Sugar

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So nothing to do with our mainly sedentary lifestyle coupled with abundant cheap food?.

No. Nothing to do with sedentary lifestyles. It's all to do with what you stuff in your face. I don't believe it's necessary to exercise to be lean. Detrimental to your cardiovascular system yes, but not your weigh.

I believe that if one did not eat starchy addictive carbs then they wouldn't eat more than they naturally would.

I know of many ppl who never exercise in their lives other than walk, who are not overweight.

Well without science it is just your opinion. If it seems obvious to you, fair enough. But it's not exactly compelling to others

Neither are Mellors arguments compelling to me.

I'd agree with the latter part, certainly. Studies on rats suggest that it is neither fat nor sugar alone, but the combination of them that causes overeating:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/addicted-to-fat-eating/

I agree. Like when fat is combined with starchy carbs like pizza and burgers. But it is the starchy carbs that are at fault, not the fat.

Not everyone. I find claims made by the atkins people that you can eat an unlimited amount of fatty meat so long as you don't eat any carbs and lose weight or not gain weight to be highly suspicious.

That's because you don't fully understand it. Your have read it in theory, but you don't understand it in practice.

The atkins 'people' don't say you can eat an unlimited amount of fat and not gain weight. That's absurd. You have totally mis-understood what they say. Rather they mean you can eat to the point that your satiated and that that point will arrive way sooner than if you ate a bowl of pasta. Who doesn't eat a bowl of pasta and go back to the pot for another portion. This does not happen if one eats a high fat meal.

Some people find that protein and fat give them a feeling of satiety that an equivalent amount of carbohydrates does not give them, but I do not and if I ate all the fat I wanted I would put on a massive amount of weight.

Again your lack of experience of ever trying a high fat diet is telling here.

Your fear is that if you ate a high fat diet that you would munch away in the same way that you eat you carbs. You won't. Because fat is not addictive and you will feel satiated far quicker meaning you will eat much smaller portions.

Again, not always. For some people, they will overeat sugar and carbs. But for others, overeating is a more continuous problem. Likewise, many people can eat lots of carbs and not be obese, if they have a balanced diet and take regular exercise. Most athletes, i.e. the fittest people on the planet, consume large amounts of starchy carbs.

Most ppl aren't athletes. They have special requirements. Your athletes are not fit as a directly result of eating a high carb diet.

Some people are, like Ottolengi. But you are trying to pick the most boring of food. Most meat eaters would be very passionate about the types of meat they eat - dry aged striploin steak, braised beef cheek, pork loin, lobster, venison etc etc are all highly desirable foods that many people are very passionate about.

Yes some ppl are 'overeaters', nothing to do with taste or addiction. That's a purely psychological issue.

You completely missed my point about the broccoli with butter, as did Mellor. I think broccoli with butter is extremely tasty, just like sweet stuff is, but I'd never feel addicted to it in the same way I'd crave anything sweet. Think about that.

On the other hand, some people aren't really pushed about sugar. For myself, I have no real interest in sugar if I am eating an otherwise filling diet i.e. I'm not running a prolonged calorie deficit. The only time I crave sugar is if I've been severely undereating for a few days or if I'm hungover. The craving is not based on addiction, but based on the fact that my body requires energy and has associated sweet foods with energy because of the high levels of carbohydrate.

You are right. Some ppl are not pushed about sugar. But there are a lot of ppl who are pushed about starchy carbs, and some who are pushed about starchy carbs AND sugary drinks/food. For me, the two go hand in hand.

Mellor wrote: »

But but but...your lack of experience with ever trying high fat diet was telling...

But but but, that comment I made was to johnnyskeleton not ford2600.

Bredabe wrote: »

Having scanned the replies here I would just like to respond to points to avoid any arguments re my OP.
I work with addicts and know what addiction looks like, there are histories of addiction in my family, I have seen adiction cllrs who say I tick most of the boxes for substances addiction. So for me I dont used the word addiction frivolously.

Now and the reason I asked here, what I need are constructive strategies for killing sugar craving(a substance that was mainlined into me from the time I was hours old) before I get overwhelmed/compulsed, I used to use slightly sweetened lemon water, but my oh so sensitive tum has rebelled in a BIG BIG way against that, same issues with fruit annoyingly. Ex smokers of my acquaintance tell me that the hands thing passes over time.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103658669&postcount=11

Bredabe wrote: »

I did the diary with the dietitian, I know what the triggers are but its not under my control to deal with those triggers. The sugar cravings were just as bad when i had control of my environment.

I sleep ok, but its also impacted by hormones and no one knows any fix for it, even on the day's I can walk miles there is no guarantee of a full nights sleep.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103658669&postcount=11

Your say that you know what addiction looks like but you don't seem to recognize it in yourself.

Bredabe wrote: »

I do,which is why I said Im addicted, its other ppl who claimed otherwise.

My apologies. My point was so pugnaciously attacked by you know who that I felt no one on this thread would even consider for a second that I have a valid point.

So, why don't you take my advice and give up the sugar completely. I can tell you from personal experience that if you give up sugar altogether you won't miss it. Your memory of a 'nice taste' will continue to exist in your mind and diminish but it will always just be a memory, just that, and not a craving that one can't control.

The problem with being addicted to sugar and giving it up is the irrational notion that one won't be able to experience a nice taste. Again from personal experience this is an unfounded fear, and in fact you will find savory foods to be more tasty than ever before because all that sugary food really screws up your taste buds and your sense of taste.

So, good luck, let us know how it goes.

