Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

irishbucsfan

Murray is better than Jimmy Cowen. That's all we need to know

Erik Shin

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We're definitely going to win. It's not in doubt at all

This place is overrun with New Zealanders!

Yeah_Right

Former Former wrote: »

But by that logic, Smith wouldn't make the Ireland team. So who's the better SH?

Yeah I'd agree with that because Smith and TJP wouldn't suit Ireland's style. I do think it would be easier for them to switch to the Irish game plan than it would be for Murray to change to the AB way.

Don't get me wrong, I think Murray is an outstanding player and an Irish great. However I wouldn't swap him for either of the kiwis. I feel the same about POM and Kaino.



Obviously I'm biased towards the ABs but I do try to be fair in my evaluations sort of.

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Murray is better than Jimmy Cowen. That's all we need to know

But does he look as good with a mullet?

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

But does he look as good with a mullet?

Murray was called Bieber when he broke through. That's all that needs to be said there really.

Asus X540L

Anyone know anywhere in Cork serving for the test tomorrow morning?

laugh

Sky is showing the match in 11 hours 10 minutes or is this program a repeat (Lions Special).

Christy42

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah I'd agree with that because Smith and TJP wouldn't suit Ireland's style. I do think it would be easier for them to switch to the Irish game plan than it would be for Murray to change to the AB way.

Don't get me wrong, I think Murray is an outstanding player and an Irish great. However I wouldn't swap him for either of the kiwis. I feel the same about POM and Kaino.



Obviously I'm biased towards the ABs but I do try to be fair in my evaluations sort of.

I think the conversation was who is the better player as opposed to the specifics of the game plan. I mean for a certain game plan Dave Kearney and Trimble were amongst the top in the world at that particular game plan. There were still a lot of wingers I would consider a lot better than either of them at that time.

Well I was talking about ability. It was quite possible others were including game plan into the mix. Both are interesting discussions.

P.Walnuts

Christy42 wrote: »

I think the conversation was who is the better player as opposed to the specifics of the game plan. I mean for a certain game plan Dave Kearney and Trimble were amongst the top in the world at that particular game plan. There were still a lot of wingers I would consider a lot better than either of them at that time.

Well I was talking about ability. It was quite possible others were including game plan into the mix. Both are interesting discussions.

irishman86

errlloyd wrote: »

Fantastic pro Ireland anti Wales bias at play there! Every Irish player beats their equivalent. But every Welsh player gets completely destroyed by their equivalent, except the one paired with the guy who scored the winning try against us in 2013!

Regarding the Welsh its not incorrect
The Irish lads Furlong and Murray are 50/50 but the others are correct

Yeah_Right

Christy42 wrote: »

I think the conversation was who is the better player as opposed to the specifics of the game plan. I mean for a certain game plan Dave Kearney and Trimble were amongst the top in the world at that particular game plan. There were still a lot of wingers I would consider a lot better than either of them at that time.

Well I was talking about ability. It was quite possible others were including game plan into the mix. Both are interesting discussions.

I was trying to be polite but if you're going to push me on it then I'd say Smith and TJP are better players.

Christy42

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I was trying to be polite but if you're going to push me on it then I'd say Smith and TJP are better players.

I disagree but I am likely biased the other way feel free to be impolite in future:p. I won't appreciate the politeness anyway.

laugh

Feckin time zones

Jump_In_Jack

Such a short turnaround to Tuesday,
Looking at the personnel used today,
The Tuesday squad looks relatively predictable:
Marler, Best, Cole,
Henderson, Lawes,
Haskell, Tipuric, Stander,
Laidlaw, Biggar,
North, Henshaw, Joseph, Nowell,
Payne.

Dacey, Dell, Francis, ?, Hill, G. Davies, Russell, Seymour.

? probably Wyn Jones.

Jump_In_Jack

Could see next Saturday being:
McGrath, George, Furlong,
Itoje, Kruis,
Warburton, O'Brien, Faletau,
Murray, Sexton,
Daly, Te'o, Davies, Watson,
Halfpenny.

Owens, Vunipola, Sinckler, ?, O'Mahony, Webb, Farrell, Williams.

? probably Wyn Jones.

My preference would be to have Stander and Lawes on the bench.

They should have called up another backrow to replace Moriarty, and Jonny Gray instead of Cory Hill.

P.Walnuts

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could see next Saturday being:
McGrath, George, Furlong,
Itoje, Kruis,
Warburton, O'Brien, Faletau,
Murray, Sexton,
Daly, Te'o, Davies, Watson,
Halfpenny.

Owens, Vunipola, Sinckler, ?, O'Mahony, Webb, Farrell, Williams.

