So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

OldMrBrennan83 · 11-07-2017 11:54PM

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The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 12:12AM

I personally think an semi duoautonomous nine counties, plus Sligo and Leitrim if they want to opt in, getting ten billion each from the south and the Brits, would be something we all could live with.

Anyone have Bill Clinton's number?

end of the road · 12-07-2017 12:17AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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they will have to pay the doctor when the nhs is privatized and sold off for a pound by the tories. britain doesn't want them and the buying off of the undemocratic unionist party is not going down very well in britain, it only has support from a few tory and brexit extremists who don't care as long as the tories are in power and labour aren't.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 12:30AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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That's why they keep voting in more and more numbers for the party which has the principle objective of unification I suppose. :rolleyes:

endacl · 12-07-2017 12:37AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Partitionist laziness never worked before and will not work now or into the future.
This is everyone on the island's problem.

Not my problem...

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2017 12:38AM

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FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 12:44AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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Demeaning people with trite clichés won't make the inevitable go away.

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2017 12:46AM

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Charles Babbage · 12-07-2017 12:50AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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SInce the 26 counties is more prosperous, the comparison will hardly be an unfavourable one. Personally my car tax and insurance together is about €800, about what I paid for insurance alone in NI 20 years ago.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 12:52AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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Not interested in a discussion with somebody whose depth of knowledge has been garnered from the likes of the Mail or the Indo.
Have you anything to offer on the current displays by bigots and sectarian dinosaurs?
The subject of the thread in other words, not your personal prejudice.

Junkyard Tom · 12-07-2017 12:53AM

I see some of the bonfire engineers had the sense to light the really tall ones half way up and others were too dumb to understand (or didn't care) about physics.

instagram.com

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2017 12:55AM

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FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 01:00AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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More clichéd nonsense. Of course it can change. Look how marching has changed when the people who want normality are backed by those with the power to enforce change and respect.
They only did that because they were forced to.

Lazy attitudes like yours should be resisted.

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2017 01:02AM

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FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 01:06AM

Patww79 wrote: »

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By law. Enforcing it.
And by pressuring the OO to clean their act up, dissociate themselves completely from it and penalise the DUP or any party for endorsing it in any way by word or attendance.
That would be a long overdue start.

Richard Hillman · 12-07-2017 01:09AM

citytillidie wrote: »

if it is about Protestant culture how come other countries such as Netherlands, Germany with large Protestant majority not have such bonfires :pac:

It is to commemorate the lighting of bonfires on the 11th of July along the bank's of Belfast to help navigate the way for King Billys ships for the glorious 12th

Junkyard Tom · 12-07-2017 01:32AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

the glorious 12th

They're celebrating the battle of a (supposedly gay) King who was supported by the Pope, that's location is now in a constitutional republic they hate.

Woo hoo!

citytillidie · 12-07-2017 01:40AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is to commemorate the lighting of bonfires on the 11th of July along the bank's of Belfast to help navigate the way for King Billys ships for the glorious 12th

Being from Northern Ireland i know what the bonfires are for. Just seeing comments of how it is Protestant culture and extension of their religion to do it. I was simply asking of it is Protestant culture why don't others do it

batistuta9 · 12-07-2017 01:53AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's why they keep voting in more and more numbers for the party which has the principle objective of unification I suppose. :rolleyes:

If you think catholics in the north would join the south you haven't a clue

steddyeddy · 12-07-2017 06:59AM

batistuta9 wrote: »

If you think catholics in the north would join the south you haven't a clue

Let's put it this way. At best they're neutral. Wait for Brexit to kick in and see what happens.

whisky_galore · 12-07-2017 08:41AM

To be fair, they build more impressive bonfires than the crowd down here.

Here we have a random selection of tyres, the obligatory mattress/sofa and perhaps a (non combustible) shopping trolley.

Guess that's the Protestant work-ethic for you...

smurgen · 12-07-2017 09:12AM

Love how little coverage it all got in the independent. Few videos of the bonfires and an article on Scott Sinclair. They hate to show anything that portrays Sinn Fein or Republicanism as the milder, more rational side in the North

seamus · 12-07-2017 09:32AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Failing that just get the +50% vote for unification and pull the plaster off quickly.

