The Hazards of Belief

recedite

Hmmm.... like all things Quaker, that evidence is a bit flaky.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Well I think you'll have to cite some evidence that Quakers don't celebrate Easter (or at least that John Cadbury didn't, for some reason)
Otherwise I'll stick with the conventional wisdom.

I'm not aware of any "conventional wisdom" to the effect that Quakers celebrate Easter. There may, of course, be individual Quakers who celebrate Easter, but the Quaker tradition is not to celebrate religious festivals.

Google seems to be aware of this, as evidenced by this, and this, and this, and this, all of which I found on the first page of results for a Google search for "Quakers Easter".

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

...and this, all of which I found on the first page of results for a Google search for "Quakers Easter".

Did you read the first guys answer there?

Well, there certainly is a Biblical basis for the resurrection, and it certainly merits celebration. If I'm a Quaker anymore, I'm a charismatic, liturgical Quaker. So this Holy Week, at the church (non-pastoral) I attend, there was a lot going on. On Thursday, I went to a Maunday Thursday Tenebrae service (service of shadows). On Friday, I went to a Good Friday Silent Retreat at the silent retreat center managed by the church. On Saturday, I attended the Easter Vigil, which involved walking in silence in the 200 acres the church manages with occasional stops for telling a story or singing, ending around a fire with scripture reading, followed by breaking the silence for passing the peace and having apple juice and hot cross buns. This morning, the church held its Easter service in the conference center it manages, which has this beautiful triangular room with mostly glass looking out at nature, instead of the farmhouse living room it usually meets in. It was all wonderful.

Google also throws up this and this

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Today, Quaker groups generally do not have a rigid testimony against their members observing Christmas or other special days. Many Friends churches and meetings have some special observance of Christmas. Practices vary widely[/FONT].
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Some Friends still do not celebrate Christmas as a matter of principle. Many are conflicted, wanting to hold up the testimony that each day is holy but also being drawn to special celebrations and joining with others in communal experiences that mark the season. Friends generally react strongly against the commercialism of the season, and endeavor to reflect the Quaker simplicity testimony in their observances.[/FONT]

Some of the websites give historical accounts of Quakers way back in the 1600s when they agreed with the Puritans that Christmas and Easter festivities should be banned. But even then, it was just the festivities they were against. They still believed in the significance of those days and they would have marked them with relevant bible readings etc..

smokingman

I was in a tesco car park in Arklow tonight waiting on my other half to get a few bits and two kids, about 12 and 7, came up to my car asking if I knew about "the good word of our lord". It was dark and they accused me of being "one of those atheists" when I asked where their parents were and why they were approaching strangers in a car park at night.

Even my own kids (all under 7) were incredulous that their parents or teachers didn't tell them about "stranger danger".

....seriously....wtf

recedite

On the one hand, putting your kids at risk.
On the other hand, saving the souls of strangers.
The dilemma of the true believer just trying to do the Lord's work.

Remember, Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his only son Isaac. The bible teaches us this.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

The owners of the Supreme Court in Russia have asked the SC to determine whether the Jehovah Witnesses constitute an "extremist organization"

Things not looking good for the JW's - at least three state-controlled television outlets reported on a small crowd of JW's which showed up outside the court last Wednesday morning, the day of the hearing.

Only it turned out - in true Russian style - that the "supporters" were actually students from a nearby university who'd been told to show up by an unknown man who'd also told them to avoid taking any photos and to avoid posting anything on social media about what they were doing, or who they were.

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/russian-students-framed-as-jehovahs-witnesses-in-field-trip-to-crowd-courtroom-57684

The most likely explanation is that the SC didn't want any real JW's in the court while the court was in session, as well as providing an opportunity to make it look like the JW's actually had some support in the country.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

the "supporters" were actually students from a nearby university who'd been told to show up by an unknown man..

Usually in that kind of situation you would assume the unknown man was working on behalf of the Jehovahs Witnesses.
In the absence of evidence, you could speculate either way.
But the principles of Occam's Razor would tend towards assuming the rent-a-crowd not being recruited by the opposite side in any given dispute.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

In the absence of evidence, you could speculate either way. But the principles of Occam's Razor would tend towards assuming the rent-a-crowd not being recruited by the opposite side in any given dispute.

That point of view would have some credibility if it weren't Russia where this kind of government-sponsored rent-a-crowd is a common thing. Especially the rent-a-crowds operating under the instruction of the Kremlin which are typically instructed to avoid peppering social media with photos, as for example, are the regular and irregular Russian military units operating in East Ukraine - not always especially successfully, as it turns out.

robindch

Meanwhile Novaya Gazeta reports that, in Chechnya, gay men are being rounded up and tortured - English articles are here, here and here).

