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RTE seeking fees from Sky and cable operators for its channels

  • 12-07-2017 08:37PM
    #1
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭
    GDY151


    Noticed yesterday in all the mention of increasing the tv licence fee that the DG of RTE is seeking to charge Sky and cable operators for its channels. Surely this is crazy, every owner of a TV has to purchase a TV licence so has already purchased the right to view the channels, the choice of systems to receive them is their own business. Also with falling numbers of people watching TV the last thing RTE want to do is limit how people can watch your channel.
    The Director General of RThas called on the Government to allow RTto begin charging cable operators for its channels.


    Currently RTis obliged to offer its channels to any cable network free of charge.


    Dee Forbes told the Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Climate Action and the Environment, that RTwanted a change to the Broadcasting Act.


    The committee was shown an RTsurvey indicating that 50% of Sky customers would leave the platform if free-to-air channels were no longer available.


    The figure among Virgin viewers was 60-70%.


    Ms Forbes said allowing RTto charge for its content would "create a level playing field" and would not amount to "a handout or double taxation".


    "If Facebook or Google wanted to launch a platform here, they could simply ask for our channels and we would be obliged to provide them for free...is it really reasonable for this to continue" she asked.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/0711/889521-oireachtas/


«134

Comments

  • #2
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭flutered


    she will soon find out how valuable it is, also what the viewers and the advertisers think


  • #3
    mollser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭mollser


    ... but without then sky vm etc wouldn't have a business case. Basically similar to iptv operators charging for sports content they don't pay for.

    Wouldn't be happy to see it happen but their rationale is sound


  • #4
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    It's not a new proposal...it's something RTE have been making a bit of noise on for some time and we've had a couple of discussions on it and similar here lately - most recently this

    http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057739526

    What RTE fail to realise is that the collerarly for the removal of Must Offer is that Must Carry will almost certainly also go.

    I've mentioned before the history lesson of what happened when, in the early days of UK Digital TV, ITV sought to limit its digital service to the DTT platform. Research showed that ITV viewing dropped significantly in Sky Digital homes. And ITV did in the end give in and go on Sky.


  • #5
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I love that Dee Forbes sounds quite like D4


  • #6
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    How much are they looking for?

    I would favour the payTV operators being required to pay for Saorview so all major channels go HD. It would cost the operators approx €1 per month. It culd be collected by putting a higher rate of VAT now that they all pay VAT here now.

    However, the payTV operators get a good deal for free use of the RTE signal (and TV3 and TG4). They should pay for it - after all they BBC and ITV a royalty for Irish subscriptions.


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  • #7
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    I don't think they're at the point of actually discussing amounts!

    Right now they're simply looking for support for idea of the repeal of Must Offer (which will also lead to the repeal of Must Carry, a policy that once they were the main supporters and benificiaries of). Saying that pay TV companies should pay for RTE is all well and good but the collelary has to be that they can refuse to pay for it, if they deem the price demanded by RTE to be unreasonable.

    That might bring its own problems as Virgin has made its own position clear that if Must Carry was removed and RTE demanded too much it might simply decide to drop RTE and place its own channels at the top of the EPG. Virgin knows that cable households don't tend to have rooftop aerials, either, so a game of brinksmanship might ensue.

    I also suspect this is one policy that TG4 might find itself very much at odds with RTE on.


  • #8
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    She's also demanding a licence fee increase and also wants to demand operators pay for this, it's RTE not ITV, BBC or C4. Get real, Virgin and Sky will drop it like a hot stone if there's any messing around regards fees. I would be careful. End of the day, it will cause an increase in customers bills, so sounds like licence fee increase by the back door.


  • #9
    JTMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭JTMan


    From the SIndo (article not online yet):
    VIRGIN Media Ireland’s chief executive has written to Communications Minister Denis Naughten, claiming that a plan to make it pay to carry RTE would lead to increased prices for consumers.
    Tony Hanway said such fees, known as retransmission fees, could be passed on to viewers, which would effectively be “double taxation”.
    The letter comes ahead of a meeting on October 3 of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications, which is examining proposed changes to broadcasting legislation.


  • #10
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,914 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    JTMan wrote:
    From the SIndo:


    'Double taxation', old news! We must be near octi-taxation at this stage!


  • #11
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,401 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The letter referred to in the article


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  • #12
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »
    The letter referred to in the article

    I doubt the figures quoted about the willingness for subscribers to ditch RTE if there was a retransmission charge for Virgin. They may say that in a survey, but I doubt many realise that most of the TV they watch (well over 90%) is available free to air.

