Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*

brookville · 21-06-2017 09:18PM

sasta le wrote: »

Brian Kennedy he still on senior panel?

No he was dropped after last year's league

dastardly00 · 21-06-2017 09:24PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

PP have KK at 1/20 to win and Westmeath at 10/1 to win. Seems a bit nuts considering the result last year and that at the end of the day it's still a two horse race...

I still can't believe the odds that were being offered...
Anybody know what what the handicap was?

Rasputin11 · 21-06-2017 09:27PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

I still can't believe the odds that were being offered...
Anybody know what what the handicap was?

PP opened at -8, Boyles at -10 and PP matched them this morning.

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 09:39PM

Faugheen wrote: »

11 point win but it flatters us big time.

There's something very wrong with the underage/club system. Our fitness rather than skill level won us that game. Westmeath more than a match skill-wise.

We need to start promoting the skills of hurling again. Far too many athletes rather than hurlers coming through.

So i assume you are involved in the uderage/club system since you know "there's something very wrong"?

So when did we stop "promoting the skills of hurling"?

Realt Dearg Sec · 21-06-2017 09:44PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

11 point win but it flatters us big time.

There's something very wrong with the underage/club system. Our fitness rather than skill level won us that game. Westmeath more than a match skill-wise.

We need to start promoting the skills of hurling again. Far too many athletes rather than hurlers coming through.

So i assume you are involved in the uderage/club system since you know "there's something very wrong"?

So when did we stop "promoting the skills of hurling"?

Do you think there's nothing wrong?

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 09:59PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Do you think there's nothing wrong?[/QUO

Are the players coming through at the moment as good as in the mid noughties only time will tell but it doesn't look like they are. That doesn't mean there is something wrong, these things go in cycles. I have been going to Kilkenny hurling matches for over 40 years and believe you me i have seen some very ordinary hurlers play for Kilkenny.

I am also involved with underage coaching and have a close relative involved with the Kilkenny Development squads for the last two years and i have a very detailed knowledge of what goes on. And everything they do with the development squads bar a one hour gym session a week for core work during January and February, is done with hurl and ball. It's all skills based!

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 10:04PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Do you think there's nothing wrong?[/QUO

Are the players coming through at the moment as good as in the mid noughties only time will tell but it doesn't look like they are. That doesn't mean there is something wrong, these things go in cycles. I have been going to Kilkenny hurling matches for over 40 years and believe you me i have seen some very ordinary hurlers play for Kilkenny.

I am also involved with underage coaching and have a close relative involved with the Kilkenny Development squads for the last two years and i have a very detailed knowledge of what goes on. And everything they do with the development squads bar a one hour gym session a week for core work during January and February, is done with hurl and ball. It's all skills based!

You could possibly be right about the squads training. But of little use if most of the skilful players are sitting at home.
When was the last time a player came through onto the senior team that didn't play with the squads.

If you think no player was missed by the squad system fair play to ya

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 10:16PM

dzer2 wrote: »

babyjesus14 wrote: »

You could possibly be right about the squads training. But of little use if most of the skilful players are sitting at home.
When was the last time a player came through onto the senior team that didn't play with the squads.

If you think no player was missed by the squad system fair play to ya

And where did i say no player was missed by the squad system? It's the clubs who send in their best players. Obviously some players develop at different stages that's why they are continually monitored from under 14 through to Minor. Size can be a major issue in teenagers, a guy who is too small at 14 could be a completely different animal at Minor.

JJs Left Hand · 21-06-2017 10:17PM

The squads system is a bit of a farce. This years U14 panel was picked on the basis of the Feile weekend in April or May. Are development squad coaches going to games during the year? How many are with each squad? Surely players should be getting drafted in and out on a regular basis at that age? Surely after that "original" U14 squad is picked there should be additional North and South development squads picked with weekly or fortnightly sessions with the best 3 or 4 players from each club sent into them?

dubcat51 · 21-06-2017 10:17PM

Diddnt see the game but backed kk at evens -10.just my luck to qin by 10.got to beat wexford now and push on.who stood out for us in what seems to be a poor performance.

