Sugar

Bredabe

Trying to cut down on my sugar, but the cravings and not knowing what to do with my hands is killing me.
Anyone got any non exercise idea's on how to deal with the cravings?

Amirani

Try to eat satiating meals that are rich in protein and good fats. Limiting your carbs to primarily complex carbs should reduce your insulin spikes and thus sugar cravings.

As regard the habit of eating - try snacking on some celery/carrot sticks sort of thing?

mathie

Bredabe wrote: »

Trying to cut down on my sugar, but the cravings and not knowing what to do with my hands is killing me.
Anyone got any non exercise idea's on how to deal with the cravings?

I was in the same boat.
I used to eat a packet of shortbread biscuits and a packet of "natural" jellies every night. I was hooked.

Now I eat neither but it didn't happen overnight.

I gradually (as Amirani recommended below) ate more satiating meals and cut back on the sugary treats.

I then started to have a dessert of porridge and raspberries :eek:
that may not be for you but you could find "healthier" treats like more natural sugars found in fruits?

What is it that you're eating?

You could even try to make your own desserts/snacks and lower the amount of sugar that you put into them over time?
I've even used prunes/figs in a nutribullet and put them in with oats and raisins for a healthier option biscuit.

Bredabe

mathie wrote: »

I was in the same boat.
I used to eat a packet of shortbread biscuits and a packet of "natural" jellies every night. I was hooked.

Now I eat neither but it didn't happen overnight.

I gradually (as Amirani recommended below) ate more satiating meals and cut back on the sugary treats.

I then started to have a dessert of porridge and raspberries :eek:
that may not be for you but you could find "healthier" treats like more natural sugars found in fruits?

What is it that you're eating?

You could even try to make your own desserts/snacks and lower the amount of sugar that you put into them over time?
I've even used prunes/figs in a nutribullet and put them in with oats and raisins for a healthier option biscuit.

My diet is fine even with my many allergies, its been tweaked within an inch of its life. I dont like biscuits/cakes, I dont eat dessert unless im eating out or its a bank holiday.
It's the junk sugar is the issue for me, especially sweet/sour combinations in sweets/drinks, filled choc's and the like. Failed many many times to kick this one and not ever succeeded beyond a few months. Its odd to me, there are substances to help drinkers/drug takers to cut down or out that substances. For sugar addiction Im offered, deep breaths,walks(which bring me past sweet shops) and meditation or eft. Doesn't really seem as useful tho.

ford2600

Bredabe wrote: »

Trying to cut down on my sugar, but the cravings and not knowing what to do with my hands is killing me.
Anyone got any non exercise idea's on how to deal with the cravings?

Overeating sugar is pretty hardwired in us; probably an important instinct in our survival/evolution.

Obesity researchers to two main drivers to eat
*homeostasis drive which aims to keep up blood sugar and fat levels; a specific area of brain and group of hormones regulate that
*hedonic eating; eat for pleasure even when "full". Pretty "rewarding" behaviour.

You can't change your instincts but you can do as suggested regarding better quality meals (especially more fibre & plenty protein).

In relation to hedonic drive your best tool is to take control of your food environment; don't shop hungry, don't buy junk, rather than going for a coffee and a bun with your friend, go for a walk with her/him etc

In nature pretty hard to overeat on sugar on a regular basis. Only finding a bee hive would compare with our modern world. Pretty common for hunters not to bring any honey home but gorge it on the spot

njs030

Really fresh blueberries have that sweet/sour kick especially if you put one inside a raspberry and eat them together.
Ice cold fizzy water with fresh lime is nice and covers another sweet/sour sensation.
Grapes in the freezer is an old trick for chewy sweet replacement.

Once you transfer away from sweets to fruit you can cut down and replace them with vegetables.

Bredabe

notjustsweet wrote: »

Really fresh blueberries have that sweet/sour kick especially if you put one inside a raspberry and eat them together.
Ice cold fizzy water with fresh lime is nice and covers another sweet/sour sensation.
Grapes in the freezer is an old trick for chewy sweet replacement.

Once you transfer away from sweets to fruit you can cut down and replace them with vegetables.

I eat as much fruit/veg as I can, but i still crave bad sugar. That fizzy water with lime sounds lovely, not had one of those since I was in my 20's.

zweton

is using canderel really bad?

Alf Veedersane

zweton wrote: »

is using canderel really bad?

If you 'cook' it and use it intravenously, then yes.

Otherwise, unless you're using industrial quantities, it's probably not.

If you get to a point where your consumption of Canderel is the most questionable of all the things you eat and drink, you're probably going to be fine.

marialouise

I used to eat like 2 bars of chocolate a day. Now I eat maybe a square of 85% chocolate twice a week or something. It took a lot of time to get there but I did it eventually! I started by cutting down for a long time. 1 bar a day instead of two, for a few months. Then one mini bar every day. Then something every other day. Then just a few times a week.... But all of this spread out over the course of several months.

At the moment I just don't keep it in the house. I generally don't buy it, but anyway it's just easier for me if it's out of reach.

One of the "eureka" moments for me was when I started using MyFitnessPal. I had previously had a nutritionist so all my meals every day were planned out for me, and after I finished that meal plan I started just typing in my own stuff just to see how I was getting on without the nutritionist. It was Christmas, and I had 3 miniature heroes. I will never forget the feeling of shock as I saw just how much of a dent they made into my calories and sugar for the whole day, it was kind of offputting...

I still like chocolate and enjoy it, and actually probably would eat a huge dairy milk by myself if it was put in front of me but I just don't enjoy it quite the same as I did before, so I find it very easy to eat in moderation now. It's just pure crap, but it's tasty and a square of dark chocolate hits the spot for me a few days a week. I think deep breaths or taking a walk aren't very helpful, just maybe try and cut back and don't make it "forbidden" or it will just seem even more enticing. I allow myself to eat it and that's what makes it easier for me, I often then don't end up eating it because it's not banned!

Like other posters I have come up with lower-sugar alternatives liek fruit, cacao, chocolate flavour protein, protein bars etc. Try using MyFitnessPal for a while maybe and when you see the figures in front of you it might help you curb your habit! It is just a habit and it's hard to break but don't be so hard on yourself either or you'll just be spinning your wheels.

AllForIt

Bredabe wrote: »

Trying to cut down on my sugar, but the cravings and not knowing what to do with my hands is killing me.
Anyone got any non exercise idea's on how to deal with the cravings?

Yes. Cut it out altogether.

Realize it is not the taste your addicted too but it's the fact that sugar is addictive and I would classify sugar as highly addictive.

If you cut out sugar altogether you won't crave it after a period of about 28 days possibly even less.