? probably Wyn Jones.

My preference would be to have Stander and Lawes on the bench.

They should have called up another backrow to replace Moriarty, and Jonny Gray instead of Cory Hill.

Not really sure what Vunipola did to be dropped

Also McGrath's first scrum he went about 10m backwards

Jump_In_Jack

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Not really sure what Vunipola did to be dropped

Also McGrath's first scrum he went about 10m backwards

Main reason was McGrath and Furlong seem to be well capable together with Ireland, so starting them together with the Saracens trio of George, Itoje and Kruis, should give the Lions a good chance to dominate the scrums and lineout, while McGrath gets through a lot of tackling also a bonus.
Vunipola offers more impact especially with Sinckler, they'd be particularly useful when New Zealand are tiring.

AbusesToilets

For second test, I'd go with;

Vunipola
George
Sinkler
Itoje
Kruis
Warburton
SOB
Faletau
Murray
Sexton
Daly
T'eo
Davies
Watson
Williams

McGrath
Owens
Furlong
Henderson
POM
Webb
Farrell
Joseph

Jump_In_Jack

AbusesToilets wrote: »

For second test, I'd go with;

Vunipola
George
Sinkler
Itoje
Kruis
Warburton
SOB
Faletau
Murray
Sexton
Daly
T'eo
Davies
Watson
Williams

McGrath
Owens
Furlong
Henderson
POM
Webb
Farrell
Joseph

That's a good team, but I wonder would Lawes or Stander be more impactful from the bench than O'Mahony.

I wonder should Nathan Hughes have gotten a call up a week ago when Moriarty was ruled out.
He could have played the mid-week game and allowed Stander a break, possibly start Stander then. Too late now though.

AbusesToilets

It's really been a disappointing tour from an Irish perspective. Murray and possibly SOB are the only ones who've shown up consistently. POM and Furlong didn't do much to enhance their reputation today and SOB was so so.

Buer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's really been a disappointing tour from an perspective. Murray and possibly SOB are the only ones who've shown up consistently. POM and Furlong didn't do much to enhance their reputation today and SOB was so so.

Watched it back again and POM had a good game. Didn't show up in the loose as much as I'd have hoped but big in defence, bit at set piece. Important showing. SOB was arguably our man of the match. He has been building to this series.

On watching again, very disappointed in Murray. Not losing his spot but not near his best. Just one of those days. Knocked on a few times and just lacked his normal authority and accuracy.

Team for next week that I'd like to see:

Vunipola, Best (gives far more dog and breakdown work than any other hooker), Sinckler, Lawes, Itoje, POM, SOB, Faletau, Murray, Sexton, Williams, Farrell, Davies, Watson, Halfpenny.

Jump_In_Jack

Squad for Tuesday announced:
Marler, Best (Capt.), Cole,
Henderson, Lawes,
Haskell, Tipuric, Stander,
Laidlaw, Biggar,
North, Henshaw, Joseph, Seymour,
Nowell.

Dacey, Dell, Francis, Hill, Kruis, G. Davies, Russell, Payne.

Surprising that Kruis and Payne are on the bench,
But could mean they are more likely to feature next Saturday than anyone that plays 80 mins on Tuesday.
Door wide open for Henderson and Lawes to put a hand up.
Would like to see a performance from Stander, North and Joseph, they could add a lot to the squad on Saturday if they show some form.

swiwi_

Things no-one predicted

1) The Lions to do an ABs on counter-attack. More than once. Williams really is a savage runner in open play. Only maybe Hogg has that ability.

2) Barrett to never look like missing a kick.

I find myself agreeing with Buers next Lions selection.

As an aside, Hansen comprehensively won the coaching battle. It's a common cliche than any coach could get the ABs to a 90%+ win-rate but a look back at former AB coaches shows this is not the case. Totally negated the rush defence. The engine on Retallick is incredible, which helps. Also there is no NH side that would not have settled for a scrum penalty, a few choice words and pats on the back all round. Read take a bow.

sydthebeat

Canes name very strong team to play the lions

Hurricanes team to play the Lions: Jordie Barrett, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Vince Aso, Ngani Laumape, Julian Savea, Otere Black, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Brad Shields (c), Callum Gibbins, Vaea Fifita, Sam Lousi, Mark Abbott, Jeff To'omaga-Allen, Ricky Riccitelli, Ben May. Reserves: Leni Apisai, Chris Eves, Mike Kainga, James Blackwell, Reed Prinsep, Kemara Hauiti-Parapara, Wes Goosen, Cory Jane.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Canes name very strong team to play the lions

Hurricanes team to play the Lions: Jordie Barrett, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Vince Aso, Ngani Laumape, Julian Savea, Otere Black, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Brad Shields (c), Callum Gibbins, Vaea Fifita, Sam Lousi, Mark Abbott, Jeff To'omaga-Allen, Ricky Riccitelli, Ben May. Reserves: Leni Apisai, Chris Eves, Mike Kainga, James Blackwell, Reed Prinsep, Kemara Hauiti-Parapara, Wes Goosen, Cory Jane.

