every study ever done on homeschooling shows that homeschooled children are, on average, several years ahead of their peers academically. Have significantly better social skills and a more rounded and varied range of experiences. It may be called homeschooling, but that's a misnomer. It's actually out-in-the-worldschooling.

Evidence?

blueser · 20-08-2017 4:38pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

When I was a youngfella (back in the 90's) the most of the back to school spending was on stationary and books with torn covers. Perhaps a new lunch box but if I gathered more than £10 of "inky biros", pencils and pencil cases I'd be made put some back

I went to school in Holland for a short while and you didn't even have to buy books there. They were all supplied by the school.

But what happened since the 90's? A brand new Core i7 laptop and several 100 worth of clothing seems to be the run of the mill now. What happens these days if you attempt to send a youngster to school with a fistfull of inky biros and some books with torn covers?

Are the €1,000+ cost per child of sending them back to school genuine or is everyone just trying to outdo each other?

I went to school in England and, apart from the school uniform (tie, uncrested jumper, and black trousers), you didn't pay for a thing re. books. pens, etc etc). Why isn't it the responsibility of the dept of education to supply these items here?

freshpopcorn · 20-08-2017 4:41pm

blueser wrote: »

I went to school in England and, apart from the school uniform (tie, uncrested jumper, and black trousers), you didn't pay for a thing re. books. pens, etc etc). Why isn't it the responsibility of the dept of education to supply these items here?

How used the whole pen thing work?
I used go through several in a week.

meeeeh · 20-08-2017 5:41pm

iguana wrote: »

That's crap actually. Pretty much every study ever done on homeschooling shows that homeschooled children are, on average, several years ahead of their peers academically. Have significantly better social skills and a more rounded and varied range of experiences. It may be called homeschooling, but that's a misnomer. It's actually out-in-the-worldschooling.

It would be interesting to see those studies and how many take into account social or economic background of parents and their education. How do academic results of homeschooled kids compare to kids in private schools?

Another problem is that homeschooling is not homogeneous. State system is roughly the same everywhere, what is the variance inside studied homeschooled methods? Are we talking about structured or unstructured homeschooling, are there fees involved. I googled for research on the subject and a lot of top results were questions about how representative research on the subject is. It would be interesting if you could post links to some studies you mentioned. Also were comparisons made globally or for example in USA which are not renowned for high quality school system. What are results like in Ireland or Finland for example.

erica74 · 20-08-2017 5:53pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Exactly, the parents need to band together, you're all in the same boat. I don't know why any parent would be happy to be paying all this extra money for a crest on a jumper etc, even if they have the money, it could be going into other things. A crest on your jumper and a picture on your lunchbox means shag all.

erica74 · 20-08-2017 5:53pm

flower tattoo wrote: »

Just to clarify as my daughter is in this school
The tablet only lasts 3,years
Leaving cert is back to books
And the tablet won't be able be passed to the second child as the first will still be using it
You'd be very lucky to pass any clothes down either as they fall apart!

A €300 uniform falls apart?

freshpopcorn · 20-08-2017 5:58pm

erica74 wrote: »

A €300 uniform falls apart?

I suppose after wearing for something for a few years it does go a bit shabby!

beauf · 20-08-2017 6:30pm

Dinarius wrote: »

I started a thread in the Education forum on IPads and books. Didn't get a response. So, at the risk of repeating myself;

Someone I know has been told that they have to buy hard copy books as well as an iPad with downloaded copies of the same books.

Apparently, at the end of the year, the downloaded copies of the books are wiped and have to be repurchased for her younger children. They cannot be passed on like the hard copies.

Is this really the case?

If so, could she not buy a Kindle and download the books to that and keep them?

Please tell me she's mistaken.

Thanks.

D.

I would be interested in hearing more detail about this. Thus far my only experience is the eBooks. The cost of eBooks is the Same as the paper copy. So when you buy one you get the other. In one way its handy because you can keep the paper books say at school but use the ebook version at home, so you don't have to carry them. But the access to the ebook is via a code in the book. I dunno how you re-use that if you pass the book on. As its registered to a single email account. For my kids account it meant registering for 3 different portals. I assume in theory you could register a generic email for all ebooks and get all kids to use the same code. But you couldn't then pass it on to someone outside your family. I assume the iPad package would be similar in that it would be registered to one user, one email as the iPad are not mutli user devices. The system I saw can only be used for schoolwork. You can't use that iPad for anything else.