The problem with cutting down on it that it will be extremely difficult to do because it's addictive and once you consume some of it you will crave more.

If it wasn't addictive then you could have one or two sweets a week and keep it like that but you won't because even eating that much will make you crave more leading to ultimately failing in your desire to restrict it.


Try to understand that your personal reluctance to give up nice tasty thinks - cut down instead of give up - is exactly attributable to the additive effect of the offending foodstuff.

If you do manage to cut it out altogether then I believe it is possible to have a once in a blue moon dessert without going back on it full time.

Edit: One more tip. If you do decide to go cold turkey as I suggest - don't use any kind of artificial sweater as a substitute - for the 2 month at least. You are trying to get your mind off the idea of sweetness altogether and using artificial sweater won't do that for you. It will keep your mind on it, the exact opposite of what you want. When you have gotten to a stage where you break your addiction and a good bit beyond you could then use artificial sweeter but by that stage you shouldn't really have a desire for sweet things anyway.

Mellor

Bredabe wrote: »

My diet is fine even with my many allergies, its been tweaked within an inch of its life. I dont like biscuits/cakes, I dont eat dessert unless im eating out or its a bank holiday.

It is a weight loss/control thing. Or a general health thing?
Slightl different approach needed for each.

zweton wrote: »

is using canderel really bad?

No. It's fine, and extremely well researched. Most negative reports are from highly questionable sites.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you get to a point where your consumption of Canderel is the most questionable of all the things you eat and drink, you're probably going to be fine.

^This 100%

AllForIt wrote: »

Realize it is not the taste your addicted too but it's the fact that sugar is addictive and I would classify sugar as highly addictive.

How is it not the taste?
That's precisely what people crave. If you ingest without tasting it, I highly doubt you'll get nearly the same cravings or relief from cravings.

Sugar is not highly addictive. Not even close.
It's enjoyable to eat, and people find they get "addicted" to the taste. But they use the term informally. Like being addicted to reality TV.
The idea that it's an actual addiction is not backed up by science.

jeanjolie

Isn't there a herb that is used to block the sensation of sweetness in the tongue by the tastebuds?


Gymnemna Slyvestre

mathie

Mellor wrote: »

Sugar is not highly addictive. Not even close.
It's enjoyable to eat, and people find they get "addicted" to the taste. But they use the term informally. Like being addicted to reality TV.
The idea that it's an actual addiction is not backed up by science.

Sugar is addictive. You can debate the gradation but it is addictive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/

it compared the effects of sugar to those of cocaine and likened the symptoms of coming off it to going 'cold turkey'.

Excess sugar consumption has been proven to contribute directly to weight gain. It has also been shown to repeatedly elevate dopamine levels which control the brain's reward and pleasure centres in a way that is similar to many drugs of abuse including tobacco, cocaine and morphine.

Alf Veedersane

A study. I'm not sure it's scientific consensus.

Either way, people hang their hat on their sugar 'addiction' as an excuse to give themselves a free pass for eating sugar-laden food and exercise little/no discipline.

mathie

More here Dr. Robert Lustig ...

https://authoritynutrition.com/how-sugar-makes-you-addicted/

When we eat foods that contain a lot of sugar, a massive amount of dopamine is released in an area of the brain called the Nucleus Accumbens.

When we eat these foods often and in large amounts, the dopamine receptors start to down-regulate. Now there are fewer receptors for the dopamine.

This means that the next time we eat these foods, their effect is blunted. We will need more junk food next time we eat in order to get the same level of reward.

Sugar and other junk foods, due to their powerful effect on the reward centers of the brain, function similarly to drugs of abuse like cocaine and nicotine (1).

The exact same brain centers are at play. People who have a certain predisposition to addiction become addicted to these foods and lose control over their consumption.

This is basically how sugar and other junk foods “hijack” the brain chemistry to make us crave more and eat more.

mathie

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A study. I'm not sure it's scientific consensus.

Either way, people hang their hat on their sugar 'addiction' as an excuse to give themselves a free pass for eating sugar-laden food and exercise little/no discipline.

Do you think that sugar isn't addictive?

Alf Veedersane

mathie wrote: »

Do you think that sugar isn't addictive?

Do you think people don't tell themselves they're addicted when they're not?

mathie

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Do you think people don't tell themselves they're addicted when they're not?

I think I need a Turing machine to decode that one.

Macy0161

My own n=1 research is that I still struggle with this at certain times. Particularly after drinking, and if I fall into old habits of diet fizzies... Cutting out the diet coke/ coke zero really helped me. Not prepared to give up my weekly beer night, but working on strategies to avoid the crash/ increase the willpower after my pints!

I did start off on the dark chocolate, and it worked. For a while. Now I'd eat a 85% stuff like it's dairy milk tbh! My approach has to be make "healthier" alternatives like wholegrain fruit loafs, and dried fruit (pitted dates, frozen, really hit the mark although again I still have to be aware of portion control) that give me a bit of sweetness. Not ideal, still sugar, but I run with it being less processed and better than a moro.

ford2600

mathie wrote: »

Sugar is addictive. You can debate the gradation but it is addictive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/

If you want to design highly rewarding foods (and companies do) sugar is one of the things you would want to add, but it's by no means the only. You would want to also consider
*salt
*fat
* texture etc

We have receptors for lots of things linked to dopamine reease other than sugar.

From my reading on it, there is no consensus on food/sugar addiction in the scientific community

AllForIt

Mellor wrote: »

How is it not the taste?
That's precisely what people crave.

The OP said he had CRAVINGS for sugar. Does that not explain to you why it's not about the taste?

If you ingest without tasting it, I highly doubt you'll get nearly the same cravings or relief from cravings.

I highly doubt your right about that. Anything that is addictive does not have to be administered through the mouth via the taste buds, it could be done intravenously as in the case of hard core drugs. As an ex-smoker I still enjoy the smell of cigarettes but that sense of pleasure I get only comes about by the memory I have from the pleasure I experienced by the effect of nicotine in the brain, not the smell of smoke.

Sugar is not highly addictive. Not even close.
It's enjoyable to eat, and people find they get "addicted" to the taste. But they use the term informally. Like being addicted to reality TV.
The idea that it's an actual addiction is not backed up by science.

Sugar is highly addictive and it is the the primary cause of obesity in western culture. I don't personally need to see a scientific paper on this to prove what is completely obvious to anyone who has a basic understanding of the composition of food that causes people in our society eat and drink more than they should. I would wonder if anyone would really have serious physical withdraw symptoms if they stopped watching reality TV. I doubt it.

Sugar and to a lesser extent starchy carbohydrates have the same effect, that is, once you eat them, you want more, which leads to OVEREATING, the major reason ppl can't keep their calorific intake under control. Which makes a mockery of all this ridiculous calorie counting strategy imo.

