Dairy chit chat II

freedominacup · 08-08-2017 12:05PM

whelan2 wrote: »

We were locked up for a long time years ago. Blooded . Still had reactors. Sent a cow to the factory as a cull and she was riddled with lesions. Apparently she,was immune to the both blood and tb testing.

I was talking to a near neighbour last week. He had been wiped out with TB already this decade and was down to 19 milkers again before he lost another 3 in his 6 month test to go clear on Friday. He knows he has a cow like your one in his herd but she won't be found until she's killed. He said this to me back in the spring as well. He wasn't taking no for an answer when talking to the dept this morning. Everything he has left had to go. The kicker is he hasn't had a single animal grazing since he was cleaned out the last time. Everything indoors all year around.

pedigree 6 · 08-08-2017 08:47PM

freedominacup wrote: »

I was talking to a near neighbour last week. He had been wiped out with TB already this decade and was down to 19 milkers again before he lost another 3 in his 6 month test to go clear on Friday. He knows he has a cow like your one in his herd but she won't be found until she's killed. He said this to me back in the spring as well. He wasn't taking no for an answer when talking to the dept this morning. Everything he has left had to go. The kicker is he hasn't had a single animal grazing since he was cleaned out the last time. Everything indoors all year around.

Is there not physical symptoms that can be spotted on an animal if it gets that bad?

Coughing? Short of breath? etc?
I don't know just guessing here.

whelan2 · 08-08-2017 08:53PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Is there not physical symptoms that can be spotted on an animal if it gets that bad?

Coughing? Short of breath? etc?
I don't know just guessing here.

Not in our case. She was culled as she was a bitch. We were just happy to eventually find the root of the problem

freedominacup · 08-08-2017 08:57PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Is there not physical symptoms that can be spotted on an animal if it gets that bad?

Coughing? Short of breath? etc?
I don't know just guessing here.

Sometimes. We had a major breakdown here 25 yrs ago. Lost over 40% if the milking herd in one test. Dept rep asked my father had he any other cows he was suspicious of. He picked out another 6. None had reacted, all had lesions.

We had 3 reactors in the next test and went clear after that. Only been locked up twice since. Once for around a half dozen around 10 yrs later and a doubtful two years ago. A lot of it in the area though.

awaywithyou · 08-08-2017 09:49PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Sometimes. We had a major breakdown here 25 yrs ago. Lost over 40% if the milking herd in one test. Dept rep asked my father had he any other cows he was suspicious of. He picked out another 6. None had reacted, all had lesions.

We had 3 reactors in the next test and went clear after that. Only been locked up twice since. Once for around a half dozen around 10 yrs later and a doubtful two years ago. A lot of it in the area though.

Bad outbreak here 6 yrs ago... Locked for 2 yrs.... Grand now thank God... We will have our 3rd herd test in 9 months next Monday... Even tho we're not locked up.... Apparently the new man running DVO in Kerry says he's going clear the county of TB....

On the lesions... Just because they show up with lesions after being killed doesn't mean the animal has TB.... The glands/lesions must be cultured or grown (something like that) over a 12 wk period to identify for sure what lesions are.... We had a few calves go down... They had lesions... We were told it was TB for sure.... They cultured em and 12 wks later I got a phone call that none of the calves had TB... What had they I asked.... 'We don't know' was the knowledgeable response....

mf240 · 08-08-2017 10:08PM

Heard of a fella that had the department in testing and the cattle were so wild and he was so contrary , that it was 12 o'clock
By the time they managed to get them in.

At one o'clock he opened the gates and let the cattle off and calmly informed them that he was "closed for lunch" between one and two , and to call back at two .

Buford T. Justice XIX · 08-08-2017 10:49PM

awaywithyou wrote: »

Bad outbreak here 6 yrs ago... Locked for 2 yrs.... Grand now thank God... We will have our 3rd herd test in 9 months next Monday... Even tho we're not locked up.... Apparently the new man running DVO in Kerry says he's going clear the county of TB....

