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Lions vs Hurricanes

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    #242
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Synode wrote: »
    Jaysus I'm no fan of Gatland but that's pretty strong language to be using

    Really :confused: has the world gone that pc


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    #243
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Off course legitimate callups should have been made but once they werent the lads called up were as much lions as every other player. Gats is doing everything he can to destroy the lions.
    Shane Williams & Court in the last series got game time, no excuse not to play the six lads

    They aren't though and Gatland said as much.


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    #244
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Teferi wrote: »
    Great game of rugby. Poite was awful, Gatland was worse.

    I actually feel bad for the Canes. Poite was awful for them, although they should've been given a yellow waaaay before the 2nd half.


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    #245
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    They aren't though and Gatland said as much.

    Im aware he did, but thats what I mean by Gats disgusting style of management. He honestly doesnt give a **** about the Lions history


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    #246
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Best really should be ahead of Owens at the least, but his early yips has cost him. He was very good today, a right nuisance at the breakdown. I hope Henderson can make the 23, to my eyes, he's been the most impressive lock so far on tour. Stander anonymous today, could do with a long rest.


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    #247
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Shame about the YC for Henderson because he was absolutely outstanding up to then. Don't think he can have any complaints with the actual decision but he was unlucky in that Joseph lifted a leg as well. To me he shouldn't even have been on the pitch at that stage but Gatland clearly didn't want to use Hill. Lawes himself had a good game hinself.

    Right now Lawes, Itoje and Henderson are the form picks, but Henderson has no chance of being involved as he will be bucked after that game today.

    Best was very good as well, but I have a feeling Rowntree has a lot of influence on the hooker selection and he doesn't seem to really rate him. But his breakdown work alone means he should be seriously considered.

    I thought Stander played very well, but has little chance of forcing Faletau out.

    Great game of rugby.


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    #248
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Im aware he did, but thats what I mean by Gats disgusting style of management. He honestly doesnt give a **** about the Lions history

    I wouldn't go as far as to say disgusting, but sure.


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    #249
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Im aware he did, but thats what I mean by Gats disgusting style of management. He honestly doesnt give a **** about the Lions history

    What are you on about? If he didn't give a **** about Lions history he would have been throwing caps around like confetti and would have no problem using them from the bench.


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    #250
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    Only guy today who has a chance of breaking through Saturday is Lawes, maybe one of the back 3 too. Henderson was great but he played the full 80 which is a bad omen.


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    #251
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,191 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    No matter what way the tour is managed/selected, there are going to be plenty of people who will stick the boot in and have a right little whinge.

    Gatland calls up guys as tackle bag holders and potential injury cover and doesn't play them? He's wrong and has treated the players badly.

    Gatland calls up guys as tackle bag holders and potential injury cover and does play them? He's wrong and has devalued the jersey.

    Gatland calls up real competitors as additional options? He got the initial selction wrong and doesn't have a clue what players to go with in the test.

    The selections today mean that there are going to be minimal changes to the 23 and that decision was made before anyone stepped onto the field tonight. One or two lads might force their way onto the bench. Lawes looks like he'll be involved in some capacity.


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    #252
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Anyway, winners from the game?

    Lawes showed his addition to the set piece. Best jumper in the squad? With him in the starting line up it may negate the need for POM.

    Hendo back to his best, carrying and clearouts were immense. But looks knackered now, likely to be written off for 2nd test.

    Best had a decent showing I thought, as usual he's a beast on the deck.

    North had his best game to date. Gave away oodles of penalties but he went well in the centre and the additional contact work will stand to him. Won't be surprised to see him feature in the tests.

    Biggar looked good but also knackered now.

    Seymour and Nowell also had decent showings. Halfpenny looked hungry when he came on but some high profile errors will have Garland sweating.

    Biggest losers?

    Henshaw and Payne, tours are over by the looks.

    Stander had another meh game although carried well.

    Joseph needs to be better considering the hype.

    Laidlaw...


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    #253
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,483 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Buer wrote: »
    No matter what way the tour is managed/selected, there are going to be plenty of people who will stick the boot in and have a right little whinge.

    Gatland calls up guys as tackle bag holders and potential injury cover and doesn't play them? He's wrong and has treated the players badly.

    Gatland calls up guys as tackle bag holders and potential injury cover and does play them? He's wrong and has devalued the jersey.

    Gatland calls up real competitors as additional options? He got the initial selction wrong and doesn't have a clue what players to go with in the test.

    The selections today mean that there are going to be minimal changes to the 23 and that decision was made before anyone stepped onto the field tonight. One or two lads might force their way onto the bench. Lawes looks like he'll be involved in some capacity.

    You've just made that up.

    Firstly, the organisation of this tour has been poor, just too many games of too high a standard for a squad of ~40 to be sufficient. I don't think we'll ever see a schedule like this again, it doesn't work.

    Secondly, the call ups were poor on two fronts. Firstly, it makes a mockery of the entire concept to call up players who have no business playing for the Lions. Secondly, calling up such low calibre players is pointless because you can't actually use them. Yea, nobody wants to see extra call ups but at least if they are players you can actually use people can see a point to it.

    As it stands Gatland has flogged his midweek team which has been counter productive. Henderson for example probably put in a man of the match showing but the fact he had to play 80 will see him drop out of the discussion for Saturday.


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    #254
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    What are you on about? If he didn't give a **** about Lions history he would have been throwing caps around like confetti and would have no problem using them from the bench.

