Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

johnnyskeleton · 16-08-2017 08:15PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

The police was meant to be already there keeping the two sides apart but the mayor & his racist, black supremacy supporting vice mayor had told the cops to stand down

Mod note:

Tone down the rhetoric.

20Cent wrote: »

Everyone in lying except the nazis who are famous for their honesty.

Mod note:

Constructive posts only please

pitifulgod · 16-08-2017 08:22PM

Just finished the vice segment on rally. Christopher Cantwell, one of the speakers of the White Supremacist fascist rally who was incredibly open about his beliefs, literally viewed the rally as a 'win'. Since none of their guys died while one of the counter protesters did. The Southern Poverty Law Center have a pretty good summary of his views. This is an example of the views of one of the people they had speaking, all of them hold similar views.

Cantwell’s violent rhetoric and racist statements have gotten him kicked out of one libertarian organization after another, and with each ouster, he has moved further and further to the right, culminating in his alliance with neo-Nazis and white supremacists, and earning him a loyal, paying audience of haters.

“[M]y goal here is to normalize racism,” he explained to Hatewatch in one of two interviews for this profile. “I'm going to make a commercial enterprise out of saying things that people want to make illegal. I'm going to make a whole ****ing bunch of money doing it. Anybody who gets in my way is going to find themselves in a very long list of people who regretted underestimating me.”

splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/christopher-cantwell

ezra_ · 16-08-2017 08:23PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

Okay going through the list.

Mike Enoch - White Nationalist
Richard Spencer - White Supremacist
Jason Kessler - Organiser and white supremacist
Augustus Ivictus - He was widely criticized within the Libertarian Party for his use of fascist imagery and history of white nationalist associations, also a Holocaust Denier
Christopher Cantwell - Features prominently in Vice Documentary on Charlottesville, described dream of an ethnostate, happy out with people being murdered for his ideals too.
Matt Heimbach - Leads White Nationalist group
Johnny Monoxide - Appears to write for the Daily Stormer, a Nazi publication who will be picketing the funeral of Heather Heyer
Pax Dickinson - got fired from as CTO of Business insider for rape jokes and racism
Michael Hill - White supremacist

Two people that from the list are not self described white supremacists or white nationalists. Plenty advocate the slaughter of non white people. So, no we are not misrepresenting what that rally was. The president and some users on here are happily vilifying the counter protesters. Counter protest is not illegal and frankly it should be applauded when in opposition to fascism.

OK - I stand corrected! None of the names meant anything to me.

I don't disagree with much of what is said here, but I don't like the fact that if you post from a right wing view point, you get lumped in with the Nazis/Facists/nutjobs.

20Cent · 16-08-2017 08:30PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

Just finished the vice segment on rally. Christopher Cantwell, one of the speakers of the White Supremacist fascist rally who was incredibly open about his beliefs, literally viewed the rally as a 'win'. Since none of their guys died while one of the counter protesters did. The Southern Poverty Law Center have a pretty good summary of his views. This is an example of the views of one of the people they had speaking, all of them hold similar views.

Cantwell from the vice video made his own afterwards. He looks like a nervous wreak poor fella.

https://youtu.be/lyeTj002DCo

Akrasia · 16-08-2017 08:33PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes you are well within your rights to say anyone is wrong but antifa do not give they other side a chance to speak plenty of examples online. Is Milo a fascist?? No! Ben Shapiro?? NO!
The attack people wanting to hear the talks & also cause thousands of $ of damage
They are the ones being fascists whether it fulfill your criteria or not

Milo was the poster boy for Breitbart News. Breitbart News is 'The platform for the Alt-Right' (according to Bannon).

We all see the 'alt right' for what it is now after the events at the weekend, and the millions of social media posts from 'alt right' people cheering on Donald Trump's equivocation on Nazi terrorists.

manual_man · 16-08-2017 08:38PM

marcus001 wrote: »

People get confused with their words sometimes. Antifa are not fascist but the way they behave is very fascist-like.

Sometimes people like to try and overcomplicate something as a way to avoid the quite clear and terrifying truth. There are three things at the very heart of fascism: fear, control, and power. And if anyone can argue that Antifa isn't the very embodiment of these three things, then I'd like to hear how not.

And really, in my opinion, I think FEAR is the most intoxicating and dangerous element of all. I don't think that most people that align themselves with the left are bad people. Far from it. But I do truly believe that the majority are living their lives in a perpetual state of fear. And not fear of outside forces, but rather forces all around them that are willing to viciously take them down if they don't acquiesce to every last prescribed position on a variety of issues. So what happens? People are afraid. Afraid for their jobs and their careers. Afraid of being isolated. Afraid of being ultimately PERSECUTED. And it could all be for the simple crime of offering an honest opinion on any given matter. Yes, an opinion.