Again I don't the details, I've only had very limited experience with the whole thing.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 20-08-2017 6:40pm

My 2 cousins are being homeschooled in the states and they're obnoxious socially awkward little sh1ts. I think interacting with kids their own age instead of being indulged at home picking and choosing what aspects of life they want to avoid is important to grow as a well rounded person

SEPT 23 1989 · 20-08-2017 7:11pm

The missus went to the book shop to sell 13.secondary school books great condition four of them never opened

They bought two off her the rest are obsolete even though they were bought last year

No problem contributing to my children's education but this is a total fcuking scam

freshpopcorn · 20-08-2017 7:31pm

The main people I have heard of being home schooled either have very religious or very atheist parents. They keep the kids at home so they don't get indoctrinated in the school system.

Ger Roe · 21-08-2017 8:38am

Dinarius wrote: »

I started a thread in the Education forum on IPads and books. Didn't get a response. So, at the risk of repeating myself;

Someone I know has been told that they have to buy hard copy books as well as an iPad with downloaded copies of the same books.

Apparently, at the end of the year, the downloaded copies of the books are wiped and have to be repurchased for her younger children. They cannot be passed on like the hard copies.

Is this really the case?

If so, could she not buy a Kindle and download the books to that and keep them?

Please tell me she's mistaken.

Thanks.

D.

No mistake.....

In the school that I am dealing with, they have now decided that you need downloaded Ebooks and also hard copies - apparently this decision was reached following feedback received from parents. I was never asked my opinion - presumably because I dared to ask a few hard questions at the very start of the process that they weren't ready to hear.

The Ebooks are issued on a time restricted licence and can not be passed on.

You can't download the books outside of the school portal and since they are interactive apps, they would be of restricted use as simple text formats. However, no one can tell me of any reports that produced conclusions on the effectiveness of the apps in the Irish educational system - what quality are they, what benefit do they actually produce?

All in all, the commercial aspect of this whole process is a scam where normal market forces for keeping costs down have been nobbled by setting up monopolistic arrangements with the equipment supply/training/maintenance company 'partnered' with the schools.

This is a costly ad hoc technology experiment being undertaken by certain schools and implemented at their own discretion, while being paid for by parents.

Call Me Jimmy · 21-08-2017 8:52am

Ger Roe wrote: »

No mistake.....

In the school that I am dealing with, they have now decided that you need downloaded Ebooks and also hard copies - apparently this decision was reached following feedback received from parents. I was never asked my opinion - presumably because I dared to ask a few hard questions at the very start of the process that they weren't ready to hear.

The Ebooks are issued on a time restricted licence and can not be passed on.

You can't download the books outside of the school portal and since they are interactive apps, they would be of restricted use as simple text formats. However, no one can tell me of any reports that produced conclusions on the effectiveness of the apps in the Irish educational system - what quality are they, what benefit do they actually produce?

All in all, the commercial aspect of this whole process is a scam where normal market forces for keeping costs down have been nobbled by setting up monopolistic arrangements with the equipment supply/training/maintenance company 'partnered' with the schools.

This is a costly ad hoc technology experiment being undertaken by certain schools and implemented at their own discretion, while being paid for by parents.

Oh so an actual racket? Expect to see this on prime time in year or two

Permabear · 21-08-2017 9:22am

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meeeeh · 21-08-2017 10:23am

Permabear wrote: »

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As far as I could see those were kids who were part of structured programme with parents paying for test and support. It was also a study where only kids of parents who agreed to participate were researched. It is safe to say those were kids whose parents probably had very high ambition, means and interest in education. That is not true for general population. Kids in less structured education also tend to preform worse than other groups (homeschooled or not).

https://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/homeschooling-101/academic-achievement/

It's also worth to mention that wast majority of quoted research is US based. USA do significantly worse on Pisa average scores for maths, science and reading than a lot of European countries including Ireland.

That doesn't mean individual homeschooled kids won't preform better but the conclusions about averages are highly questionable.

Radio_Fan_738 · 21-08-2017 10:31am

meeeeh wrote: »

They also offer them possibility to meet their peers and make friendships for life. Besides who says homeschooled kids are not brainwashed only by their parents in that instance.

Personally if I wanted to teach I would become a teacher. I don't. It doesn't mean I have no interest my kids education, it means I am happy for someone else to do the donkey work.

Do you also think it's good for your children if they shower naked with their peers at school ? No you don't, because you are Irish, however if you were Danish you would most likely think that.. you see you have your beliefs because that's what you have been told your whole life. https://www.google.ie/url?q=http://dybbol-skolen.skoleporten.dk/sp/273080/file/Fullscreen/7fdd6125-7bea-4733-989c-033c430e9421&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwi_iYSdhOjVAhXI3SYKHWHTDJEQFggMMAo&usg=AFQjCNGh6yoHR3Utkh8NN0_aC7N6BecM7Q

meeeeh · 21-08-2017 10:46am

Radio_Fan_738 wrote: »

