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London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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Comments

  • #1172
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Just regarding the bold point.

    Terrorism is classed in the dictionary as:
    "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

    Now, tell me. When the US and Western forces bomb the bejaysis out of the Middle East, if its not terrorism for the people that live there, what is it?

    Because what the west has done to the middle east is far far far worse than any atrocity they have performed over here.

    That sounds like a justification of the attacks. As I've said before I never see you guys opposing American policy in the ME during the actual bombings.

    It's also clear that you don't fully know the history. The bombings in syria are mostly anti regime and the regime is anti isis.


  • #1173
    Bushmanpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Bushmanpm


    Jimmy_Russell wrote:
    Once again innocent muslims will bear the brunt of this, they will be met with suspicion ad scrutiny now, in many ways Islam is the biggest victim of all this. We cant dwell on the past we need to move on already europe needs to learn to live with these unfortunate incidents and put these unfortunate events behind us otherwise we are playing into the hands of nazi’s like trump and farage

    Islam is the biggest victim?
    Unfortunate incidents and events?
    Nazis like Trump and Farage?
    Innocent civilians all across Europe lie slaughtered and you think THAT???
    Give yourself a pat on the head. With an anvil.


  • #1174
    crashadder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭crashadder


    Athiests ain't the problem, so, no. I'd be more concerned for you in Turkey where that fact is increasingly something you don't want to mention. But the reality is that Muslim immigration is a problem and it's one that could ultimately impact on you because doors are going to start closing when people decide the risks aren't worth the rewards of permitting immigration from certain parts of the world.
    I am an expat. I would simply go work somewhere else if the doors are closed. But i dont think thats happening any time soon. US closed no doors after 9/11. On the contrary they are making deals with Saudis who they were blaming for the attacks. This is globalisation. You need customers. Otherwise you end up having bigger problems than immigration trust me.


  • #1175
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I don't think people who are concerned about extremism are islamophobes.

    Most people are concerned about extremism. I was thinking of heading to London Bridge last night for a wander. I'm pretty glad I didn't now. Best we can do IMO is to trust the security services who seem to be very good at their job.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1176
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,762 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    That sounds like a justification of the attacks. As I've said before I never see you guys opposing American policy in the ME during the actual bombings.

    It's also clear that you don't fully know the history. The bombings in syria are mostly anti regime and the regime is anti isis.

    "You guys" who is that?
    And there was an incredible amount of protest during the war, or did FOX not show them?


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  • #1177
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Only a matter of time until the working class people of britian rise up and form their own vigilante justice squads. And i would applaud them. The authorities seem to be clueless as does the politicians


  • #1178
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    "You guys" who is that?
    And there was an incredible amount of protest during the war, or did FOX not show them?

    What paper was it that said only an idiot would believe there wasn't WOMD in Iraq? The Washington posts whole editorial board pushed that war, and from what I seen all networks like the sheep they are praised the recent Syrian bombings.


  • #1179
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,053 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Good Speech by May "No more safe spaces" lets hope she follows through!


  • #1180
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    I don't think any right minded person would disagree with more control over immigration.

    However, even if you stopped all immigration, which is not going to happen but for the sake of argument let's say it did, you wouldn't stop these attacks.

    No one is saying "nothing can be done". Things can and are being done. But you can't stop every single attack and some of the suggestions on here to "get tough" would just marginalise and radicalise more people.

    See the thing about getting really tough on immigration is, even though it won't tackle all problems right now, it will give nations some control over what happens in the future.

    I agree, you can't stop every attack.
    However, the Muslims who are going to radicalize within our countries as a consequence of tougher immigration policies will simply be easier to spot and deal with. They are more than likely the ones who would have radicalized either way had they been in contact with "Ahmed who just came over from Syria".

    Say you have 30 000 people to contend with. Refuse entry to more. Píss off 300 to the point they radicalize. These are the guys you want to deal with right now.

    I'm comfortable enough saying this because I don't believe most Muslims are stupid enough to misunderstand the reasons for a tougher stance on immigration.
    I think most Muslims have families they want to protect too, and that they are intelligent enough to understand exactly what is going on here.

    The above discussions about píssíng off Muslims who remain in the country if tough measures are taken to protect from extremists, they all seem to have an underlining assumption that your ordinary Joe-Muslim will not be able to comprehend the situation.

    The Muslims I know irl are just as worried about terrorist attacks. They have not been spared by terrorists. They are in Europe for a reason.


  • #1181
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    ricero wrote:
    Only a matter of time until the working class people of britian rise up and form their own vigilante justice squads. And i would applaud them. The authorities seem to be clueless as does the politicians

    What could possibly go wrong?


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  • #1182
    Gbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    On a more practical note, I was thinking about ways to remove the threat of hijacked/stolen vehicles.