Fat is not addictive. It is addictive when it is combined with starchy carbohydrates, in for example foodstuffs like pizza or burgers and that type of junk food.

In fact high fat diets do more to satisfy ppl's appetite than any other diets and prevent overeating. I stress, overeating is the major cause of obesity due to the addictive nature of sugar and starchy carbs.

So in conclusion I ask you why isn't anyone passionate about the taste of steamed broccoli with noting on it ? Do you still really think it's all about a matter of a 'taste' preference and nothing to do with the addictive consequence of eating sugar?

Mellor

mathie wrote: »

Sugar is addictive. You can debate the gradation but it is addictive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/

I was firstly getting at the ridiculous "highly" label.
Heroin is highly addictive, Crystal Meth is highly addictive. Putting sugar alone side them is just nonsense.

Now, the addictive part in itself is debatable.
Sugar is nice, it's desirable, people decide they want to wat it and then eat more of it. That doesn't make it addictive.
Lot's of thing act on our dopamine, that doesn't mean they are addictive. I'd imagine a feel-good movie would have similar dopamine response in many people. The articles like the above use sketchy definitions of addiciton like that to classify sugar addiction.

Here's a recent study;
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-016-1229-6

Results

We find little evidence to support sugar addiction in humans, and findings from the animal literature suggest that addiction-like behaviours, such as bingeing, occur only in the context of intermittent access to sugar. These behaviours likely arise from intermittent access to sweet tasting or highly palatable foods, not the neurochemical effects of sugar.

Conclusion

Given the lack of evidence supporting it, we argue against a premature incorporation of sugar addiction into the scientific literature and public policy recommendations.

mathie wrote: »

I think I need a Turing machine to decode that one.

I think he is referring to the fact that actual addicts (drugs, nicotine, alcohol) tend to deny their addictions. They won't recognise that they're addicts, they claim they can quit at any time.
On the contrary, "sugar addicts" tend to readily accept the label. As it on some level justifies their behavior.
Another difference is that a cured drug addict, or alcoholic should NEVER try to have small "acceptable" amounts of their poison. But somebody who overcomes a weight issue, or a sugar issue, should be more than capable of moderate, normal levels of sugar intake in the future.

Mellor

AllForIt wrote: »

The OP said he had CRAVINGS for sugar. Does that not explain to you why it's not about the taste?

No because he is craving the taste. I'm not sure why you thin capitalising it would change that.
Last weekend I craved a burger (and I ha one). I simply wanted to eat one. It wasn't some chemical dependency.

I highly doubt your right about that. Anything that is addictive does not have to be administered through the mouth via the taste buds, it could be done intravenously as in the case of hard core drugs.

Anything addictive sure. Nicotine, heroin, etc
But not sugar, hmm, why could that be?

As an ex-smoker I still enjoy the smell of cigarettes but that sense of pleasure I get only comes about by the memory I have from the pleasure I experienced by the effect of nicotine in the brain, not the smell of smoke.

Yes the smell of smokes, is linked in your brain to the chemical effects of nicotine.

Somebody might associated a certain aftershave with a deceased loved on and become sentimental when they smell it. It's simply mental connections, which has nothing to do with addiction.

Sugar is highly addictive and it is the the primary cause of obesity in western culture. I don't personally need to see a scientific paper on this to prove what is completely obvious to anyone who has a basic understanding of the composition of food that causes people in our society eat and drink more than they should. I would wonder if anyone would really have serious physical withdraw symptoms if they stopped watching reality TV. I doubt it.

I'm well aware of the impact sugar has on obesity. That problem isn't dependent on it being addictive. People eat more and more because they enjoy it, and they lack the control. Eating is also a very temporary satisfaction. You eat something, it's nice, you go back and eat more.

Sugar and to a lesser extent starchy carbohydrates have the same effect, that is, once you eat them, you want more, which leads to OVEREATING, the major reason ppl can't keep their calorific intake under control. Which makes a mockery of all this ridiculous calorie counting strategy imo.

Calories counting is perfectly viable. All diets need a calories deficit.
If somebody trys to achieve that deficit with sugar. The issue not with calories counting.

Fat is not addictive. It is addictive when it is combined with starchy carbohydrates, in for example foodstuffs like pizza or burgers and that type of junk food.

But a bowl of satly peanuts on a bar. They don't last long, keep topping them up and people will keep eating them. High fat, High salt, low sugar.

People might comment "these nuts are addictive, nyom nyom nyom". But they are taking about the taste, not an actual chemical dependency.

In fact high fat diets do more to satisfy ppl's appetite than any other diets and prevent overeating. I stress, overeating is the major cause of obesity due to the addictive nature of sugar and starchy carbs.

No. Overeating is a major cause of obesity due to the fact that overeating results in excess energy intake. It's very easy to overeat on a low sugar diet if you eat the wrong foods.

So in conclusion I ask you why isn't anyone passionate about the taste of steamed broccoli with noting on it ? Do you still really think it's all about a matter of a 'taste' preference and nothing to do with the addictive consequence of eating sugar?

Your conclusion is extremely weak. Nothing you've said backs up the stance you are taking. If anything it backs my point up. People aren't passionate about broccoli due to the taste. It's that simple.
People aren't passionate about raw potato, but crisps and chips are a different story. Why? because it's the taste that matters, not the chemical make up.

marialouise

ford2600 wrote: »

If you want to design highly rewarding foods (and companies do) sugar is one of the things you would want to add, but it's by no means the only. You would want to also consider
*salt
*fat
* texture etc

We have receptors for lots of things linked to dopamine reease other than sugar.

From my reading on it, there is no consensus on food/sugar addiction in the scientific community

This one struck me the most as a "former addict". Like I said I could put away a few bars a day before, because they were highly palatable foods and I had no control, not because I was addicted to sugar.

As one example, I have eaten "diabetic" chocolate, made with artificial sweeteners, and at the time it hit the spot. I mean if it was really sugar that I was addicted to, wouldn't people just eat table sugar off a tea spoon? But no one does, because that's gross. It's the sweet taste of something which is appealing, not the glucose (/sucrose/fructose etc).

After my dinner I still "crave" something sweet, but I'm not addicted to sugar. I have some berries and greek yoghurt, or my home made treats which involve cacao powder and artificial sweetener. Not high in sugar, but still satisfying because it's sweet and I like that from time to time after my savoury meal.