Cornerback1 · 21-06-2017 10:18PM

A win's a win. We've no God given write to beat anybody at anytime. This relates to underage or seniors. We can go out and beat what's in front of us and this has happened i.e. Dublin and Westmeath U21's. A lot of these lads are in with the seniors so they are getting plenty of hurling.

The match tonight happened - poor first half but way better in second half. Westmeath probably deserve a bit of credit also in fairness. If we have a poor game, there's lads who'll want to change the whole structures of hurling in the county.

I'd say there'd be lads on here complaining if we beat Westmeath by 30pts. We're in a Leinster Final now in 2 weeks. Let's see how that goes.

JJs Left Hand · 21-06-2017 10:18PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

dzer2 wrote: »

And where did i say no player was missed by the squad system? It's the clubs who send in their best players. Obviously some players develop at different stages that's why they are continually monitored from under 14 through to Minor. Size can be a major issue in teenagers, a guy who is too small at 14 could be a completely different animal at Minor.

It was changed this year. Clubs didn't choose anyone. As above it was based on the Feile weekend and I assume schools hurling.

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 10:23PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

dzer2 wrote: »

And where did i say no player was missed by the squad system? It's the clubs who send in their best players. Obviously some players develop at different stages that's why they are continually monitored from under 14 through to Minor. Size can be a major issue in teenagers, a guy who is too small at 14 could be a completely different animal at Minor.

Your the one advocating the system and the coaches

I have dealt with a lot of them they couldn't see the woods for the trees in a lot of cases and are blinded by each others ideas. But as jjs hand says squads are a farce along with the go games.

After 10 yrs of it the weaker players are still gone in our club to an extent that we have no minor team and the under 14 is worse. The u12s are little better its down to coaches following their kids and promoting them beyond their capabilities.

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 10:25PM

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

babyjesus14 wrote: »

It was changed this year. Clubs didn't choose anyone. As above it was based on the Feile weekend and I assume schools hurling.

4 yrs I have being promoting this unfortunately they haven't taken it through the ages calling in the same players.

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 10:26PM

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

The squads system is a bit of a farce. This years U14 panel was picked on the basis of the Feile weekend in April or May. Are development squad coaches going to games during the year? How many are with each squad? Surely players should be getting drafted in and out on a regular basis at that age? Surely after that "original" U14 squad is picked there should be additional North and South development squads picked with weekly or fortnightly sessions with the best 3 or 4 players from each club sent into them?

You clearly know absolutely nothing about it!!! Every club in the county is asked to send their best 3 players with some of the bigger clubs sending in more if they feel they are up to it. It's not "picked on the basis of the Feile weekend", the Under 14's first go together at the end of March. They are split up into North, South and Central regions and are kept on the go the whole Summer until the Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh squads are picked in August three weeks before the competitions at the end of August.

nice_guy80 · 21-06-2017 10:31PM

just on this, I was down at Feile at the weekend
I saw a lot of Div 2 and Div 3 games, many involving Kilkenny teams in Ferns

my impression of a lot of games is that the club teams from Kilkenny relied on one or two big boys to overpower their opponents, with size being a priority and that there was no difference in the level of skill and that was in games vs Antrim, Wexford and Laois opposition

dubcat51 · 21-06-2017 10:32PM

Well what I saw of dicksboro u14s their not that big but fast and skillfull.

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 10:33PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

You clearly know absolutely nothing about it!!! Every club in the county is asked to send their best 3 players with some of the bigger clubs sending in more if they feel they are up to it. It's not "picked on the basis of the Feile weekend", the Under 14's first go together at the end of March. They are split up into North, South and Central regions and are kept on the go the whole Summer until the Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh squads are picked in August three weeks before the competitions at the end of August.

This is the way it was all along with A teams sending in 4 coaches sending in their sons and the sons of their friends. Better players left at home.

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 10:35PM

dzer2 wrote: »

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Your the one advocating the system and the coaches

I have dealt with a lot of them they couldn't see the woods for the trees in a lot of cases and are blinded by each others ideas. But as jjs hand says squads are a farce along with the go games.