Do you also think it's good for your children if they shower naked with their peers at school ? No you don't, because you are Irish, however if you were Danish you would most likely think that.. you see you have your beliefs because that's what you have been told your whole life. https://www.google.ie/url?q=http://dybbol-skolen.skoleporten.dk/sp/273080/file/Fullscreen/7fdd6125-7bea-4733-989c-033c430e9421&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwi_iYSdhOjVAhXI3SYKHWHTDJEQFggMMAo&usg=AFQjCNGh6yoHR3Utkh8NN0_aC7N6BecM7Q

Unfortunately I don't read Danish. But you are wrong I have no problem with communal showers. That's the problem making assumptions on limited facts, you might make wrong conclusions. I am not Irish. I have a little bit of experience of Irish education system (my children and conversations with others) and a lot more experience of Slovenian school system. Both are preforming highly in international comparisons. I can't see how limited research in lesser educational system would be that relevant and representative to make conclusions in Ireland.

Permabear · 21-08-2017 11:02am

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meeeeh · 21-08-2017 11:13am

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm sure your child is very bright. However kids in Finland barely start school at seven and yet their educational system out preforms most. But I also wouldn't do conclusions on seven years olds. That age is only start of educational process.

murpho999 · 21-08-2017 11:47am

I think they should get rid of the school uniforms.

Awful looking clothes.

I know people will come back with well it stops children competing with each other over brands etc but it works fine in the majority of countries in the world so why would it not work here?

Permabear · 21-08-2017 12:05pm

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Corkgirl18 · 21-08-2017 1:40pm

Permabear wrote: »

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That is definitely easy to say but hard to implement. If you had a class of 30 seven years olds a few of which have dyscalculia and other SEN, I would imagine it would be very difficult to differentiate enough to encompass the weakest children and challenge the most able students (with geometry and algebra) at the same time. Sure its a teacher's job to differentiate but I can't see this degree of differentiation being implemented successfully.
The time allocation probably isn't there.

Can I ask out of interest if you plan on home schooling your children once they reach High School age?

Permabear · 21-08-2017 1:49pm

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beauf · 21-08-2017 2:04pm

murpho999 wrote: »

I think they should get rid of the school uniforms.

Awful looking clothes....

I think thats the point though.

freshpopcorn · 21-08-2017 2:35pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Well to me there is a lot more to education than just maths.

Fourier · 21-08-2017 3:35pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think interacting with kids their own age instead of being indulged at home picking and choosing what aspects of life they want to avoid is important to grow as a well rounded person

How does this relate to homeschooling in general though? A child can be home schooled without being indulged or being allowed "avoid" aspects of life.

freshpopcorn · 21-08-2017 3:38pm

Fourier wrote: »

How does this relate to homeschooling in general though? A child can be home schooled without being indulged or being allowed "avoid" aspects of life.

If you ever watch parents talk about home schooling they always talk about being able to build the day around the kid which wouldn't happen in a normal school.

Fourier · 21-08-2017 3:43pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If you ever watch parents talk about home schooling they always talk about being able to build the day around the kid which wouldn't happen in a normal school.

In other words, they have an individualised study plan. To me this is not avoiding aspects of life, as generic one size fits all learning methods aren't "character building" in any sense, just an inefficient compromise.

Fourier · 21-08-2017 3:47pm

anna080 wrote: »

Cockapoo. Sure you could be teaching your kid any old sh!te at home.

Of course something done badly will be a poor choice. However for educated motivated parents, I don't see why homeschooling is a bad choice.

suicide_circus · 21-08-2017 3:47pm

iPad use goes up.

Leaving cert points go up.

Irish university rankings go down.

Hmmmmmmm

....... · 21-08-2017 4:08pm

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freshpopcorn · 21-08-2017 4:17pm

....... wrote: »

What happens if you say "sorry, cant buy the ipad - cant afford it".

Will your child be discriminated against?

What happens of you send your kid to school wothout books/supplies?
It's generally in the code of conduct that you need to have school supplies.

....... · 21-08-2017 4:25pm

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meeeeh · 21-08-2017 4:36pm

Fourier wrote: »

Of course something done badly will be a poor choice. However for educated motivated parents, I don't see why homeschooling is a bad choice.

You also need motivated kids. Lazy students like me benefit from external pressure. Although it would be tempting to avoid 6 years of physics and chemistry and replace them with art, history and sociology.

Corkgirl18 · 21-08-2017 4:57pm

Fourier wrote: »

Of course something done badly will be a poor choice. However for educated motivated parents, I don't see why homeschooling is a bad choice.

For Primary School I can understand it.
For Secondary School I don't see how most parents would have the ability to teach LC HL Maths, Physics, Accounting and French for example. I would worry the kids would be restricted in their choices. If the parents can afford tutors for all their subjects then fair play to them!
Also, knowing subject matter well doesn't mean someone will teach it well.

Back to school costs

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