On the lesions... Just because they show up with lesions after being killed doesn't mean the animal has TB.... The glands/lesions must be cultured or grown (something like that) over a 12 wk period to identify for sure what lesions are.... We had a few calves go down... They had lesions... We were told it was TB for sure.... They cultured em and 12 wks later I got a phone call that none of the calves had TB... What had they I asked.... 'We don't know' was the knowledgeable response....

There's a good few stories about his encounters with farmers and vets around the county since he arrived here. I doubt he will be on many christmas card lists by farmers or vets come the end of the year.

blackdog1 · 09-08-2017 08:01AM

I've a question.. just clear of tb. Vet says I'm down to pay. But I have another test between Sept and December under new system and he says I'm down to pay that aswell....he's looking into it because before you only paid for 1 test in the year.

GrasstoMilk · 09-08-2017 08:13AM

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've a question.. just clear of tb. Vet says I'm down to pay. But I have another test between Sept and December under new system and he says I'm down to pay that aswell....he's looking into it because before you only paid for 1 test in the year.

What's the new system?

Mooooo · 09-08-2017 09:48AM

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've a question.. just clear of tb. Vet says I'm down to pay. But I have another test between Sept and December under new system and he says I'm down to pay that aswell....he's looking into it because before you only paid for 1 test in the year.

He's wrong id say. You pay for your yearly test anything else required is by the dept as it's under the scheme it's required. if there is a breakdown in an area it think all neighbouring farmers must do a 6 month "check test. For arguments sake if I go clear in Dec I must to another test in may

Mooooo · 09-08-2017 09:52AM

The inaccuracy of the test is the worst of the whole lot of it but what can you do. Apparently in nz they culled the possums fat chance of that happening here with badgers.
On a better note went on a trip to tipp to see two farms with group yday. Grand to get away for the day.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 09-08-2017 09:55AM

Mooooo wrote: »

He's wrong id say. You pay for your yearly test anything else required is by the dept as it's under the scheme it's required. if there is a breakdown in an area it think all neighbouring farmers must do a 6 month "check test. For arguments sake if I go clear in Dec I must to another test in may

And every 6 months for 3 years after the last reactor is cleared.

And there is something about being able to buy and sell for 2 or 3 months after the clear test and then you're restricted again until you have another clear test and the cleared to sell again for 2 or 3 months before another clear test needed to buy/sell again.

Mooooo · 09-08-2017 10:07AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And every 6 months for 3 years after the last reactor is cleared.

And there is something about being able to buy and sell for 2 or 3 months after the clear test and then you're restricted again until you have another clear test and the cleared to sell again for 2 or 3 months before another clear test needed to buy/sell again.

Basically a load of bollix

Buford T. Justice XIX · 09-08-2017 10:19AM

Mooooo wrote: »

Basically a load of bollix

Could be, Mooooo.

I was talking to my vet about the new regulations and he was saying something about a fairly large proportion of clear herds after reactors being removed having a breakdown again fairly soon after. So this was looked at as a halfway house between total restriction over a number of years and fairly fecking up a farm business or sell away and sure we'll sort out any problems afterwards.

Looking at neighbours locked up near me and one can't seem to get clear and another 2 have repeated breakdowns after going clear, all bounding each other.

I'm stuck in the 6 month cycle for 2 more years I'd say and it's a PITA but it does seem to have isolated the breakdown to 2 or 3 farms bounding each other. Hopefully this new system can isolate and clear up the breakdown but I'm not holding my breath, tbh.

atlantic mist · 09-08-2017 12:37PM

tb is a funny one, all farms adjoining us have went down the past ten years, touch wood we dont, couple of suspects but on killing were perfect and from our experience the tb test shows positive directly after a stressful calving or if the animal is already sick, certain areas seem to get tb and a lot of the time its around new roads or developments, think dublin has the highest rate but they seem to attribute that to the deer instead of development

old vet used to tell us its in the soil and birds are destroyed with it but you cant control birds, he told us to never graze to tight....we always have residuals left in fields and would probable be considered worse grass based farm in area for wasted grass....

have a heap of badgers here, never an issue with them beside the sods turned upside down in the odd area each morning

grandmother used to work in tb hospital where cure for humans was to leave them outside in the fresh air

pedigree 6 · 09-08-2017 12:49PM

To any Glanbia suppliers.
That superlevy bill you got this morning from the dept directly looking for money is not true. It is already coming out of your milk cheque.

