Twin Peaks (2017) [Showtime/Sky Atlantic] [ Spoilers ]

johnny_ultimate · 19-06-2017 11:25PM

Another remarkable episode this week for sure. Definitely a swift riposte to suggestions the main narrative(s) isn't moving forward, probably the most urgent episode to date.

Not to say they didn't have space for that strange Twin Peaks magic. The direction is exemplary throughout, but some moments are extraordinarily well-handled. The mysterious figure in the morgue corridor was an inspired piece of horror filmmaking, dread articulated through framing, lighting and that unnerving score.

Loved the way the fight scene was handled, a sudden burst of manic, bizarre intensity. In a way, that unexpected burst of visceral oddness was there as a counterpoint to that relaxed long-shot in the bar - a few extended moments of quiet contemplation in an altogether exhausting episode. There's a peculiar balance to this new season of Twin Peaks, with an endless combination of plots and genres. But there's an artful harmony to it all that this week's episode really illustrates. (see also: that wonderful panning shot of Lynch himself humming serenely against the backdrop of a massive photo of a mushroom cloud).

Also, cannot get enough of Naomi Watts in this. She is just so perfect for the role. Easily the best thing she's done since, well, Mulholland Dr.!

pickarooney · 20-06-2017 06:33AM

I couldn't stay concentrated on this one. Think it's time to give up.

loveisdivine · 20-06-2017 02:14PM

RainMakerToo wrote: »

Noticed something at the end of this week's episode!

Song playing in the diner at the end of the episode was a version of this:

Which was also used in a 1992 film Sleepwalkers: [URL="http://http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105428/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 with Madchen Amick as one of the stars... just thought that seemed pretty cool! May be just coincidence

Really enjoyed the last 2 episodes!

It's also interesting because once that guy came in and yelled "anybody seen ***" (cant remember the name) all the people in the diner switched. Like we'd slept through part of it and woke up later on.

Achasanai · 21-06-2017 07:43AM

Do any of you think the whole 'Harry is sick with cancer' story line a bit strange? And that they have his brother constantly talking to him on the phone about how he is. Just not sure what the point of it is.

ixoy · 21-06-2017 08:58AM

Achasanai wrote: »

Do any of you think the whole 'Harry is sick with cancer' story line a bit strange? And that they have his brother constantly talking to him on the phone about how he is. Just not sure what the point of it is.

Well the actor who played Harry retired so I guess they didn't want to kill him off screen. It's a bit weird though in its execution,ringing him up each episode.
This episode featured the third performance from an actor who has since died (and I am not counting Briggs in this or BOB).

nearzero · 21-06-2017 11:45AM

I am absolutely loving every second of it, and I'm loving reading all the Easter eggs after each episode and how Lynch-ian it all is. Am I the only one screaming at the TV towards then of every episode hoping it doesnt end. If they released it all together I think I would have binged the whole thing at once!

I'm loving the long draw out scenes that are just Lynch at his finest - there is nothing like watching a scene of someone walking across a room to answer a phone as they shuffle along taking FAR too long or an old bellboy bringing in a shot Cooper his milk. These are inherently Lynch - not just reserved for Twin Peaks - all his works. They build or release tension. They are so important, I find myself grinning like a loon when he does this! The sweeping... just magic.

Achasanai · 21-06-2017 01:55PM

ixoy wrote: »

Well the actor who played Harry retired so I guess they didn't want to kill him off screen. It's a bit weird though in its execution,ringing him up each episode.
This episode featured the third performance from an actor who has since died (and I am not counting Briggs in this or BOB).

Yeah, I heard he'd retired, but it just seems weird that they're calling him every other episode to check on his progress. He could've easily been killed off, after all it's been 25 years. People die or move on.

Sad Professor · 21-06-2017 02:40PM

They were probably leaving it open in case he changed his mind - they may have been hoping to convince him to shoot a Skype call or something before they finished shooting. They hoped to get Bowie back as well, hence all the references to Jeffries, but then he got sick.

briany · 21-06-2017 04:17PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

They were probably leaving it open in case he changed his mind - they may have been hoping to convince him to shoot a Skype call or something before they finished shooting. They hoped to get Bowie back as well, hence all the references to Jeffries, but then he got sick.

