Lions vs Hurricanes

Teferi

Teferi wrote: »

Nothing will ever be Gatland's fault.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/879643922779086850

Sorry, but what a thundering cowardly arse he is. Whether he was constrained in what further selections he was allowed or whether it was his call is one thing, but own the bloody decision.

His comments and demeanour are what has devalued the tour.

I also heard he was blaming the yellow card and being down to 14 men despite trying to win a 23 man game with 18/19 players.

irishman86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Please tell me how the 6 players he called up from Scotland and Wales are related to him supposedly wanting the All Blacks gig at some point in history.

I was talking about the Lions job in general buddy, he shows his disdain for the job with the way his selection process worked

irishman86

Buer wrote: »

It's common knowledge that the NZRU invited multiple people (including Schmidt) to apply for the job but it was locked down for Steve Hansen.

Gatland couldn't get himself a head coach position in Super Rugby (but later turned down the Chiefs more recently). He was never in a position to be appointed as NZ coach and he would fully know that.

He never got a chance when the franchises were hiring because hes not considered highly in NZ, his record against the southern hemisphere proves this

Utopia Parkway

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Best really should be ahead of Owens at the least, but his early yips has cost him. He was very good today, a right nuisance at the breakdown. I hope Henderson can make the 23, to my eyes, he's been the most impressive lock so far on tour. Stander anonymous today, could do with a long rest.

Stander looked wrecked for the last month of the regular season. Had a feeling he wouldn't have much of an impact on tour. He needs a long break.

irishman86

Teferi wrote: »

Nothing will ever be Gatland's fault.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/879643922779086850

As I was saying disgusting management of the team

Dave_The_Sheep

You have to feel sorry for the subs not used. Basically told that a player out on their feet is a better option than them and that they devalue the jersey.

Take some bloody responsibility, Gatland.

Buer

I think Gatland is being a little bit of a wind up merchant with the comment that Kinsella selectively chose to quote. Lets look at what he said in the press conference when asked about bench.

“We felt that the players who came in came in for cover. That’s what we’ve done.”

“All along we said it was about those players coming for cover and making sure we gave the 23 as much of a chance to prepare for the Tests as possible.”

I don't agree with his refusal to make more changes in the latter stages, particularly for someone like Gareth Davies who legitimately could be a Lion but the comment appears to be Gatland taking the p*ss out of his critics more than anything.

Jump_In_Jack

Don't like Gatland but agree with not playing "cover" players unless injury dictates otherwise.
Nobody really cares about the results of the mid-week matches so giving the players in the mid-week squad a full match will be good for them.
They won't be needed for the second test but they're only one injury away from being on the bench in the third test, and have plenty of time to recover.
The only player that might get promoted to the 'A' team would be Lawes at the expense of Kruis or AWJ.
Would guess everyone else is safe, but perhaps they might start Itoje or maybe another sub or two from last week might get to start.

typhoony

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Stander looked wrecked for the last month of the regular season. Had a feeling he wouldn't have much of an impact on tour. He needs a long break.

same for Henderson, he looked goosed after 50 minutes today, not the first time I've seen him like that after just one half of rugby.

on Stander and his position with the Ireland team, I think he'll come under serious competition from Conan and Leavy. in fact I think Conan could well overtake Heaslip also

typhoony

just confirms my opinion from 2 weeks ago, he's the worst Lions coach they have ever had

leakyboots

Stander was 'meh' and 'anonymous'... he had the most carries, made the most yards in the pack outside of Henderson, 14 tackles, none missed, didn't give away any penalties unlike the other two backrows. Thought he kept going to the bitter end trucking up dirty ball.

Thought there was a pretty good balance to the backrow, Tipuric just tackled all day (24!) and hit rucks, while he didn't make yards with ball in hand he offloaded plenty, had a fine game. Really think he's a great player, always causes havoc against Munster. Haskell worked his arse off too.

typhoony

leakyboots wrote: »

Stander was 'meh' and 'anonymous'... he had the most carries, made the most yards in the pack outside of Henderson, 14 tackles, none missed, didn't give away any penalties unlike the other two backrows. Thought he kept going to the bitter end trucking up dirty ball.

