Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

jayo26 · 27-07-2017 11:15PM

Hococop wrote: »

What way is shaw, is he our much longer?

He is back first of the 3 long term injuries Jose said. I think he is back October.

KombuchaMshroom · 27-07-2017 11:23PM

adox wrote: »

Two things Pogba isn't.

The best midfielder in the world.

An all round midfielder.

I'm baffled how anyone can think that.

Defensively he's extremely poor if you want to look at him as a complete midfielder. His positional sense and discipline in that sense is very poor.

He's a very talented boy and can with the right set up, be our star man, but let's not get silly about it.

Late to the Pogba debate, but to say he is not an all round midfielder is ridiculous.
If you were to compare his defensive "positional sense and discipline" to a Kante, Carrick, or Matic, then yeah you could argue against it but that's a stupid argument.
He's not a DM and they are. He is a CM or AM, or somewhere in between.
If you wanted him to show that much discipline you lose what he is best at.
Those 3 i mentioned above play that role because they cant do the things going forward Pogba can.

But he does contribute defensively big time when needed. Super strong, wins more aerials than any other midfielder, bullies people off the ball, and has a great sliding tackle.

Best in the world is a bit of a stretch (for now, he has it in him), but he is for sure an all round midfielder.

yabadabado · 27-07-2017 11:29PM

jayo26 wrote: »

He is back first of the 3 long term injuries Jose said. I think he is back October.

Saw somewhere he should be back mid September but who knows how long before he is fully fit.
A real pity he got injured as he needed a good pre season imo to try make LB spot his own.

DARK-KNIGHT · 27-07-2017 11:50PM

we put up with years of mediocrity in midfield and we resign paul pogba posterboy of French and in some way world football. an absolute talent, fantastic player to have at our club and we piss and moan about him.... cop on lads support the team

superfurry1 · 28-07-2017 12:00AM

Pogba is a world beater any midfield player in the premier league you would happily replace him with? hazard maybe but the point is we turned a corner when Pogba came back I firmly believe that; and greatness is on the horizon once more.

yabadabado · 28-07-2017 12:32AM

Get a top class DM into th team and Pogba will step up another level or two imo.

Cantona's Collars · 28-07-2017 01:10AM

The prices in Skopje for the Super Cup are eyewatering.

The locals are after creating a network so fans can find free accomodation.

https://globalvoices.org/2017/07/27/in-macedonia-geeks-create-free-accommodation-platform-in-reaction-to-hotel-price-hike-for-super-cup-fans/

beno619 · 28-07-2017 05:27AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Like the EL final?

On a serious note I can't remember his performance being particularly special.

I mean the multiple games vs the rest of the top 6 and cup games.

beno619 · 28-07-2017 05:30AM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Hate this term of playing well in big games. It's much more important to play consistently well at a very high level. Just because you play great in a semi finals or final shouldn't give you a pass to play ok at other times.

I agree and Pogba didn't consistently perform to a high level or least the level expected for a player of his profile imo.

Giggsy11 · 28-07-2017 05:57AM

beno619 wrote: »

On a serious note I can't remember his performance being particularly special.

I mean the multiple games vs the rest of the top 6 and cup games.

He was very good in Europa finals, home game vs Chelsea. Arsenal, Spurs. He was poor in away games and there isn't a midfielder who is more attack oriented can have big impact on away games considering how the team was set up.

Crimson King · 28-07-2017 06:45AM

This is the hope, a class holding midfielder will allow Pogba to do what he does best. I am getting tired of United having midfielders asked to do both roles (AM & DM). The words of Jose last year was music to my ears when he said 'I prefer specialist players'.

Here we are deep into his third transfer window and so far the 'imbalanced' side LVG & Jose were complaining about is still present. What is most frustrating for me is a Matic signing would totally transform the side. Hopefully its sorted, and sooner rather than later.

28-07-2017 06:53AM

beno619 wrote: »

On a serious note I can't remember his performance being particularly special.

I mean the multiple games vs the rest of the top 6 and cup games.

Giggsy ha mentioned a few of the big ones.
I would also like to add his excellent performance in the Semi final legs against Celta Vigo. He won MOTM in both legs if I'm correct. Same as the Final.

These are the big games.

beno619 · 28-07-2017 07:01AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He was very good in Europa finals, home game vs Chelsea. Arsenal, Spurs. He was poor in away games and there isn't a midfielder who is more attack oriented can have big impact on away games considering how the team was set up.

