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Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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  • #1862
    cython
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭cython


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    yes I do drive.

    If you are swerving and accelerating at the same time, its difficult to control a vehicle.

    Try it some time. Go to a roundabout - try to drive around it at 50k an hour, go around it two or three times.

    Do you drive? This is basic stuff that driving instructors taught me.
    tommythecat wrote: »
    And that's where you are going wrong! You don't pass a cyclist by circling around them a few times! Seriously WTF. Your example is nonsense stuff!

    You don't pass a cyclist by "swerving" either! You steer the car as you would around any obstacle or turn. It's pretty basic stuff. You should be able to accelerate and steer at the same time. If you can't manage that you shouldn't be driving.
    What he said. If you have to swerve to commence an overtake, that to me suggests that you are doing it wrong by following too close, and accelerating from the same speed as the overtakee from directly behind them. You should by rights be sitting back a bit, and accelerating from a distance so that you can pull out smoothly and commence your pass at or near your peak speed and minimise the time spent pulled out. If you do this smoothly and correctly, your trajectory should be a comparatively gentle but elongated deflection from travelling straight, rather than a marked but short "bump" towards the centre of the road.


  • #1863
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    The problem with overtaking manoeuvres is that many motorists seem to view cyclists as simply an obstacle they must avoid hitting or colliding with, rather than a legitimate road user or mode of transport. For example, on my regular route, there is a flat, straight stretch of road for about half a kilometre, and yet even when there is no oncoming traffic, cars will often come within touching distance of me. Of course it's dangerous, and illegal, and reckless, but rather than it deliberately being those things on the part of the motorist, it is ignorance of them. And while ignorance of the law is not an excuse in court, I won't really care about that when I'm dead or paralysed. The crucial factor is a fundamental lack of understanding by motorists concerning cycling/cyclists. A lack of a culture of cycling is a major problem outside the cities. That type of overtaking behaviour is primarily down to poor, or non existent, driver education or knowledge of cycling. I've had cars come right up beside me on this straight stretch that could have spent 20 or 30 seconds cruising along the opposite side of the road without being in any danger whatsoever. And yet they chose to pass so close to me as to create a dangerous situation, as well as break the law. Mind boggling. But is it really a surprise?

    Enforcement is vital. But it's also not the solution to uneducated motorists. It's simply punishing stupidity and ignorance, rather than implementing policies which will prevent the dangerous behaviour by aiming to redress the stupidity and ignorance. Obviously both strategies are vital, but until the society or culture changes surrounding how we view cycling and cyclists, enforcement will never catch up to the social loss due to the stupidity of drivers.


  • #1864
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You're right, but there is a significant number of motorists who do not care or who deliberately act maliciously towards people as soon as those people get on a bike.

    They really see no problem with using their killing machine as a weapon to intimidate and punish.

    I've gotten to the point now where I will become very anxious when any car comes up behind me, especially in a bus lane.

    It's not just a problem outside the cities.


  • #1865
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,772 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    tommythecat wrote: »
    And that's where you are going wrong! You don't pass a cyclist by circling around them a few times! Seriously WTF. Your example is nonsense stuff!

    You don't shouldn't pass a cyclist by "swerving" either! You steer the car as you would around any obstacle or turn. It's pretty basic stuff. You should be able to accelerate and steer at the same time. If you can't manage that you shouldn't be driving.

    FYP - if you watch any of the 'near misses' video clips shared on this thread you'll find plenty of overtakes that were done too quickly and involved swerving. If that wasn't happening then this thread wouldn't exist.

    But whatevs.....its nonsense stuff, the cyclists are all imagining it - the viewcams are obviously imagining it too.


  • #1866
    Miklos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Miklos


    Not quite a near miss this morning but passed an unaccompanied learner driver going by the Merrion hotel reading a pamphlet!


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  • #1867
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    Miklos wrote: »
    Not quite a near miss this morning but passed an unaccompanied learner driver going by the Merrion hotel reading a pamphlet!

    was the pamphlet to do with the rules of the road or indeed how to operate a motor car? :pac:


  • #1868
    I love Sean nos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    FYP - if you watch any of the 'near misses' video clips shared on this thread you'll find plenty of overtakes that were done too quickly and involved swerving. If that wasn't happening then this thread wouldn't exist.

    But whatevs.....its nonsense stuff, the cyclists are all imagining it - the viewcams are obviously imagining it too.
    Hold on. You're evaluating driving using examples of ****ty driving as proof. This is a near miss thread. Of course the standard of driving is going to be poor.

    What's being argued here is for overtaking to be performed in a swift, confident and controlled manner. Hanging around in the offside lane is good for no one.


  • #1869
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Saw one during the week on Dundrum Road here in morning rush hour.

    Cyclist coming down from Dundrum, passing on the inside of stopped/slow traffic that was keeping the yellow box clear. Car coming up from Milltown took the opportunity to take a right and nearly wiped out cyclist. He pulled his brakes, went over bars and went down. He didn't appear to be half as annoyed with the driver as I would have been. He just picked himself and his bike up, and went on his way.

