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So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

1568101123

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,081 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No it isn't more apt at all. North and South as a descriptor is apt on any land mass. Most rational people accept it and know what is being talked about in general terms. But keep up the pedantry if it works for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    If there was a referendum, Id vote no for a unified Ireland. I feel sorry for the Irish up there but I think the majority are loyalists that hate us. I think a good idea one poster said is let it become its own country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,081 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    For those who subscribe to the 'they are all the same' nonsense propagated by the media and politicians that do not want a UI because they know their power base diminished, it is worth reading this from the 1930's. It is long but worth it.

    An Address from the Army Council of the Irish Republican Army to the Men and Women of the Orange Order

    [This is the text as quoted by The Kerryman on 16th July 1932. It was published in An Phoblacht the same day and had been largely written by Peader O’Donnell. Prior to publication, it had been circulated with a covering letter from the IRA’s Adjutant General, Donal O’Donoghue, on 8th July to newspaper editors. Most, even including the Belfast Newsletter, published abridged versions as early as 11th July 1932. I have kept the formatting here from The Kerryman version. The address was distributed as leaflets in unionist districts of Belfast by IRA volunteers.]

    Fellow Countrymen and Women,

    It is a long call from the ranks of the Irish Republican Army to the marching throngs that hold the 12th July Celebrations in North East Ulster. Across the space we have sometimes exchanged shots, or missiles or hard words, but never forgetting that on occasions our ancestors have stood shoulder to shoulder. Some day we will again exchange ideas and then the distance which now separates us will shorten. For we of the Irish Republican Army believe that inevitably the small farmers and wage-earners in the Six County area will make common cause with those of the rest of Ireland, for the common good of the mass of the people in a Free United Irish Republic. Such a conviction is forming itself in an ever increasing number of minds in North East Ulster.

    The Irish Republican Army – within North East Ulster as well as in the rest of Ireland – believe that the mass of the Working-Farmers and Wage-earners must organise behind revolutionary leadership if they are to rescue themselves from a system within they the few prosper and the many are impoverished.

    It is our opinion, a conviction driven in on our mind by the facts of life around us, that capitalism and imperialism constitute a system of exploitation and injustice within which the mass of the people can know no freedom.

    The burdens of to-day’s bad times are falling with increasing weight on Working Farmers, who must surrender an increasing part of their produce to meet rents, taxes, bank interest, etc, while their incomes diminish The unemployed workers are being torn at with economies in social services – adding daily to the destitute. The wage earners are finding their conditions _s of employment and standard of living steadily worsening.

    We can see no permanent solution of these evils except by the transfer of power over production, distribution and exchange to the mass of the people.

    The power to produce what the many require exists; the Organisation and its distribution presents no insoluble difficulty. But the vested interests of a privileged minority are across the road and progress is impossible, unless we are prepared to clear away these obstacles.

    These interests that deny their rights to the many are those on which the Empire rests. Touch or threaten these privileged interests and the whole force of the Empire is invoked for their protection. Thus it is that we see and say that the freedom of the mass – of the Irish People is impossible without breaking the connection with Imperial Britain and with all the Imperial system connotes.

    Do you see any other road to freedom for yourselves and your families?

    You must realise that the chief industries on which the former alleged prosperity of North East Ulster rested are gone beyond hope of being revived; that the same thing has occurred in Great Britain; that everywhere the pinch grows tighter on those who are unemployed as a result of this breakdown in the whole structure of capitalism. Can the British people help you while their own workers and industries are struggling desperately to exist and are not succeeding in these days? Where do you see any hope?

    Working-farmers and Wage-earners of North East Ulster. You surely must see that your future is bound up with the mass of the people in the remainder of Ireland. To preserve yourselves from extinction, you and they must combine and go forward to the attainment of A Free Irish Nation within which life and living will be organised and controlled by you to serve your needs and thus end the present economic and social injustices for ever.

    The industrial capacity, and training of you industrial workers, of North East Ulster ensure you a leading influence and place in the economy and life of a Free Irish Nation.

    EXPLOITATION OF RELIGIOUS PREJUDICES

    To prejudice you it is emphasized that we of the Irish republican Army and the mass of Republicans are mainly Catholic, and that your religious beliefs would not be respected in a free Ireland! It is quite true we are mianly Catholics, but in Southern Ireland the same political and economical interests and voices that tell you we are Catholics, tell the Catholic population of the South that we are Anti-God fanatics, and yearning for an opportunity to make war on the religion to which the majority of us belong!