Also, I can overeat anything (even broccoli!). It's not addiction, it's just I don't recognise very well when I've had enough. To overcome this I weigh out my food and cook in bulk, so if something is supposed to make two portions for today and tomorrow's dinner, it stops me overeating as I'll just wind up with less food tomorrow! But when I make a big pot of anything, I could overeat it, even when very low in sugar. So I do think that's part of the obesity crisis some of you are referring to - people having no control over food, and then the availability of rubbish food means they are overeating rubbish. I live alone and don't have any junk food in the house so it's not within easy reach, but I could still eat a large amount of savoury (low carbohydrate) food at home if I felt so inclined.

Mellor you made some really great posts here sorry I couldn't quote them all!

To anyone who thinks they're addicted to sugar, maybe you're just stuck very deep in a habit which needs changing. You either need to address the 'overeating' part by taking a look at what patterns are leading you to overeat (for me it was not eating a satisfying meal and then being hungry and reaching for the easiest thing), or the 'sweet part' by finding alternatives with reduced sugar. Loads of lovely sweet recipes out there online!

AllForIt

Mellor wrote: »

No because he is craving the taste. I'm not sure why you thin capitalising it would change that.
Last weekend I craved a burger (and I ha one). I simply wanted to eat one. It wasn't some chemical dependency.

There is a difference between desiring a taste and craving a taste. Cravings to me means one feels compelled to consume whatever and can't stop oneself despite one's rational efforts not to do so in the interest of their own health. The op is in this predicament because he want's to stop but can't figure out how.

I'll quote the OP

Trying to cut down on my sugar, but the cravings and not knowing what to do with my hands is killing me.

Why do you think the OP doesn't know what to do with his hands just because he can't experience a taste. That sounds like classic withdrawal symptoms to me.

Yes the smell of smokes, is linked in your brain to the chemical effects of nicotine.

Somebody might associated a certain aftershave with a deceased loved on and become sentimental when they smell it. It's simply mental connections, which has nothing to do with addiction.

Mental connections have everything in the world to do with addiction. You are making my point in that the mental connection to taste is directly linked to the substance addiction.

I'm well aware of the impact sugar has on obesity. That problem isn't dependent on it being addictive. People eat more and more because they enjoy it, and they lack the control. Eating is also a very temporary satisfaction. You eat something, it's nice, you go back and eat more.

So the reason ppl are obese is simply because 'they like the taste'. Why do you think ppl don't have control ? I put it to you the reason they don't have control is because they are physically addicted to sugar and they can't control it for that reason.

But a bowl of satly peanuts on a bar. They don't last long, keep topping them up and people will keep eating them. High fat, High salt, low sugar.

People might comment "these nuts are addictive, nyom nyom nyom". But they are taking about the taste, not an actual chemical dependency.

I doubt that anyone in a bar who ate a whole ramekin of peanuts would really continue the whole night eating another one and another one and another one. Rather they would be satisfied with one bowl and move one. You get the point don't you?

AllForIt wrote: »

Fat is not addictive. It is addictive when it is combined with starchy carbohydrates, in for example foodstuffs like pizza or burgers and that type of junk food.

In fact high fat diets do more to satisfy ppl's appetite than any other diets and prevent overeating. I stress, overeating is the major cause of obesity due to the addictive nature of sugar and starchy carbs.

No. Overeating is a major cause of obesity due to the fact that overeating results in excess energy intake. It's very easy to overeat on a low sugar diet if you eat the wrong foods.

One of the major causes of obesity is the popularity of high sugar content drinks. Need I say more.

Your conclusion is extremely weak. Nothing you've said backs up the stance you are taking. If anything it backs my point up. People aren't passionate about broccoli due to the taste. It's that simple.
People aren't passionate about raw potato, but crisps and chips are a different story. Why? because it's the taste that matters, not the chemical make up.

I'm passionate about broccoli and vegetables in general. All I have to do is put full fat butter or olive oil on it and when I feel full that's it. No going back for more and more and more, thoroughly love the taste, and don't crave the taste when I'm not hungry !

AllForIt

marialouise wrote: »

This one struck me the most as a "former addict". Like I said I could put away a few bars a day before, because they were highly palatable foods and I had no control, not because I was addicted to sugar.

As one example, I have eaten "diabetic" chocolate, made with artificial sweeteners, and at the time it hit the spot. I mean if it was really sugar that I was addicted to, wouldn't people just eat table sugar off a tea spoon? But no one does, because that's gross. It's the sweet taste of something which is appealing, not the glucose (/sucrose/fructose etc).
After my dinner I still "crave" something sweet, but I'm not addicted to sugar. I have some berries and greek yoghurt, or my home made treats which involve cacao powder and artificial sweetener. Not high in sugar, but still satisfying because it's sweet and I like that from time to time after my savoury meal.

Also, I can overeat anything (even broccoli!). It's not addiction, it's just I don't recognise very well when I've had enough. To overcome this I weigh out my food and cook in bulk, so if something is supposed to make two portions for today and tomorrow's dinner, it stops me overeating as I'll just wind up with less food tomorrow! But when I make a big pot of anything, I could overeat it, even when very low in sugar. So I do think that's part of the obesity crisis some of you are referring to - people having no control over food, and then the availability of rubbish food means they are overeating rubbish. I live alone and don't have any junk food in the house so it's not within easy reach, but I could still eat a large amount of savoury (low carbohydrate) food at home if I felt so inclined.

Mellor you made some really great posts here sorry I couldn't quote them all!

To anyone who thinks they're addicted to sugar, maybe you're just stuck very deep in a habit which needs changing. You either need to address the 'overeating' part by taking a look at what patterns are leading you to overeat (for me it was not eating a satisfying meal and then being hungry and reaching for the easiest thing), or the 'sweet part' by finding alternatives with reduced sugar. Loads of lovely sweet recipes out there online!

Your case sounds to me like a psychological issue rather than a simple addiction problem, which is what we are talking about here.

I don't think that the vast majority of ppl who are obese have psychological issues, rather they are addicted to sugar. Sugars that are hidden even in savory foods. Like pouring ketchup on burgers and chips. The sugar content in ketchup is huge. How many ppl know that.

marialouise

AllForIt wrote: »

Your case sounds to me like a psychological issue rather than a simple addiction problem, which is what we are talking about here.

I don't think that the vast majority of ppl who are obese have psychological issues, rather they are addicted to sugar. Sugars that are hidden even in savory foods. Like pouring ketchup on burgers and chips. The sugar content in ketchup is huge. How many ppl know that.

Addiction is a psychological issue. That's why cold turkey/rehab which only treats the addiction doesn't work, and why people need professional help for recovery, you have to treat the person as a whole.

