Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dairy chit chat II

1…9899101103104…328

Comments

  • #3002
    Mooooo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Fook it. Was the bull bought in?

    No home bred, was with the cows only 2.5yrs old. Must test the rest now just stopped for dinner


  • #3003
    orm0nd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    Sorry to hear MJ & Moooo. on a slightly sadder note I'm sure most of you will have heard by now that Donal Murphy has died. He done great work while in ICMSA


  • #3004
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    orm0nd wrote: »
    Sorry to hear MJ & Moooo. on a slightly sadder note I'm sure most of you will have heard by now that Donal Murphy has died. He done great work while in ICMSA

    He certainly was a stalwart.

    I couldn't help being amused at the following quote from him (from his obituary in the Independent) discussing dairy farming at the beginning of the 70's when he began his role.
    "If a farmer had a herd of 18 cows he was regarded as a substantial dairyman. Yields were about 700-800 gallons but it was all mixed farming with the young stock kept on at least to yearlings or year and half old and most farmers kept anything from two to twelve sows" he added recalling the state of Irish farming the early seventies.

    "A farmer was lucky to be making £100 a year per cow. If he had an income of £1,400 from a herd of 14 cows he was regarded as being very well off. He was looked upon as a top farmer" said Donal with a smile at how times have changed for the better.

    For those without a handy inflation calculator - £100 punt in 1971 is worth €1510 in today's money - and in 1971 the acre the cow was standing on along with all those pigs would have cost about £350..

    Plus ca change, plus cest le meme chose!


  • #3005
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    So it was about 3.5 times the profit from a cow could buy an acre of land.

    If you don't want to be depressed don't look at this.
    http://www.ipav.ie/sites/default/files/land_prices_1901_-_2007_1.pdf

    Even I can remember land being sold around here for £1000/acre in 88 and everyone said it was dear.

    Last bit of land came up for sale around here a few weeks ago made e25,000/acre bought by a cattle farmer for farming.


  • #3006
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    So it was about 3.5 times the profit from a cow could buy an acre of land.

    If you don't want to be depressed don't look at this.
    http://www.ipav.ie/sites/default/files/land_prices_1901_-_2007_1.pdf

    Even I can remember land being sold around here for £1000/acre in 88 and everyone said it was dear.

    Last bit of land came up for sale around here a few weeks ago made e25,000/acre bought by a cattle farmer for farming.

    But it seems if you had bought land in 85, it was half the value in 86...

    Did land trebled in value from 2005 to 2006?
    Ah, I see 2005 is CSO figure, bad 2006 is a farmers journal figure based in 15 counties - so maybe they aren't very comparable...

    Last I heard for land around here was last summer at around 17k / acre... was a tillage lad bought it...
    You'd wonder how lads can justify paying, but they obviously can and do...


  • Advertisement
  • #3007
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Username John wrote: »
    You'd wonder how lads can justify paying, but they obviously can and do...

    Reasons used for justification are...

    It's money in the bank. Land won't fall in value.
    God is not making anymore land in the parish.
    This sfp needs to be spent on something.
    Herself/himself has a good civil service job so I can afford this.
    I'm buying this land because that fecker Murphy outbid me the last time and it ain't happening again.
    I've two sons and they both wear wellies.
    Those Kerry shares have done well for me.
    The motorway has just took 5 acres off me.
    The price of milk, beef, tillage will never drop again. Even if it does the sfp will save me.
    I'd go mad and think wicked thoughts if I was idle and shur it's a nice fixer upper.;)


  • #3008
    cute geoge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    I think the atrocious weather in 85/86 accounted for it dropping in value those years .I can remember the best land around here sold for £2000-2500/acre in some of those years yet the cso value would be less then half that ,tells alot about stats.
    I know good land hit 20 k in 06/07 but f.j. figure at 26k is mad does this include building land and forestry land


  • #3009
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Reasons used for justification are...

    It's money in the bank. Land won't fall in value.
    God is not making anymore land in the parish.
    This sfp needs to be spent on something.
    Herself/himself has a good civil service job so I can afford this.
    I'm buying this land because that fecker Murphy outbid me the last time and it ain't happening again.
    I've two sons and they both wear wellies.
    Those Kerry shares have done well for me.
    The motorway has just took 5 acres off me.
    The price of milk, beef, tillage will never drop again. Even if it does the sfp will save me.
    I'd go mad and think wicked thoughts if I was idle and shur it's a nice fixer upper.;)

    The one I hear most often is "we never lost money on land"

    Which, more often than not, is true in most of the Western world over the last few generations - but those also happen to have been generations where the impact of fractional reserve banking together with industrialization has seen pretty sustained inflation in the nominal value of money.