    It is interesting that he quotes a figure of 40% that would prefer 'everyone' paid the TV licence, which would suggest support for a broadcasting charge.

    BBC get paid a retransmission charge from Sky and Virgin, don't they?


  • #13
    More Music
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭More Music


    TallGlass wrote: »
    She's also demanding a licence fee increase and also wants to demand operators pay for this, ..........so sounds like licence fee increase by the back door.

    Sky and VM are companies who profit by carrying RTE on their platforms. They have been doing so for years. Why shouldn't RTE charge them.

    It's not a licence fee increase or double taxation by any stretch. You could in fact argue that by RTE charging these providers it will reduce the amount of license fee increase RTE may seek.

    This in turn has a positive effect on the many who don't or cannot afford to subscribe to Sky. It keeps any license fee increase to a minimum for these people. Why should people who only have Saorview, through a larger TV license increase, subsidise those who wish to watch Sky?

    The people who can pay for Sky or VM may or may not see an increase, depending on how much profit their providers wish to make.


  • #14
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,401 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    BBC get paid a retransmission charge from Sky and Virgin, don't they?

    No, not for the main channels at the moment. Zero net fees apply due to their spectrum allocation, programming guide prominence and advertising revenue that public service broadcasters receive amounts to value.

    The recently enacted Digital Economy Act for the first time allows the channels to negotiate transmission fees with cable channels but the regulation change doesn't apply to Sky which fall under separate EU regulations.


  • #15
    Delta2113
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭Delta2113


    "You could in fact argue that by RTE charging these providers it will reduce the amount of license fee increase RTE may seek."


    You really think that will happen -of course not -RTE will take,take take.


  • #16
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    This is old news, RTÉ and previously TV3 had said this time and time again.

    Don't be so innocent to think you are not paying for RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 to be on those services.

    Imagine if Virgin and Sky told the BBC that they would not pay them for carriage in Ireland.

    BBC, ITV and Channel 4 have all pushed this in the past. HD was at one point an area where they kind of won the battle.

    I assume that RTÉ and TG4 HD channels are part of the basic pack on cable if not why not?


  • #17
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Sky do some sponsorship on RTE. Is this part of a deal?


  • #18
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Irish Times wrote:
    Sky will drop RTE from its platform if the Government does not continue to oblige the public service broadcaster to offer its channels to pay-TV companies for free.Sky, which is 39 per cent-owned by Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox, told the Oireachtas communications committee on Tuesday that there “could only be losers” were Ireland’s public service broadcaster permitted to seek payment from platforms for its channels.“Sky would not pay RTE for its channels should RTE not be obliged to provide them for free,” said David Wheeldon, Sky’s London-based group director of policy and public affairs.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/sky-threatens-to-drop-rt%C3%A9-if-channels-are-not-offered-for-free-1.3243269


  • #19
    Sebastian Dangerfield
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Sebastian Dangerfield


    More Music wrote: »
    Sky and VM are companies who profit by carrying RTE on their platforms. They have been doing so for years. Why shouldn't RTE charge them.
    .

    Isnt it the case that RTE gain advertising revenue based on increased viewership from the channels being carried on the Sky platform?


  • #20
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,401 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Communications Committee were in session this evening meeting with TV3, Eir, Sky, Virgin Media and Vodafone. Discussion was to include the issue of Retransmission Fees.
    Tuesday 3 October 2017 (17.00 in Committee Room 2)

    Pre-Legislative Scrutiny of the General Scheme of the Broadcasting (Amendment) Bill 2017 and Retransmission Fees,
    also

    scrutiny of the Draft Broadcasting (Designation of Major Events) Order 2017

    Session (A) Representatives from a broadcaster: TV3;
    Session (B) Representatives from the platform providers: Eir, Sky, Virgin Media, Vodafone


  • #21
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,401 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    https://twitter.com/IrishTimesLaura/status/915302126804402176

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/sky-threatens-to-drop-rt%C3%A9-if-channels-are-not-offered-for-free-1.3243269
    Sky threatens to drop RTÉ if channels are not offered for free

    Pay-TV company says it won’t carry State broadcaster’s channels if Government allows retransmission fees

    Sky will drop RTÉ from its platform if the Government does not continue to oblige the public service broadcaster to offer its channels to pay-TV companies for free.