    As a driver (as well as a cyclist), this is one of the things that is easy enough to do when driving, taking the opportunity to get through a gap, and not see a cyclist that is partially hidden by cars.

    When I am cycling in similar situation, I will often cycle to the right of the cars where I am more visible. You're more hidden to cars joining the road from the left, and more prone to cars taking a right turn without indicating, but I feel often it is the slightly safer approach.


  • #1870
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    BoardsMember wrote: »
    When I am cycling in similar situation, I will often cycle to the right of the cars where I am more visible. You're more hidden to cars joining the road from the left, and more prone to cars taking a right turn without indicating, but I feel often it is the slightly safer approach.

    It's a tricky one. Yes sometimes passing on the right can be better, but you are now open to the possibility of cars in traffic suddenly turning right (u-turn or other manoeuvre). If I can pass on the left I will take it handy and if approaching a junction I'll stand up out of the saddle to get a good view on approach and proceed with extreme caution.


  • #1871
    papu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭papu


    Weepsie wrote: »
    That's the situation that folk like cycledub eejit get uppity about. Yes, cars should know to expect cyclists on the inside of cars before they take a right turn. But equally, a cyclist should know that if traffic is stationary and there's a yellowbox, or junction with a gap, that there is a chance that a vehicle will be turning into it, or emerging from it and not be able to see them.

    I see it everyday on Portland row where cars are turning onto or from Dunne street as the traffic is at a standstill. They inevitably have to brake as a bike breezes through not recognnising that traffic is stopped for a reason.

    If the cars turning or emerging cannot see , they should not proceed , simples.


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  • #1872
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,763 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    My brother witnessed a cyclist getting hit on a roundabout. The cyclist was t-boned while on the roundabout and went up on the bonnet and onto the windscreen leaving dents on the windscreen – one from his body and one from his head! He seemed to be ok (was up , sore and furious with the driver). My brother pacified! The guys helmet was cracked, so it did its job. He did not say if he was taken to hospital but I would say he may have been. My brother is a good witness to have and is making a statement.


  • #1873
    Macy0161
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,672 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Weepsie wrote: »
    The same should be said for the cyclist who often can't see that a car is turning. It has to work both ways and there needs to be some responsibility for one's own safety.
    Ultimate responsibility lies with the motorist, but cyclist should be at least aware of the risk and be proceeding slower/ prepared to stop. Shouldn't have been an over the handlebars emergency stop I would suggest.

    btw, the time i was knocked off on my commute was going up the outside and someone deciding to do a U turn without indicating (or checking mirrors). Case by case basis which I do now, even at the same points!


  • #1874
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I was about to cross Sandyford road near Ballaly on the greenman / greenbike crossing when I glanced to my right to see a car making no attempt to stop. It just tore through the red light missing my front wheel by inches. I nearly had a clip out fail I had to stop so quickly.

    Closest call in a while.


  • #1875
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,934 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Miklos wrote: »
    Not quite a near miss this morning but passed an unaccompanied learner driver going by the Merrion hotel reading a pamphlet!
    A pamphlet on how to drive safely, perhaps?
    Weepsie wrote: »
    That's the situation that folk like cycledub eejit get uppity about.
    Perhaps you'd like to get uppity about it, instead of dictating to others?


  • #1876
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Weepsie wrote: »
    The same should be said for the cyclist who often can't see that a car is turning. It has to work both ways and there needs to be some responsibility for one's own safety.

    Both should be proceeding with caution, but the cyclist has right of way in this example so the onus is on the driver of the turning vehicle to ensure the way is clear*.


    *better alive than right T&C apply


  • #1877
    papu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭papu


    Weepsie wrote: »
    It's a situation where ROTR etc need to be replaced by good common sense. Slow down when approaching such junctions. Sometimes it's easier and safer to give up right of way and it often helps portray the image that cyclists are people too.

    As I said give and take.

    I've got into the habit of giving a little wave when I get a good overtake, more and more I'm getting a beep, or thank you wave back. If I see such junctions, or a red light up ahead, I tend to slow down to let traffic out too if it's between me and light/junction.

    I find it helps to not be unpredictable.

    These two things contradict each other. You preemptively giving up your right of way as a cyclist for your own safety, may have a negative consequence for the next cyclist they encounter who does not.
    It also encourages motorists to think of cyclists as an obstacle or entity who will give up their right of way to them.

    I had such an experience this morning where a lady in an SUV pulled out right infront of me, and just expected me to give way to her while I was traveling at speed.
    420571.jpg


  • #1878
    check_six
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    BoardsMember wrote: »
    Cyclist coming down from Dundrum, passing on the inside of stopped/slow traffic that was keeping the yellow box clear. Car coming up from Milltown took the opportunity to take a right and nearly wiped out cyclist. He pulled his brakes, went over bars and went down. He didn't appear to be half as annoyed with the driver as I would have been. He just picked himself and his bike up, and went on his way.