    Install anti-vehicle measures on footpaths around busy pedestrian areas - higher kerbs perhaps, or more active measures, like railings that catch tires like those spiked strips they put down at road blocks.
    Make vehicles over a certain size have dead-man switches, biometric ignitions, immobilisers and that kind of thing - make it so that only people registered to do so can use large vehicles (might've prevented the Nice attack?).
    Ban large vehicles from the City at night or at the weekend, perhaps with a permit system.

    Men with knives are still dangerous, but there's a pretty low limit on the damage they can cause.

    Maybe some kind of citizen armed resonse unit could be formed. Get 10,000, rigourously trained and psychologically vetted volunteers, give them biometric IDs and place caches of weapons around the city that only they can access and use.
    That's a bit of a mad one alright and I certainly don't think the cost or other issues with it (safety, putting a load of weapons in possible reach of people you don't want to get them) are justified when weighed against the minor threat that terrorism currently poses, but if things got significantly worse, we may need some form of decentralised, fast acting response to these attacks.

    Having said that, the Police were on top of things last night.

    The fact that these guys aren't getting guns is making this much less of an issue. If they start carrying assault rifles then that'll be an order of magnitude worse.


  • #1183
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Conservative wrote: »
    Why exactly do we have a "Muslim community" to begin with.

    I am saying it should and would happen if we had any sense. I would indeed include children born here to Irish mothers (citizenship should be revoked for being a moron regardless) or non nationals. Send the mother with them.

    No I am not talking about 10 year old kids? WTF? Anybody thought to be a supporter/sympathiser would be interned until it was proven otherwise. Those found guilty would be dumped at sea. See how many supporters we have then.

    If we rid ourselves of the poison that is Islam in all its forms ISIS are going to radicalise who exactly? SF/RA have a monopoly on the dip****s among us anyway.

    Lots. Not necessarily because they agree with the IRA's views, but rather because if you can be interned because your mate turned out to have IRA connections and risk "being dumped at sea" because sure, you've been in this internment camp for a couple of years, surrounded by equally angry, resentful people, blamed for something you were innocent of to begin with - do you see that person being released merely because what was known at the start is proven, however you go about supporting or dismissing a suspected thought-crime? But now they're confirmed to have been in close contact with IRA-supporting people, so unless they were pretty tough-minded and managed to stay out of it, they probably are now guilty! Abusable as all get out, that notion.

    You were the one who brought up interning their families and friends, why are you so surprised that the question of what happens to the children comes up? It was based on the flimsiest and most abusable of "evidence" (they're "thought" to have sympathies and because someone in general connection to them has IRA sympathies. I wonder would even -you- survive those conditions? Do you know for absolute certainty that no-one you've been friends with has ever had IRA leanings? Could you prove beyond shadow of a doubt that you never committed the thought-crimes you advocate against?)

    You stated yourself that children should be punished for the presumed sins of the parents - in your first post on it all, you commented that if you walk into a halal takeaway you'd find it staffed by non-Irish/non-British sorts and why do we keep such in the country? Deport them and their children as superfluous to requirements, regardless of whether the children are natural-born citizens of Ireland. Revoking citizenship because someone (from your phrasing, apparently a child is a moron for being born to a Muslim parent and should therefore have their citizenship revoked (??). If that's what you're getting at, freedom of religion my Irish arse.

    I mean, god, do you even realise what you're saying? What sort of tinpot dictatorship do you want anyway, where you can abuse the children of our own country because you object to the religion of either of their parents? How long do you think your cruel notions would last when the first image of a toddler is shown with "I am an orphan because my parents were murdered and dumped at sea by the State for presumed IRA connections." I like having a free country, thank you, with a lack of State-sponsored murder behind closed doors. If I wanted that ****e, I'd move to the Philippines!


  • #1184
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    listermint wrote: »
    And their neighbours anyone that the talked to.

    2nd cousin who sent them an Xmas card back in 08 lock an up


  • #1185
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    May said there was 5 major attacks foiled in the last 3 months along with the 3 successful ones. The foiled attacks had no connection.


  • #1186
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Gbear wrote: »
    On a more practical note, I was thinking about ways to remove the threat of hijacked/stolen vehicles.

    Install anti-vehicle measures on footpaths around busy pedestrian areas - higher kerbs perhaps, or more active measures, like railings that catch tires like those spiked strips they put down at road blocks.
    Make vehicles over a certain size have dead-man switches, biometric ignitions, immobilisers and that kind of thing - make it so that only people registered to do so can use large vehicles (might've prevented the Nice attack?).
    Ban large vehicles from the City at night or at the weekend, perhaps with a permit system.

    Men with knives are still dangerous, but there's a pretty low limit on the damage they can cause.

