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Do you think kids need parents of opposite sex?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    Not the gay card again, silly thread aimed to provoke, people can have their own opinions, look after your own family, that's all that matters


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    bubblypop wrote: »
    you can't just make sweeping statements like you did above and then say 'In my opinion'
    why would you think exactly that the lack of a parent will have negative long term impact on a child. Actual reasons, not just because you think it

    I'm not going to go down "links please" rabbit-hole but the stats say that, in general, children from one-parent families don't do as well as children with both parents involved ......... you can find studies etc online yourself if you're inclined to do some research.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,103 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gizmo81 wrote: »
    I just today watched a segment on BBC new Sunday morning news show of the winner of Champion Adopter of the Year. A single Gay man who has adopted 4 children with varying special needs.

    If straight people were such ideal parents then gay people wouldn't have children to adopt and wouldn't be winning Adopter of the Year, would they?

    Is this text-book homophobia? Fear that gay people will make better parents perhaps?


    One has nothing to do with the other.

    And no, it's not text-book homophobia, it's text-book arse-kissing. How many adoptive parents do you think would actually care about winning Champion Adopter of he Year? I'd say about as many dog owners care about winning Crufts.

    gizmo81 wrote: »
    I was just asking. It's over two years since The Children and Families Bill was introduced but people are still querying the suitability of gay people to be parents.


    I have a 12 year old son and people still question my suitability as a parent. Gay people who were never aware of other peoples opinions on their suitability as parents will get used to being constantly scrutinised too. People judge, it's what we do, and sometimes, we even judge people to be worthy of rubber medal awards just for doing what everyone else does every day of the week, people who don't crave validation from others at least.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    No, just ridiculing the idea that something must be natural or unnatural for it to be good or bad. Ridiculous thinking.

    If you want to go against the idea, fine. I see no problems. But come up with an actual logical reason first because it has nothing to do with nature.

    Socially, it's fine. Been fine for ages and been done well. Plenty of role models around of all genders. Not perfectly, but what is? Certainly not nature.

    Well I never actually said anything about "natural" or "unnatural" anyway so you're already at a disadvantage in discussing this topic with me as you haven't read my posts properly. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I'm not going to go down "links please" rabbit-hole but the stats say that, in general, children from one-parent families don't do as well as children with both parents involved ......... you can find studies etc online yourself if you're inclined to do some research.

    Again is that solely down to the fact they have no father or down to a combination of reasons.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭Ninjavampire


    A lot of people saying a child needs a male and female role model, whether it being a biological parent or member of the family.

    Can someone tell me what these influences offer the child? I struggle to understand what one parent can offer that the other can't based on their sex.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion




    We are all grown ups here and can argue all day.

    Listen to the words of a child. :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    To be fair he's paraphrasing Aquinas and it's what the church calls "Natural Science". It has the word science in it but it's about as sciency as homeopathy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Again is that solely down to the fact they have no father or down to a combination of reasons.

    The absence of a Father/Mother probably lead into other issues ......... a lot of those issues probably wouldn't arise (or be at least dealt with sufficiently) if both Parents were involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,103 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    A lot of people saying a child needs a male and female role model, whether it being a biological parent or member of the family.

    Can someone tell me what these influences offer the child? I struggle to understand what one parent can offer that the other can't based on their sex.


    Breast milk.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Well I never actually said anything about "natural" or "unnatural" anyway so you're already at a disadvantage in discussing this topic with me as you haven't read my posts properly. :)

    I never actually said you did say anything about natural or unnatural - I specifcially said I was ridiculing the idea.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Breast milk.

    Clutching at straws here - not every child is raised on breast milk.

    In any case, it's not really a relevant question because plenty of kids have role models outsdie the home that amptly fulfill the needs of any child. Many kids grow up without a male or female parent.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭FizzleSticks


    This post has been deleted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭gizmo81


    Can you explain what judgements people make on your suitability to be a parent, is it your sexuality?

    I didn't say this man cared about winning.

    Wait, Are you comparing children to dogs?

