Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

dregin · 23-06-2017 02:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

cheers crouchy

If anyone around here is getting named after beanpoles it's me. FIGHTCHA!

Ardillaun · 23-06-2017 03:27PM

We're approaching peak optimism:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/23/blacks-vs-lions-position-by-position-player-ratings-comes/kieran-read-v-taulupe-faletau/

23-06-2017 03:31PM

Ardillaun wrote: »

We're approaching peak optimism:

Even the world rugby player of the year isn't better than his lions counterpart.

23-06-2017 03:33PM

Ardillaun wrote: »

We're approaching peak optimism:

Not a patch on the head-to-head the Indo did the other day. They pretty much only said Retallick was better than his opposite number. A few others were 'advantage NZ but not really'. Few ties and the Lions got the rest.

Former Former · 23-06-2017 03:38PM

Ardillaun wrote: »

We're approaching peak optimism:

That's generous to Faletau but otherwise it's fair enough.

On a player by player basis there's not much between the teams. But NZ are a much better unit and that's why we're going to lose.

23-06-2017 03:56PM

Former Former wrote: »

That's generous to Faletau but otherwise it's fair enough.

On a player by player basis there's not much between the teams. But NZ are a much better unit and that's why we're going to lose.

As individuals, there's a max of 3 positions I'd consider a lion over their AB's opposite. Possibly 4 at a stretch.

I'm more biased than I thought.

23-06-2017 03:58PM

Basil3 wrote: »

As individuals, there's a max of 3 positions I'd consider a lion over their AB's opposite. Possibly 4 at a stretch.

I'm more biased than I thought.

who are your 3 or 4 out of interest?

23-06-2017 04:06PM

Nancy Narrow Self-expression wrote: »

who are your 3 or 4 out of interest?

Vunipola, O'Brien, Davies. Even those are very tight calls. Davies is helped by Crotty playing out of position. Vunipola and O'Brien both playing really well atm.

Buer · 23-06-2017 04:07PM

Nancy Narrow Self-expression wrote: »

who are your 3 or 4 out of interest?

The correct answer is O'Brien, Furlong, O'Mahony and Murray.

Anything else and Basil is banned.

Christy42 · 23-06-2017 04:17PM

Basil3 wrote: »

Vunipola, O'Brien, Davies. Even those are very tight calls. Davies is helped by Crotty playing out of position. Vunipola and O'Brien both playing really well atm.

Murray would certainly force an argument at least to get that 9 jersey. A few other selection headaches would abound as well I reckon.

23-06-2017 04:17PM

Watson on a par with Dagg is ridiculous

CurryFlavoured · 23-06-2017 04:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Watson on a par with Dagg is ridiculous

That stood out for me as well. Dagg and Beauden.

stephen_n · 23-06-2017 04:30PM

Mako Vunipola (89%) beats Joe Moody (11%) – Lion
Jamie George (70%) beats Codie Taylor (30%) – Lion
Tadhg Furlong (57%) beats Owen Franks (43%) – Lion
Brodie Retallic (98%) beats Alun Wyn Jones (2%) – All Black
Samuel Whitelock (59%) beats George Kruis (41%) – All Black
Peter O’Mahony (52%) beats Jerome Kaino (48%) – Lion
Sean O’Brien (67%) beats Sam Cane (33%) – Lion
Kieran Read (87%) beats Taulupe Faletau (13%) – All Black
Conor Murray (62%) beats Aaron Smith (38%) – Lion
Beauden Barrett (82%) beats Owen Farrell (18%) – All Black
Rieko Ioane (60%) beats Elliot Daly (40%) – All Black
Sonny Bill Williams (91%) beats Ben Te’o (9%) – All Black
Jonathan Davies (62%) beats Ryan Crotty (38%) – Lion
Israel Dagg (59%) beats Anthony Watson (41%) – All Black
Ben Smith (95%) beats Liam Williams (5%) – All Black

Pundit arenas readers vote

23-06-2017 04:31PM

I honestly am not sure there's a single position where the Lions player is clearly better than his NZ counterpart. Maybe Vunipola is the most likely one. A lot of them are quite tight and NZ are clearly better in a few (Smith, Dagg, Retallick, SBW for example).

Any of these ratings or comparisons coming from the NH are going to be biased because people here watch NH rugby and don't watch SH rugby nearly as much.