    Sky, which is 39 per cent-owned by Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox, told the Oireachtas communications committee on Tuesday that there “could only be losers” were Ireland’s public service broadcaster permitted to seek payment from platforms for its channels.

    “Sky would not pay RTÉ for its channels should RTÉ not be obliged to provide them for free,” said David Wheeldon, Sky’s London-based group director of policy and public affairs.

    This would set a precedent for Sky in other markets across Europe, he indicated. “Frankly this issue has far more ramifications for us than just our Irish business.”


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  • #22
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    The Cush wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/IrishTimesLaura/status/915302126804402176

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/sky-threatens-to-drop-rt%C3%A9-if-channels-are-not-offered-for-free-1.3243269
    the threat didnt go down too well with Timmy Dooley. uk company tells irish TD they will do what they want😀.


  • #23
    Maysa07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Maysa07


    Sky are making a fortune in Ireland and pay nothing in tax. About time they are asked to put there hands in there pocket.


  • #24
    turbocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭turbocab


    about time this sky and rte farce is coming to a head,rte is not free to air on astra 28, try tuing it in on your free to air satellite receiver all you get is scrambled signal,and you are paying a licence fee,


  • #25
    political analyst
    Site Banned Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    turbocab wrote: »
    about time this sky and rte farce is coming to a head,rte is not free to air on astra 28, try tuing it in on your free to air satellite receiver all you get is scrambled signal,and you are paying a licence fee,

    Here's the explanation for that:

    RTÉ would have to pay a much bigger amount for the rights to sports coverage and programmes that it imports if it wasn’t encrypted on the Astra satellite and it subscription-only on Sky so that it is at the top of the Sky electronic programming guide (EPG) for the Republic.


  • #26
    GhostyMcGhost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭GhostyMcGhost


    turbocab wrote: »
    about time this sky and rte farce is coming to a head,rte is not free to air on astra 28, try tuing it in on your free to air satellite receiver all you get is scrambled signal,and you are paying a licence fee,


    Not if your in tuning in from London, getting it for nowt


  • #27
    turbocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭turbocab


    political analyst wrote: »
    Here's the explanation for that:

    RTÉ would have to pay a much bigger amount for the rights to sports coverage and programmes that it imports if it wasn’t encrypted on the Astra satellite and it subscription-only on Sky so that it is at the top of the Sky electronic programming guide (EPG) for the Republic.

    programs like EastEnders etc that are freely available on bbc to everybody on astr 28,rte had a cosy little deal with sky,sky provided all the uplink sat gear for free and the payback was encrypt all the rte channels,now that deal doesn't suit rte no more, they want it both ways


  • #28
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Maysa07 wrote:
    Sky are making a fortune in Ireland and pay nothing in tax. About time they are asked to put there hands in there pocket.

    The people that work for Sky in Ireland, do they pay tax on their earnings?


  • #29
    JDxtra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    In this instance, RTE need Sky more than Sky need RTE. When Sky Digital started in Ireland it had no Irish channels on it for a long time.

    If Sky dropped it then viewers can get RTE via Saorview, or they can choose to just not bother watching it.


  • #30
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    JDxtra wrote: »
    In this instance, RTE need Sky more than Sky need RTE. When Sky Digital started in Ireland it had no Irish channels on it for a long time.

    If Sky dropped it then viewers can get RTE via Saorview, or they can choose to just not bother watching it.

    Or if they have to go to Saorview, then they have the inconvenience of switching platforms, so might as well go Freesat/Saorview and save themselves a fortune.

    If the Connect box is successful, (if) then it might make the transition to FTA simple (and be accepted as legitimate by all). I think losing RTE might be a big enough push to move the most lethargic out of Sky's warm and cuddly cocoon.


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  • #31
    More Music
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭More Music


    Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »
    Isnt it the case that RTE gain advertising revenue based on increased viewership from the channels being carried on the Sky platform?

    What's that got to do with Sky paying a provider for content?

    We've seen all these threats and bravado with Sky and Discovery Networks. Each side fought a very open war trying to win over the public. In the end both parties kept very silent about their agreement.

    TV3 arguing for years for a cut of the license fee and yet don't want any money from cable/satellite operators. Wonder why:)

    People probably don't subscribe to Sky just because of RTE. However, they are a major part of an overall package. If RTE were to leave Sky tomorrow you can be sure Sky would lose a lot of Irish subscribers.


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