They were sent out by the dept in error so I'm told.

pedigree 6 · 09-08-2017 01:19PM

atlantic mist wrote: »

tb is a funny one, all farms adjoining us have went down the past ten years, touch wood we dont, couple of suspects but on killing were perfect and from our experience the tb test shows positive directly after a stressful calving or if the animal is already sick, certain areas seem to get tb and a lot of the time its around new roads or developments, think dublin has the highest rate but they seem to attribute that to the deer instead of development

old vet used to tell us its in the soil and birds are destroyed with it but you cant control birds, he told us to never graze to tight....we always have residuals left in fields and would probable be considered worse grass based farm in area for wasted grass....

have a heap of badgers here, never an issue with them beside the sods turned upside down in the odd area each morning

grandmother used to work in tb hospital where cure for humans was to leave them outside in the fresh air

That may not be so far off the wall.
It seems Mycobacterium grows like a fungus and M.bovis may sporilate.

So I'd say it could possibly survive and grow in the soil. The badger is a rooter and be at more at risk of this if this was the case.

Edit: just reading up on it (Wikipedia) and there are viruses already that can attack Mycobacterium and may be used deliberately in the future as treatment or prevention of TB.
There's a war going on all around us and we don't even know it.:p

pedigree 6 · 09-08-2017 04:17PM

Right so it seems the link of tb spreading from badgers to bovines is not a direct route.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36976774

First the badger roots up under an infected cow's dungpat and gets tb from the cow's dung.
Then the badger goes somewhere else and dungs or urinates on the pasture or possibly in the water trough.
Cow eats the grass that badger has urinated or dunged on or drinks the water in the trough where the badger has urinated in and gets tb.

If this is the situation then also an infected cow dungs or urinates on the pasture.
Another cow eats the grass that has been dunged or urinated by the infected cow and also becomes infected.

kerry cow · 09-08-2017 04:34PM

Heard about that head guy up in tralee .glad he don't like sheep and fir trees and stays up around north kerry way from us down south .heard Larry's heart was broken from him been OTT.
Touch wood no tb down my neck of the wood .mentally drain that would be .

GrasstoMilk · 09-08-2017 11:38PM

https://youtu.be/XUnzfH9JpPM

Massive information here and well put across

K.G. · 10-08-2017 07:56PM

Well what did ye think of mike magans piece

jaymla627 · 10-08-2017 10:07PM

K.G. wrote: »

Well what did ye think of mike magans piece

Pure b.s to be fair, when the largest dairy processor in the country is the worst payer and hides behind share spinouts to massage the milk price payed how in the name of god could you get them to actually pay a transparent and fair price, its not in the likes of Kerry group our glanbia plc to pay a cent extra then they need too

Keepgrowing · 10-08-2017 10:45PM

K.G. wrote: »

Well what did ye think of mike magans piece

What publication?

K.G. · 11-08-2017 06:06AM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

What publication?

Journal

freedominacup · 11-08-2017 07:06AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Pure b.s to be fair, when the largest dairy processor in the country is the worst payer and hides behind share spinouts to massage the milk price payed how in the name of god could you get them to actually pay a transparent and fair price, its not in the likes of Kerry group our glanbia plc to pay a cent extra then they need too

Not as much BS as I thought there would be. I'm not sure about all of the amalgamation delivering as much as he thinks but we need to knock the development of any more driers on the head now. They are nothing more than a very simple way of paying everybody downstream from the farm what they believe they're worth with the balance left over when everybody else is well looked after available for the farmer. Whether that's 13c per litre or 33c per litre is of no consequence to the rest of them.