This argument has been done to death and my opinion is well known.

He was the worst player on the pitch in a number of those away games.

jayo26 · 28-07-2017 07:02AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Giggsy ha mentioned a few of the big ones.
I would also like to add his excellent performance in the Semi final legs against Celta Vigo. He won MOTM in both legs if I'm correct. Same as the Final.

These are the big games.

Seemingly games like that don't count because we had easier run to the final.

28-07-2017 07:04AM

S.M.B. wrote: »

It's not his inability to tackle and intercept that makes him poor at that role. As stated it's his positional sense and discipline that's currently an issue. I would also add his over confidence in some of his positive attributes often leads to loss of possession in crucial areas.

No I don't agree with this entirely.
IMO he's clearly instructed to free roam and does not have a determined position in midfield. Jose has openly said this many a time last season.
That doesn't mean it's always indiscipline, I acknowledge he made some mistakes in certain games and I openly criticized him here but the majority of the time he's been doing what he's been told to do and it's evident on the pitch.

Also I have said this before but he doesn't get enough of credit for the amount of ground he covers because of this reason.
As an example I specifically remember him run from the oppositions box and chase a player all the way back into our own box and then make the tackle.

Ultimately what is having an impact on Pogba last season was Joses inability to make a decisive decision on how he want's his midfield setup and where he want's those midfielders to play.

He's still lacking the correct personnel in the vital position. This should allow Pogba more positional focus in the attacking areas of midfield. But I wouldn't stifle him completely from defensive duties as he's more than adequate and his strength and his speed are a nightmare for opposition midfielders.

28-07-2017 07:09AM

jayo26 wrote: »

Seemingly games like that don't count because we had easier run to the final.

Easier run or not, those were the most critical games of last season. And he won MOTM in them all.
If he had not performed we would not be in the Champions League this season IMO

Giggsy11 · 28-07-2017 07:19AM

beno619 wrote: »

This argument has been done to death and my opinion is well known.

He was the worst player on the pitch in a number of those away games.

I remember him having poor games against Liverpool, apart from that no he wasn't the worst player in any games. If anything he was among the best player in most games.

beno619 · 28-07-2017 07:21AM

jayo26 wrote: »

Seemingly games like that don't count because we had easier run to the final.

Your words.

The tight ones like Southampton in the LC final and those numerous away games where you expect your big players to make a difference or at least have some influence he was simply nowhere to be found.

He's grand against average opposition when everything is going our way hopefully that changes next season.

beno619 · 28-07-2017 07:26AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I remember him having poor games against Liverpool, apart from that no he wasn't the worst player in any games. If anything he was among the best player in most games.

Chelsea away and in the cup.
Southampton in the cup final.

There were a host of poor performances against average teams in that period between December and February.

Giggsy11 · 28-07-2017 07:32AM

beno619 wrote: »

Chelsea away and in the cup.
Southampton in the cup final.

There were a host of poor performances against average teams in that period between December and February.

Yeah he was the worst player because he didn't close down Kante isn't it? :rolleyes:

There wasn't, only people who thought good game means scoring goal or assist thought he was poor when he wasn't. He was creating chances in every game which is his role.

yabadabado · 28-07-2017 07:51AM

zerks wrote: »

The prices in Skopje for the Super Cup are eyewatering.

The locals are after creating a network so fans can find free accomodation.

https://globalvoices.org/2017/07/27/in-macedonia-geeks-create-free-accommodation-platform-in-reaction-to-hotel-price-hike-for-super-cup-fans/

Was there in 2011 .Hotel,food and drink were rock bottom prices.Not only here that everything rises if a big event is on.

beno619 · 28-07-2017 07:59AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yeah he was the worst player because he didn't close down Kante isn't it? :rolleyes:

There wasn't, only people who thought good game means scoring goal or assist thought he was poor when he wasn't. He was creating chances in every game which is his role.

Your a decent poster so you shouldn't need to resort to condescending ****e and inventing arguments.

I'm glad you thought his performances last year were up to scratch.

Iago · 28-07-2017 08:12AM

zerks wrote: »

The prices in Skopje for the Super Cup are eyewatering.

