Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Elvisjuice · 03-07-2017 11:20AM

Rocko wrote: »

I can't believe match tickets r still available for d 3rd test

just had a look at ticket prices a normal seat with unrestricted view is nearly 300 euro!! jesus

swiwi_ · 03-07-2017 12:53PM

bilston wrote: »

If the Lions win on Saturday there will be at least 15 new additions to that bracket.

15 guys who played in a winning test in SA in 2009 and in a winning test in Australia in 2013 and in a winning test in NZ in 2017 (but not last weekend, since only AWJ makes the list).

Looks like a few Schmidt selection curveballs coming out way.

Else you need to see if you've understood it correctly??

Ooh if you mean greatest lions then I sort of suppose. But some players are better than others and will be remembered as better. If the lions win the biggest memory will be that Gatland was the coach. Will take some humble pie around here I suppose.

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 12:57PM

There's one thing that's certain. If the Lions do pull off a win this weekend people will still find a way to argue that Gatland is a poor coach!

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 02:02PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's one thing that's certain. If the Lions do pull off a win this weekend people will still find a way to argue that Gatland is a poor coach!

If the Lions win, I will hold my hands up that hes a amazing coach if not I will stick to my mandate that hes over rated

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 02:06PM

irishman86 wrote: »

If the Lions win, I will hold my hands up that hes a amazing coach if not I will stick to my mandate that hes over rated

What if they lose a close game by a point?

Or what if they win a close game by a point?

It could be effectively the same standard of performance that produces either result.

Burkie1203 · 03-07-2017 02:11PM

irishman86 wrote: »

If the Lions win, I will hold my hands up that hes a amazing coach if not I will stick to my mandate that hes over rated

Over rated? This is a multiple grand slam/6n winning coach who also has won both european cups and 3 premierships with wasps.

He also has a lions series win in australia as well as a shot at a series win in NZ.

That some CV for someone over rated.

03-07-2017 02:15PM

3 6Ns incl. 2 Slams
1 Lions tour
3 Premierships
1 HEC
1 Challenge Cup

Is there another coach in the NH who can match that at all? Schmidt is approaching it but for the small matter of a Slam and a Lions tour. Even winning a test down in NZ is a major achievement for any team.

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 02:18PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What if they lose a close game by a point?

Or what if they win a close game by a point?

It could be effectively the same standard of performance that produces either result.

If its within a score I will admit it

bilston · 03-07-2017 02:19PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

If the Lions win on Saturday there will be at least 15 new additions to that bracket.

15 guys who played in a winning test in SA in 2009 and in a winning test in Australia in 2013 and in a winning test in NZ in 2017 (but not last weekend, since only AWJ makes the list).

Looks like a few Schmidt selection curveballs coming out way.

Else you need to see if you've understood it correctly??

Ooh if you mean greatest lions then I sort of suppose. But some players are better than others and will be remembered as better. If the lions win the biggest memory will be that Gatland was the coach. Will take some humble pie around here I suppose.

If the Lions win a series in NZ then they will be rightfully acclaimed to be amongst the greatest Lions ever.

I'm surprised that would even be open to debate???

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 02:19PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

3 6Ns incl. 2 Slams
1 Lions tour
3 Premierships
1 HEC
1 Challenge Cup

Is there another coach in the NH who can match that at all? Schmidt is approaching it but for the small matter of a Slam and a Lions tour. Even winning a test down in NZ is a major achievement for any team.

I guess McCall is one of the aul time greats using that logic. The same Lions tour he should have lost if not for a slipped kick, its funny how people so easily forget

thomond2006 · 03-07-2017 02:20PM

Ah you may not like his methods but he's got an excellent record. His success with Wales has been despite an under-performing and often infighting regional system. Compare that with the harmony between provinces and the national team in Ireland.

Having said that I don't really 'rate' that Lions win in 2013. That Aussie team was poor enough with a head coach who was on the way out. The Lions fell into an advantageous situation.