Glanbia have a big pot of cash available this minute and planning permission in belview but we won't see any increase in margins if this money is wasted on this project. If we had to spend half of it on market development and the balance on upgrading the better value added sections of the processing business to take the short term increase in milk production it would seem to me to be a better long term investment.

jaymla627 · 11-08-2017 09:58AM

freedominacup wrote: »

Not as much BS as I thought there would be. I'm not sure about all of the amalgamation delivering as much as he thinks but we need to knock the development of any more driers on the head now. They are nothing more than a very simple way of paying everybody downstream from the farm what they believe they're worth with the balance left over when everybody else is well looked after available for the farmer. Whether that's 13c per litre or 33c per litre is of no consequence to the rest of them.

Glanbia have a big pot of cash available this minute and planning permission in belview but we won't see any increase in margins if this money is wasted on this project. If we had to spend half of it on market development and the balance on upgrading the better value added sections of the processing business to take the short term increase in milk production it would seem to me to be a better long term investment.

Glanbias pot is swelled by 100 odd million of the GAP money though which if took away shrinks the pot fairly sustainally, it will be interesting to see if they do in-fact use this money to invest in processing what happens with the shares used as security

K.G. · 11-08-2017 10:21AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Glanbias pot is swelled by 100 odd million of the GAP money though which if took away shrinks the pot fairly sustainally, it will be interesting to see if they do in-fact use this money to invest in processing what happens with the shares used as security

Is that glanbia plc has 100mill or coop

jaymla627 · 11-08-2017 10:54AM

K.G. wrote: »

Is that glanbia plc has 100mill or coop

Coop has access to 100m, originally 50 million was meant for farmers in the guise of gap scheme but after next month all this money will have been repaid, and the other 50 million was for "co-op funding purposes that only the top guys know exactly what for, they wont devuldge the particulars to the common folk

freedominacup · 11-08-2017 11:09AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Coop has access to 100m, originally 50 million was meant for farmers in the guise of gap scheme but after next month all this money will have been repaid, and the other 50 million was for "co-op funding purposes that only the top guys know exactly what for, they wont devuldge the particulars to the common folk

Glanbia co-op has 100 million for investment as of mid July. This is the value of the plc shares sold as part of the spin out agreed by shareholders in May. They have it earmarked for a new drier in belview. I'm not sure of the Ins and outs of the money raised last year when they issued a pretty unfavourable bond to raise another 100 million or so.

The proposed investment in belview is the one with big question marks over it currently. The other fund needs to be questioned by shareholders and pressure brought to bear on directors to ensure it's not frittered away. We as shareholders have already greenlighted the spin out money for investment in processing, the question is where it should be spent.

atlantic mist · 11-08-2017 11:28AM

id imagine the gap funding was used to cover stock held over past two years, be interesting if we ever hear anything about it again cant see us getting back those shares, dont think they put much into eu storage but we did put some product into storage here in ireland, we are being paid over 30c a litre with over 50% of our product in powder, its hard to figure out how they pay for raw materials in any given year...

New dryer is being built later in the year out of retained profit since gii establishment, all milk will be going to ballyragget at back end of year as cant commence building with a dryer going for health and safety reasons so belview closes completely until new dryer is commissioned....would have made far more sense to build second dryer when commissioning the first one if that was plan anyway....id rather see a cheese/uth plant being built instead of increasing our reliance on powder that cant be sold/or can be sold if we are willing to continue to recieve 3c less than fonterra

according to my milk development office the new dryer is what 95% of supplier want there is only a few of us that think its financial suicide, fonterra are moving away from dryers for powder as it just cant return adequate raw material price to farmers and yet our management seem hell bent on driving us into it

Dairy chit chat II

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