    Maybe some kind of citizen armed resonse unit could be formed. Get 10,000, rigourously trained and psychologically vetted volunteers, give them biometric IDs and place caches of weapons around the city that only they can access and use.
    That's a bit of a mad one alright and I certainly don't think the cost or other issues with it (safety, putting a load of weapons in possible reach of people you don't want to get them) are justified when weighed against the minor threat that terrorism currently poses, but if things got significantly worse, we may need some form of decentralised, fast acting response to these attacks.

    Having said that, the Police were on top of things last night.

    The fact that these guys aren't getting guns is making this much less of an issue. If they start carrying assault rifles then that'll be an order of magnitude worse.

    I tell you what........save money and time.

    Just arrest anybody who has had anything to do with islamic extremism and deport them with a 'shoot on sight' warning issued if they try to return. Then you will not cost everybody a fortune in the process.


  • #1187
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Most of the Muslim doctors in Ireland are from Pakistan so that wouldn't help us very much (and you're crazy if you think we can train nearly 3,000 additional doctors). Without them every hospital in Ireland would be in a state of emergency.

    I've no problem if people want to advocate for something closer to the Australian skills-based immigration system but it can't be done on a religious test basis.

    There's absolutely no factual reason to believe a Radical Islamic terror attack is inevitable in Ireland. We've had 0 so far. The UK is a prime enemy to ISIS and is a hop, skip and jump from here.

    The chances of us being targeted are not even worth a moment of worry.

    as if we cant be self sufficient in doctors and nursing staff etc
    :rolleyes:


  • #1188
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,053 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    2nd cousin who sent them an Xmas card back in 08 lock an up

    Glad you apologists can see the funny side! Tell that to the victims of last nights attack or the Manchester victims!


  • #1189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,896 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gbear wrote: »
    On a more practical note, I was thinking about ways to remove the threat of hijacked/stolen vehicles.

    Install anti-vehicle measures on footpaths around busy pedestrian areas - higher kerbs perhaps, or more active measures, like railings that catch tires like those spiked strips they put down at road blocks.
    Make vehicles over a certain size have dead-man switches, biometric ignitions, immobilisers and that kind of thing - make it so that only people registered to do so can use large vehicles (might've prevented the Nice attack?).
    Ban large vehicles from the City at night or at the weekend, perhaps with a permit system.

    Men with knives are still dangerous, but there's a pretty low limit on the damage they can cause.

    Maybe some kind of citizen armed resonse unit could be formed. Get 10,000, rigourously trained and psychologically vetted volunteers, give them biometric IDs and place caches of weapons around the city that only they can access and use.
    That's a bit of a mad one alright and I certainly don't think the cost or other issues with it (safety, putting a load of weapons in possible reach of people you don't want to get them) are justified when weighed against the minor threat that terrorism currently poses, but if things got significantly worse, we may need some form of decentralised, fast acting response to these attacks.

    Having said that, the Police were on top of things last night.

    The fact that these guys aren't getting guns is making this much less of an issue. If they start carrying assault rifles then that'll be an order of magnitude worse.
    Fortifying the country isn't a solution, at best it's only a reaction.

    What is needed it to root out the active members of the organisations that are promoting these attacks and taking them off the streets, or even better deporting them.


  • #1190
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    *tumbleweed

    Or maybe it's a beautiful sunny Sunday and I have been in the park with my 5 year old son feeding the ducks :rolleyes:

    I don't know what should be done but the whole "lock them/their families/friends away without trial" idea is ridiculous and I'm sure you would be the 1st to complain if governments started locking up Irish people for their (distant) ties to anyone remotely involved in the (dissident) republican movement.


  • #1191
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Fair dues to the Met police. 8 minutes after the first 999 call, the three guys are shot dead.


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  • #1192
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Gbear wrote: »
    .
    Get 10,000, rigourously trained and psychologically vetted volunteers, give them biometric IDs and place caches of weapons around the city that only they can access and use.

    Don't we already have a solution that's remarkably similar to this? - it's called the police service.


  • #1193
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Britain and Europe are just going to have to live with such horror attacks and not let them destroy society and peoples lives. There is no short term solution in open society, alas.


  • #1194
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Fair dues to the Met police. 8 minutes after the first 999 call, the three guys are shot dead.

    Aye, damned impressive work from them alright. I'd say that, thanks to them we're as safe as we can be.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1195
    sjb25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭sjb25


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Fair dues to the Met police. 8 minutes after the first 999 call, the three guys are shot dead.

    They did a great job in fairness


  • #1196
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Britain and Europe are just going to have to live with such horror attacks and not let them destroy society and peoples lives. There is no short term solution in open society, alas.

    Correct and unfortunately the root causes will not be addressed until it is in the selfish interests of those with the power to address them.


  • #1197
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    The idea of more bollards at the entrance to pedestrian ways, especially in "iconic" places, like London Bridge seems like a good one. Maybe the stuff about deadmans switches and the like in large lorries; not sure how it'd work since they presumably had keys, mind you. I suppose you could have some sort of GPS locking system (this may be well beyond what is currently possible, and god knows what would happen if it kicked in the wrong place) that would shut down the vehicle if it headed at speed into a pedestrianised area. The bit about the wrong place is that GPS systems have to be regularly updated for changes in the city lay-out, and if a lorry suddenly went dead on a busy road that is pedestrianised at some parts of the day, or was recently made a car-lane, etc, or just the GPS glitched out, it could cause accidents.


    Agreed with the others regarding the more wild idea about a citizen's militia - we have the police forces for that. Introducing weapons caches and 10,000 strong militias is a recipe for some John Rambo to lose his head.


  • #1198
    Conservative
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    Samaris wrote: »
    Conservative wrote: »
    Why exactly do we have a "Muslim community" to begin with.

    I am saying it should and would happen if we had any sense. I would indeed include children born here to Irish mothers (citizenship should be revoked for being a moron regardless) or non nationals. Send the mother with them.

    No I am not talking about 10 year old kids? WTF? Anybody thought to be a supporter/sympathiser would be interned until it was proven otherwise. Those found guilty would be dumped at sea. See how many supporters we have then.

    If we rid ourselves of the poison that is Islam in all its forms ISIS are going to radicalise who exactly? SF/RA have a monopoly on the dip****s among us anyway.

    Lots. Not necessarily because they agree with the IRA's views, but rather because if you can be interned because your mate turned out to have IRA connections and risk "being dumped at sea" because sure, you've been in this internment camp for a couple of years, surrounded by equally angry, resentful people, blamed for something you were innocent of to begin with - do you see that person being released merely because what was known at the start is proven, however you go about supporting or dismissing a suspected thought-crime? But now they're confirmed to have been in close contact with IRA-supporting people, so unless they were pretty tough-minded and managed to stay out of it, they probably are now guilty! Abusable as all get out, that notion.

    You were the one who brought up interning their families and friends, why are you so surprised that the question of what happens to the children comes up? It was based on the flimsiest and most abusable of "evidence" (they're "thought" to have sympathies and because someone in general connection to them has IRA sympathies. I wonder would even -you- survive those conditions? Do you know for absolute certainty that no-one you've been friends with has ever had IRA leanings? Could you prove beyond shadow of a doubt that you never committed the thought-crimes you advocate against?)

    You stated yourself that children should be punished for the presumed sins of the parents - in your first post on it all, you commented that if you walk into a halal takeaway you'd find it staffed by non-Irish/non-British sorts and why do we keep such in the country? Deport them and their children as superfluous to requirements, regardless of whether the children are natural-born citizens of Ireland. Revoking citizenship because someone (from your phrasing, apparently a child is a moron for being born to a Muslim parent and should therefore have their citizenship revoked (??). If that's what you're getting at, freedom of religion my Irish arse.

    I mean, god, do you even realise what you're saying? What sort of tinpot dictatorship do you want anyway, where you can abuse the children of our own country because you object to the religion of either of their parents? How long do you think your cruel notions would last when the first image of a toddler is shown with "I am an orphan because my parents were murdered and dumped at sea by the State for presumed IRA connections." I like having a free country, thank you, with a lack of State-sponsored murder behind closed doors. If I wanted that ****e, I'd move to the Philippines!

    Fair play. That's more a thoughtful and respectful response than I expected.

    I probably exaggerated my true opinion but I never suggested being "mates" with someone with put you in prison. I mean family, associates who are supporters and involved in similar activity.

    For the record I was referring to Irish woman who have borne children to Muslim fathers. They deserve all the misery they get. I also don't see what's so wrong about returning Muslims to the Muslim country of their origin.

    I'm an admirer of Duterte in the Philippines and his popularity speaks for itself. You wouldn't have a billion dollar drug cartel running the streets of Dublin if they were assassinated on sight.

    I think we would do with a bit more of that kind of justice.

    Mod: Banned


  • #1199
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Correct and unfortunately the root causes will not be addressed until it is in the selfish interests of those with the power to address them.

    I am not sure it is that easy to address the issues. There is a huge difference in the culture, religious belief driving these attacks, as well as the historical ideology.


  • #1200
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    So some say these fanatics carry out these atrocities because they hate the liberal Western way of life that we all enjoy and these people want to fight the criminals by curbing and restricting our freedoms and way of life. That sounds like capitulation to me.


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  • #1201
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Glad you apologists can see the funny side! Tell that to the victims of last nights attack or the Manchester victims!

    Show me one post where I have apologised for any terrorist act ever! I'm just pointingbout the utter stupidity of the locks them all up without trial and deport them.somewhere brigade that always show their faces in these threads. I live in the UK close to Manchester and know several people who were caught up in the attack (none injured) so claiming I'm making apologies for terrorist scum is highly offensive.


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