The locals are after creating a network so fans can find free accomodation.

https://globalvoices.org/2017/07/27/in-macedonia-geeks-create-free-accommodation-platform-in-reaction-to-hotel-price-hike-for-super-cup-fans/

Had an apartment booked for 5 days for €679 which I thought was ridiculous as it was. Then UeFA stiffed me (read: was unsuccessful in draw) for tickets so I cancelled it. Was so much easier when I had season tickets

Cookiemunster · 28-07-2017 08:24AM

beno619 wrote: »

Your a decent poster so you shouldn't need to resort to condescending ****e and inventing arguments.

I'm glad you thought his performances last year were up to scratch.

I think you need to look at the performances when Pogba wasn't in the team to reference how well he was playing. And quite simply when he wasn't playing Utd were far far worse than when he was.

Mitch Connor · 28-07-2017 08:27AM

That chelsea game though - Pogba was terrible. However, I felt the tactics and team set up that night were terrible and did nothing to get anything out of our players. There were vast distances between our midfield and 'attack', and Pogba was completely isolated as everyone was so far away (sitting SOOOOOO deep).

That isn't to say he wasn't poor when he got the ball, but he got it so little and United, in general, made no impression on Chelsea that night.

clubberlang12 · 28-07-2017 08:48AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I think you need to look at the performances when Pogba wasn't in the team to reference how well he was playing. And quite simply when he wasn't playing Utd were far far worse than when he was.

I feel a lot of people seem to forget this. Our build up play was slower and we definitely missed his physicality. Was only when he was out that you see what he brings in to the team. The fact that last seasons system didn't utilise him to his full capabilities probably, in my opinion, even enhances his over-all profile last season.

TheDoc · 28-07-2017 09:07AM

RE: Pogba

I'm looking forward to him this season. I think he was harshly criticised last season with all the obvious influencing factors.

Calling him the best in the world is probably a bit of a stretch, but I don't think you can just flat line call anyone the best midfielder in the world anymore. There is no all rounders anymore and it's all compartmentalised. I think he is probably already is one of the best midfielders in the world, he definitely was at Juventus and I'd hope and assume this season will launch him into a serious level. Truely believe that.

Really think his price tag and maybe how he carries himself attracts people giving him harsher critique then a comparable player. If you consider how he played last season in the condition he was in, there is another 20% to go on just what he was, nevermind what he will continue to develop into.

Think we should be very happy with Pogba and be more encouraging and supporting. If we are going to achieve anything under Mourinho, it's going to be via him.

S.M.B. · 28-07-2017 09:09AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

No I don't agree with this entirely.
IMO he's clearly instructed to free roam and does not have a determined position in midfield. Jose has openly said this many a time last season.
That doesn't mean it's always indiscipline, I acknowledge he made some mistakes in certain games and I openly criticized him here but the majority of the time he's been doing what he's been told to do and it's evident on the pitch.

Also I have said this before but he doesn't get enough of credit for the amount of ground he covers because of this reason.
As an example I specifically remember him run from the oppositions box and chase a player all the way back into our own box and then make the tackle.

Ultimately what is having an impact on Pogba last season was Joses inability to make a decisive decision on how he want's his midfield setup and where he want's those midfielders to play.

He's still lacking the correct personnel in the vital position. This should allow Pogba more positional focus in the attacking areas of midfield. But I wouldn't stifle him completely from defensive duties as he's more than adequate and his strength and his speed are a nightmare for opposition midfielders.

Hard to disagree with all that and a lot of the responsibility lies with Jose in his setup of the midfield. And it's clear that in the majority of games Pogba had been given the freedom to roam

However, there were definitely a handful of games where the opposite was the case and Pogba was given strict instructions to stay deeper and be disciplined and I don't think he excelled when doing so.

The whole point will be moot if we manage to get the right personnel and setup to compliment Pogba which I think everyone realised when we splashed the cash.

bangkok · 28-07-2017 09:10AM

Just like to say, it was my opinion that Pogba was the best all around midfielder in the world as he can do things no one else can.

Yes kante is better defensively that him and there is probably a better attacking midfielder than him but overall, at what he does he is the best imo.

Someone said veratti and iniesta are better than him, well if pogba being poor defensively is a negative on pogba then both veratti and iniesta are poor offensively.

I personally wouldnt swap pogba for any other midfielder in world football right now.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 28-07-2017 09:16AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I remember him having poor games against Liverpool, apart from that no he wasn't the worst player in any games. If anything he was among the best player in most games.

Awful against Bournemouth but I agree his contribution overall hasnt been appreciated properly

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

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