Personally, I don't really have any issues with food, not more than the next person.I'm just saying I used to love chocolate, or as I put it at the time "a sweet tooth". It was just a bad habit of eating loads of rubbish even though I knew it was rubbish, I didn't know any other way. Now I do, so I eat better because I learned about nutrition and changed some habits, not because I overcame some psychological barrier. I was never obese, I was overweight and am a healthy weight now and still enjoy chocolate occaisonally like a normal person, just not 2 bars a day.

People also put mayonnaise all over their fries, there's no sugar in mayonnaise. People also overeat fries, and there's no sugar in fries. Actually the fat found in fried foods is arguably more damaging to our health than sugar but that's off topic. People overeat anything tasty. Cheese has no sugar, that's easy to overeat. Nuts were already used as an example. A burger has no sugar (even just without the bun it has no carbs). So actually a meal of a cheeseburger, fries, even with a huge serving of ketchup and mayonnaise is not high in sugar. It's high in calories which leads to weight gain (and eventually obesity) if the person consistently eats above their Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

I haven't read a whole lot about obesity so I don't feel entitled to get into a discussion on it, but if you're saying that the majority of obese people have no psychological issue with food, I think you might join me in reading up a bit more on the subject, that is an absurd claim in my opinion.

marialouise

AllForIt wrote: »

There is a difference between desiring a taste and craving a taste. Cravings to me means one feels compelled to consume whatever and can't stop oneself despite one's rational efforts not to do so in the interest of their own health. The op is in this predicament because he want's to stop but can't figure out how.

So the reason ppl are obese is simply because 'they like the taste'. Why do you think ppl don't have control ? I put it to you the reason they don't have control is because they are physically addicted to sugar food? and they can't control it for that reason.

I doubt that anyone in a bar who ate a whole ramekin of peanuts would really continue the whole night eating another one and another one and another one. Rather they would be satisfied with one bowl and move one. You get the point don't you?

One of the major causes of obesity is the popularity of high sugar content drinks. Need I say more.

I'm passionate about broccoli and vegetables in general. All I have to do is put full fat butter or olive oil on it and when I feel full that's it. No going back for more and more and more, thoroughly love the taste, and don't crave the taste when I'm not hungry !

Sorry I didn't realise you made two posts.
I have personally eaten a huge bag of nuts as a snack, before I understood anything about nutrition. I mean like 600cals worth, and I didn't feel particularly satisfied!
Sugary drinks are one factor, but they're up there with junk food in general, its wide availability and its lack of nutritional value. It's 140cals of something which won't fill you up at all, and leads to sugar spikes and crashes which messes with people's appetites.

Good for you that you feel full after eating. I rarely do. Only from planning several meals throughout the day so that I don't feel starving can I control my hunger levels. I go from very hungry - somewhat satisfied, and it's only occasionally that I feel "full", but I have learned the art of portion control and eating as nutritionally balanced as I can that I can eat to not feel hungry and not to gain weight. If I ate intuitively, I would be overweight I should think, as I just don't get that satisfied feeling you're talking about. This often comes up in obesity studies too about ghrelin/leptin and the roles that hormones play in obesity.

Look, if sugar was all that was behind obesity, we wouldn't have a problem. I'm not saying sugar isn't bad, I'm just saying I think your viewpoint is too simplified and based on your own view. I'm not exactly countering your argument with studies or anything, I'm just showing you a different view.

None of our arguing is helpful to the OP. I've said all I had to say to the OP in terms of advice and am tired of this thread now so bowing out. There's been loads of great advice and I suggest a few people here could do with a bit more research on the topic, myself included.

Good luck OP!

Mellor

AllForIt wrote: »

There is a difference between desiring a taste and craving a taste.

There isn't. Craving by definition means a strong desiring for something.
There isn't even an absolute scale between them. A strong desire could be greater in magnitude than a mild craving. They are essentially synonymous.
Example: Hot sunny day, out in a beer garden, I'm usually a beer drinker, but out of the blue I have a craving cider. Pretty standard situation.

That does not mean the weather turned me into an alcoholic with a cider addiction. (nor to a sugar content for that matter).

Cravings to me means one feels compelled to consume whatever and can't stop oneself despite one's rational efforts not to do so in the interest of their own health. The op is in this predicament because he want's to stop but can't figure out how.

I'm not denying that the cravings or desires can be so string that they are essentially uncontrollable at that given moment. But that doesn't not make it an addiction.
That's my point. The idea of sugar as an addiction presented in articles, online, and also as you present it is not based on the actual definitions of a physical addiction.
I funny understand the OP predicament. I'm not disregarding how difficult it its. An uncontrollable craving/desire is extremely hard to deal with, but that doesn't make it addiction.
Redefining cravings ad addiction to suit an agenda does not help these people. It hinders them in my opinion.

Why do you think the OP doesn't know what to do with his hands just because he can't experience a taste. That sounds like classic withdrawal symptoms to me.

Actual addiction withdrawl is significantly more intense that not knowing what to do with your hands.

Mental connections have everything in the world to do with addiction. You are making my point in that the mental connection to taste is directly linked to the substance addiction.

It your case its link to a former addiction. But the coincidence is coincidental there.
See my example above. A particular aftershave reminds me on my grandfather when ever I smell it. I like the smell for that reason. There is no addiction involved in that example.
It's respondent conditioning, aka Pavlovian conditioning. It's based on neural stimulus.

So the reason ppl are obese is simply because 'they like the taste'. Why do you think ppl don't have control ? I put it to you the reason they don't have control is because they are physically addicted to sugar and they can't control it for that reason.

Please don't twist my words to trivialise obesity.
There a whole host of reasons why obesity is an issue. Mostly involving diet. Sugar is a factor, as are fast foods, high calorie foods, highly palatable junk foods etc.
Sugar doesn't need to be an addiction to contribute to obesity.

I doubt that anyone in a bar who ate a whole ramekin of peanuts would really continue the whole night eating another one and another one and another one. Rather they would be satisfied with one bowl and move one. You get the point don't you?

Well, you are completely wrong there.
Salty nuts/snacks in a bar are like crack, there's a reason they give them out for free in many bars (inc my local).
Crisps, popcorn, pretzels, people pick and pick and pick. No sugar involved.

One of the major causes of obesity is the popularity of high sugar content drinks. Need I say more.

Well yes you probably should say more. As that sentence has nothing to do with addiction.
Highly processed, high calorie, fast food is also a major cause. Addiction? No. Just very palatable, high calorie, low satiety food.

I'm passionate about broccoli and vegetables in general. All I have to do is put full fat butter or olive oil on it and when I feel full that's it. No going back for more and more and more, thoroughly love the taste, and don't crave the taste when I'm not hungry !