Bredabe wrote: »

The plan is to give up completely, well in as much as I have control over it, I dont have time to read every package for info(once I kick the junk sugar, less of a concern anyway), now as always, the crashing issue has been the cravings and empty hands sensation.

Well maybe you don't have time to read every package label but maybe the problem is you are eating too many foods that have labels on them at all. Veg, meat, fruit don't have nutritional labels on them. So many sauces are full of sugar, BBQ sauces, ketchup etc. I personally limit my sauces to dijon mustard and full fat mayo. No sugar in them at all.

Im told the hands thing resolves itself in a few days, it's something that cuts the cravings I really need, as I eat fruit and veg as a matter of course, that doesn't cut the craving, neither does exercise, meditation, or low sugar options(tho those do help with the days when my brain feels it needs sugar to get going) my reliable sweetened citrus drink has started to give me more horrible side effects that its worth.

The hands thing is no different from the problem an ex-smoker has. A smoker never smoked because they enjoyed using their hands to smoke.

Again, if you are to give sugar up completely then the only way you can do it is to actually give up it up completely, which means don't eat any fruit or consume any kind of artificial sweeteners ( which act as triggers for your addiction). Fruit has a very high percentage of sugar and no one needs to eat fruit to be healthy as long as your eating your veg. If you didn't have a sugar addiction then eating fruit in moderation would be fine.

Bredabe wrote: »

Porridge, brown rice, spelt bread, grains, eggs, all have packaging, so cant dismiss those foods altogether, I dont digest proteins well, so I dont read meat labels.

What you say about no fruit directly contradicts when my dietitian says, granted her idea was to replace processed sugar with fruit/veg sugars, but I think its dangerous to say anyone should be fruit free, even my fam who are allergic to it have a fruit substitute in their diet.

If you want to give up sugar properly you do need to read labels. Take porridge as an example, Flahavan's progress oatlets (40g) have 0.4g of sugar if made with water, Flahavan's Quick Oats Original Portable Porridge Pot (44g) have 7.3g. That's a huge difference for a product that a lot of people would think is the same.

dastardly00 wrote: »

I've never used any of those Flahavan's porridge pots or similar products before, but it's fairly ridiculous/scandalous (I'm outraged Joe :pac:) that they are adding in 7g of sugar when the 'normal' progress oatlets do not have added sugar.

That's pretty shocking alright.

Blacktie. wrote: »

I can get how this seems scandalous and all but 7g of sugar is not a whole lot. I never understood this whole thing about freaking out about the odd 3 or 4g of sugar in products. Like the sugar content of protein powder. If you cut back on the chocolate that's a good start to knocking off like 40g of sugar in one go. 7g is not going to make all that much of a difference on a typical western diet.

I understand what you're saying and I agree that 7g of sugar isn't that much to someone say consuming +100g per day or whatever.

But the added sugar is just so unnecessary. The normal oat products from Flavahan's have no added sugar. Why did they have to add in sugar.

A similar situation would be yoghurt.

dastardly00 wrote: »

But the added sugar is just so unnecessary. The normal oat products from Flavahan's have no added sugar. Why did they have to add in sugar.

The Pots are 81% oats, the rest is sugar and milk powder. I imagine it's because the they are supposed to be for eating on the go, just add water.
If you make normal oats at home with milk, you're probably adding a similar amount of sugar. They're just doing it for you here.

Mellor wrote: »

Exercise is not necessary, by any means.
But with average activity decreasing due to lifestyle and no change to intake, the result is an increase in weight/body fat levels.


What exactly do you think my argument is?

For the record imo, weight gain/obesity by consuming excess energy. The reason for over consumption is complex and varied.


Why does energy from carbs matter more than energy from fat in a pizza?
If I eat a large burger, does fat or carbs contribute more energy the excess?


If somebody decided to eat only crispy pork belly, ribs or fried chicken wings . How do think their energy intake would look like? All high fat, highly satiating food. But they'd have over consumer energy before they realised it.


And some who love processed high fat foods, or fatty/starchy/salty foods - no sugar involved.

for some of us who have high cholesterol and borderline diabetic, starches and carbs are a problem, along with high fat content foods like butter, cheese ,ghee, margarine, some cooking oils, red meats, gluten, , very hard when a person is new to these problems, I am one of those, eating out is impossible, all the things I have loved and love are my problem, trying to live a different way all of a sudden is hard,

Blacktie. wrote: »

I don't know enough about the condition to really talk about this but if carbs and fats are a problem what are you meant to eat pure protein???

People tend to be very black and white with these things, so when they are told they need to stop over-consumption of fats and carbs, they jump to the position that all carbs, fats, gluten, sugar etc, etc are bad for them.

Ironically, trying to survive on only protein is actually bad for you. Leads to protein poisoning.

Blacktie. wrote: »

I don't know enough about the condition to really talk about this but if carbs and fats are a problem what are you meant to eat pure protein???

allowed fish, turkey, chicken, all veg, most fruit, and now supplement milk by doing half and half low fat milk mixed with hemp or soya milk, cannot go without the milk, substituted butter with actevia omega 3 , sugar with candrel, ,no biscuits bought cakes, crackers, but do do the multigrain bread, love the ryvita with hummous, and taking the fish oils, also was recommended by doctor to drink green tea, I cannot stand the stuff, just hate the taste of it, so I take the green tea capsules instead to have it in there, Hardest part of the diet, is when I am away from home, cannot follow have to give in so far, always eating plenty veg dishes while away