    On top of which the last few years in particular have seen very fast inflation in the value of agricultural land, to levels which I think cannot possibly tolerate the more normal interest rates which will surely return sometime in the next decade or two.

    I wonder what rents would have been in 1971? given the interest rates at the time I'm guessing around £20 an acre on a land value of £150 - someone might well know better than me. If I'm right in my guess then the profitable cow of 1971 paid 5 acres rent, which is not a million miles away from the profitable cow of 2017. Which means? 1. A massive amount of the assumed prosperity since joining the EU in 1973 has simply been the nominal effect of inflation (industrial wages bear this out too) and - maybe more importantly - that 2. The economics of dairying haven't changed as much as we think, provided that we leave the (possibly anomalous) capital price of land out of it.


  • #3010
    The part time boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭The part time boy


    Time to sell Land I say !! Can these prices last ? !


  • #3011
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,260 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The dairy cow may have held her value. It's the other commodities that have taken the hit. A sow was as good as cow in the 70s. Back further in the 1950s, many good tillage farms were bought and paid for themselves from crops and were then converted to dairy enterprises.


  • Advertisement
  • #3012
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    kowtow wrote: »
    The one I hear most often is "we never lost money on land"

    Which, more often than not, is true in most of the Western world over the last few generations - but those also happen to have been generations where the impact of fractional reserve banking together with industrialization has seen pretty sustained inflation in the nominal value of money.

    On top of which the last few years in particular have seen very fast inflation in the value of agricultural land, to levels which I think cannot possibly tolerate the more normal interest rates which will surely return sometime in the next decade or two.

    I wonder what rents would have been in 1971? given the interest rates at the time I'm guessing around £20 an acre on a land value of £150 - someone might well know better than me. If I'm right in my guess then the profitable cow of 1971 paid 5 acres rent, which is not a million miles away from the profitable cow of 2017. Which means? 1. A massive amount of the assumed prosperity since joining the EU in 1973 has simply been the nominal effect of inflation (industrial wages bear this out too) and - maybe more importantly - that 2. The economics of dairying haven't changed as much as we think, provided that we leave the (possibly anomalous) capital price of land out of it.

    Around a half tonne of barley per acre would have been the mark from early sixties to eec subsidies in mid seventies according to old diaries here. You wouldn't be a million miles off with your £20 figure for early seventies. Your inflation figure would depend on which enterprise you're measuring against rents. From a grain point of view rents are up to three times higher now.


  • #3013
    mf240
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭mf240


    Farmers buying land are a bit like squirrels collecting nuts.

    We're not sure why exactly but we're going to do it anyway.


  • #3014
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    My inflation figure was the CPI/ RPI equivalent, general cost of living rather than agriculture.

    Half a tonne of barley rented an acre then... Or the profit from 200 odd gallons of milk (A quarter of a cow?)


  • #3015
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    kowtow wrote: »
    My inflation figure was the CPI/ RPI equivalent, general cost of living rather than agriculture.

    Half a tonne of barley rented an acre then... Or the profit from 200 odd gallons of milk (A quarter of a cow?)

    Roughly yes. Hard working early adopters of new tech who pushed output really cleaned up. They had to be stopped.


  • #3016
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    mf240 wrote: »
    Farmers buying land are a bit like squirrels collecting nuts.

    We're not sure why exactly but we're going to do it anyway.

    From my experience the biggest advantage to buying is the pressure to preform


  • #3017
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    freedominacup wrote: »
    Roughly yes. Hard working early adopters of new tech who pushed output really cleaned up. They had to be stopped.

    To the extent that the market price of land has anything to do with yield, it is drawn towards the yield of the top performers - the theoretical output.

    There's a weird natural justice in that which is depressing. Work away hard and perform at the top of your game, and your lazy neighbors children reap the benefits because you have to pay up for his land.

    Or alternatively, we are all paying a price today for land which only tomorrows robots will be able to farm profitably.

    In the end it's a bit like the endless debate on the housing bubble - I'm sick of hearing endless talk of supply and demand. It's not about supply and demand - at least not the supply and demand for accommodation.

    Housing, like land to farmers, is seen as a financial investment for tomorrow as much as it is a profitable or useful asset today. Prices are driven by fear and greed - greed to capture as much of the asset as possible and make sure everyone in the family has some (the 'housing ladder') and fear that if they don't buy now they'll never get any or will miss out on some future benefit. Competing for financial investments yielding 3% with investors who are borrowing at 0.5% - for the time being - is a risky proposition.


  • #3018
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    K.G. wrote: »
    From my experience the biggest advantage to buying is the pressure to preform

    There's nothing like an impending bank repayment to focus a farmer on profits.