Ramzan Kadyrov, the region's erratic islamic fundamentalist president, said (in English) that this couldn't be happening as there were no gay men in Chechnya because they'd all been dealt with by their relatives.

Chechen authorities retaliated to the report by issuing a veiled threat to the reporters behind the story - at least one of whom is now in hiding after she received death threats.

Uncharacteristically, Putin in a mildly difficult spot here as the Russian "security" services have been pushing back against Kadyrov for many years as he operates outside of the country's strict power vertical and is, effectively, a law unto himself within Chechnya and carries unclear authority elsewhere as he provides men and materials to do Putin's dirty work in Syria, East Ukraine as well as the the occasional hit in Moscow.

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/ex-green-party-chief-trevor-sargent-to-become-a-priest-1.3050597

Former Green Party TD Trevor Sargent is to become a (Church of Ireland) priest.

"The boss is Jesus Christ, and when you forget that you go off the rails."

Well speak for yourself buddy.

Also the oul' catlick priests must be a bit jealous, Trev gets to keep his (second) wife and they're not even allowed one

Pherekydes

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/ex-green-party-chief-trevor-sargent-to-become-a-priest-1.3050597

Former Green Party TD Trevor Sargent is to become a (Church of Ireland) priest.

I had to repost this from FB:

He said, "I have had a calling to the church since my school days." He must have been thinking of St Augustine's quote when he was busy getting overpaid as a government minister: "O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet."

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Also the oul' catlick priests must be a bit jealous, Trev gets to keep his (second) wife and they're not even allowed one

As somebody said a long, long time ago - when choosing between schism and heresy, pick heresy every time.

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/breastfeeding-how-catholic-and-protestant-mothers-differ-1.3043687

Catholicism correlates negatively with breastfeeding rates.

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Former Green Party TD Trevor Sargent is to become a (Church of Ireland) priest.

He is/was also some kind of market gardener/horticulturalist, but that is hard work.
In fairness to him he has "done the state some service" as they say.

He is well known for waving in the council chamber a cheque received in the post from a builder who was seeking to rezone land for a housing development. When he asked the other members whether any of them had also received cheques, he was assaulted by a number of his fellow councillors. Sargent alleged that Fianna Fáil councillor Don Lydon put him in a headlock and attempted to snatch the cheque from him. This is one of the incidents which eventually led to the creation of planning tribunals to look into planning matters in Dublin County Council.

from wiki

Hotblack Desiato

Utah judge says rapist is ‘extraordinarily good man’

A Utah judge is facing a deluge of complaints after calling a former Mormon bishop convicted of rape an “extraordinarily good man” who did something wrong.

Judge Low sentenced Vallejo to up to life in prison on Wednesday and seemed to get emotional during the hearing.

“The court has no doubt that Mr Vallejo is an extraordinarily good man,” he said during the sentencing. “But great men sometimes do bad things.”

Ryan McBride, the prosecutor on the case, said Judge Low’s comments were inappropriate and that they may have come in response to more than 50 character letters about Vallejo, most of them detailing the good things he has done.

The defendant’s brother spoke at the hearing and compared Vallejo to Jesus in making the argument that he was wrongly convicted, Mr McBride said.

recedite

The defendant’s brother spoke at the hearing and compared Vallejo to Jesus

Possibly they both wore the same sandals?

Hotblack Desiato

Blogger murdered in the Maldives by suspected islamists.

'If I get stabbed, you were the last person to talk to me'

silverharp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4448404/Saudi-Arabia-sends-atheist-death-renouncing-Islam.html

Saudi Arabia sentences an atheist to death for uploading a video renouncing Islam and the Prophet Mohammed
Man has been identified locally as Ahmad Al Shamri who is said to be in his 20s
Saudi authorities picked him up in 2014 when he uploaded the video in question
In it, men and women were seen to be dancing and he was charged with athiesm
Supreme Court ruled against his appeal after saying he was drunk and high

Saudi Arabia has sentenced an atheist to death for uploading a video in which he renounced Islam and the Prophet Mohammed.
The man has been identified locally as Ahmad Al Shamri who is in his 20s and from the town of Hafar al-Batin.
Saudi authorities first picked him up in 2014 after he uploaded the video showing men and women dancing which led to him being charged with atheism and blasphemy.


Shockingly, fellow countrymen appeared to support the punishment handed down by the country's officials when reacting to the sanction online.
According to The Independent, one said: 'If you're a lowkey atheist that's fine.
'But once you talk in public and criticize God or religion, then you shall be punished.'
Another poster said: 'I wish there could be live streaming when you cut his head off.'

