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The Hazards of Belief

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    Isn't Indonesia usually held up as the bastion of moderate islam in the "It's to do with their culture not their religion" argument?

    Indonesian court sentences two gay men to public caning


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Caning is also a punishment for adultery, gambling, drinking alcohol, women who wear tight clothes and men who miss Friday prayers. More than 300 people were caned for such offences last year.
    What about the women who miss Friday prayers, and the men who wear tight trousers? Would they not be caned too, in the interests of equality?

    Apparently Islamic political parties are becoming more popular in Indonesia, which can only increase the likelihood of Sharia Law expanding there.
    At the moment its only practiced (to some extent) in this one province called Aceh, where the above incident happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,864 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    'The Catholic Church has at most 10 years to adapt' says Glenstal monk
    Dr David Barker, responsible for the 2004 Report of the Church in America, refers to the "perceived wisdom that culture change takes 200 years in the church. This is no longer an acceptable point of view; it is an excuse for inaction," he warns. The Catholic Church in Ireland has probably five or, at most, 10 years to take these realities on board before being reduced to a tiny irrelevant minority.

    It's going to become a lot smaller in future one way or the other. I can't imagine much in the way of doctrinal change happening any time soon either.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,864 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    We've got a live one here.

    Hasn't Mark Savage ever heard of the Streisand Effect?

    Ex-election candidate alleges religious discrimination by Google
    A former local election candidate told the High Court on Friday that Google is discriminating against him because of his religious beliefs by refusing to remove posts alleging he is a homophobe.

    Mark Savage, who ran as an Independent in Swords, Co Dublin, in the local elections in 2014, says the allegations that he is a homophobe are untrue.

    He had objected to a thread on Reddit describing him as: "Mark Savage - North County Dublins (sic) homophobic candidate."

    The thread arose from election leaflets handed out during his campaign, which referred to "gay perverts cavorting en flagrante on the beach on broad daylight".

    He said the refusal of Data Protection Commissioner Helen Dixon to order Google to take down the thread showed a failure to comprehend a previous case in which a politician in the Labour Party, which supported a Yes vote in the same-sex marriage referendum, successfully applied for a take-down order.

    He claimed she made her decision "as a favour to the [Labour] political party because it supported a Yes vote, but was not going to give it to this guy who was an election candidate in Swords because he was complaining about inappropriate behaviour by middle-aged men on public beaches in front of young children in broad daylight".

    He said he "did not mind the abuse", but to call him a homophobe, which was not based on fact, was a different matter.

    Time was the likes of him would have been proud to be called a homophobe.

    Perhaps a 'Homophobic Pride March' is in order, for him and his half-dozen like minded individuals :)

    If he complained to the Gardai about inappropriate activities in public places the law does not differentiate between heterosexual and homosexual activity. For some reason known only to him he's turning a (n alleged) public order issue into a homophobia issue.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Roger Ailes, the bilious TV executive who set up Fox News for Robert Murdoch and who provided individuals like Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson and the rest with a platform from which they could degrade the nation, and who resigned from Fox News last year following the filing of multiple charges of sexual harassment, died last Thursday, 18th of May at the age of 77.

    Here's the Slate and the New Yorker on the man and his poisonous legacy:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/18/roger_ailes_is_survived_by_trump_hannity_this_awful_time.html
    http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-roger-ailes-degraded-the-tone-of-public-life-in-america
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-roger-ailes-figured-out

    On hearing of his death, I was reminded of Hitchens comment on the death of the telly-vangelist Jerry Fallwell - "If he'd had an enema, he could have been buried in a matchbox".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    well ok then
    Dr Jagadish Hiremut‏ @Kaalateetham 19h19 hours ago
    More
    Tamil kids & non moslem kids asked to eat lunch in toilets in Malaysia #Secularism #Ramadan #Ramzanfasting

    DBErxJAXkAAolCq.jpg

    DBEryMOXsAERMb2.jpg

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,864 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Some Pavees were getting a bit overexcited out Knock way:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0610/881738-knock-apparition/
    The 14-year-old boy was among a group of people from the travelling community from Britain that travelled to Fatima last month.

    He claimed he experienced visions there and that these would be repeated today.

    A large crowd in the Church of the Apparition in Knock led to fears for the safety of the boy who claimed that he would have a vision.

    The crowd dispersed following intervention by stewards.