It's surprising to me that Jeffries would have been considered a main player in the revival and even more surprising that they wanted Bowie back to play him. Bowie was pretty bad in FWWM. That southern American accent he was doing, for starters, was comical, and his overall presentation at no point made me forget that it was Bowie acting a role, because he looked like he stepped off the set of one of his 80s videos.

Given that Bowie passed away, why not just re-cast the role. They recast Donna for FWWM and got away with it. Same could be done for Jeffries.

buck65 · 23-06-2017 05:25PM

Personally I love the space around the programme, lots of room for it to move. Yes it can be slightly tedious but the last few episodes are really motoring. Some great scenes.

I think people scanning through the "boring" bits are missing the point and are fairly representative of a modern culture who is addicted to now and immediacy and will wait for nothing.

B_Wayne · 23-06-2017 05:41PM

buck65 wrote: »

Personally I love the space around the programme, lots of room for it to move. Yes it can be slightly tedious but the last few episodes are really motoring. Some great scenes.

I think people scanning through the "boring" bits are missing the point and are fairly representative of a modern culture who is addicted to now and immediacy and will wait for nothing.

It takes incredibly good direction for 3 minutes of sweeping to be in any way acceptable. I'm really happy with the result so far. One show I'm looking forward to weekly.

Achasanai · 23-06-2017 06:01PM

B_Wayne wrote: »

It takes incredibly good direction for 3 minutes of sweeping to be in any way acceptable. I'm really happy with the result so far. One show I'm looking forward to weekly.

I was thinking that scene would just cut to the end credits after 5 minutes of sweeping. Now that would have been pure Lynch.

B_Wayne · 23-06-2017 06:07PM

Achasanai wrote: »

I was thinking that scene would just cut to the end credits after 5 minutes of sweeping. Now that would have been pure Lynch.

I did too but I guess it was even more pure Lynch that a load of people probably assumed it was over and turned off. :pac: But he expected viewer to keep watching.... I honestly find it very refreshing as tv goes.

23-06-2017 06:20PM

buck65 wrote: »

Personally I love the space around the programme, lots of room for it to move. Yes it can be slightly tedious but the last few episodes are really motoring. Some great scenes.

I think people scanning through the "boring" bits are missing the point and are fairly representative of a modern culture who is addicted to now and immediacy and will wait for nothing.

I don't think people are necessarily missing the point so much as not agreeing with it, a lot of people loved Twin Peaks because of the story, characters and atmosphere rather than directorial wankery

mzungu · 23-06-2017 08:28PM

riffmongous wrote: »

I don't think people are necessarily missing the point so much as not agreeing with it, a lot of people loved Twin Peaks because of the story, characters and atmosphere rather than directorial wankery

All part of the package, the "directorial wankery" is part of that magical formula that makes Twin Peaks what it is. Take that out of it and you have a lesser show.

23-06-2017 09:03PM

mzungu wrote: »

All part of the package, the "directorial wankery" is part of that magical formula that makes Twin Peaks what it is. Take that out of it and you have a lesser show.

Sure, but for me and I'm not alone i think, the balance is wrong and too much weighted towards the artistic side. For instance considering all the years we spent poring over every clue and reference on wikis and forums, analysing the mysteries, and now it's back and there's very little discussion about it at all.

Sad Professor · 23-06-2017 10:16PM

briany wrote: »

It's surprising to me that Jeffries would have been considered a main player in the revival and even more surprising that they wanted Bowie back to play him. Bowie was pretty bad in FWWM. That southern American accent he was doing, for starters, was comical, and his overall presentation at no point made me forget that it was Bowie acting a role, because he looked like he stepped off the set of one of his 80s videos.

Given that Bowie passed away, why not just re-cast the role. They recast Donna for FWWM and got away with it. Same could be done for Jeffries.

Bowie was expected to return but got sick, so maybe they did re-cast, we don't know. It's also been speculated that Bowie may have secretly shot some footage, but I think it's unlikely.

Sad Professor · 23-06-2017 10:26PM

I'm starting to think there's more to Dougie Jones than him being a decoy. I think if you merged good Cooper and bad Cooper together, Dougie is pretty close to what you would end up with. A lovable loser who sells insurance, gambles and cheats on his wife. In other words, Dougie Jones is what Cooper would be in real life. I always felt that when Cooper entered the Lodge he was split in two, but Cooper is so virtuous it's hard to imagine there was any evil in there. What if Dougie is the original Cooper? Kinda like the Mulholland Drive twist.

