RTE seeking fees from Sky and cable operators for its channels

Atlantic Dawn

Noticed yesterday in all the mention of increasing the tv licence fee that the DG of RTE is seeking to charge Sky and cable operators for its channels. Surely this is crazy, every owner of a TV has to purchase a TV licence so has already purchased the right to view the channels, the choice of systems to receive them is their own business. Also with falling numbers of people watching TV the last thing RTE want to do is limit how people can watch your channel.

The Director General of RThas called on the Government to allow RTto begin charging cable operators for its channels.


Currently RTis obliged to offer its channels to any cable network free of charge.


Dee Forbes told the Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Climate Action and the Environment, that RTwanted a change to the Broadcasting Act.


The committee was shown an RTsurvey indicating that 50% of Sky customers would leave the platform if free-to-air channels were no longer available.


The figure among Virgin viewers was 60-70%.


Ms Forbes said allowing RTto charge for its content would "create a level playing field" and would not amount to "a handout or double taxation".


"If Facebook or Google wanted to launch a platform here, they could simply ask for our channels and we would be obliged to provide them for free...is it really reasonable for this to continue" she asked.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/0711/889521-oireachtas/

flutered

she will soon find out how valuable it is, also what the viewers and the advertisers think

mollser

... but without then sky vm etc wouldn't have a business case. Basically similar to iptv operators charging for sports content they don't pay for.

Wouldn't be happy to see it happen but their rationale is sound

icdg

It's not a new proposal...it's something RTE have been making a bit of noise on for some time and we've had a couple of discussions on it and similar here lately - most recently this

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057739526

What RTE fail to realise is that the collerarly for the removal of Must Offer is that Must Carry will almost certainly also go.

I've mentioned before the history lesson of what happened when, in the early days of UK Digital TV, ITV sought to limit its digital service to the DTT platform. Research showed that ITV viewing dropped significantly in Sky Digital homes. And ITV did in the end give in and go on Sky.

Harry Palmr

I love that Dee Forbes sounds quite like D4

Sam Russell

How much are they looking for?

I would favour the payTV operators being required to pay for Saorview so all major channels go HD. It would cost the operators approx €1 per month. It culd be collected by putting a higher rate of VAT now that they all pay VAT here now.

However, the payTV operators get a good deal for free use of the RTE signal (and TV3 and TG4). They should pay for it - after all they BBC and ITV a royalty for Irish subscriptions.

icdg

I don't think they're at the point of actually discussing amounts!

Right now they're simply looking for support for idea of the repeal of Must Offer (which will also lead to the repeal of Must Carry, a policy that once they were the main supporters and benificiaries of). Saying that pay TV companies should pay for RTE is all well and good but the collelary has to be that they can refuse to pay for it, if they deem the price demanded by RTE to be unreasonable.

That might bring its own problems as Virgin has made its own position clear that if Must Carry was removed and RTE demanded too much it might simply decide to drop RTE and place its own channels at the top of the EPG. Virgin knows that cable households don't tend to have rooftop aerials, either, so a game of brinksmanship might ensue.

I also suspect this is one policy that TG4 might find itself very much at odds with RTE on.

TallGlass

She's also demanding a licence fee increase and also wants to demand operators pay for this, it's RTE not ITV, BBC or C4. Get real, Virgin and Sky will drop it like a hot stone if there's any messing around regards fees. I would be careful. End of the day, it will cause an increase in customers bills, so sounds like licence fee increase by the back door.

JTMan

From the SIndo (article not online yet):

VIRGIN Media Ireland’s chief executive has written to Communications Minister Denis Naughten, claiming that a plan to make it pay to carry RTE would lead to increased prices for consumers.
Tony Hanway said such fees, known as retransmission fees, could be passed on to viewers, which would effectively be “double taxation”.

The letter comes ahead of a meeting on October 3 of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications, which is examining proposed changes to broadcasting legislation.

Wanderer78

JTMan wrote:

From the SIndo:

'Double taxation', old news! We must be near octi-taxation at this stage!