Thought there was a pretty good balance to the backrow, Tipuric just tackled all day (24!) and hit rucks, while he didn't make yards with ball in hand he offloaded plenty, had a fine game. Really think he's a great player, always causes havoc against Munster. Haskell worked his arse off too.

only Henderson carried the ball with any real effect, the rest just carried for hard yards which don't result in tries only minimal gain line

typhoony

typhoony wrote: »

the rest just carried for hard yards which don't result in tries only minimal gain line

It works well in the pro12 but players need to be able to vary it up at Test level to have a long term impact.

leakyboots

Hmmm... not sure you can just dismiss 'carried for hard yards', they're the yards that suck in and tire out defences. If he wasn't carrying enough ball I'd be saying fair enough, poor game, but he kept going to the well over and over (they all did, not just CJ to be fair). His engine is incredible (and he's not even at full tilt at the moment either)

irishman86

typhoony wrote: »

same for Henderson, he looked goosed after 50 minutes today, not the first time I've seen him like that after just one half of rugby.

on Stander and his position with the Ireland team, I think he'll come under serious competition from Conan and Leavy. in fact I think Conan could well overtake Heaslip also

Conan and Leavy are no way near Stander. Serious blue tinted glasses there
People seem quickly to forget just how good Heaslip is on here

typhoony

irishman86 wrote: »

Conan and Leavy are no way near Stander. Serious blue tinted glasses there
People seem quickly to forget just how good Heaslip is on here

i'm a connacht supporter, heaslip is probably past his best

typhoony

leakyboots wrote: »

Hmmm... not sure you can just dismiss 'carried for hard yards', they're the yards that suck in and tire out defences. If he wasn't carrying enough ball I'd be saying fair enough, poor game, but he kept going to the well over and over (they all did, not just CJ to be fair). His engine is incredible (and he's not even at full tilt at the moment either)

well it's been a failure so far in new zealand, works in the Northern Hemisphere

irishman86

typhoony wrote: »

i'm a connacht supporter, heaslip is probably past his best

My bad , well then I just think you are very wrong :pac:

irishman86

typhoony wrote: »

well it's been a failure so far in new zealand, works in the Northern Hemisphere

You can say the same thing about most players. Farrell for example is probably considered the best 10 in the north doesnt look it now after a long hard season

TomsOnTheRoof

leakyboots wrote: »

Stander was 'meh' and 'anonymous'... he had the most carries, made the most yards in the pack outside of Henderson, 14 tackles, none missed, didn't give away any penalties unlike the other two backrows. Thought he kept going to the bitter end trucking up dirty ball.

Thought there was a pretty good balance to the backrow, Tipuric just tackled all day (24!) and hit rucks, while he didn't make yards with ball in hand he offloaded plenty, had a fine game. Really think he's a great player, always causes havoc against Munster. Haskell worked his arse off too.

Agree 100%. He has regularly topped the stats for the Lions this tour, be they carries, tackles or metres. He's not playing to his usual high standard but he has been flogged mercilessly at the end of a long and hard season all to ensure that Faletau starts the tests (Faletau deserves to start to be fair). I'd say he hasn't gotten more than a week off since the end of the 6 Nations.

For people claiming that he is going to be overtaken in the Irish set up all I can say is eaten bread is soon forgotten. Stander was shortlisted for both the European Player of the Year and the 6 Nations Player of the championship. He was also an integral part of our victory against the All Blacks in November. Now suddenly he has been found out at test level? Rubbish. When Heaslip puts up these kind of numbers he is lauded on here. When he doesn't consistently break the gain line we are told that he is tidying up poor ball. It's the usual myopic nonsense, the same kind which had people claiming that O' Mahony's international career was over. It'd make you wonder at times.

molloyjh

"People" claiming POMs career was over? You mean there was more than one!?

And stats alone prove the sum total of nothing really. A guy can carry ball more than anyone on the park and still be crap because he does so badly and/or takes the wrong options or any other sort of context that frames the stats.