After 10 yrs of it the weaker players are still gone in our club to an extent that we have no minor team and the under 14 is worse. The u12s are little better its down to coaches following their kids and promoting them beyond their capabilities.

As opposed to your ideas which are?

JJs Left Hand · 21-06-2017 10:37PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

You clearly know absolutely nothing about it!!! Every club in the county is asked to send their best 3 players with some of the bigger clubs sending in more if they feel they are up to it. It's not "picked on the basis of the Feile weekend", the Under 14's first go together at the end of March. They are split up into North, South and Central regions and are kept on the go the whole Summer until the Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh squads are picked in August three weeks before the competitions at the end of August.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that our club was told the clubs don't select them anymore and that the U14 selectors would be at the Kilkenny Feile weekend and the panel was to be picked after that.

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 10:39PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

dzer2 wrote: »

As opposed to you ideas which are?

Bring them all in and give them a trial at under 14. most clubs have 10 up to age players at that age apart from the city teams. about 50% wouldn't be interested anyway. So in april they will have give anyone interested a shot.

3 sections by 4 weeks lets every club send in 12 players.

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 10:46PM

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that our club was told the clubs don't select them anymore and that the U14 selectors would be at the Kilkenny Feile weekend and the panel was to be picked after that.

There's been three squads Central, North and South training for the last two months. Maybe there's no under 14's in your club good enough!:D

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 10:48PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

There's been three squads Central, North and South training for the last two months. Maybe there's no under 14's in your club good enough!:D

There is 3 lads in there from the club and 4 better hurlers skill wise and 2 of these are bigger chaps but they are at home:cool:

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 10:54PM

dzer2 wrote: »

There is 3 lads in there from the club and 4 better hurlers skill wise and 2 of these are bigger chaps but they are at home:cool:

Which is your opinion! Obviously not the opinion of the management of the ye're under 14 team!:) I bet if you and i picked the Kilkenny team for next weekend our teams would be different and the team which BC and his selectors pick would probably be different again and that's the only team that matters.

dzer2 · 21-06-2017 11:04PM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Which is your opinion! Obviously not the opinion of the management of the ye're under 14 team!:) I bet if you and i picked the Kilkenny team for next weekend our teams would be different and the team which BC and his selectors pick would probably be different again and that's the only team that matters.

Hey lad its easy to see where your coming from. Its amazing that the best 3 players are the coaches kids. Believe me I know a hurler in the making. I don't post here to often but keep an eye out.

In the last 6 yrs not a player from the club have made any under age county team. Club were asked to send in players for under 16 this year. The same players were sent in as were sent in at under 14. These players were sent home at under 14 and again this year.

I will leave it at that

v3ttel · 21-06-2017 11:07PM

Cornerback1 wrote: »

A win's a win. We've no God given write to beat anybody at anytime. This relates to underage or seniors. We can go out and beat what's in front of us and this has happened i.e. Dublin and Westmeath U21's. A lot of these lads are in with the seniors so they are getting plenty of hurling.

The match tonight happened - poor first half but way better in second half. Westmeath probably deserve a bit of credit also in fairness. If we have a poor game, there's lads who'll want to change the whole structures of hurling in the county.

I'd say there'd be lads on here complaining if we beat Westmeath by 30pts. We're in a Leinster Final now in 2 weeks. Let's see how that goes.

+1 on all of this. Morrissey, Leahy, Donnelly, Lyng and Scanlan all picked off fine scores tonight.

Won tonight by 10 points, could easily have had another 2 or 3 goals on top of that, even despite not showing up in the first half. It was the same negativity the last day after beating the Leinster holders by 5 in a fairly comfortable win. Let's see how the next day goes.

Reading the reaction after both U21 games so far, you'd swear we were beaten out of the gate in both games......"awful", "woeful" & "lack of skill". I guess I shouldn't be surprised given that all-star hurlers were compared to Christy Ring players here the other day. There's a generation that aren't used to Kilkenny not being dominant and everything needs ripping up if it's not a 20 point win because they know better than any coach. Kilkenny don't have a right to show up and win any game uncontested. Wins have to be earned and teams are not going to roll over and have their tummies tickled for us.