    I know a fellow who was in a crash in a similar but opposite manoeuvre. He was on the bike turning right, a stopped van in the outside oncoming lane obscured his view of a car coming up the inside oncoming lane. He got pretty badly bashed up when the car ran into him. As he was recounting what I had assumed was a cautionary tale of being extra careful turning across multiple lanes I suddenly realised that he was putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of the oncoming car. Other listeners were urging legal action and the like.

    I was a bit shocked to be honest. I didn't have the heart to point out that the car in that situation had the right of way, or even ask them to imagine the reversed roles scenario like in your story and get them to think about who made the mistake in those terms. I just kind of nodded along and wished him a get well soon.


  • #1879
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    papu wrote: »
    I had such an experience this morning where a lady in an SUV

    You didnt need to finish that sentence.


  • #1880
    check_six
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    ED E wrote: »
    You didnt need to finish that sentence.

    Thank goodness that vehicle has bull bars on the front for negotiating the urban jungle. Will come in handy when they have their inevitable series of crashes.


  • #1881
    cdaly_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    ED E wrote: »
    You didnt need to finish that sentence.

    Can you clarify this comment please? I'm not sure if you mean that the lack of a dick makes the lady unable to control her vehicle properly or that the existence of an SUV renders the driver incapable of properly interacting with society?

    Also, if the former, can you point out where the dick-operated controls are? I've never come across such controls in any vehicle that I've operated...


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  • #1882
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    check_six wrote: »
    Thank goodness that vehicle has bull bars on the front for negotiating the urban jungle. Will come in handy when they have their inevitable series of crashes.

    I used to see one far worse, where they had mounted metal huge bull horns to the front of the car. You'd get impaled on it if there was an accident involving something(someone) squishy!


  • #1883
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    Can you clarify this comment please? I'm not sure if you mean that the lack of a dick makes the lady unable to control her vehicle properly or that the existence of an SUV renders the driver incapable of properly interacting with society?

    Also, if the former, can you point out where the dick-operated controls are? I've never come across such controls in any vehicle that I've operated...

    Well good morning to you too snowflake.


  • #1884
    tommythecat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭tommythecat


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    FYP - if you watch any of the 'near misses' video clips shared on this thread you'll find plenty of overtakes that were done too quickly and involved swerving. If that wasn't happening then this thread wouldn't exist.

    But whatevs.....its nonsense stuff, the cyclists are all imagining it - the viewcams are obviously imagining it too.


    I was replying directly to what you said I didn't mention anything about cyclists imagining anything. So please don't completely change your point when you are shown to be talking nonsense. This is what you said:

    "If you are swerving and accelerating at the same time, its difficult to control a vehicle.

    Try it some time. Go to a roundabout - try to drive around it at 50k an hour, go around it two or three times."

    Again I never said anything about bad overtakes happening , I cycle and drive, I see them.
    I was literally pointing out that what you said simply should not be true for a driver who has passed their test. It's called basic progressive driving.

    4kwp South East facing PV System. 5.3kwh Weco battery. South Dublin City.



  • #1885
    I love Sean nos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    Can you clarify this comment please? I'm not sure if you mean that the lack of a dick makes the lady unable to control her vehicle properly or that the existence of an SUV renders the driver incapable of properly interacting with society?

    Also, if the former, can you point out where the dick-operated controls are? I've never come across such controls in any vehicle that I've operated...
    Seriously? :confused:


  • #1886
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    I used to see one far worse, where they had mounted metal huge bull horns to the front of the car. You'd get impaled on it if there was an accident involving something(someone) squishy!

    Bull bars should be illegal, no need for these in an urban situation. Lethal for pedestrians and cyclists, especially in the manner inn which people drive these vehicles. But hey, if you're navigating the vast safari that is Ranelagh or Castleknock, maybe they're required.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/modified-cars-and-trucks-could-now-be-seized-under-rsa-plans-29053591.html


  • #1887
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/modified-cars-and-trucks-could-now-be-seized-under-rsa-plans-29053591.html

    Well thats just ridiculous. not sure how a spoiler or lowering a car ever hurt anyone. Sounds like a money making racket to me.


  • #1888
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,686 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I love Sean nos wrote: »
    Seriously? :confused:
    well, i read it and thought 'that quote is a little unfortunate', but didn't put it down to any malice or deliberate intent to sound like a 'bloody women drivers' comment.


  • #1889
    axer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Chiparus wrote: »
    This morning I had a driver that tried to overtake me coming to a roundabout. then swerved in front of me, then got upset when I still managed to be in front of them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0KcXKKVQrU
    That's a suicidal move for a cyclist to do - it doesn't matter if the car driver's move was stupid - you are setting yourself to be side-swiped or squeezed.


  • #1890
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Well thats just ridiculous. not sure how a spoiler or lowering a car ever hurt anyone. Sounds like a money making racket to me.

    Well I've seen some motorists in modified vehicles behaving recklessly and dangerously so it's probably safer to just ban all modifications, or else pass legislation to make it onerous to use such a vehicle on public roads.


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  • #1891
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    axer wrote: »
    That's a suicidal move for a cyclist to do - it doesn't matter if the car driver's move was stupid - you are setting yourself to be side-swiped or squeezed.

    I thought that too when I saw it.


This discussion has been closed.
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