I'm not saying Stander did any of those things, I don't know as I didn't see the game, but anyone who uses stats alone to prove a point has failed to prove the point. And that goes for anything said about Heaslip as much as Stander or anyone else.

AbusesToilets

Stander needs to improve his carrying. He's far too one dimensional presently and has been found out to a certain extent. Injury obviously hasn't helped, but he could do with looking to pass more and get involved in link play.

.ak

Topping the carry stats doesn't mean anything. Another way of looking at them would be to say he's not passing the ball ebough either.

To me he looks like a prop with an 8 on his back currently, not his usual self with dynamism and endeavour about the pitch.

swiwi_

Great game of rugby, although it was the most cheatiest of the Lions displays to date: what gap in the lineout?, what rolling away after the tackle? what kicking or throwing the ball away after every penalty?

2 standout displays

1) Henderson
2) Jordie Barrett

If I was a certain segment of bitter and twisted Irish rugby fan, no doubt I'll be still posting in 2029 when the next NZ Lions tour rolls around about how Henderson deliberately and maliciously targeted Barrett in a pre-ordained spear tackle...but I'm not, so I won't be. Anyone with common decency knows Henderson is not that sort of player, and I prefer to avoid begrudgery and 2-faced hypocrisy.

Anyway, it looks like Lawes will be in the 23 for Saturday, but it should be Henderson. I'd also have Joseph or Nowell there or thereabouts for the 23 shirt.

Burkie1203

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Agree 100%. He has regularly topped the stats for the Lions this tour, be they carries, tackles or metres. He's not playing to his usual high standard but he has been flogged mercilessly at the end of a long and hard season all to ensure that Faletau starts the tests (Faletau deserves to start to be fair). I'd say he hasn't gotten more than a week off since the end of the 6 Nations.

For people claiming that he is going to be overtaken in the Irish set up all I can say is eaten bread is soon forgotten. Stander was shortlisted for both the European Player of the Year and the 6 Nations Player of the championship. He was also an integral part of our victory against the All Blacks in November. Now suddenly he has been found out at test level? Rubbish. When Heaslip puts up these kind of numbers he is lauded on here. When he doesn't consistently break the gain line we are told that he is tidying up poor ball. It's the usual myopic nonsense, the same kind which had people claiming that O' Mahony's international career was over. It'd make you wonder at times.

Stander hasnt been flogged mercilessly any more then anyone else. In fact he has had several weekends off as part of the IRFU player welfare

Also Heaslip was nominated for world player of the year but apparently he should have dropped according to a lot of 'experts' on social media. He is another player who was fairly integral to everything good that happened last year too

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

If I was a certain segment of bitter and twisted Irish rugby fan, no doubt I'll be still posting in 2029 when the next NZ Lions tour rolls around about how Henderson deliberately and maliciously targeted Barrett in a pre-ordained spear tackle...but I'm not, so I won't be. Anyone with common decency knows Henderson is not that sort of player, and I prefer to avoid begrudgery and 2-faced hypocrisy.

Seeing this kind of churlish deflection all over the internet mixed with significant indignation at the mere suggestion of foul play.

It makes you realise that the All Blacks don't have fans and supporters, they have worshippers and disciples.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seeing this kind of churlish deflection all over the internet mixed with significant indignation at the mere suggestion of foul play.

It makes you realise that the All Blacks don't have fans and supporters, they have worshippers and disciples.

Ah come on. Surely you're clever enough to know it's said in jest. I don't know why you'd feel the need to try to turn it into some kind of insult.

Anyway, I'll play along, and am now duly outraged.

Yeah_Right

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seeing this kind of churlish deflection all over the internet mixed with significant indignation at the mere suggestion of foul play.

It makes you realise that the All Blacks don't have fans and supporters, they have worshippers and disciples.

Finally you understand the power of the dark side. Come join us. Embrace the Blackness and experience the joy of winning. A lot.

The real mccoy 91

irishman86 wrote:

People seem quickly to forget just how good Heaslip is on here

Yes not very good at all he will have lost his provincial and international place for next year

irishbucsfan

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Yes not very good at all he will have lost his provincial and international place for next year

Nominated for world player of the year last time around. Not very good at all.