    Classy burds or what

    000e2bcf-500.jpg
    000e2bd2-614.jpg

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The crowd dispersed following intervention by stewards.
    They should put up a big sign at the entrance to the shrine; "Move along, nothing to see here. It was all a hoax".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,864 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    recedite wrote: »
    They should put up a big sign at the entrance to the shrine; "Move along, nothing to see here. It was all a hoax".

    "...except for that one in 18-whatever, which was totally real, like."

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Turkey be like "Our kids are too thick so we tell them Allah made the world because it's easier for them to learn"


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/23/turkish-schools-to-stop-teaching-evolution-official-says
    Evolution will no longer be taught in Turkish schools, a senior education official has said, in a move likely to raise the ire of the country’s secular opposition.

    Alpaslan Durmuş, who chairs the board of education, said evolution was debatable, controversial and too complicated for students.

    “We believe that these subjects are beyond their [students] comprehension,” said Durmuş in a video published on the education ministry’s website.

    Durmuş said a chapter on evolution was being removed from ninth grade biology course books, and the subject postponed to the undergraduate period. Another change to the curriculum may reduce the amount of time that students spend studying the legacy of secularism.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,259 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Anyone who thinks that the theory of evolution deals with the origin of the world would be wise not to accuse others of not wishing to engage with science. Just saying'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that the theory of evolution deals with the origin of the world would be wise not to accuse others of not wishing to engage with science. Just saying'.

    oZ8aJ.gif

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that the theory of evolution deals with the origin of the world would be wise not to accuse others of not wishing to engage with science. Just saying'.
    Maybe so, but it certainly deals with the early development of life in the world. You don't have to be a clever kid to understand how evolution works. But it can definitely lead to some confusion when you are also being taught alternative "facts" which are mutually exclusive, and which purport to explain the same result.
    Although, in fairness to the Turks, they are only slightly more extreme than the Irish in this regard :pac:
    The curriculum acknowledges the centrality of the Christian heritage and tradition in the Irish experience and the Christian identity shared by the majority of Irish people....
    Pluralism and freedom of religion;
    “These approaches require teachers to adopt and promote a pluralist approach to religion. This is an approach to religion that goes against the philosophical basis of Catholic religious education. Such a contradiction would place teachers in a very difficult position where conflicting philosophical approaches to religious education would have the potential to create significant confusion.”



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Florida woman who was driving while praying with her eyes closed hits house

    http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/20160711/woman-who-was-driving-while-praying-with-her-eyes-closed-hits-house
    A 28-year-old woman was taken to the hospital for evaluation after driving into a Mary Esther house Thursday morning. The woman told Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office deputies she was praying at the time and had her eyes closed, according to the OCSO.

    The Fort Walton Beach woman was traveling eastbound on Marcia Drive when she failed to stop at a stop sign, went through an intersection and into the yard of a home on Miramar Drive. She tried to back out but got stuck in the sand, the OCSO said.

    She was cited for reckless driving with property damage. No one in the house was injured.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,192 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    You can hardly expect someone who's been dead for 2000 years to grab the wheel, can you? ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,864 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/taoiseach-s-sexual-orientation-not-an-issue-at-clonskeagh-mosque-1.3133212
    The fact that Mr Varadkar is gay gave the visit added symbolism. But Mr Selim stressed it was not a point of controversy. "The [Muslim] community in Ireland are living in Ireland where this is allowed by law."

    While homosexuality was "not blessed by Islam, people here are not ruled by Islam. They are ruled by the law of Ireland." He agreed Muslims in Ireland opposed same-sex marriage because "our interpretation of the family is made of a male and a female", he said.

    "Homosexuality is strictly forbidden in Islam hence it is not practised in the Muslim community, and if it is practiced it is extremely limited," he said. Where it is found and proven "usually Islam calls on forgiveness and people have to be given the benefit of the doubt. It can be forgiven".

    Its practice was "a renunciation of Islam. If they believe what they are doing is wrong and they still practice it they are still Muslims but they are committing a sin", he said.

    As to whether the Taoiseach being gay was then an issue for Muslims at Clonskeagh, he replied: "No, not at all because in Ireland it is permissible. It is the law."

    Asked about cases of gay people being thrown off buildings to their deaths by the extremist Islamist group Isis, Mr Selim said "Isis live in a different context. They have their own understanding and interpretation of Sharia. Sharia law is similar to Irish law, it is entirely dependent on the way you interpret it."