The Cush

The letter referred to in the article

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

The letter referred to in the article

I doubt the figures quoted about the willingness for subscribers to ditch RTE if there was a retransmission charge for Virgin. They may say that in a survey, but I doubt many realise that most of the TV they watch (well over 90%) is available free to air.

It is interesting that he quotes a figure of 40% that would prefer 'everyone' paid the TV licence, which would suggest support for a broadcasting charge.

BBC get paid a retransmission charge from Sky and Virgin, don't they?

More Music

TallGlass wrote: »

She's also demanding a licence fee increase and also wants to demand operators pay for this, ..........so sounds like licence fee increase by the back door.

Sky and VM are companies who profit by carrying RTE on their platforms. They have been doing so for years. Why shouldn't RTE charge them.

It's not a licence fee increase or double taxation by any stretch. You could in fact argue that by RTE charging these providers it will reduce the amount of license fee increase RTE may seek.

This in turn has a positive effect on the many who don't or cannot afford to subscribe to Sky. It keeps any license fee increase to a minimum for these people. Why should people who only have Saorview, through a larger TV license increase, subsidise those who wish to watch Sky?

The people who can pay for Sky or VM may or may not see an increase, depending on how much profit their providers wish to make.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

BBC get paid a retransmission charge from Sky and Virgin, don't they?

No, not for the main channels at the moment. Zero net fees apply due to their spectrum allocation, programming guide prominence and advertising revenue that public service broadcasters receive amounts to value.

The recently enacted Digital Economy Act for the first time allows the channels to negotiate transmission fees with cable channels but the regulation change doesn't apply to Sky which fall under separate EU regulations.

Delta2113

"You could in fact argue that by RTE charging these providers it will reduce the amount of license fee increase RTE may seek."


You really think that will happen -of course not -RTE will take,take take.

Elmo

This is old news, RTÉ and previously TV3 had said this time and time again.

Don't be so innocent to think you are not paying for RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 to be on those services.

Imagine if Virgin and Sky told the BBC that they would not pay them for carriage in Ireland.

BBC, ITV and Channel 4 have all pushed this in the past. HD was at one point an area where they kind of won the battle.

I assume that RTÉ and TG4 HD channels are part of the basic pack on cable if not why not?

Sam Russell

Sky do some sponsorship on RTE. Is this part of a deal?

Apogee

Irish Times wrote:

Sky will drop RTE from its platform if the Government does not continue to oblige the public service broadcaster to offer its channels to pay-TV companies for free.Sky, which is 39 per cent-owned by Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox, told the Oireachtas communications committee on Tuesday that there “could only be losers” were Ireland’s public service broadcaster permitted to seek payment from platforms for its channels.“Sky would not pay RTE for its channels should RTE not be obliged to provide them for free,” said David Wheeldon, Sky’s London-based group director of policy and public affairs.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/sky-threatens-to-drop-rt%C3%A9-if-channels-are-not-offered-for-free-1.3243269

Sebastian Dangerfield

More Music wrote: »

Sky and VM are companies who profit by carrying RTE on their platforms. They have been doing so for years. Why shouldn't RTE charge them.
.

Isnt it the case that RTE gain advertising revenue based on increased viewership from the channels being carried on the Sky platform?

The Cush

The Communications Committee were in session this evening meeting with TV3, Eir, Sky, Virgin Media and Vodafone. Discussion was to include the issue of Retransmission Fees.

Tuesday 3 October 2017 (17.00 in Committee Room 2)

Pre-Legislative Scrutiny of the General Scheme of the Broadcasting (Amendment) Bill 2017 and Retransmission Fees,
also

scrutiny of the Draft Broadcasting (Designation of Major Events) Order 2017

Session (A) Representatives from a broadcaster: TV3;
Session (B) Representatives from the platform providers: Eir, Sky, Virgin Media, Vodafone

The Cush

https://twitter.com/IrishTimesLaura/status/915302126804402176

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/sky-threatens-to-drop-rt%C3%A9-if-channels-are-not-offered-for-free-1.3243269

Sky threatens to drop RTÉ if channels are not offered for free

Pay-TV company says it won’t carry State broadcaster’s channels if Government allows retransmission fees

Sky will drop RTÉ from its platform if the Government does not continue to oblige the public service broadcaster to offer its channels to pay-TV companies for free.