In many ways we are eating ourselves as a society. Too often we self censor, and this serves to only feed the culture of fear. And to embolden those who understand exactly what is going on and who are cynically and often viciously using this platform to get ahead - whether it be politically, professionally, or socially.

So we need to be wise to what is happening all around us. And if we dislike it, if we are fed up of all the fear mongering, name calling, all the viciousness and intolerance, well then we need to speak out against it. Because for every one of use who stays silent, the monster grows.

Brian? · 16-08-2017 08:45PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Why cant I have a different opinion than you?
Have you looked at the video evidence of what happened in Charlottesville?

You can. But it would help if there was some sort of basis in reality for that opinion. You're oddly silent on criticising the actual fascists while comparing Antifa to Fascists.

Akrasia · 16-08-2017 08:47PM

20Cent wrote: »

Cantwell from the vice video made his own afterwards. He looks like a nervous wreak poor fella.

https://youtu.be/lyeTj002DCo

He wants to peacefully eject all the non whites out of America.

I watched that vice video, he didn't care that poor woman got run down, he seemed ok with lots of other people dying for the cause, but when he thinks he is at risk himself, he cries and pleads for help.

Poor fella, he is trying his hardest to obey the law while exterminating the jews.

Wildlife Actor · 16-08-2017 08:48PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

It was not a fascist march it was meant to be a unite the right march. Groups like the proud boys & patriot prayer were meant to be at it but pulled out when the mayor started messing about with the permit
Not defending fascists/racists or anything else but why are people giving antifa who are actual fascists a pass?

Look at the poster and tell me it was not a fascist march

Brian? · 16-08-2017 08:51PM

manual_man wrote: »

Sometimes people like to try and overcomplicate something as a way to avoid the quite clear and terrifying truth. There are three things at the very heart of fascism: fear, control, and power. And if anyone can argue that Antifa isn't the very embodiment of these three things, then I'd like to hear how not.

And really, in my opinion, I think FEAR is the most intoxicating and dangerous element of all. I don't think that most people that align themselves with the left are bad people. Far from it. But I do truly believe that the majority are living their lives in a perpetual state of fear. And not fear of outside forces, but rather forces all around them that are willing to viciously take them down if they don't acquiesce to every last prescribed position on a variety of issues. So what happens? People are afraid. Afraid for their jobs and their careers. Afraid of being isolated. Afraid of being ultimately PERSECUTED. And it could all be for the simple crime of offering an honest opinion on any given matter. Yes, an opinion.

In many ways we are eating ourselves as a society. Too often we self censor, and this serves to only feed the culture of fear. And to embolden those who understand exactly what is going on and who are cynically and often viciously using this platform to get ahead - whether it be politically, professionally, or socially.

So we need to be wise to what is happening all around us. And if we dislike it, if we are fed up of all the fear mongering, name calling, all the viciousness and intolerance, well then we need to speak out against it. Because for every one of use who stays silent, the monster grows.

Did you write this with no sense of irony at all? You want to fight fear mongerint with fear mongering.

I've state led multiple times on this thread why Antifa aren't fascist. Can you rebut anything I've written on it with anything other than fear mongering?

Antifa, amongst others, went to Charlottesville to protest a white supremacist march. They were right to do so. Why do you think they weren't right to stand up to white supremacists?

manual_man · 16-08-2017 09:13PM

Brian? wrote: »

Did you write this with no sense of irony at all? You want to fight fear mongerint with fear mongering.

I've state led multiple times on this thread why Antifa aren't fascist. Can you rebut anything I've written on it with anything other than fear mongering?

Antifa, amongst others, went to Charlottesville to protest a white supremacist march. They were right to do so. Why do you think they weren't right to stand up to white supremacists?

How on earth can you try to suggest that anything I posted was fear mongering? Are you that in denial about the truth of what is happening in our society???

Just because someone SAYS they are anti this or anti that does that mean to you that they are exempt from criticism or indeed the very laws that are in place to protect us. Are you aware of the term 'wolf in sheep's clothing'. It's really not a very complicated concept: someone pretending to be good when in fact they are the exact opposite. Anybody with their eyes open can see that Antifa is an out of control mob full of bullies. And their numbers have sadly been increasing and their behaviour more unruly and violent. All the while many many people in a position to influence public opinion have either refused to condemn their hateful and intolerant actions, or at best been very reluctant. This is VERY worrying to me. The world I want to live in is one where ALL hatred, bigotry and violence is universally condemned, no matter what banner it's flown under.

Danzy · 16-08-2017 09:16PM

Brian? wrote: »

Did you write this with no sense of irony at all? You want to fight fear mongerint with fear mongering.