Lethal backline. Ben Lam has looked good from what I've seen of him, and he's not in the 23. Injured, or just doesn't make the cut?

thomond2006

British & Irish Lions (v Hurricanes, Tuesday June 27, Westpac Stadium, Wellington, 7.35pm NZST/8.35am BST)

15. Jack Nowell – Exeter Chiefs, England, #828
14. Tommy Seymour – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland, #813
13. Jonathan Joseph – Bath Rugby, England, #809
12. Robbie Henshaw – Leinster, Ireland, #824
11. George North – Northampton Saints, Wales, #792
10. Dan Biggar – Ospreys, Wales, #821
9. Greig Laidlaw – Gloucester, Scotland, #810

1. Joe Marler – Harlequins, England, #811
2. Rory Best (c) – Ulster, Ireland, #793
3. Dan Cole – Leicester Tigers, England, #794
4. Iain Henderson – Ulster, Ireland, #808
5. Courtney Lawes – Northampton Saints, England, #826
6. James Haskell – Wasps, England, #823
7. Justin Tipuric – Ospreys, Wales, #786
8. CJ Stander – Munster, Ireland, #831

Replacements:
16. Kristian Dacey – Cardiff Blues, Wales
17. Allan Dell – Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland, ~834
18. Tomas Francis – Exeter Chiefs, Wales
19. Cory Hill – Newport Gwent Dragons, Wales
20. George Kruis – Saracens, England, # 817
21. Gareth Davies – Scarlets, Wales
22. Finn Russell – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland
23. Jared Payne – Ulster, Ireland, #830

awec

What a rubbish bench.

bilston

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could see next Saturday being:
McGrath, George, Furlong,
Itoje, Kruis,
Warburton, O'Brien, Faletau,
Murray, Sexton,
Daly, Te'o, Davies, Watson,
Halfpenny.

Owens, Vunipola, Sinckler, ?, O'Mahony, Webb, Farrell, Williams.

? probably Wyn Jones.

My preference would be to have Stander and Lawes on the bench.

They should have called up another backrow to replace Moriarty, and Jonny Gray instead of Cory Hill.

Didn't think either McGrath or Warburton did anything when they came on to suggest they should be selected over Vunipola or O'Mahony.

There might be a change in the second row and possibly at 10, although I'd be surprised if Farrell was dropped. The back three is a difficult one. I thought Liam Williams had some poor moments defensively, but in attack was excellent so that could be a tight call.

I thought before yesterday the Lions would need to score at least 2 tries and 25 points to win a test. It turns out it's 4 tries and 31 points! I'd probably stick with Williams.

jr86

There's not a hope in hell Vunipola will be dropped. He's more than built up enough credit in the bank over the tour, and McGrath has done nothing of note to pressurise him. Of the starting 15 he'd be one of the last, if not the last I'd expect to be left out

Of the midweek team the two I'll be particularly looking out for are Nowell and Lawes. I tipped both as dark horses to start the first test when the plane left but they now have a chance to really put themselves in contention for the second one. I can't see anyone else coming into the reckoning from the starting 15, unless Henderson for the bench

Vunipola and George will be safe but it wouldn't amaze me at all if Sinckler got the nod at 3. Kruis will probably be okay but it will be pending Lawes's performance Tuesday I feel. Itoje for AWJ should be a no-brainer and there's zero point putting AWJ on the bench. I've always been a huge fan but these days he's way off the real top level as shown yesterday. The Back row will likely be as it is, with Warburton again on the bench

The only way you're likely to drop your out half is if he had a real clanger or his replacement tore it up when he came in. Neither happened so Farrell will be retained, however he may well shift to 12 (which would be a tad harsh on Teo but I do think his performance is being overstated by some, although I'm a fan). Murray has had better days but once again he would have had to have a real shocker to be dropped. Davies was excellent imo (why does he never seem to get any credit this side of the Irish Sea?) and Watson and Williams had their moments. If Nowell goes well again Tuesday I could see him making at least the bench. Either way I think Daly will drop out of the 15.

Former Former

Halfpenny will come in with Williams shifting to the wing ahead of Daly.

Kruis benching on Tuesday suggests Itoje will start the test.

Beyond that, I don't see many changes.