Sky, which is 39 per cent-owned by Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox, told the Oireachtas communications committee on Tuesday that there “could only be losers” were Ireland’s public service broadcaster permitted to seek payment from platforms for its channels.

“Sky would not pay RTÉ for its channels should RTÉ not be obliged to provide them for free,” said David Wheeldon, Sky’s London-based group director of policy and public affairs.

This would set a precedent for Sky in other markets across Europe, he indicated. “Frankly this issue has far more ramifications for us than just our Irish business.”

channelsurfer2

The Cush wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrishTimesLaura/status/915302126804402176

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/sky-threatens-to-drop-rt%C3%A9-if-channels-are-not-offered-for-free-1.3243269

the threat didnt go down too well with Timmy Dooley. uk company tells irish TD they will do what they want😀.

Maysa07

Sky are making a fortune in Ireland and pay nothing in tax. About time they are asked to put there hands in there pocket.

turbocab

about time this sky and rte farce is coming to a head,rte is not free to air on astra 28, try tuing it in on your free to air satellite receiver all you get is scrambled signal,and you are paying a licence fee,

political analyst

turbocab wrote: »

about time this sky and rte farce is coming to a head,rte is not free to air on astra 28, try tuing it in on your free to air satellite receiver all you get is scrambled signal,and you are paying a licence fee,

Here's the explanation for that:

RTÉ would have to pay a much bigger amount for the rights to sports coverage and programmes that it imports if it wasn’t encrypted on the Astra satellite and it subscription-only on Sky so that it is at the top of the Sky electronic programming guide (EPG) for the Republic.

GhostyMcGhost

turbocab wrote: »

about time this sky and rte farce is coming to a head,rte is not free to air on astra 28, try tuing it in on your free to air satellite receiver all you get is scrambled signal,and you are paying a licence fee,

Not if your in tuning in from London, getting it for nowt

turbocab

political analyst wrote: »

Here's the explanation for that:

RTÉ would have to pay a much bigger amount for the rights to sports coverage and programmes that it imports if it wasn’t encrypted on the Astra satellite and it subscription-only on Sky so that it is at the top of the Sky electronic programming guide (EPG) for the Republic.

programs like EastEnders etc that are freely available on bbc to everybody on astr 28,rte had a cosy little deal with sky,sky provided all the uplink sat gear for free and the payback was encrypt all the rte channels,now that deal doesn't suit rte no more, they want it both ways

Hitman3000

Maysa07 wrote:

Sky are making a fortune in Ireland and pay nothing in tax. About time they are asked to put there hands in there pocket.

The people that work for Sky in Ireland, do they pay tax on their earnings?

JDxtra

In this instance, RTE need Sky more than Sky need RTE. When Sky Digital started in Ireland it had no Irish channels on it for a long time.

If Sky dropped it then viewers can get RTE via Saorview, or they can choose to just not bother watching it.

Sam Russell

JDxtra wrote: »

In this instance, RTE need Sky more than Sky need RTE. When Sky Digital started in Ireland it had no Irish channels on it for a long time.

If Sky dropped it then viewers can get RTE via Saorview, or they can choose to just not bother watching it.

Or if they have to go to Saorview, then they have the inconvenience of switching platforms, so might as well go Freesat/Saorview and save themselves a fortune.

If the Connect box is successful, (if) then it might make the transition to FTA simple (and be accepted as legitimate by all). I think losing RTE might be a big enough push to move the most lethargic out of Sky's warm and cuddly cocoon.

More Music

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Isnt it the case that RTE gain advertising revenue based on increased viewership from the channels being carried on the Sky platform?

What's that got to do with Sky paying a provider for content?

We've seen all these threats and bravado with Sky and Discovery Networks. Each side fought a very open war trying to win over the public. In the end both parties kept very silent about their agreement.