I've state led multiple times on this thread why Antifa aren't fascist. Can you rebut anything I've written on it with anything other than fear mongering?

Antifa, amongst others, went to Charlottesville to protest a white supremacist march. They were right to do so. Why do you think they weren't right to stand up to white supremacists?

Maybe he has no idea of the definitions of fascism, maybe he is using a crude street version of what fascism is.

Ultimately then he maybe correct just because one labels oneself as something doesn't mean that it is correct and given the context it is hard to disagree.

20Cent · 16-08-2017 09:33PM

New video puts the "two sides" claims to bed.
https://twitter.com/TheAnonJournal/status/897876591463813122

Brian? · 16-08-2017 10:02PM

manual_man wrote: »

How on earth can you try to suggest that anything I posted was fear mongering? Are you that in denial about the truth of what is happening in our society???

"The monster grows"- fear mongering.

I'm in denial about nothing. I just have a different opinion about how society is changing. It's generally changing in wonderful, life affirming ways. With some resistance from the right.

Just because someone SAYS they are anti this or anti that does that mean to you that they are exempt from criticism or indeed the very laws that are in place to protect us. Are you aware of the term 'wolf in sheep's clothing'. It's really not a very complicated concept: someone pretending to be good when in fact they are the exact opposite. Anybody with their eyes open can see that Antifa is an out of control mob full of bullies. And their numbers have sadly been increasing and their behaviour more unruly and violent. All the while many many people in a position to influence public opinion have either refused to condemn their hateful and intolerant actions, or at best been very reluctant. This is VERY worrying to me. The world I want to live in is one where ALL hatred, bigotry and violence is universally condemned, no matter what banner it's flown under.

Again with he fear mongering. I believe Antifa are anti fascist because they protest at fascist and extreme right marches. Explain how they are bigoted please.

Brian? · 16-08-2017 10:06PM

Danzy wrote: »

Maybe he has no idea of the definitions of fascism, maybe he is using a crude street version of what fascism is.

Ultimately then he maybe correct just because one labels oneself as something doesn't mean that it is correct and given the context it is hard to disagree.

Right. So he's right because he's wrong?

Brian? · 16-08-2017 10:08PM

20Cent wrote: »

New video puts the "two sides" claims to bed.
https://twitter.com/TheAnonJournal/status/897876591463813122

I shouldn't be laughing. But that guy in the green cycling helmet is the least intimidating Fascist ever.

The Legend Of Kira · 16-08-2017 10:08PM

Some Trump supporters now rallying for the statue for Vladimir Lenin to be torn down .
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/897905846725746688

Brian? · 16-08-2017 10:09PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Some Trump supporters now rallying for the statue for Vladimir Lenin to be torn down .
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/897905846725746688

It should be torn down.

manual_man · 16-08-2017 10:17PM

Brian? wrote: »

"The monster grows"- fear mongering.

I'm in denial about nothing. I just have a different opinion about how society is changing. It's generally changing in wonderful, life affirming ways. With some resistance from the right.

Again with he fear mongering. I believe Antifa are anti fascist because they protest at fascist and extreme right marches. Explain how they are bigoted please.

No fear mongering. Simply truth telling. I feel like you're trolling. If you want to really educate yourself, then go ahead and do so. The Internet, combined with camera phones, reveal a multitude of things that simply can't be denied. Such as the white supremacist morons preaching their hate at the weekend. And countless instances of Antifa engaging in mob rule, vandalism and violence. But please sir, don't take my word for it, go and find out for yourself!

jackofalltrades · 16-08-2017 10:17PM

20Cent wrote: »

New video puts the "two sides" claims to bed.
https://twitter.com/TheAnonJournal/status/897876591463813122

I guess if an Antifa supporter says it was all one sided, then it must be true.

There's plenty of pictures and videos of both Antifa and Neo-Nazi's/Whitesupremacists/Fascists(delete as appropriate) looking for a fight.
I think most of us(maybe not you) can agree that the violent types should stay at home.
Leave the counter protesting to peaceful people, who can send a much more powerful message.

Brian? · 16-08-2017 10:32PM

manual_man wrote: »

No fear mongering. Simply truth telling. I feel like you're trolling. If you want to really educate yourself, then go ahead and do so. The Internet, combined with camera phones, reveal a multitude of things that simply can't be denied. Such as the white supremacist morons preaching their hate at the weekend. And countless instances of Antifa engaging in mob rule, vandalism and violence. But please sir, don't take my word for it, go and find out for yourself!

I am not trolling. I have a different opinion to you. I'm quite well educated, thanks.