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 02:22PM

irishman86 wrote: »

I guess McCall is one of the aul time greats using that logic.

McCall has never won anything at international level, let alone a grand slam. But maybe we'll get lucky and by the time he's finished he will have a similar record, and hopefully that will have come with Ireland.

03-07-2017 02:25PM

irishman86 wrote: »

I guess McCall is one of the aul time greats using that logic.

Mark McCall?

Mark McCall who has never coached at international level? What?

The same Lions tour he should have lost if not for a slipped kick, its funny how people so easily forget

What's funnier is your bizarre attempt to rewrite history here. They won the tour, he was head coach, end of story.

bilston · 03-07-2017 02:25PM

irishman86 wrote: »

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

3 6Ns incl. 2 Slams
1 Lions tour
3 Premierships
1 HEC
1 Challenge Cup

Is there another coach in the NH who can match that at all? Schmidt is approaching it but for the small matter of a Slam and a Lions tour. Even winning a test down in NZ is a major achievement for any team.

I guess McCall is one of the aul time greats using that logic. The same Lions tour he should have lost if not for a slipped kick, its funny how people so easily forget

Domestically McCall is probably more successful than Gatland as he has won Europe twice and has 2 Premiership titles and 1 Celtic League title to his name. Maybe he will get a chance with Ireland once Joe packs it in but I doubt it.

turnikett1 · 03-07-2017 02:27PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

3 6Ns incl. 2 Slams
1 Lions tour
3 Premierships
1 HEC
1 Challenge Cup

Is there another coach in the NH who can match that at all? Schmidt is approaching it but for the small matter of a Slam and a Lions tour. Even winning a test down in NZ is a major achievement for any team.

Don't forget a WC semi that arguably should've been a final. I've said it here before but I've never understood the hate directed towards Gatland. Is it a meme? Did Gatland cuckold someone? I just don't get it...

Boscoirl · 03-07-2017 02:31PM

13man line out

aloooof · 03-07-2017 02:31PM

bilston wrote: »

If the Lions win a series in NZ then they will be rightfully acclaimed to be amongst the greatest Lions ever.

I'm surprised that would even be open to debate???

I think the confusion here is that Swiwi was referencing AWJ being in a Lions great bracket of only the 7th player to have test wins against each of SA, NZ and Oz. Don't think anyone's saying if they won on Saturday they wouldn't be considered Lions greats.

Burkie1203 · 03-07-2017 02:34PM

irishman86 wrote: »

I guess McCall is one of the aul time greats using that logic. The same Lions tour he should have lost if not for a slipped kick, its funny how people so easily forget

A slipped kick which was on the absolute limit of the takers range.

History tells us Gatland is a highly successful coach. He didnt fluke all them trophies.

Refusal to acknowledge that shows a lack brains really

aloooof · 03-07-2017 02:35PM

Anyone any thoughts on changes to the 23 for the weekend? Jack McGrath for Mako is the obvious one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Elliot Daly drop out of the 15 either tbh.

03-07-2017 02:40PM

aloooof wrote: »

Anyone any thoughts on changes to the 23 for the weekend? Jack McGrath for Mako is the obvious one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Elliot Daly drop out of the 15 either tbh.

I don't see him leaving out Daly at this point, he hasn't been prominent but similarly he hasn't cost the Lions anything either, he knows his exact shape in defence, Kinsella highlighted him knowing when to drop back and when to push up, etc. Did well for the wonder try too tbf so if he's given the ball he can do something with it.

McGrath should come in imo, was excellent when he came on and Mako was so braindead he doesn't deserve to start again.

dub_skav · 03-07-2017 02:56PM

irishman86 wrote: »

I guess McCall is one of the aul time greats using that logic. The same Lions tour he should have lost if not for a slipped kick, its funny how people so easily forget

But for a different result on a game ending kick he could have overseen a whitewash on that tour, easily forgotten indeed.

To look at one individual moment/game is never illustrative of anything, but if we look at the totality of Gatland's achievements it is fair to say that he must be doing something right

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 03:00PM

dub_skav wrote: »

But for a different result on a game ending kick he could have overseen a whitewash on that tour, easily forgotten indeed.