TV3 arguing for years for a cut of the license fee and yet don't want any money from cable/satellite operators. Wonder why:)

People probably don't subscribe to Sky just because of RTE. However, they are a major part of an overall package. If RTE were to leave Sky tomorrow you can be sure Sky would lose a lot of Irish subscribers.

Hitman3000

More Music wrote:

People probably don't subscribe to Sky just because of RTE. However, they are a major part of an overall package. If RTE were to leave Sky tomorrow you can be sure Sky would lose a lot of Irish subscribers.

Would be interesting to see RTE leave Sky. Doubt if Sky would lose a lot of subscribers. The crap on RTE is the reason a lot of people have Sky.

Elmo

Communicorp want to divert 25million of the licence fee to Journalism!

The Cush

Maysa07 wrote: »

Sky are making a fortune in Ireland and pay nothing in tax. About time they are asked to put there hands in there pocket.

That changed a few years ago under EU regs, VAT is paid where the service is provided, hence the reason a separate Sky Ireland company was formed about that time.

TallGlass

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Would be interesting to see RTE leave Sky. Doubt if Sky would lose a lot of subscribers. The crap on RTE is the reason a lot of people have Sky.

Sky are loosing customers, by treating Irish customers like idiots. It drives me mental that RTE is behind a paywall on the sat system, thankfully in this modern age I can use a computer.

Your one Dee must think she is still over Discovery or something if she thinks SKY/Virgin or any operator will pay for RTE. Sky where just about telling Discovery to f**k off, they will tell RTE to f**k off.

The Cush

TallGlass wrote: »

Your one Dee must think she is still over Discovery or something if she thinks SKY/Virgin or any operator will pay for RTE. Sky where just about telling Discovery to f**k off, they will tell RTE to f**k off.

The issue of retransmission fees is also happening in the UK, the regulations were changed recently to allow the PSBs seek fees for their transmission on the pay platforms.

JDxtra

In my opinion, RTE would be the bigger loser here if Sky were to pull them from the platform.

Sky would lose some customers, but not enough for it to be a problem. Many people have a disdain for RTE at the moment and already resent paying the license fee. Besides, with no RTE on the platform Sky could lure in more advertisers to the channels where they already play Irish ads.

Elmo

JDxtra wrote: »

In my opinion, RTE would be the bigger loser here if Sky were to pull them from the platform.

Sky would lose some customers, but not enough for it to be a problem. Many people have a disdain for RTE at the moment and already resent paying the license fee. Besides, with no RTE on the platform Sky could lure in more advertisers to the channels where they already play Irish ads.

I agree, I don't think RTÉ are doing themselves no favours. They have gone to **** and they don't seem to realize it, Dee Forbes really is only restructuring she seems to have displaced all content. Repeats and repeats on TV, along with over paid stars, RTÉ seem not to be aware of how their audience feel nor do they seem to care. This has been ongoing since 2008.

Harry Palmr

RTE have been on the wrong end of this marriage of convenience from the start, they just didn't know it. Despite being the primary content provider for a sovereign state they were happy to jump into bed with a UK based company to be seen in Ireland! Had this not been the case maybe what is now saorview would have been a useful platform for a number of content providers with RTE as the core company. Instead they are a very small player on a big platform. Sky would lose some customers but more likely is that they'd have to tweak their basic package for the UK FTA channels as Freesat would suddenly get a massive boost if RTE left SKY. All those dishes with multi LNBs...

lertsnim

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The people that work for Sky in Ireland, do they pay tax on their earnings?

What's that got to do with anything?

alan partridge aha

If sky stop carrying RTE I for one will not renew my subscription. A few more might do the same but not enough to badly affect SKY.

icdg

lertsnim wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything?

It doesn’t, and let that line of conversation be dropped.

Look, we’re in the EU, and companies from what for now is still an EU member state have every right to come and do business here. When Sky got into the carriage business (first with Sky Multichannels in 1993) it had no terrestrial channels of any sort. When Sky Digital started in 1998 there were no terrestrial channels either. Must carry/must offer didn’t apply to it, being regulated in the UK (indeed there was no provision to apply it to satellite prior to the Broadcasting Act 2009).