24-06-2017 02:12AM

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm starting to think there's more to Dougie Jones than him being a decoy. I think if you merged good Cooper and bad Cooper together, Dougie is pretty close to what you would end up with. A lovable loser who sells insurance, gambles and cheats on his wife. In other words, Dougie Jones is what Cooper would be in real life. I always felt that when Cooper entered the Lodge he was split in two, but Cooper is so virtuous it's hard to imagine there was any evil in there. What if Dougie is the original Cooper? Kinda like the Mulholland Drive twist.

Wouldn't he just be old Cooper? Or you think that we will not see 'original personality' Cooper again? It was something I was thinking recently after rewatching the start of the first season last week, that the original Cooper would be very out of place in the current show as he used to have such an energy to everything he did. Either the current malaise that seems to be infecting most of the other characters in the show is related to his own current state (sometimes I actually wonder if he really made it back to the real universe, some of the people around him act so odd and don't notice how odd he acts) and when he snaps out of it so will everyone else, or it will stay the same and Cooper in which case I don't think he can return to his old self, the tone would just be too jarring.

On a slightly related noted, did anyone here ever play the game Alan Wake? It was very heavily influenced by Twin Peaks and

followed a similar idea with a 'evil' doppelganger of the main character (Mr. Scratch) being created while he is trapped in another dimension

Sad Professor · 24-06-2017 11:15AM

riffmongous wrote: »

Wouldn't he just be old Cooper? Or you think that we will not see 'original personality' Cooper again?

I'm speculating that old Cooper himself might have been the result of an encounter with the Lodge. Remember that Cooper was dreaming about the Lodge in season 1, long before he went there. And Laura had a vision telling her that good Cooper was in the Lodge even earlier. When she dies Cooper is already there as well. Obviously time is different in the Lodge. But Cooper was always a very idealised character. Nobody is that virtuous. In Mulholland Drive, Betty and Rita find out that they are both different sides of the same woman called Diane. Well maybe good Cooper and bad Cooper are different sides of Dougie Jones.

briany · 24-06-2017 12:07PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm speculating that old Cooper himself might have been the result of an encounter with the Lodge. Remember that Cooper was dreaming about the Lodge in season 1, long before he went there. And Laura had a vision telling her that good Cooper was in the Lodge even earlier. When she dies Cooper is already there as well. Obviously time is different in the Lodge. But Cooper was always a very idealised character. Nobody is that virtuous. In Mulholland Drive, Betty and Rita find out that they are both different sides of the same woman called Diane. Well maybe good Cooper and bad Cooper are different sides of Dougie Jones.

If Dougie was the real guy, then why'd he turn into a pearl?

Sad Professor · 24-06-2017 01:13PM

briany wrote: »

If Dougie was the real guy, then why'd he turn into a pearl?

I don't know, but I had a couple of thoughts about the pearl and what happened to Dougie:

I was reminded of what Hawke said about if you confront the Lodge with an imperfect courage it will destroy your soul. When Dougie entered the Lodge he was reduced to just the green ring and the golden pearl. I think the pearl might be his soul, but may be significant to Cooper in some way too. Dougie had no shoes on when got pulled into the Lodge, and so Cooper came through without his shoes as well. And Cooper seems to be missing something. His shoes obviously but possibly something else as well.

I was also thinking of the key in Mulholland Drive and how it causes Betty to disappear and soon after Rita too. And how Agent Desmond disappears in FWWM when he touches the ring.

briany · 24-06-2017 02:20PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't know, but I had a couple of thoughts about the pearl and what happened to Dougie:

I was reminded of what Hawke said about if you confront the Lodge with an imperfect courage it will destroy your soul. When Dougie entered the Lodge he was reduced to just the green ring and the golden pearl. I think the pearl might be his soul, but may be significant to Cooper in some way too. Dougie had no shoes on when got pulled into the Lodge, and so Cooper came through without his shoes as well. And Cooper seems to be missing something. His shoes obviously but possibly something else as well.

I was also thinking of the key in Mulholland Drive and how it causes Betty to disappear and soon after Rita too. And how Agent Desmond disappears in FWWM when he touches the ring.