    Gay people have been aware of peoples 'scrutiny' of them on a range of issues, may I suggest not to tell gay people what they feel. And it's not on their ability to parent it's on their sexuality which has nothing to do with parenting.

    People may judge but some judge with facts others judge with prejudice.

    Gay people are just trying to get on with their lives, and definitely do not seek validation from straight people, however, straight people think that gay people need their permission to merely exist.
    One has nothing to do with the other.

    And no, it's not text-book homophobia, it's text-book arse-kissing. How many adoptive parents do you think would actually care about winning Champion Adopter of he Year? I'd say about as many dog owners care about winning Crufts.





    I have a 12 year old son and people still question my suitability as a parent. Gay people who were never aware of other peoples opinions on their suitability as parents will get used to being constantly scrutinised too. People judge, it's what we do, and sometimes, we even judge people to be worthy of rubber medal awards just for doing what everyone else does every day of the week, people who don't crave validation from others at least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭Ninjavampire


    Breast milk.

    That's not relevant to my point, I was clearly talking about what influence a male or female can offer to a child.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭pangbang


    I'd say, considering the entire history of mankind all the way from caves to skyscrapers, that yes, having a man and woman as parents to a child is ideal, and therefore best.

    That old "tested and proven" thing.

    I think this torrent of social indignation and "movements", whether it be homosexuality or neoliberalism, are just experiments. But why have these experiments at all? I put it down to one simple thing, boredom. People get bored REAL quick, and need some sort of agro, like some sort of mental imperative that provides a reason for existing.

    Like that Matrix film, the robots design an ideal nirvana for humans at first, but the whole system is a failure. So the robots revert to imperfection and strife as a virtual world, and it succeeds.

    F**cking with nature will come at a cost, even if it isn't apparent yet. Meh

    Or maybe another way to put it: people just don't have enough to do. A good old war is the sort of thing that puts priorities back in place. Its the human condition, and we are always at odds with ourselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,147 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    everlast75 wrote: »
    They need parents who give a sh?t. Gender or sexual persuasion is irrelevant.

    I love this post, seldom do you see a point being so well made using so few and simple words.
    Well done !!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    MadDog76 wrote:
    I'm not going to go down "links please" rabbit-hole but the stats say that, in general, children from one-parent families don't do as well as children with both parents involved ......... you can find studies etc online yourself if you're inclined to do some research.

    If that is because of having single gendered parents, surely the stats hold true for children of gay couples?
    MadDog76 wrote:
    The absence of a Father/Mother probably lead into other issues ......... a lot of those issues probably wouldn't arise (or be at least dealt with sufficiently) if both Parents were involved.

    What issues?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭pangbang


    540px; height:250px" tabindex="1" dir="ltr">
    _Brian wrote: »
    I love this post, seldom do you see a point being so well made using so few and simple words.
    Well done !!

    So youd say that the rest of humankinds history was just a fluke and that we were doing it wrong, and that in actual fact its the last 2-10 years that have it nailed?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,147 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    pangbang wrote: »
    540px; height:250px" tabindex="1" dir="ltr">

    So youd say that the rest of humankinds history was just a fluke and that we were doing it wrong, and that in actual fact its the last 2-10 years that have it nailed?

    No, I'd say kids need parents who give a ****, makes all the difference.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭pangbang


    _Brian wrote: »
    No, I'd say kids need parents who give a ****, makes all the difference.

    I'm glad you agree.

    And to the rest of your comment, the question posed isn't about good parent s or bad parents, its about gay or straight parents, that single point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,147 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    pangbang wrote: »
    I'm glad you agree.

    And to the rest of your comment, the question posed isn't about good parent s or bad parents, its about gay or straight parents, that single point.

    But it's like asking do they need parents with different hair colours, it matters more that the parents care and take a genuine interest in the kids, making the effort to parent them properly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    pangbang wrote: »
    540px; height:250px" tabindex="1" dir="ltr">

    So youd say that the rest of humankinds history was just a fluke and that we were doing it wrong, and that in actual fact its the last 2-10 years that have it nailed?