And there's another reason why it's not addiction. Broccoli makes you feel full. It's high satiety per unit energy. You physically can't eat large quantities, even if you wanted to. Try to eat 1000cals of broccolli, I doubt you will. (It's 3kg btw).
But the same energy worth of sugar is a much smaller qualtity. It's physically easier to eat - even if the person never eats sugar (so the "addicted to sugar" explanation doesn't work).

Bredabe

Having scanned the replies here I would just like to respond to points to avoid any arguments re my OP.
I work with addicts and know what addiction looks like, there are histories of addiction in my family, I have seen adiction cllrs who say I tick most of the boxes for substances addiction. So for me I dont used the word addiction frivolously.

Now and the reason I asked here, what I need are constructive strategies for killing sugar craving(a substance that was mainlined into me from the time I was hours old) before I get overwhelmed/compulsed, I used to use slightly sweetened lemon water, but my oh so sensitive tum has rebelled in a BIG BIG way against that, same issues with fruit annoyingly. Ex smokers of my acquaintance tell me that the hands thing passes over time.

Mellor

Bredabe wrote: »

Now and the reason I asked here, what I need are constructive strategies for killing sugar craving(a substance that was mainlined into me from the time I was hours old) before I get overwhelmed/compulsed, I used to use slightly sweetened lemon water, but my oh so sensitive tum has rebelled in a BIG BIG way against that, same issues with fruit annoyingly. Ex smokers of my acquaintance tell me that the hands thing passes over time.

Eating higher protein, low sugar, satiating meals.
Don't buy sugary snacks when shopping. It's a lot easier to cave when they are in the snack cupboard.


I asked above;

It is a weight loss/control thing.
Or a general health thing?

The approach is slightly different for each. How is your weight?

Bredabe

Mellor wrote: »

Eating higher protein, low sugar, satiating meals.
I asked above;

The approach is slightLunch different for each. How is your weight?

The dietitian recommended this as well, but I still have the cravings, my main reason for wanting to kick the habit is that its too expensive and I have other demands on my money(not that that's factors in at pop)

I dont metabolize protein as well as I should, but dr's dont believe me when I tell them this, as the testing was done in the UK.

Hormonal issues impact on my weight, so its under control but could be better.

johnnyskeleton

AllForIt wrote: »

Sugar is highly addictive and it is the the primary cause of obesity in western culture.

So nothing to do with our mainly sedentary lifestyle coupled with abundant cheap food?

I don't personally need to see a scientific paper on this to prove what is completely obvious to anyone who has a basic understanding of the composition of food that causes people in our society eat and drink more than they should.

Well without science it is just your opinion. If it seems obvious to you, fair enough. But it's not exactly compelling to others

Sugar and to a lesser extent starchy carbohydrates have the same effect, that is, once you eat them, you want more, which leads to OVEREATING, the major reason ppl can't keep their calorific intake under control. Which makes a mockery of all this ridiculous calorie counting strategy imo.

Fat is not addictive. It is addictive when it is combined with starchy carbohydrates, in for example foodstuffs like pizza or burgers and that type of junk food.

I'd agree with the latter part, certainly. Studies on rats suggest that it is neither fat nor sugar alone, but the combination of them that causes overeating:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/addicted-to-fat-eating/

In fact high fat diets do more to satisfy ppl's appetite than any other diets and prevent overeating.

Not everyone. I find claims made by the atkins people that you can eat an unlimited amount of fatty meat so long as you don't eat any carbs and lose weight or not gain weight to be highly suspicious. Some people find that protein and fat give them a feeling of satiety that an equivalent amount of carbohydrates does not give them, but I do not and if I ate all the fat I wanted I would put on a massive amount of weight.

I stress, overeating is the major cause of obesity due to the addictive nature of sugar and starchy carbs.

Again, not always. For some people, they will overeat sugar and carbs. But for others, overeating is a more continuous problem. Likewise, many people can eat lots of carbs and not be obese, if they have a balanced diet and take regular exercise. Most athletes, i.e. the fittest people on the planet, consume large amounts of starchy carbs.

So in conclusion I ask you why isn't anyone passionate about the taste of steamed broccoli with noting on it ? Do you still really think it's all about a matter of a 'taste' preference and nothing to do with the addictive consequence of eating sugar?

Some people are, like Ottolengi. But you are trying to pick the most boring of food. Most meat eaters would be very passionate about the types of meat they eat - dry aged striploin steak, braised beef cheek, pork loin, lobster, venison etc etc are all highly desirable foods that many people are very passionate about.

On the other hand, some people aren't really pushed about sugar. For myself, I have no real interest in sugar if I am eating an otherwise filling diet i.e. I'm not running a prolonged calorie deficit. The only time I crave sugar is if I've been severely undereating for a few days or if I'm hungover. The craving is not based on addiction, but based on the fact that my body requires energy and has associated sweet foods with energy because of the high levels of carbohydrate.

ford2600

Bredabe wrote: »

The dietitian recommended this as well, but I still have the cravings, my main reason for wanting to kick the habit is that its too expensive and I have other demands on my money(not that that's factors in at .

Other than food environment I'd be inclined to do two things.

1. Keep a journal and record when you get the craving. Figure out the cues and pattern. See if you can do something with thatinformation.
2. How is your sleep? Sleep deprivation correlates pretty strongly with sugar craving. If it's a problem it's an easy fix

Bredabe

ford2600 wrote: »

Other than food environment I'd be inclined to do two things.

1. Keep a journal and record when you get the craving. Figure out the cues and pattern. See if you can do something with thatinformation.
2. How is your sleep? Sleep deprivation correlates pretty strongly with sugar craving. If it's a problem it's an easy fix

I did the diary with the dietitian, I know what the triggers are but its not under my control to deal with those triggers. The sugar cravings were just as bad when i had control of my environment.

I sleep ok, but its also impacted by hormones and no one knows any fix for it, even on the day's I can walk miles there is no guarantee of a full nights sleep.

AllForIt

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So nothing to do with our mainly sedentary lifestyle coupled with abundant cheap food?.

No. Nothing to do with sedentary lifestyles. It's all to do with what you stuff in your face. I don't believe it's necessary to exercise to be lean. Detrimental to your cardiovascular system yes, but not your weigh.

I believe that if one did not eat starchy addictive carbs then they wouldn't eat more than they naturally would.

I know of many ppl who never exercise in their lives other than walk, who are not overweight.

Well without science it is just your opinion. If it seems obvious to you, fair enough. But it's not exactly compelling to others

Neither are Mellors arguments compelling to me.

I'd agree with the latter part, certainly. Studies on rats suggest that it is neither fat nor sugar alone, but the combination of them that causes overeating:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/addicted-to-fat-eating/

I agree. Like when fat is combined with starchy carbs like pizza and burgers. But it is the starchy carbs that are at fault, not the fat.