Dougie turned into a pearl because MIKE said he was 'manufactured' and therefore that little pearl was all the substance he was worth inside the Lodges. What Hawk was referring to was his people's legend of 'The Dweller on the Threshold', presumably the shadow self. This is what ends up being Windom Earle's undoing when he steps into the Black Lodge.

Sad Professor · 24-06-2017 03:20PM

briany wrote: »

Dougie turned into a pearl because MIKE said he was 'manufactured' and therefore that little pearl was all the substance he was worth inside the Lodges. What Hawk was referring to was his people's legend of 'The Dweller on the Threshold', presumably the shadow self. This is what ends up being Windom Earle's undoing when he steps into the Black Lodge.

Yeah but then what happened to Cooper when he entered the Lodge? Even if we don't doubt his courage, we have to assume he was tricked. And even a shadow self is part of who that person is - an manifestation of repressed memories and subconscious fears etc. But I have trouble imagining bad Cooper as being any part of good Cooper, whose purity in the original series was unassailable.

I also have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Dougie Jones and his whole life was just a manufactured decoy. I think there has to be more to him than that, even if it's just that he's an alternate reality Cooper who abandoned the virtuous path.

Even if good Cooper returns and bad Cooper is vanquished back to the Lodge, what happens then? I get the feeling bad Cooper has left Cooper's life in ruin to such an extent that there will be no going back to it, and that he may have no choice but to become Dougie Jones, but with all Cooper's virtuous qualities. That might be a nice ending actually.

briany · 24-06-2017 05:50PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah but then what happened to Cooper when he entered the Lodge? Even if we don't doubt his courage, we have to assume he was tricked. And even a shadow self is part of who that person is - an manifestation of repressed memories and subconscious fears etc. But I have trouble imagining bad Cooper as being any part of good Cooper, whose purity in the original series was unassailable.

I also have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Dougie Jones and his whole life was just a manufactured decoy. I think there has to be more to him than that, even if it's just that he's an alternate reality Cooper who abandoned the virtuous path.

Even if good Cooper returns and bad Cooper is vanquished back to the Lodge, what happens then? I get the feeling bad Cooper has left Cooper's life in ruin to such an extent that there will be no going back to it, and that he may have no choice but to become Dougie Jones, but with all Cooper's virtuous qualities. That might be a nice ending actually.

Dale did do things which were not virtuous, or at least one - he conducted an affair with the wife of a former FBI colleague. I don't think Cooper's original characterisation had as much to do with the idea that he was a truly pure individual, but that the original Twin Peaks painted the FBI men as eccentrically one-dimensional. Therefore, I think Dale had a dark side to be drawn upon.

If Dougie were an alternate Dale, then it would make me wonder why MIKE said he was manufactured?An alternate, yet naturally-conceived Dale would surely still have some value in the spiritual realm. I have to think that Phillip Jeffries is at the center of the whole mystery.

If by ruining Dale's life you mean robbing him of 25 years, then yeah. If Dale comes around and gets to defeat Bad Cooper, then returning to Janey-E and being the husband that her unwavering loyalty would appear to deserve, would be a nice, if somewhat pat for Twin Peaks, type of ending.

Sad Professor · 24-06-2017 06:21PM

briany wrote: »

Dale did do things which were not virtuous, or at least one - he conducted an affair with the wife of a former FBI colleague. I don't think Cooper's original characterisation had as much to do with the idea that he was a truly pure individual, but that the original Twin Peaks painted the FBI men as eccentrically one-dimensional. Therefore, I think Dale had a dark side to be drawn upon.

If Dougie were an alternate Dale, then it would make me wonder why MIKE said he was manufactured?An alternate, yet naturally-conceived Dale would surely still have some value in the spiritual realm. I have to think that Phillip Jeffries is at the center of the whole mystery.

If by ruining Dale's life you mean robbing him of 25 years, then yeah. If Dale comes around and gets to defeat Bad Cooper, then returning to Janey-E and being the husband that her unwavering loyalty would appear to deserve, would be a nice, if somewhat pat for Twin Peaks, type of ending.

It's more than just years Cooper has lost to bad Cooper. It's implied in the last episode that bad Cooper may have sexually assaulted Diane and possibly Audrey as well. And we don't know what other evil he has set in motion. I can't see Lynch just letting Cooper off the hook for that. At a minimum he will have to take responsibility for being tricked by Bob/badCoop.