    The fact is we are quite unaware of religious distinctions within our Movement.

    We guarantee you, you will guarantee us, and we will both guarantee all full freedom of conscience and religious worship in the Ireland we are to set free.

    This is the simple truth, and just now when Imperial interests are attempting to conceal themselves behind the mad fury of religious strife you and we should combine to make certain that no such escape should be provided them.

    In the process of exploitation of the wage-earners and small producers, do you not realise how little religion matters to the exploiters? Orangemen and Catholic, Catholic women and yours toil side by side in the factory and mill, all equally victims Those who thus exploit mercilessly your labour and energies, would outside set you at one anothers throats, because it is to their advantage to divide you and lead you into conflict by arousing religious issues and inflaming passions.

    Do yon not find yourselves queued shoulder to shoulder outside the Unemployed Exchanges waiting for the ‘Dole’, that crumb which the exploiters throw to the exploited of different religions? In these vital matters jour religion or your membership of the Orange Older counts for little, nor does Catholicism to the unemployed and starving Catholics in Southern Ireland.

    The fact is that the religious feelings of the masses of both Orangemen and Catholics are played on and exploited by the Imperialists and Capitalists the more surely to enslave them.

    THE VICTORY OF THE BOYNE!

    You celebrate the victory of the Boyne. This battle was a victory for the alliance of the then Pope; and William of Orange; strange alliance for you to celebrate; strange victory for Catholics to resist! History has been muddled to hide the occasions when your forefathers and ours made common cause, and passions are stirred to manufacture antagonisms. If William of Orange and His Holiness could achieve an alliance, there is hope that “NO SURRENDER” may come up from a throng which also roars “UP THE REPUBLIC”.

    Your stock were the founders and inspiration, the North East Ulster the cradle, of the modern Revolutionary Movement for National Independence and Economic Freedom. Your illustrious ancestors and co-religionists, the United Irishmen, by their gallant struggle in 1798 set aflame the ideals of Republicanism which never since have been extinguished. We ask that you should join us to achieve their ideals — National Freedom and religious toleration.

    It was John Mitchel, a Newry man of your stock, who addressed these words to your forefathers: “In fact religious hatred has been kept alive in Ireland longer than anywhere else in Christendom. Just for the simple reason that Irish landlords and British statesmen found their own account in it, and so soon as Irish landlordism and British domination are finally rooted out of the country it will be heard of no longer in Ireland any more than it is in France or Belgium, now.”

    Fraternally, Your Fellowcountrymen,

    The Army Council,

    On Behalf of the Irish Republican Army


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    red ears wrote: »
    I spend a lot of time in the west of Scotland I would advise anyone with a southern Irish accent to be weary of speaking to groups of northerners as freely as they would groups of southern Irish. I have seen enough to know how quick it can result in agro. Quite a lot of them do not like us. It's no great secret.

    If you're drinking in shìthole towns like Kilwinning or Ardrossan it's not the Northerners you need to worry about


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,210 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    so the only problems were in relation to the fire brigade being busy

    they have come a long way

    Apart from Racism, Sectarianism and broken windows

    ******



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,210 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    fin12 wrote: »
    If there was a referendum, Id vote no for a unified Ireland. I feel sorry for the Irish up there but I think the majority are loyalists that hate us. I think a good idea one poster said is let it become its own country.

    the majority is slowly turning from Protestants to Catholics up here

    ******



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭swimming in a sea


    Pallet makers in Belfast book their Caribbean holiday at this time of year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    We were talking about this over lunch here in England. The French girl at the table wss horrified asnd asked why are they allowed to burn the Irish flag. She said the same level of bigotry wouldn't be tolerated in France. Why do the UK allow and even fund this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Why do the UK allow

    Because it's not illegal.
    and even fund this?

    Ehh I got nothing for that one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy





    Ehh I got nothing for that one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Good that you posted though or else we wouldn't have known that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Good that you posted though or else we wouldn't have known that.

    :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Because it's not illegal.



    Ehh I got nothing for that one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    There's no way this doesn't come under hate speech, racism, etc.

    If it was football, and an effigy of someone was hung and torched, it'd be a national scandal.

    But done in support of the Union? Bang on ahead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    There's no way this doesn't come under hate speech, racism, etc.