I am not sure that Sky getting RTE made Pay DTT any less viable. I think t made Sky a more attractive proposition as regards Cable, sure. But I don’t think RTE staying off Sky would have saved pay DTT at all in the way certain posters think. It was always an unattractive proposition set against both digital cable and satellite, both of which can offer many multiples of the 30 channels or so that was being proposed for pay-DTT at the time it was being promoted.

As for RTE, they know what they are proposing means. Lose must offer and must carry also goes. Fair is fair. The risk is that the pay TV companies follow through and TV3 goes to the top of the EPG.

Finally, I don’t think anyone, bar some long time cable subscribers, choses pay TV because they only want RTE. Once upon a time it was for the BBC. Now it’s becauee they want premium sports and movies. RTE is a nice to have, not a subscription driver. Those who only want RTE can go to Saorview.

Elmo

I agree PAY DTT to work would have had to have happened earlier and even then looking at European PAY DTT role outs none went to plan, that I know of.

Fian

From the point of view of the Irish consumer, via sky or virgin, inevitably this cost will be passed on. As you would expect.

We are paying for RTE in the licence fee - why should we have to pay a second time because we are watching on Sky/Virgin rather than via saorview? If this cost is charged to sky / virgin customers watching though cable service why should it not be also charged to saorview customers - thus reducing the burden by increasing the numbers paying. If you go that far though - why are they not simply looking for a licence fee increase? Not that i think they should get one.

Elmo

Fian wrote: »

From the point of view of the Irish consumer, via sky or virgin, inevitably this cost will be passed on. As you would expect.

We are paying for RTE in the licence fee - why should we have to pay a second time because we are watching on Sky/Virgin rather than via saorview? If this cost is charged to sky / virgin customers watching though cable service why should it not be also charged to saorview customers - thus reducing the burden by increasing the numbers paying. If you go that far though - why are they not simply looking for a licence fee increase? Not that i think they should get one.

Your possibly picking up the cost in any case. IMO I think RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 should be available on a FTV basis on all pay providers.

For example if you fall behind in payments or cancel your subscription the provider may disable your Pay TV channels and services, but the channels available on Soarview may not be disabled.

mackersdublin

RTE and Sky were best of buddies just over 2 years ago

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2015/0904/725719-sky-rte-announce-long-term-partnership/

TallGlass

RTE have failed to notice also. That if Sky refuse to pay RTE the fee for what is 80% pure rubbish programming. Then why should the tax paying public be burdened with a licence fee increase.

RTE need to understand they are no longer needed in such volume. Too many TV stations, too many Radio stations. Not even sure if they still own the transmission network think they sold it off. Anyway, they should close down radio stations and TV stations and focus on less platforms and more on the content.

Then either reduce the licence fee down or keep it and rearrange the pie to be shared with TG4 etc...

I don't want no RTE it's needed. But we don't need RTE1/2 just RTE. We don't need 2FM it's constantly under performing and in minus in terms of profit. Close it down.

lertsnim

People are underestimating just how many people watch RTÉ, RTÉ One in particular.

Elmo

lertsnim wrote: »

People are underestimating just how many people watch RTÉ, RTÉ One in particular.

You underestimating how many would miss it, RTÉ One's audience is falling, it's just waiting for DWTS.

RTÉ have no idea how they continue to walk from PR disaster to PR disaster, they hide in full view.

TallGlass

lertsnim wrote: »

People are underestimating just how many people watch RTÉ, RTÉ One in particular.

Yes. I agree. But I watch RTE. Would I miss it if it left tomorrow? No. Not at all. My viewing figures would be extremely low.

Now. If Netflix closed down tomorrow I would be very upset. And I happily pay for that. I was pretty pissed when the BBC moved BBC3 online and I don't even pay for that.

galtee boy

It's fine to say watch RTÉ on Saorview if it went off Pay TV, but what the hell do we record/series link it on ? Right now we only have the Walker PVR and the forthcoming piece of junk called Saorview Connect, which from the spec of it, makes the Walker look like a Humax ! I for one, hope RTÉ stays on all pay tv platforms.