I must have blanked out most of the second season because I forgot about Cooper's affair. I dunno, I still think Lynch sees Cooper as an overgrown boy-scout and as such not particularly interesting in himself. I'm not sure my Dougie theory will literally be the answer, but I think it might be a valuable way of understanding the good/bad Cooper divide and how it may be resolved.

24-06-2017 06:25PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

It's more than just years Cooper has lost to bad Cooper. It's implied in the last episode that bad Cooper may have sexually assaulted Diane and possibly Audrey as well. And we don't know what other evil he has set in motion. I can't see Lynch just letting Cooper off the hook for that. At a minimum he will have to take responsibility for being tricked by Bob/badCoop.

I must have blanked out most of the second season because I forgot about Cooper's affair. I dunno, I still think Lynch sees Cooper as an overgrown boy-scout and as such not particularly interesting in himself. I'm not sure my Dougie theory will literally be the answer, but I think it might be a valuable way of understanding the good/bad Cooper divide and how it may be resolved.

I didn't think of it like that until now, I assumed it was just a one night stand before Coop left for Twin Peaks

Sad Professor · 24-06-2017 06:38PM

riffmongous wrote: »

I didn't think of it like that until now, I assumed it was just a one night stand before Coop left for Twin Peaks

Possibly, but I don't think she was acting like a spurned lover. She initially wanted nothing to do with him, yet she was still his secretary while he was in Twin Peaks 25 years earlier. She specifically references what happened that night rather than what didn't happen afterwards. If Cooper did something to hurt her I think he would have been sensitive enough to know it, but he was happily recording tapes for her as if nothing had happened.

briany · 24-06-2017 07:59PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

It's more than just years Cooper has lost to bad Cooper. It's implied in the last episode that bad Cooper may have sexually assaulted Diane and possibly Audrey as well. And we don't know what other evil he has set in motion. I can't see Lynch just letting Cooper off the hook for that. At a minimum he will have to take responsibility for being tricked by Bob/badCoop.

I must have blanked out most of the second season because I forgot about Cooper's affair. I dunno, I still think Lynch sees Cooper as an overgrown boy-scout and as such not particularly interesting in himself. I'm not sure my Dougie theory will literally be the answer, but I think it might be a valuable way of understanding the good/bad Cooper divide and how it may be resolved.

If Dale sexually assaulted Diane, there's still the chance that Diane could reconcile this be recognising that it wasn't really her Cooper who did it. Already, she appears to have twigged that the man who sat before her wasn't really Dale. So, it's not a short leap to wonder if it was the same man that night. I'm not sure on the assault theory, but this is just for argument's sake. If Diane knew Dale to be a kind and virtuous man, who one night showed up and had his way with her, she could come to conclusion that something was very, very wrong.

On the Audrey angle, if Dale went to her hospital room and violated her in her comatose state....Well, it's about the skeeziest thing a man could do to another individual, but it's not exactly an act to ruin Dale's life because surely you'd want to commit an act that everyone saw so as to be incriminatory.

Beyond that, Bad Cooper appeared to go to ground after leaving Twin Peaks. Not in a literal sense, but in the sense that none of his activities alerted any authorities. He only just came back on the FBI radar. And already two of his colleagues are not sure if it's the real Dale Cooper, so if the real Dale Cooper came back, why'd he be held to account? He may have to live with any hurt Bad Coop caused, but I really don't know about taking any responsibility for it.

mzungu · 24-06-2017 09:37PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Sure, but for me and I'm not alone i think, the balance is wrong and too much weighted towards the artistic side.

I think they are starting to balance it out a bit more now, the last episode was straightforward (for Lynch anyway

) and if this season is to be treated as one long movie, it might be the case that it will shift between the artistic set piece and the conventional story

riffmongous wrote: »

For instance considering all the years we spent poring over every clue and reference on wikis and forums, analysing the mysteries, and now it's back and there's very little discussion about it at all.

It is different as to what it was back in the 90s, but the mystery is still there. One such example being the sound Ben and his secretary heard in Great Northern. I've come across lots of theorising in articles and there is loads on (American) discussion sites about this series and how it fits it with FWWM and S01 & 02.

Twin Peaks (2017) [Showtime/Sky Atlantic] [** Spoilers **]

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Twin Peaks (2017) [Showtime/Sky Atlantic] [ Spoilers ]