    He called them up in the first place was only the lastest example, this is all a way for Gats to show he should have been the All Blacks coach
    He gave Williams a game last year another example of Gats logic


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    #255
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishman86 wrote: »
    He called them up in the first place was only the lastest example, this is all a way for Gats to show he should have been the All Blacks coach
    He gave Williams a game last year another example of Gats logic

    Expand?


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    #256
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    I don't see why he couldn't have had the test bench players on the bench again today. It's not as if they'd be overworked.


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    #257
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Expand?

    Its common knowledge he wanted it and didnt get it


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    #258
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Its common knowledge he wanted it and didnt get it

    Please tell me how the 6 players he called up from Scotland and Wales are related to him supposedly wanting the All Blacks gig at some point in history.


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    #259
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    I don't see why he couldn't have had the test bench players on the bench again today. It's not as if they'd be overworked.

    Because the midweek games are irrelevant and those players are in line to be involved in a game that is actually relevant on Saturday.


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    #260
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Just thinking while it may be that his Lions tour is over now (which would be harsh), Ireland and Ulster are going to benefit big time from Henderson's experience in NZ.

    He has to play second row for Ulster though. I think this is why Nucifora has allowed Ulster to sign a second NIQ back row.


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    #261
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,483 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Because the midweek games are irrelevant and those players are in line to be involved in a game that is actually relevant on Saturday.

    The final midweek game is hardly irrelevant given it's his last chance to try and find his best team and have his players find some form.


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    #262
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,191 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    awec wrote: »
    You've just made that up.

    Firstly, the organisation of this tour has been poor, just too many games of too high a standard for a squad of ~40 to be sufficient. I don't think we'll ever see a schedule like this again, it doesn't work.

    Secondly, the call ups were poor on two fronts. Firstly, it makes a mockery of the entire concept to call up players who have no business playing for the Lions. Secondly, calling up such low calibre players is pointless because you can't actually use them. Yea, nobody wants to see extra call ups but at least if they are players you can actually use people can see a point to it.

    As it stands Gatland has flogged his midweek team which has been counter productive. Henderson for example probably put in a man of the match showing but the fact he had to play 80 will see him drop out of the discussion for Saturday.

    Of course I made it up; it's an opinion. That's the point.

    But are you suggesting that if Gatland had called up Cian Healy, Keith Earls, Joe Launchbury, etc. nobody would be say that it's an admission of getting it wrong initially and panicking ahead of the tests? Of course they would.

    In relation to the schedule, that has nothing to do with Gatland. It's set way before he is given the job.

    With respect to "flogging" his miweek team. Who has been flogged? Henderson is probably right up there in terms of match time and has played for approximately 300 minutes on the tour to date. It's a solid amount of game time since arriving but nothing extraordinary.


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    #263
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭Christy42


    awec wrote: »
    The final midweek game is hardly irrelevant given it's his last chance to try and find his best team and have his players find some form.

    Really because none will be back in serious shape to make a starting line up till the third test now which may be meaningless.

    That was a disgrace. Gatland played this game because he had to and no other reason. The size of team required to play this game and the tests properly is too big. That was shown today when more players were obviously required but none of the relevant ability were in NZ and not being rested.


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    #264
    davo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭davo2001


    awec wrote: »
    The final midweek game is hardly irrelevant given it's his last chance to try and find his best team and have his players find some form.

    And so how many players from today will play on Saturday?!


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    #265
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,483 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Really because none will be back in serious shape to make a starting line up till the third test now which may be meaningless.

    That was a disgrace. Gatland played this game because he had to and no other reason. The size of team required to play this game and the tests properly is too big. That was shown today when more players were obviously required but none of the relevant ability were in NZ and not being rested.

    This is avoidable with a proper use of the bench.

    Obviously, the entire 23 playing today was not in contention for Saturday, but a few guys were. Tell them to go out and put in a good 40/50 minutes and then haul them off.


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    #266
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,191 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Its common knowledge he wanted it and didnt get it

    It's common knowledge that the NZRU invited multiple people (including Schmidt) to apply for the job but it was locked down for Steve Hansen.

    Gatland couldn't get himself a head coach position in Super Rugby (but later turned down the Chiefs more recently). He was never in a position to be appointed as NZ coach and he would fully know that.


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    #267
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭Christy42


    awec wrote: »
    This is avoidable with a proper use of the bench.

    Obviously, the entire 23 playing today was not in contention for Saturday, but a few guys were. Tell them to go out and put in a good 40/50 minutes and then haul them off.

    Ah right misunderstood your argument. Thought you were arguing for Gatland and not just the midweek game. Yeah but he still needs a bigger squad to play both games like that in quick succession.


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    #268
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,483 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Ah right misunderstood your argument. Thought you were arguing for Gatland and not just the midweek game. Yeah but he still needs a bigger squad to play both games like that in quick succession.

    Yep, but my other argument is if you have to call up extra players at least call up guys you can actually use. He may as well have stuck a red jersey on a few mannequins and set them on the bench.


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    #269
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Nothing will ever be Gatland's fault.

    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/879643922779086850


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    #270
    BBDBB
    Registered Users Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    It was wrong to select them, but Gatland just compounded the error by not using them.


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    #271
    slingerz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭slingerz


    BBDBB wrote: »
    It was wrong to select them, but Gatland just compounded the error by not using them.

    100% agree no point calling them up if he wasnt going to use them.

    Should have called up the best available and at least utilised them off the bench. He doesnt care about the midweek games when they are a great opportunity to build momentum and morale IMO.


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