    Far from convinced that Selim would not move our laws a lot closer to ISIS's stance, given half a chance...

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    You can hardly expect someone who's been dead for 2000 years to grab the wheel, can you? ;)

    Jesus take the wheel always amuses me. Sure the fecker wasn't even alive for cars.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Sure the fecker wasn't even alive for cars.
    And he never saw a bicycle either, but people still say "Christ on a bike" :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,259 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Jesus take the wheel always amuses me. Sure the fecker wasn't even alive for cars.
    I'm not sure about that. Does scripture not tell us that the Lord came down in his Triumph?

    (I'll get my coat.)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that. Does scripture not tell us that the Lord came down in his Triumph?

    (I'll get my coat.)

    Hosanna in the Hiace?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam



    As long as I got my plastic Jesus ridin' on the dashboard of my car...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Link not working for me, this one maybe?



    Been some great local cover versions over the year, remember hearing 'Now I got the Holy hat-trick, Jesus, Mary and St Patrick' in a pub in Clare last year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,864 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    ACP aren't too happy

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/crisis-in-irish-catholic-priesthood-revealed-at-meetings-of-clergy-1.3135908
    Eight priests have taken their own lives in the past 10 to 15 years in Ireland, a meeting of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in Cavan has been told.
    Minutes of the latter meeting in Caherconlish quote one attendee as saying: "Our morale is affected because we are on a sinking ship. When will the 'counter-reformation' take place? We’re like an All-Ireland team without a goalie. We need a national confidential priests' helpline. We’re slow to look for help."

    Sorry but I was immediately reminded of the 0898 phone line ad on Fr. Ted :o
    Among reasons given at the Cavan town meeting for the crisis in the Irish Catholic priesthood were living alone, retirement, health issues, sexual abuse accusations, as well as "workload; being gay; clustering; priests rights; bullying; etc."

    As disheartening was that so much work by priests was "for people who have so little contact with the church from First Communions to funerals", the meeting heard. Priests’ confidence "has been eroded when we see so many people going through the motions of faith".

    If they'd rather people not go through the motions then maybe they should say so - and get out of schools, stop recruiting more motion-goers.
    It was claimed priests were "in denial about vocations - not facing reality - we are part of a dying system," and that "we need to unmask and say 'I need help.' There is a great sense of ‘being alone'."

    It was said the Bon Secours Sisters, who managed the controversial Tuam Mother and Baby Home, "did a disservice by not clarifying exactly what happened. They need to do so immediately. It makes our job impossible, especially as we face a storm on abortion next year."

    There was also criticism of how bishops dealt with media at both meetings.

    I can't think of many worse things than devoting all your efforts for your whole life to a cause, only to feel late in life that you were betrayed by your superiors and it was all in vain.

    That said, anyone who chose to stay in chose to stick by the institutional RCC and all its crimes.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    That said, anyone who chose to stay in chose to stick by the institutional RCC and all its crimes.

    At a guess the older 'lifers' are probably institutionalised with little opportunity to get out. Not sure what the prospects are for an ex-priest in his 60s that may not be a home owner or have accommodation.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    smacl wrote: »
    Not sure what the prospects are for an ex-priest in his 60s that may not be a home owner or have accommodation.
    Grim. Hence - I imagine - the problem with suicide.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,192 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Behold Zion Oil & Gas, the publicly-traded oil company which was set up in 2000 to strike black gold in Israel based off a line in Deuteronomy...and hasn't found a single drop of the stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,553 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Why would the writer/ prophet/ whatever of Deuteronomy have any notion of what the value of oil would be thousands of years later?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,468 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    looksee wrote: »
    Why would the writer/ prophet/ whatever of Deuteronomy have any notion of what the value of oil would be thousands of years later?

    Mysterious ways???


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,180 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    looksee wrote: »
    Why would the writer/ prophet/ whatever of Deuteronomy have any notion of what the value of oil would be thousands of years later?


    He wouldn't, at least not petroleum anyway, but olive oil? :D

    Never mind that three Old Testament scholars consulted for this report say the ancient Hebrew word in Deuteronomy is olive oil, not petroleum.


    "This hummus tastes like rubber!" :pac:


This discussion has been closed.
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