Eh, no thanks.

I don't want to force the other 49% to join a country they don't want to be part of. Peace and safety on the island is more important than the colour of some flags or where a border line is drawn.

Come back to me with a two-thirds majority and then you might be onto something.

whisky_galore · 12-07-2017 09:34AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Failing that just get the +50% vote for unification and pull the plaster off quickly.

Bet everyone up there would love to be cared for by our tanking health service.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 09:38AM

At least The Irish Times is facing up to the real issues still facing us on the island this morning.

Andy Pollack wrote:

McGuinness accused First Minister Arlene Foster of “deep-seated arrogance” and the DUP of rejecting his attempts to reach out to unionists, of “shameful disrespect” to women, gay people and ethnic minorities, and “crude and crass bigotry” to Irish language speakers.

In a follow-up RTÉ interview, McGuinness said there were many people in the DUP who “hate anything to do with Irish nationalism and Irish republicanism.”

As somebody who began studying the DUP more than 30 years ago (in the course of researching a biography of the late Ian Paisley), I recognise the truth in all these charges. I had hoped that their antiquated prejudices would have begun to diminish as a realisation that they had to share their divided little society with their nationalist neighbours started to dawn on unionists in a new century.

It is disappointing that the deep and overlapping anti-Irish and anti-Catholic bigotry of so many DUP-supporting unionists appears to still play a significant role in Northern life and politics.

Inherently superior

Back in 1986, I wrote about the people who followed Paisley as follows: “They believed they were inherently superior to their Roman Catholic neighbours because of their religion. They were ‘born again’ Christians, living in the ‘light’ of pure Protestantism, free men who communed with God without the interference of priests or man-made rituals. Catholics, on the other hand, were benighted and ignorant souls who were enslaved by the ‘darkness’ of Roman superstition, the idolatry of the Mass, and the rule of the papal anti-christ.

“Such a view tallied perfectly with the superiority they felt anyway as the descendants of the people who had ‘civilised’ Ulster. Thus the underprivileged position of Northern Catholics was nothing to do with injustice: quite the opposite – it was living proof of God’s justice in rewarding those who followed the true religion.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-catholic-bigotry-of-many-in-dup-still-significant-1.2982216?mode=amp

firemansam4 · 12-07-2017 09:38AM

Patww79 wrote:

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You may have a point at the moment, but things may change in the future, lets not forget that NI is heavily subsidised from the rest of the UK.
If in the future the economic argument to stay in the UK becomes less of an issue and there becomes a much larger catholic majority up there, then I think they may vote for a united Ireland.
And this hate fest every year will be one reason to persuade them to do so.

steddyeddy · 12-07-2017 09:41AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Bet everyone up there would love to be cared for by our tanking health service.

I live in England and you can bet the NHS won't be free for much longer.

NIMAN · 12-07-2017 09:42AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Bet everyone up there would love to be cared for by our tanking health service.

This is a serious point.

The gp surgeries in the north are packed full of people, constantly. It is a very sick place. My own surgery in Derry has approx 3 weeks waitinf list to see a GP. And from talking to other work colleagues, their local surgeries are all the same.

If there was a UI tomorrow, we would need to treble the health budget to have any chance of coping, and I'd guess that wouldn't even be enough.

And that's even before we talk about the huge number of unemployed and long term unemployable, which will massively increase our social welfare bill.

gooch2k9 · 12-07-2017 09:42AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I live in England and you can bet the NHS won't be free for much longer.

Sure up in the north there are areas where local GP centres have shut, reduced hours in others. Apparently money is there but because Stormont isn't up it can't be allocated.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 09:45AM

seamus wrote: »

Eh, no thanks.

I don't want to force the other 49% to join a country they don't want to be part of. Peace and safety on the island is more important than the colour of some flags or where a border line is drawn.

Come back to me with a two-thirds majority and then you might be onto something.

The entire Unionist community is not bigoted and anti Irish - woman - and LGBT.

Many protestants were against partition at the time. Because it didn't make any sense.
You will, as the subsidy diminishes and Brexit takes it's death hold on northern Ireland see this opinion re-emerge.

So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

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