Madagascan · 16-08-2017 11:20PM

Brian? wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

No fear mongering. Simply truth telling. I feel like you're trolling. If you want to really educate yourself, then go ahead and do so. The Internet, combined with camera phones, reveal a multitude of things that simply can't be denied. Such as the white supremacist morons preaching their hate at the weekend. And countless instances of Antifa engaging in mob rule, vandalism and violence. But please sir, don't take my word for it, go and find out for yourself!

I am not trolling. I have a different opinion to you. I'm quite well educated, thanks.

What's that old saying about an educated Fool ðŸ˜

InTheTrees · 17-08-2017 12:00AM

Brian? wrote: »

It should be torn down.

I'm about a mile north of the lenin statue right now.
Its a matter for the City Of Seattle. Or the neighbourhood of Fremont. The Fremont area is arty, quirky, its full of bars and restaurants. And yuppies from Amazon and Adobe. There's really no political agenda to it, for instance average home prices in the area are something like $750,000, that gives you an idea of the area. If there's any kind of objections or movement to remove it i'm sure they would.

Its privately owned, bought by some guy from government auctions held by those ex-soviet countries when they were trying to raise money. Its been moved a few times and now is on a side street outside a pizzeria.

Its for sale. $250,000 and its yours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle

https://goo.gl/maps/RhkDo9K2mEQ2

marcus001 · 17-08-2017 12:26AM

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Seriously? A chap gets fired from Google for being a bit of a sexist and that's making people become neo-Nazis? I've heard it all now.

No one said that. As usual you're just being dramatic to get likes.

What I was getting at is that the negative public reaction to events like the Google memo has certainly emboldened the far right. The far right sees normal people getting angry about what the left and far left are up to and are putting themselves forward as an alternative.

This march was a clear attempt to capitalise on the negative feelings of normal Southerners towards the left who are trying to remove monuments. The more the left does to interfere in areas that concern the average Joe the more hay the far right will make out of it.

Professor Moriarty · 17-08-2017 12:31AM

marcus001 wrote: »

No one said that. As usual you're just being dramatic to get likes.

What I was getting at is that the negative public reaction to events like the Google memo has certainly emboldened the far right. The far right sees normal people getting angry about what the left and far left are up to and are putting themselves forward as an alternative.

Nah. It's Trump's rhetoric and the GOP's blind eye that has emboldened them.

Oh and this rubbish about the 'Left' is wearing very thin. The 'Left' in the USA is non-existent.

marcus001 · 17-08-2017 12:41AM

20Cent wrote: »

New video puts the "two sides" claims to bed.
https://twitter.com/TheAnonJournal/status/897876591463813122

Well that's that put to bed then. Totally put to bed, no further investigation warranted. That 2 minute video gave us everything we needed.

marcus001 · 17-08-2017 12:48AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nah. It's Trump's rhetoric and the GOP's blind eye that has emboldened them.

Oh and this rubbish about the 'Left' is wearing very thin. The 'Left' in the USA is non-existent.

I'd say they've definitely taken some encouragement from the success of Trump. Trump put issues like immigration back on the menu and people went for them, that has to be encouraging for them.

But you seem to be suggesting that they're motivated only by the actions of Trump and not by the actions of their opponents. I think this is a very myopic view. A few weeks ago a Trump supporter was smashed in the head by Antifa with a bike lock. Now they all show up at their marches in helmets. They're evolving before our eyes.

I'm not getting into a pointless argument about whether the left exists or not. You can figure out who I'm referring to from the context.

Brian? · 17-08-2017 12:52AM

marcus001 wrote: »

Well that's that put to bed then. Totally put to bed, no further investigation warranted. That 2 minute video gave us everything we needed.

Do you disagree with the conclusion drawn?

Professor Moriarty · 17-08-2017 12:54AM

marcus001 wrote: »

I'd say they've definitely taken some encouragement from the success of Trump. Trump put issues like immigration back on the menu and people went for them, that has to be encouraging for them.

But you seem to be suggesting that they're motivated only by the actions of Trump and not by the actions of their opponents. I think this is a very myopic view. A few weeks ago a Trump supporter was smashed in the head by Antifa with a bike lock. Now they all show up at their marches in helmets. They're evolving before our eyes.

I'm not getting into a pointless argument about whether the left exists or not. You can figure out who I'm referring to from the context.

No I can't. If you use lazy generalisations without understanding what they mean then that's on you. It's far more nuanced than Left and Right. You either don't understand that or you're being disingenuous to deflect from reality.

marcus001 · 17-08-2017 02:02AM

Brian? wrote: »

Do you disagree with the conclusion drawn?

It's an inconclusive video so I'm not prepared to agree with a half-baked conclusion.

Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

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