Not everyone. I find claims made by the atkins people that you can eat an unlimited amount of fatty meat so long as you don't eat any carbs and lose weight or not gain weight to be highly suspicious.

That's because you don't fully understand it. Your have read it in theory, but you don't understand it in practice.

The atkins 'people' don't say you can eat an unlimited amount of fat and not gain weight. That's absurd. You have totally mis-understood what they say. Rather they mean you can eat to the point that your satiated and that that point will arrive way sooner than if you ate a bowl of pasta. Who doesn't eat a bowl of pasta and go back to the pot for another portion. This does not happen if one eats a high fat meal.

Some people find that protein and fat give them a feeling of satiety that an equivalent amount of carbohydrates does not give them, but I do not and if I ate all the fat I wanted I would put on a massive amount of weight.

Again your lack of experience of ever trying a high fat diet is telling here.

Your fear is that if you ate a high fat diet that you would munch away in the same way that you eat you carbs. You won't. Because fat is not addictive and you will feel satiated far quicker meaning you will eat much smaller portions.

Again, not always. For some people, they will overeat sugar and carbs. But for others, overeating is a more continuous problem. Likewise, many people can eat lots of carbs and not be obese, if they have a balanced diet and take regular exercise. Most athletes, i.e. the fittest people on the planet, consume large amounts of starchy carbs.

Most ppl aren't athletes. They have special requirements. Your athletes are not fit as a directly result of eating a high carb diet.

Some people are, like Ottolengi. But you are trying to pick the most boring of food. Most meat eaters would be very passionate about the types of meat they eat - dry aged striploin steak, braised beef cheek, pork loin, lobster, venison etc etc are all highly desirable foods that many people are very passionate about.

Yes some ppl are 'overeaters', nothing to do with taste or addiction. That's a purely psychological issue.

You completely missed my point about the broccoli with butter, as did Mellor. I think broccoli with butter is extremely tasty, just like sweet stuff is, but I'd never feel addicted to it in the same way I'd crave anything sweet. Think about that.

On the other hand, some people aren't really pushed about sugar. For myself, I have no real interest in sugar if I am eating an otherwise filling diet i.e. I'm not running a prolonged calorie deficit. The only time I crave sugar is if I've been severely undereating for a few days or if I'm hungover. The craving is not based on addiction, but based on the fact that my body requires energy and has associated sweet foods with energy because of the high levels of carbohydrate.

You are right. Some ppl are not pushed about sugar. But there are a lot of ppl who are pushed about starchy carbs, and some who are pushed about starchy carbs AND sugary drinks/food. For me, the two go hand in hand.

Mellor

AllForIt wrote: »

No. Nothing to do with sedentary lifestyles. It's all to do with what you stuff in your face. I don't believe it's necessary to exercise to be lean. Detrimental to your cardiovascular system yes, but not your weigh.

Exercise is not necessary, by any means.
But with average activity decreasing due to lifestyle and no change to intake, the result is an increase in weight/body fat levels.

Neither are Mellors arguments compelling to me.

What exactly do you think my argument is?

For the record imo, weight gain/obesity by consuming excess energy. The reason for over consumption is complex and varied.

I agree. Like when fat is combined with starchy carbs like pizza and burgers. But it is the starchy carbs that are at fault, not the fat.

Why does energy from carbs matter more than energy from fat in a pizza?
If I eat a large burger, does fat or carbs contribute more energy the excess?

Because fat is not addictive and you will feel satiated far quicker meaning you will eat much smaller portions.

If somebody decided to eat only crispy pork belly, ribs or fried chicken wings . How do think their energy intake would look like? All high fat, highly satiating food. But they'd have over consumer energy before they realised it.

But there are a lot of ppl who are pushed about starchy carbs, and some who are pushed about starchy carbs AND sugary drinks/food.

And some who love processed high fat foods, or fatty/starchy/salty foods - no sugar involved.

ford2600

Here is a recent study funded by Taubes organisation, Nusi and which used pretty heavy weight researchers.

I eat hflc myself but a position that obesity is just caused by sugar/starchy carbs is nonsense.


http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract

For most obese people in long term obesity isn't reversible.

Sedentary lifestyle with excessive sitting can have a pretty profound effect on metabolic health markers and can have a significant effect on weight gain

Mellor

ford2600 wrote: »

I eat hflc myself but a position that obesity is just caused by sugar/starchy carbs is nonsense.

But but but...your lack of experience with ever trying high fat diet was telling...

AllForIt

Mellor wrote: »

But but but...your lack of experience with ever trying high fat diet was telling...

But but but, that comment I made was to johnnyskeleton not ford2600.

AllForIt

ford2600 wrote: »

Here is a recent study funded by Taubes organisation, Nusi and which used pretty heavy weight researchers.

I eat hflc myself but a position that obesity is just caused by sugar/starchy carbs is nonsense.


http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract

For most obese people in long term obesity isn't reversible.

Sedentary lifestyle with excessive sitting can have a pretty profound effect on metabolic health markers and can have a significant effect on weight gain

Okay so your point doesn't have much to do with whether sugar or starchy carbs are physically addictive, as I say they are.

But I will say that your point about sedentary lifestyles imo has been completely overemphasized because I believe that the junk food conglomerates have cynically furthered that idea in the public psyche in an attempt to suggest that it is their lack of physical activity that is causing their obesity rather than the crap they eat.

I believe, and yes this is my personal opinion, that sugar and starchy carbs are highly addictive , highly addictive in terms on a scale of what is addictive with regard to food, not on a scale of class A drugs.

AllForIt

Bredabe wrote: »

Having scanned the replies here I would just like to respond to points to avoid any arguments re my OP.
I work with addicts and know what addiction looks like, there are histories of addiction in my family, I have seen adiction cllrs who say I tick most of the boxes for substances addiction. So for me I dont used the word addiction frivolously.

Now and the reason I asked here, what I need are constructive strategies for killing sugar craving(a substance that was mainlined into me from the time I was hours old) before I get overwhelmed/compulsed, I used to use slightly sweetened lemon water, but my oh so sensitive tum has rebelled in a BIG BIG way against that, same issues with fruit annoyingly. Ex smokers of my acquaintance tell me that the hands thing passes over time.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103658669&postcount=11

Bredabe wrote: »

I did the diary with the dietitian, I know what the triggers are but its not under my control to deal with those triggers. The sugar cravings were just as bad when i had control of my environment.

I sleep ok, but its also impacted by hormones and no one knows any fix for it, even on the day's I can walk miles there is no guarantee of a full nights sleep.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103658669&postcount=11

Your say that you know what addiction looks like but you don't seem to recognize it in yourself.