To look at one individual moment/game is never illustrative of anything, but if we look at the totality of Gatland's achievements it is fair to say that he must be doing something right

Also would have prevented Ireland's grand slam in 2009 but for a different result on another kick

Tigerandahalf · 03-07-2017 03:09PM

Great win for the Lions.

As I thought, if the Lions were to win the weather conditions would be poor and Beauden Barrett's very few weaknesses would be shown up - goalkicking and controlling the territory with kicks into touch or close to.

Dagg had a nightmare at fullback and the 2 wingers need go forward ball. Surprised Hansen didn't bring on Cruden earlier and put Barrett to full back but I guess he had to mind his subs after SBW got sent off. Plus he probably thought they could close the game out.

The Lions were really poor in truth and the 2 tries were poor concessions by NZ. They have shown guts but if it is a dry day next Saturday NZ should win easily.

molloyjh · 03-07-2017 03:14PM

For all the talk about Gatland lets not also forget he has a terrible record against SH opposition. His Lions series victory was over the worst Aussie team in a long, long time and was only convincing in the last Test. In fact they came perilously close to losing that series in the first two. And the one win against NZ came against 14 men, in ideal conditions for the Lions, with Barrett missing a good few kicks at goal and still needed a late and lucky penalty decision.

He's clearly a good coach. But he also has his limitations. He seems to have figured out the NH game and has seen real success up here, but he's needed more than his fair share of luck against SH teams any time he's managed to beat them.

Buer · 03-07-2017 03:40PM

aloooof wrote: »

Anyone any thoughts on changes to the 23 for the weekend? Jack McGrath for Mako is the obvious one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Elliot Daly drop out of the 15 either tbh.

We've all been expecting Daly to be ditched but it hasn't happened and I don't think it's going to happen now. North was the only man who was going to take his spot and he's gone.

Halfpenny was the other potential option but Farrell kicked very well on Saturday which pretty much eliminates the case for Halfpenny.

I think McGrath will start. Maybe a change on the bench that we're not expecting such as Tipuric or someone else coming in for Nowell. All much of a muchness given they don't appear to trust much beyond their preferred 20 or so players.

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 03:42PM

I could mayyybe see Nowell come on from Daly because he's shown the best form of any of the options in recent weeks. But Daly is there now and was completely serviceable in the 2nd test. I would still be very worried about him defensively after the 1st test and I'd personally much prefer Nowell.

Buer · 03-07-2017 03:43PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I could mayyybe see Nowell come on from Daly because he's shown the best form of any of the options in recent weeks. But Daly is there now and was completely serviceable in the 2nd test. I would still be very worried about him defensively after the 1st test and I'd personally much prefer Nowell.

Nowell on and gave away a stupid penalty which I think will put an end to his chances of a start.

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 03:48PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

McCall has never won anything at international level, let alone a grand slam. But maybe we'll get lucky and by the time he's finished he will have a similar record, and hopefully that will have come with Ireland.

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

Mark McCall?

Mark McCall who has never coached at international level? What?

What's funnier is your bizarre attempt to rewrite history here. They won the tour, he was head coach, end of story.

Hes won more European cups than Gats, I disagree I dont think he is a top coach and yes he won the Australia tour because of a slipped kick no re writing history there at all buddy

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 03:49PM

bilston wrote: »

Domestically McCall is probably more successful than Gatland as he has won Europe twice and has 2 Premiership titles and 1 Celtic League title to his name. Maybe he will get a chance with Ireland once Joe packs it in but I doubt it.

I said that myself regarding McCall. I asked before did he leave Ulster on bad terms

aloooof · 03-07-2017 03:49PM

Personally, I'd love to see Henderson get in the 23 (maybe as backrow cover?) but given Gatland's lack of use of the bench, coupled with Lawes' performance off the bench on Saturday, I'm not sure he'd see any gametime anyways.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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