The likes of Leahy, Scanlan, J. Walsh & Donnelly (there are plenty more too but) are very talented and could all be excellent senior players in the future.

babyjesus14 · 21-06-2017 11:11PM

dzer2 wrote: »

Hey lad its easy to see where your coming from. Its amazing that the best 3 players are the coaches kids. Believe me I know a hurler in the making. I don't post here to often but keep an eye out.

In the last 6 yrs not a player from the club have made any under age county team. Club were asked to send in players for under 16 this year. The same players were sent in as were sent in at under 14. These players were sent home at under 14 and again this year.

I will leave it at that

And what is your involvement? Have you been to all your clubs under 14 and under 16 matches and training sessions? If you feel the whole system is so wrong why not get involved yourself? Change things from the inside out. I have yet to meet a club who is turning away mentors at under age level!

dubcat51 · 21-06-2017 11:42PM

Lads im involved with a dublin camogie squad.in dublin each team could send in 4 players and teams with 2 teams at the age could send 5(obe club sent 10)anyway we eventually got a squad of 50.we told the girls who didnt make it we would watch them at club level and if they improved we would have aother look at them with the squad.tonight we brought 10 players back in to have a look(some were injured during original trials so couldnt come,others we have seen with their clubs and have impressed us).so the point is if you watch games you should know who the best players are.in our case I can honestly say we know all the girls at the age were involved in.how good rhey will be time will tell.but from the 50 we have now about 10 will change between now and january.

Faugheen · 22-06-2017 12:31AM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

So i assume you are involved in the uderage/club system since you know "there's something very wrong"?

So when did we stop "promoting the skills of hurling"?

Don't talk to me like that. I have a huge interest in Kilkenny hurling at all age levels. You can take your sarcasm and jog on if you can't put a point across without throwing in the whole 'you must be involved so' nonsense. You don't have to be involved to see what's going on.

The last 10 years, overall, the standard of hurlers has gone down. There's plenty of quality hurlers who aren't getting the breaks. To name one - Andy Gaffney. To name a second - Andy's older brother Martin when he was that age.

That's not to say we haven't found any good players, but we had a team with a number of players on the senior panel tonight and with the exception of Scanlon, Donnelly and Leahy, they just didn't look like hurlers. Others like Jason Cleere relied on work rate to get by and I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he's more hurler than hard-working athlete.

Again, the likes of Scanlon are being kept out of the senior XV by hard workers such as Lester Ryan and Wally.

The underage thing has been done by others in this thread, I've little more to add other than the quality hurlers at underage in my club were shunned out.

I'll tell you one story. U12s (not my U12s but this is when it started for this particular crop), the manager tried to make sure his son was given every chance so kept putting him on frees and building a team around him, when there was one player who was clearly head and shoulders above him who was completely shunned out, because God forbid his son would be upstaged.

His parents got sick of it because their lad was getting upset, so they pulled him, and when they moved to U-14s this man (who was no longer manager) used his influence to try and prevent that boy going back to play the game he loved by getting the club to shun him out and come out with this bull**** that because he quit he couldn't just waltz back in. You're either in or your not.

The club folded when the lads older brother (who was a starter for the Kilkenny minors) threatened to walk as well.

This player went on to play for the Kilkenny minors and appeared in many schools finals. Imagine if he didn't love the game so much? He could have fallen through the cracks completely.

Go ahead and tell me there isn't a problem based on that? And based on what other people say here, my club isn't the only one this sort of bull**** happens at.

dobbs2210 · 22-06-2017 01:56AM

Eddie Brennan needs to have a serious discussion with Jason Cleere about all these blind alley solo runs that he has a massive habit of going off on. Running off on blind runs losing the ball, getting dispossessed and running balls out over sidelines.

Needs to be irradiated from his game.

A win is a win, home venue for the Leinster final against Wexford should help but Wexford will be a much more clinical side that will not spurn that chances that Westmeath did.

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*