Bredabe

AllForIt wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103658669&postcount=11




http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103658669&postcount=11

Your say that you know what addiction looks like but you don't seem to recognize it in yourself.

I do,which is why I said Im addicted, its other ppl who claimed otherwise.

AllForIt

Bredabe wrote: »

I do,which is why I said Im addicted, its other ppl who claimed otherwise.

My apologies. My point was so pugnaciously attacked by you know who that I felt no one on this thread would even consider for a second that I have a valid point.

So, why don't you take my advice and give up the sugar completely. I can tell you from personal experience that if you give up sugar altogether you won't miss it. Your memory of a 'nice taste' will continue to exist in your mind and diminish but it will always just be a memory, just that, and not a craving that one can't control.

The problem with being addicted to sugar and giving it up is the irrational notion that one won't be able to experience a nice taste. Again from personal experience this is an unfounded fear, and in fact you will find savory foods to be more tasty than ever before because all that sugary food really screws up your taste buds and your sense of taste.

So, good luck, let us know how it goes.

Bredabe

AllForIt wrote: »

My apologies. My point was so pugnaciously attacked by you know who that I felt no one on this thread would even consider for a second that I have a valid point.

So, why don't you take my advice and give up the sugar completely. I can tell you from personal experience that if you give up sugar altogether you won't miss it. Your memory of a 'nice taste' will continue to exist in your mind and diminish but it will always just be a memory, just that, and not a craving that one can't control.

The problem with being addicted to sugar and giving it up is the irrational notion that one won't be able to experience a nice taste. Again from personal experience this is an unfounded fear, and in fact you will find savory foods to be more tasty than ever before because all that sugary food really screws up your taste buds and your sense of taste.


So, good luck, let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the good wishes. I've not been following the complete thread, so I dont know who the "you know who" you refer too is. I gave up when ppl starting rehashing the information I was given from the dietitian and others disputed that info, in reality that made me feel the tread had no relevance to me anymore.

The plan is to give up completely, well in as much as I have control over it, I dont have time to read every package for info(once I kick the junk sugar, less of a concern anyway), now as always, the crashing issue has been the cravings and empty hands sensation. Im told the hands thing resolves itself in a few days, it's something that cuts the cravings I really need, as I eat fruit and veg as a matter of course, that doesn't cut the craving, neither does exercise, meditation, or low sugar options(tho those do help with the days when my brain feels it needs sugar to get going) my reliable sweetened citrus drink has started to give me more horrible side effects that its worth. I see you think its a fear of losing flavour that is the real issue, it never crossed my mind, but as im forced to eat fairly bland food anyway, that's unlikely I feel.

AllForIt

Bredabe wrote: »

The plan is to give up completely, well in as much as I have control over it, I dont have time to read every package for info(once I kick the junk sugar, less of a concern anyway), now as always, the crashing issue has been the cravings and empty hands sensation.

Well maybe you don't have time to read every package label but maybe the problem is you are eating too many foods that have labels on them at all. Veg, meat, fruit don't have nutritional labels on them. So many sauces are full of sugar, BBQ sauces, ketchup etc. I personally limit my sauces to dijon mustard and full fat mayo. No sugar in them at all.

Im told the hands thing resolves itself in a few days, it's something that cuts the cravings I really need, as I eat fruit and veg as a matter of course, that doesn't cut the craving, neither does exercise, meditation, or low sugar options(tho those do help with the days when my brain feels it needs sugar to get going) my reliable sweetened citrus drink has started to give me more horrible side effects that its worth.

The hands thing is no different from the problem an ex-smoker has. A smoker never smoked because they enjoyed using their hands to smoke.

Again, if you are to give sugar up completely then the only way you can do it is to actually give up it up completely, which means don't eat any fruit or consume any kind of artificial sweeteners ( which act as triggers for your addiction). Fruit has a very high percentage of sugar and no one needs to eat fruit to be healthy as long as your eating your veg. If you didn't have a sugar addiction then eating fruit in moderation would be fine.

Bredabe

AllForIt wrote: »

Well maybe you don't have time to read every package label but maybe the problem is you are eating too many foods that have labels on them at all. Veg, meat, fruit don't have nutritional labels on them. So many sauces are full of sugar, BBQ sauces, ketchup etc. I personally limit my sauces to dijon mustard and full fat mayo. No sugar in them at all.



The hands thing is no different from the problem an ex-smoker has. A smoker never smoked because they enjoyed using their hands to smoke.

Again, if you are to give sugar up completely then the only way you can do it is to actually give up it up completely, which means don't eat any fruit or consume any kind of artificial sweeteners ( which act as triggers for your addiction). Fruit has a very high percentage of sugar and no one needs to eat fruit to be healthy as long as your eating your veg. If you didn't have a sugar addiction then eating fruit in moderation would be fine.

Porridge, brown rice, spelt bread, grains, eggs, all have packaging, so cant dismiss those foods altogether, I dont digest proteins well, so I dont read meat labels.

What you say about no fruit directly contradicts when my dietitian says, granted her idea was to replace processed sugar with fruit/veg sugars, but I think its dangerous to say anyone should be fruit free, even my fam who are allergic to it have a fruit substitute in their diet.

bee06

Bredabe wrote: »

Porridge, brown rice, spelt bread, grains, eggs, all have packaging, so cant dismiss those foods altogether, I dont digest proteins well, so I dont read meat labels.

What you say about no fruit directly contradicts when my dietitian says, granted her idea was to replace processed sugar with fruit/veg sugars, but I think its dangerous to say anyone should be fruit free, even my fam who are allergic to it have a fruit substitute in their diet.

If you want to give up sugar properly you do need to read labels. Take porridge as an example, Flahavan's progress oatlets (40g) have 0.4g of sugar if made with water, Flahavan's Quick Oats Original Portable Porridge Pot (44g) have 7.3g. That's a huge difference for a product that a lot of people would think is the same.

dastardly00

bee06 wrote: »

If you want to give up sugar properly you do need to read labels. Take porridge as an example, Flahavan's progress oatlets (40g) have 0.4g of sugar if made with water, Flahavan's Quick Oats Original Portable Porridge Pot (44g) have 7.3g. That's a huge difference for a product that a lot of people would think is the same.

I've never used any of those Flahavan's porridge pots or similar products before, but it's fairly ridiculous/scandalous (I'm outraged Joe :pac:) that they are adding in 7g of sugar when the 'normal' progress oatlets do not have added sugar.

Zillah

dastardly00 wrote: »

I've never used any of those Flahavan's porridge pots or similar products before, but it's fairly ridiculous/scandalous (I'm outraged Joe :pac:) that they are adding in 7g of sugar when the 'normal' progress oatlets do not have added sugar.

That's pretty shocking alright.