    If it was football, and an effigy of someone was hung and torched, it'd be a national scandal.

    But done in support of the Union? Bang on ahead.

    Oh I'd say many things they do are illegal. The massive racism for a start. But flag burning in itself doesn't seem to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    There's no way this doesn't come under hate speech, racism, etc.

    If it was football, and an effigy of someone was hung and torched, it'd be a national scandal.

    But done in support of the Union? Bang on ahead.

    Indeed. When it happens in Britain it comes under breach of the peace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,083 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How many countries celebrate guy Fawkes besides the obvious?

    Canada (ref), New Zealand, South Africa, some places in the Caribbean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Honestly don't believe a United Ireland will ever happen:

    - Northern Unionists don't want it.
    - Northern Nationalists don't want it
    - ROI Government don't want it (currently, and it'd hard to see any type of future Govt that would)

    The British Govt would love to hand it back to bus though. They don't give a monkeys about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    A KKK rally in America was met with a 1000 anti-racism protesters while this gets council funding. I think it's fair to say our British cousins do the racism better. It's a symptom of imperialism.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/racist-hate-crimes-surge-to-record-high-after-brexit-vote-new-figures-reveal-a7829551.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Honestly don't believe a United Ireland will ever happen:

    - Northern Unionists don't want it.
    - Northern Nationalists don't want it
    - ROI Government don't want it (currently, and it'd hard to see any type of future Govt that would)

    The British Govt would love to hand it back to bus though. They don't give a monkeys about it.


    you left somebody out. the people in the republic dont want a massive financial millstone around our necks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭tigger123


    you left somebody out. the people in the republic dont want a massive financial millstone around our necks.

    Think that's reflected in the ROI Govt not wanting it. No political party would be able to win a majority and form a Govt based on a manifesto that put a 32 county ROI front and centre.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭smeal


    The Martin McGuinness taunt is disgusting. Could you imagine if a similar taunt was done on St Patricks Day with Ian Paisley's face on a coffin? All hell would break loose- there would be raids, divides in Stormont, protests on "terrorism"...Albeit if a gang of Republicans did stoop to that level you would likely see a Sinn Fein rep publically condoning the behaviour as unacceptable. I can guarantee not one DUP member will publically condone this as unacceptable.

    Its one way for the Unionists and another for the Republicans. When we were in Belfast for uni I remember a girl in my class doing placement in a national bank and telling us a story of how one Unionist co-worker took offence at a Catholic member of staff for keeping a Missionary card and a small bottle of holy water on her desk. She complained that it was "provoking". Yet the same woman had a small framed sash of her local marching band on her desk and annually would promote the office pre-12th party. This bigotry behaviour is rife among unionists.

    There will always be provoking behavior from the two camps in the North except one of them are labelled as Terrorists and the other are labelled as "Just promoting their culture"


  • Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭ Brenna Raspy Cane


    What if somebody builds a bonfire with islamic / jihadist flags I could nearly bet it would be taken down in minutes even though they are killing & raping at will

    And it would be all over the news

    The hypocrisy of it all


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    M!Ck^ wrote: »
    What if somebody builds a bonfire with islamic / jihadist flags I could nearly bet it would be taken down in minutes even though they are killing & raping at will

    And it would be all over the news

    The hypocrisy of it all

    No that's a spoon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    M!Ck^ wrote: »
    What if somebody builds a bonfire with islamic / jihadist flags I could nearly bet it would be taken down in minutes even though they are killing & raping at will

    And it would be all over the news

    The hypocrisy of it all

    There was one this year that had what looked like an ISIS flag on it.

    Found it!

    bt_1007KS17_25.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    lol Islamic State fleg

    Funnily enough, I seen last night these boyo's were burning the EC fleg too.

    The last crowd of fundamentalist fascist bigots I seen doing that was the Islamic State themselves

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Wasnt there one where they used the flag of some african nation that looks like the irish flag?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Wasnt there one where they used the flag of some african nation that looks like the irish flag?

    That's almost a meme at this stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    Wasnt there one where they used the flag of some african nation that looks like the irish flag?

    The poor Ivory Coast lads, innocent victims in all of this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    I'm amazed they allowed Blue pallets to be included. They could be Glasgow Rangers pallets

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Wasnt there one where they used the flag of some african nation that looks like the irish flag?
    Was that not Willie Frazer on some of his escapades?

    When it comes to loyalists and stupidity, the stories are endless.


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