    This depends - is it only in the last 2-10 years paretns have started giving a ****?
    pangbang wrote: »
    I'm glad you agree.

    And to the rest of your comment, the question posed isn't about good parent s or bad parents, its about gay or straight parents, that single point.

    Actually, the question in the thread title refers to gender, not sexuality.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,103 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Clutching at straws here - not every child is raised on breast milk.

    In any case, it's not really a relevant question because plenty of kids have role models outsdie the home that amptly fulfill the needs of any child. Many kids grow up without a male or female parent.


    I hear ya PB, but the answer was a direct reply to a simple question, and while you contended earlier that we can't go cherry picking science, the evidence would suggest otherwise as human development is the least of all the exact sciences with politics being more influential than facts, particularly in the social sciences.

    A classic example of this is the discussion on whether breast is best, or as you contend above, whether it is actually necessary to breastfeed at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭keith_sixteen


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Not the gay card again, silly thread aimed to provoke, people can have their own opinions, look after your own family, that's all that matters

    I'd tend to agree AnneFrank.

    And while there are of course benefits to young children in having strong male and female influences in their lives, it's very much secondary to them in having a loving home.

    I've seen hetro couples whose kids are an utter inconvenience to them. One such family visited us recently. I was playing a silly game with one of my own kids with their 4 year old boy watching.

    As my daughter tired of my antics, their little boy raced over to me to play the same game with me. Kids thrive on attention and I felt awful bad for the little guy that their parents willfully deprived their own child of it. He could have played with me for hours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭pangbang


    _Brian wrote: »
    But it's like asking do they need parents with different hair colours, it matters more that the parents care and take a genuine interest in the kids, making the effort to parent them properly.

    But its not like your example. Men and women are different, that's all there is to it. There is even growing theory that the physical presence of a man or woman exerts a biochemical impact on a very young child, something akin to pheromones.

    Its the trend that "we are all the same" but "we are completely different" that is in vogue, a contradiction that will pass, like all trends.

    And I would still say the same thing, humankind has thrived/survived based on man and woman as parents since our very existence (just think about the enormity of that time scale, its sheer ignorance/arrogance to brush it away!), the complementarity of each contributing to a childs balanced development.

    And again, the question is entirely predicated on gay parents versus straight parents, nothing more.


  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I'm not going to go down "links please" rabbit-hole but the stats say that, in general, children from one-parent families don't do as well as children with both parents involved ......... you can find studies etc online yourself if you're inclined to do some research.

    no, sorry, you can't actually state that.
    'In general' ? really? in your opinion.
    there are many many reasons why a child my turn out the way they do. It cannot be determined just by their parents.
    it's actually insulting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I hear ya PB, but the answer was a direct reply to a simple question, and while you contended earlier that we can't go cherry picking science, the evidence would suggest otherwise as human development is the least of all the exact sciences with politics being more influential than facts, particularly in the social sciences.

    A classic example of this is the discussion on whether breast is best, or as you contend above, whether it is actually necessary to breastfeed at all.

    True, question should really have said asked if there was anything essential that can only be given by one gender-specific parent which is unavailble elsewhere.

    Also - I never said anything about cherry-picking science (or did I?)? I think that was someone else.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    In my view yes, I think it's better to have a mother and father who are loving and supportive of the child - as mentioned by others, a man and woman bring different things to parenting, and each is better at different aspects than the other, which ultimately is beneficial.

    That doesn't make me homophobic or anything of the sort (before the virtue signalling types jump in again), it's simply an acknowledgement of reality outside of the Internet.

    If it is the reality why haven't studies shown it to be true?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭Ninjavampire


    I hear ya PB, but the answer was a direct reply to a simple question, and while you contended earlier that we can't go cherry picking science, the evidence would suggest otherwise as human development is the least of all the exact sciences with politics being more influential than facts, particularly in the social sciences.

    A classic example of this is the discussion on whether breast is best, or as you contend above, whether it is actually necessary to breastfeed at all.

    You didn't reply to my 'simple question', you misrepresented what I said. I was talking about what inherently male or female influences a child could be offered by a male or female role model.


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