CptMackey

silverharp wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4448404/Saudi-Arabia-sends-atheist-death-renouncing-Islam.html

But it's ok because they are allied with the west and are nothing like IS

robindch

The DM appears to have plagiarized the story more or less directly from The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-man-sentenced-death-atheism-ahmad-al-shamri-hafar-al-batin-appeal-denied-a7703161.html

robindch

A Russian state prosecutor calls for a three and a half year sentence in a prison colony for Ruslan Sokolovsky, a 22-year old guy who played Pokemon in a church, thereby inciting "religious hatred".

http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-russia-court-pokemon-idUSKBN17U1E5

While it's hard to pin down the number exactly, it's believed that the prosecution rate in Russian courts is over 99% and Mr Sokolovsky is due to learn his fate on May 11th.

silverharp

^^

Im not sure if I'd class that as freedom of speech? I was thinking that is similar to the thing of putting bacon on the door handles of a mosque for which at least one person in the UK was sent to prison for.


http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-russia-court-pokemon-idUSKBN17U1E5

A Russian state prosecutor asked a court to jail a blogger who played Pokemon Go inside a church for three-and-a-half years on Friday, saying he was guilty of inciting religious hatred, a court employee told Reuters by phone.

Ruslan Sokolovsky, 22, a popular blogger, last August posted a video online of himself playing Pokemon on his mobile phone inside a church in Yekaterinburg built on the spot where the last Russian tsar and his family were killed in 1918.

In the video, which contains strong language mocking Christianity, Sokolovsky likens Jesus Christ to a Pokemon character and says he had decided to play the popular game inside the church because he had seen a news report saying people who did so could be fined or jailed.

robindch

silverharp wrote: »

Im not sure if I'd class that as freedom of speech? I was thinking that is similar to the thing of putting bacon on the door handles of a mosque for which at least one person in the UK was sent to prison for.

If there was no criminal damage, then - all other things being equal, and fully accepting that the act is both stupid and anti-social, as was his racist name-calling - being sent to prison in the UK for a year for the act of tying bacon to an islamic religious building is as crazy as being imprisoned for playing Pokemon in a christian religious building. On a first offence, I'd have thought justice was better served by sentencing the twit to community service at most - perhaps even painting the, frankly dingy, mosque.

BTW, I see the guy convicted of this seems to have died in prison.

Reuters wrote:

A Russian state prosecutor asked a court to jail a blogger who played Pokemon Go inside a church for three-and-a-half years on Friday, saying he was guilty of inciting religious hatred, a court employee told Reuters by phone.

That said, if the Russian guy was playing Pokemon for three and a half years inside a church, then frankly and literally, he needs to get out more.

robindch

Seems that western-style gay conversion therapy is a thing in mainland Russia as well:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39777612

silverharp

robindch wrote: »

If there was no criminal damage, then - all other things being equal, and fully accepting that the act is both stupid and anti-social, as was his racist name-calling - being sent to prison in the UK for a year for the act of tying bacon to an islamic religious building is as crazy as being imprisoned for playing Pokemon in a christian religious building. On a first offence, I'd have thought justice was better served by sentencing the twit to community service at most - perhaps even painting the, frankly dingy, mosque.

BTW, I see the guy convicted of this seems to have died in prison.That said, if the Russian guy was playing Pokemon for three and a half years inside a church, then frankly and literally, he needs to get out more.

in either case prison is way out of order, they are just not hills I'd die on to defend.

Indeed the sentence construction is wanting

recedite

robindch wrote: »

BTW, I see the guy convicted of this seems to have died in prison.

Just as well it wasn't the Russian guy who died in prison, or we'd never hear the end of it.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

A Russian state prosecutor calls for a three and a half year sentence in a prison colony for Ruslan Sokolovsky, a 22-year old guy who played Pokemon in a church, thereby inciting "religious hatred".

Sokolovsky has been found guilty of inciting "religious hatred":

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39881444

This seems to be some or all of the video in question here. Haven't been able to find any indication of religious believers who were triggered by this video and his walk around the church seems to have been peaceful, even a little dull and he seems not to have been noticed nor approached by anybody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMn1yahGYk

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/russian-who-played-pok?mon-go-in-church-avoids-jail-term-1.3079756

A Russian court on Thursday gave a suspended 3 (and a half, symbols don't work) year jail sentence to a blogger who was detained after he played the video game Pokemon Go inside a Russian Orthodox church last year.

loobylou

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pastor-eaten-by-crocodile-while-imitating-jesus-walking-water-1621603

recedite

loobylou wrote: »

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pastor-eaten-by-crocodile-while-imitating-jesus-walking-water-1621603

Its not clear whether this is a hoax story or not, but its entertaining anyway.
"Crocodile River"... the clue is in the name