Edit - I had initially slated the good readership of PunditArena but that poll isn't terrible tbh. One or two quibbles but that's all. Anyway these things are meaningless. NZ are likely to be much more cohesive and as a team they have better skill levels.

errlloyd · 23-06-2017 04:35PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Mako Vunipola (89%) beats Joe Moody (11%) – Lion
Jamie George (70%) beats Codie Taylor (30%) – Lion
Tadhg Furlong (57%) beats Owen Franks (43%) – Lion
Brodie Retallic (98%) beats Alun Wyn Jones (2%) – All Black
Samuel Whitelock (59%) beats George Kruis (41%) – All Black
Peter O’Mahony (52%) beats Jerome Kaino (48%) – Lion
Sean O’Brien (67%) beats Sam Cane (33%) – Lion
Kieran Read (87%) beats Taulupe Faletau (13%) – All Black
Conor Murray (62%) beats Aaron Smith (38%) – Lion
Beauden Barrett (82%) beats Owen Farrell (18%) – All Black
Rieko Ioane (60%) beats Elliot Daly (40%) – All Black
Sonny Bill Williams (91%) beats Ben Te’o (9%) – All Black
Jonathan Davies (62%) beats Ryan Crotty (38%) – Lion
Israel Dagg (59%) beats Anthony Watson (41%) – All Black
Ben Smith (95%) beats Liam Williams (5%) – All Black

Pundit arenas readers vote

Fantastic pro Ireland anti Wales bias at play there! Every Irish player beats their equivalent. But every Welsh player gets completely destroyed by their equivalent, except the one paired with the guy who scored the winning try against us in 2013!

CurryFlavoured · 23-06-2017 04:36PM

TBH, from 1-8 it's close if we're isolating players. Even the half backs are close. It's 11-15 where New Zealand hold a big advantage, both in starting players and backup. And that they're all used to playing with each other, have been coached together for years etc., and they should be fresher.

POM on par with Kaino is pretttttty generous though. As is SOB over Cane, it seems to be going on very recent form with SOB getting a 9.

23-06-2017 04:37PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Fantastic pro Ireland anti Wales bias at play there! Every Irish player beats their equivalent. But every Welsh player gets completely destroyed by their equivalent, except the one paired with the guy who scored the winning try against us in 2013!

Well do tell us which of the Wales players there has been treated unfairly?

23-06-2017 04:37PM

I reckon the Lions are gonna win the world cup

BBDBB · 23-06-2017 04:53PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

Well do tell us which of the Wales players there has been treated unfairly?

They all have, every last one of them, at every game, by every referee, touch judge and TMO according to every pro12 commentator

Synode · 23-06-2017 05:14PM

I have a sneaky feeling we're gonna win the first test. A sneaky, sneaky feeling

irishbucsfan · 23-06-2017 05:22PM

We're definitely going to win. It's not in doubt at all

errlloyd · 23-06-2017 05:26PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

Well do tell us which of the Wales players there has been treated unfairly?

From a binary point of view none of them have been treated unfairly.

Brodie is better than AWJ
Ben Smith is better than Liam Williams
Read is better than Feletau

It's just the scale that I find telling. The most comfortable margins of victory by far on that team sheet are at the expense of Welsh players when all 4 Irish players are considered better than their opposite number.

partyguinness · 23-06-2017 05:26PM

Synode wrote: »

I have a sneaky feeling we're gonna win the first test. A sneaky, sneaky feeling

First rule of Fight Club....don't talk about Fight Club.

irishbucsfan · 23-06-2017 05:29PM

If the ABs were so good they would have got contracts playing in the top hemisphere

Yeah_Right · 23-06-2017 05:54PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Murray would certainly force an argument at least to get that 9 jersey. A few other selection headaches would abound as well I reckon.

Murray wouldn't make the AB squad because the style he plays doesn't suit the AB style. He is an outstanding player for Munster, Ireland and the Lions but he plays halfback very differently from A Smith and TJP.

Yeah_Right · 23-06-2017 05:56PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the ABs were so good they would have got contracts playing in the top hemisphere

They love the game too much to step down to that level even for insane amounts of money.

Ardillaun · 23-06-2017 06:33PM

I just hope our tight five have played enough together to be ready. We have to be strong there to have any chance.

23-06-2017 07:05PM

hon Pete

Former Former · 23-06-2017 07:08PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Murray wouldn't make the AB squad because the style he plays doesn't suit the AB style. He is an outstanding player for Munster, Ireland and the Lions but he plays halfback very differently from A Smith and TJP.

But by that logic, Smith wouldn't make the Ireland team. So who's the better SH?

sydthebeat · 23-06-2017 07:15PM

Former Former wrote: »

But by that logic, Smith wouldn't make the Ireland team. So who's the better SH?

TJP

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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