  • #3019
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    cute geoge wrote: »
    I think the atrocious weather in 85/86 accounted for it dropping in value those years .I can remember the best land around here sold for £2000-2500/acre in some of those years yet the cso value would be less then half that ,tells alot about stats.
    I know good land hit 20 k in 06/07 but f.j. figure at 26k is mad does this include building land and forestry land

    Land hit 3000/acre in the early eighties but could be bought at 1000/acre by '86 when interes rates hit 20%
    Land near here that made over 33000/acre in 07 was sold 2 years ago for 8000/acre,lots of land made over 30000/acre round here.....none of it building land
    There's also land beside me here that made 50000/acre......just a neglected field now


  • #3020
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,810 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    How long does it take to get sensitivity results ? Will be starting drying off in a few weeks


  • #3021
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    rangler1 wrote: »
    Land hit 3000/acre in the early eighties but could be bought at 1000/acre by '86 when interes rates hit 20%
    Land near here that made over 33000/acre in 07 was sold 2 years ago for 8000/acre,lots of land made over 30000/acre round here.....none of it building land
    There's also land beside me here that made 50000/acre......just a neglected field now
    What's so special about that land around you making that kind of money.... Do they all want to be your neighbour.


  • Advertisement
  • #3022
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    fepper wrote: »
    What's so special about that land around you making that kind of money.... Do they all want to be your neighbour.

    some people thought they'd never see a poor day again in the early part of the century.
    The ten acres beside me that made 500000 wasnt great land, I'd have more clay on 3 acres of my own land


  • #3023
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    The part time boy wrote: »
    Time to sell Land I say !! Can these prices last ? !

    Kinda in a quandary here as to whether to lease or sell the rest of my place...I'll never farm it again any way, but money yields nothing


  • #3024
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    None of business but i have oftenthought of guy in limerick that featured in the journal could be 15 years ago.the jist of the story was he onky had 50k quota and 100 acres so he sold 50 acres and mulked his 50 cows on it and invested in shares etc.often wondered how he got on


  • #3025
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    rangler1 wrote: »
    Kinda in a quandary here as to whether to lease or sell the rest of my place...I'll never farm it again any way, but money yields nothing

    This is it - sell it, but then do what with the money? If there was specific things you wanted to spend the money on, sell away...

    But I'd be inclined to hold onto it and lease it out. It would still give a nice income...

    But I'd be both risk averse and prob a bad financial person, so really the last person to be giving advise :):)


  • #3026
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,810 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Lad that was milking for me when I was away was complaining cows were giving too much milk :D same amount of cows as last year 15% more milk for June this year, all grazing platform has either been baled or topped .


  • #3027
    visatorro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭visatorro


    K.G. wrote: »
    None of business but i have oftenthought of guy in limerick that featured in the journal could be 15 years ago.the jist of the story was he onky had 50k quota and 100 acres so he sold 50 acres and mulked his 50 cows on it and invested in shares etc.often wondered how he got on

    Jesus there's some horror stories of people that got involved in shares that time. I'd imagine everyone knows people that lost the lot.


  • #3028
    awaywithyou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    What s Ye're protein and butterfat like this year when compared with the same period last year...?? Is it up or down...? Don't care bout figures just wonðering is it higher or lower....

    Protein has been higher than butterfat on a couple of occasions here over past 2 months.... Never happened before..... Butterfat in general isn't great.... Don't think it's ever been so low.... I'm sure it has nothin to do with butter being worth over 6000 a ton...


  • #3029
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    rangler1 wrote:
    Kinda in a quandary here as to whether to lease or sell the rest of my place...I'll never farm it again any way, but money yields nothing


    Is there a new entrant you could lease it to long term?

    Apart from the tax incentives, which are good, I would have thought there is great satisfaction in getting someone started on a career in farming.


  • #3030
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    kowtow wrote: »
    Is there a new entrant you could lease it to long term?

    Apart from the tax incentives, which are good, I would have thought there is great satisfaction in getting someone started on a career in farming.

    The problem of trying to get two incomes out of a sheep farm would be very much here, Plenty round here that another 100 acres would be a great addition but they're doing way better teaching, driving machines,lorries etc, you'd only handicap them,
    No, it looks like I'll be depending on a good milk price into my old age


  • Advertisement
  • #3031
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,810 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    awaywithyou wrote: »
    What s Ye're protein and butterfat like this year when compared with the same period last year...?? Is it up or down...? Don't care bout figures just wonðering is it higher or lower....

    Protein has been higher than butterfat on a couple of occasions here over past 2 months.... Never happened before..... Butterfat in general isn't great.... Don't think it's ever been so low.... I'm sure it has nothin to do with butter being worth over 6000 a ton...
    There have been a few posters on here with the same problem, mine is above last year , at 3.92bf this year and 3.75 last year for June


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement