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Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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Comments

  • #2882
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Why do you believe his sister?
    It's a family of Islamic extremist sympathisers at best and full on participants at worst.

    Occams Razor , she suggested he was radicalised by seeing images of innocent children die in the ME

    or do you believe that western bullets and bombs inherently just strike " evil" people


  • #2883
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    No one knows for sure but going by what his sister says and going by using a bit of common sense, the bombing campaign in Middle Eastern countries has a big roll to play in it.

    As much chance that the vitriol streaming from ISIS teachings made him want to kill young confident 'unmodestly' dressed girls enjoying themselves at a concert than any middle eastern bombings, things like that are demonised by the people he pledged allegiance to


  • #2884
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    neverever1 wrote: »
    What's his sister guilty of?

    Nothing yet.
    Just wouldn't put much faith in her being truthful.

    Why do you believe his sister?


  • #2885
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    BoatMad wrote: »

    or do you believe that western bullets and bombs inherently just strike " evil" people

    Where did I say anything that would make you think that?

    Relax ta fcuk...


  • #2886
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    wakka12 wrote: »
    As much chance that the vitriol streaming from ISIS teachings made him want to kill young confident 'unmodestly' dressed girls enjoying themselves at a concert than any middle eastern bombings, things like that are demonised by the people he pledged allegiance to

    naw. most likely he saw evidence of the west killing of thousands of innocents in the ME and figured a little payback was in order

    not much more complex than that , I suspect, doesnt make it any less evil an act., but looking from his perspective.....


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  • #2887
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    As much chance that the vitriol streaming from ISIS teachings made him want to kill young confident 'unmodestly' dressed girls enjoying themselves at a concert than any middle eastern bombings, things like that are demonised by the people he pledged allegiance to

    Yeah I think the bombing campaign is far more likely. Even ignoring his sisters testimony, radicalising someone because of unjust violence and murder of their 'people' will influence someone to kill more so than not liking what teenagers wear.


  • #2888
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    BoatMad wrote: »
    naw. most likely he saw evidence of the west killing of thousands of innocents in the ME and figured a little payback was in order

    not much more complex than that , I suspect, doesnt make it any less evil an act., but looking from his perspective.....

    So nothing to do with Islam then?


  • #2889
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Where did I say anything that would make you think that?

    Relax ta fcuk...

    because you persistently peddle this
    Why do you believe his sister?
    It's a family of Islamic extremist sympathisers at best and full on participants at worst.

    which is typical of a simplistic view of the issues and one that absolves the West of any moral issues

    The reality is entirely different


  • #2890
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    What's his sister guilty of?

    You don't think theres a chance she could be trying to save her brothers dignity?


  • #2891
    Exeggcute
    Closed Accounts Posts: 402 ✭✭Exeggcute


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Wiping out ISIS in effect means wiping out large sections of the Sunni population, along with SA, and most of Iran

    Why Iran? Iran is at war with ISIS and have all but driven them out of Iraq. They are now giving them a good kicking in Syria.

    Iranians are Shia, not Sunni. If ISIS launch an attack inside Iran, they will be making one hell of a mistake because the Iranians will stop at nothing to defeat them.

    Iran, Russia and Syria are all fighting ISIS and yet there is ample evidence that Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the U.S. have all aided and abetted ISIS through various means.

    Only last week a Syrian army convoy en route to take on ISIS was bombed by the U.S.

    Serious questions need to be asked regarding the relationship between Saudi Arabia, the U.S. and Turkey and ISIS

    Frankly it stinks.


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  • #2892
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Nothing yet.
    Just wouldn't put much faith in her being truthful.

    Why do you believe his sister?

    Because she'd know more about him than you or I?


  • #2893
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    BoatMad wrote: »
    because you persistently peddle this

    Persistent is once?
    Gtfo.


  • #2894
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,693 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    neverever1 wrote: »
    I hear Corbyn is going to talk sense tomorrow and say that Britain's past actions is partly responsible for attacks like Manchester. Of course the average Brit won't like that but it's the truth!

    Well there is a difference between completely responsible and partly responsible, as you say.

    The best I could agree with is that the UK's foreign policy has given extremist Muslims living in the UK an excuse to carry out atrocities which are delivered at a time when intervention in Muslim counties has occurred.

    I don't believe for a second that the perpetrators of the Manchester attack or Paris attacks carried them out due to other Muslims being killed in foreign lands, rather because of their own deep discomfort of not having their Islamic views being respected in western countries.

    It was interesting seeing that video today of the Mancs bommer casually emptying his bins. Doesn't look like he's mentally deranged rather looks like someone who has a deep considered hatred for western culture.


  • #2895
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Yeah I think the bombing campaign is far more likely. Even ignoring his sisters testimony, radicalising someone because of unjust violence and murder of their 'people' will influence someone to kill more so than not liking what teenagers wear.

    Well I disagree. ISIS are a pretty ****ed up group, and attract people not of the sounded mind. I think you're dignifying an animal


  • #2896
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Because she'd know more about him than you or I?

    Also more biased than you or I


  • #2897
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    wakka12 wrote: »
    You don't think theres a chance she could be trying to save her brothers dignity?

    NO the Wests narrative

    (a) Hate filled insane teerrorist

    or

    (b) Average Joe radicalised by West horrific treatment of ME

    (a) allows us, the west, to go to bed at night, safe that we remain virtuous and we must seek to protect ourselves from " madmen', i.e. any retaliation is acceptable

    (b) induces self doubt and makes us worry that we might have a hand in the problem, not a nice feeling

    (a) it is then , cause thats MUCH easier to live with


  • #2898
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    You don't think theres a chance she could be trying to save her brothers dignity?

    He just killed 22 people, how will telling the reasons for it save anything?


  • #2899
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    BoatMad wrote: »
    naw. most likely he saw evidence of the west killing of thousands of innocents in the ME and figured a little payback was in order

    not much more complex than that , I suspect, doesnt make it any less evil an act., but looking from his perspective.....

    The way you're speaking about this would make me think it most certainly does make it less of an evil act in your mind.


  • #2900
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    He just killed 22 people, how will telling the reasons for it save anything?

    He will at least be seen as some kind of a dark hero to some middle eastern people that way. that is why


  • #2901
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,006 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    No doubt those who claim to know better will correct me, but my understanding was that the British are currently taking part in operations to defeat Daesh in the Middle East. You know the group that are known for committing genocide, embracing enslavement, destroying ancient monuments and basically just carrying out general evil in the hope of creating a Caliphate.

    Anyway there are newspaper reports tonight that police in Manchester have found chemicals and bomb making equipment in one of the residences used by Monday's bomber. The bad news is that what they have found has led to conclude that there is a chance he may have built two or three bombs and the whereabouts of those hitherto unused devices is unknown.


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  • #2902
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well I disagree. ISIS are a pretty ****ed up group, and attract people not of the sounded mind. I think you're dignifying an animal

    you need to read a series of histories to learn where ISIS came from , who supports it , and why ordinary Sunnis supported its rise in droves

    to paint it as unhinged is merely a method of denying the truth of our ( the wests) hand in the creation of IS


  • #2903
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    You know the group that are known for committing genocide, embracing enslavement, destroying ancient monuments and basically just carrying out general evil in the hope of creating a Caliphate.

    You could have said the same thing about the establishment of the British empire :D


  • #2904
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    BoatMad wrote: »
    you need to read a series of histories to learn where ISIS came from , who supports it , and why ordinary Sunnis supported its rise in droves

    to paint it as unhinged is merely a method of denying the truth of our ( the wests) hand in the creation of IS

    ISIS are demented lunatics who joined together to carry out unspeakable acts and I fully believe that the alleged political motivations are largely a cover for this. Not many normal people want to blow up people or decapitate gays no matter how mad they are at western people. It is populated entirely by psychopaths


  • #2905
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    wakka12 wrote: »
    The way you're speaking about this would make me think it most certainly does make it less of an evil act in your mind.

    Even justified ffs.


  • #2906
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well I disagree. ISIS are a pretty ****ed up group, and attract people not of the sounded mind. I think you're dignifying an animal

    Maybe it's easier to believe that these mad men just come out of nowhere or it's just some mad book that's making them do it but the truth lies somewhere else.


  • #2907
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Also more biased than you or I

    Biased? How would the reason she gave make a difference? Why would she lie?


  • #2908
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    wakka12 wrote: »
    ISIS are demented lunatics who joined together to carry out unspeakable acts and I fully believe that the alleged political motivations are largely a cover for this. Not many normal people want to blow up people or decapitate gays no matter how mad they are at western people. It is populated entirely by psychopaths

    sadly , you obviously have made no attempt to actually read up on its history and its leaders, There are several good books by leading western journalists that will seek to educate you

    The demonisation of terror campaigns is of course always undertaken in preference to actually trying to understand the problems and come up with solutions

    to paraphrase Trump " who knew solving the middle east would be so hard "


  • #2909
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    He will at least be seen as some kind of a dark hero to some middle eastern people that way. that is why

    Why? Do you not think they all believe the same thing?


  • #2910
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Even justified ffs.

    ah, the decent into the weakness begins

    The " you're with us or against us " argument

    None justifies what happens , some of us however are trying to understand the reason why it happened and seek to understand how we might fix the problem so these types of things dont happen again

    its called "thinking "


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  • #2911
    Nabber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    Unfortunately for USA and U.K., you are screwed if you do and screwed if you don't.

    Don't interfere with ME? So let them nuke themselves? Use chemical warfare? Annex each other? Geneocide?
    At which point do you step in? Never?

    The issue I see is that Europe and its laws, its morals and society is based on Christian values.
    People now are trying to apply their values on a people who don't agree with your values.

    Unfortunately, as Europe has seen time and again, we are heading towards a movement that ultimately pitches a 'them vs us' mentality.

    We as a people are no more enlightened the we were 2000 years ago. A decent orator could head any White western county.

    Ultimately it was a Russian leader who brought Islam to a halt and forced the first peace treaty of a jihadist army. The fear now is it will be Russia once again,who knows where that goes.


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