Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

Jayop · 23-05-2017 02:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

that depends really on the poster.

I tend to work on the basis that if it has feathers, swims, quacks and waddles, then it is a duck.

Whatever basis you're working on then is idiotic because that's not what anyone has said.

Somedude9 · 23-05-2017 02:08PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

So what happens if an innocent person is added to it?

Innocent my ****

Shurimgreat · 23-05-2017 02:09PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

Victim blaming? Get out. I'm talking about the governments advocating a foreign policy that fuels this hatred and arms these nutters and their supporters.

It's called Blowback. The CIA coined the term after they overthrew a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed the Shah whose brutal regime gave rise to the even more brutal Islamic Revolution in 1979.

What we are seeing today across Europe is the very same thing.

much of western interference in the middle east in the last 40 years has been related to securing stable oil deliveries from that region. Its real politik. If the ME had no oil, I don't think we'd be too bothered if they annihilated each other.

Its all well and good preaching non interference in the ME, but are you willing to give up your oil based lifestyle? Western economies would ground to a complete halt like they did during the mid 1970s.

In the real world we are dependent on a secure source of oil from the likes of Saudi Arabia and bad and all as these regimes are they are some improvement on ISIS.

SkepticQuark · 23-05-2017 02:09PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Was this man innocent? They dont add you to it for a prank.

Just like how death row has never had innocent people added to it....right???

munsterlegend · 23-05-2017 02:10PM

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm surprised at all the people in this thread calling for internment without trial, etc. The Irish out of all people should be against that sort of thing. Maybe ye should all watch In the Name of the Father.

Yeah and also it actually is counter productive.IRA membership went up as a result of such policies. If you start persecuting one community you turn moderate people to aggression. Intelligence is the only way to stop certain attacks and most are but unfortunately someone slips through the net.

As someone said earlier the people who carry out these atrocities need to be stopped at an earlier stage in life.

Jayop · 23-05-2017 02:10PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Liberal lefties would be outraged at that and it would become their latest cause to protest and fight for.

You can mass murder all you like, but you can't infringe the rights of terrorists.

Another reason why the UK are leaving Europe I suggest, so they can strip many of the rights of would be terrorists and their sympathisers.

You can mass murder all you like? Who's saying that? Go on, find one poster here who said something even remotely close to that.

ricero · 23-05-2017 02:10PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

For those people advocating the deportation or internment of Muslims, how do you identify them?

lie detectors, background check, social media, see who they are associating with, search their computer history and where they are travelling to.

stop saying we cant and see that we can

Billy86 · 23-05-2017 02:10PM

Somedude9 wrote: »

Innocent my ****

How can a two year old be guilty of extremism and plotting terrorism?

pjohnson · 23-05-2017 02:12PM

roddy15 wrote: »

Just like how death row has never had innocent people added to it....right???

Yeah. Better do away with the watchlist alltogether.

fontdor · 23-05-2017 02:14PM

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

Danzy · 23-05-2017 02:15PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Yeah and also it actually is counter productive.IRA membership went up as a result of such policies. If you start persecuting one community you turn moderate people to aggression. Intelligence is the only way to stop certain attacks and most are but unfortunately someone slips through the net.

As someone said earlier the people who carry out these atrocities need to be stopped at an earlier stage in life.

There also needs to be a challenge to the culture that they grow up in, the material preached and disseminated in Mosques across Europe is severe enough to have many of them closed for exhorting violence and discrimination and murder.

How about Mosques where material where material calling for murder of certain people or groups is disseminated are closed.

I'm talking about mainstream Mosques btw.

People have chosen to turn a blind eye to this because of their ideological stance and out of fear of retaliation or being judged by their peers.

When thousands marched calling for the murder of Salman Rushdie for writing a verbose book it was a massive wake up call, it was ignored.

SkepticQuark · 23-05-2017 02:16PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah. Better do away with the watchlist alltogether.

Yeah you know I never said that (nice try though trying to shrug off the argument altogether) but to suggest that innocent people don't appear on watch lists is utterly ridiculous.

23-05-2017 02:16PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

Victim blaming? Get out. I'm talking about the governments advocating a foreign policy that fuels this hatred and arms these nutters and their supporters.

It's called Blowback. The CIA coined the term after they overthrew a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed the Shah whose brutal regime gave rise to the even more brutal Islamic Revolution in 1979.

What we are seeing today across Europe is the very same thing.

Last nights "Blowback" was against kids!
They didn't form the policies, or have any say in them - anymore than most of us here did!

So, again, who's this "We" that should have a long hard look at ourselves?
Because "We" had nothing to do with those policies, so, despite the fact that I agree that some western Governments have a lot to answer for, because policy re: the M.E was/is indefensible, anyone suggesting "We" are responsible is victim-blaming.

Ash.J.Williams · 23-05-2017 02:16PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

one of the aims of these attacks is to make us hate muslims. horrible situation.

Danzy · 23-05-2017 02:16PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

Good on you.

RobertKK · 23-05-2017 02:18PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

We can't blame innocent people for the wrongs of others.

Captain Obvious · 23-05-2017 02:18PM

All I can say is that not all of us are the same.

Something which shouldn't have to be explained in a country where over 80% identify as Catholic, a religion that blatantly discriminates against women and homosexuals. You can't judge a person by their religion or the predominant religion of the country they came from because their adherence to their religion can be as varied as it is here.

FAILSAFE 00 · 23-05-2017 02:18PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

So what happens if an innocent person is added to it?

I don't think people get added to these things for running red lights.

In saying that I'd accept a very low rate of casualty due to people being innocent on the list.

I'd tolerate this over bombers targeting children at mass gatherings.

Shurimgreat · 23-05-2017 02:20PM

Jayop wrote: »

You can mass murder all you like? Who's saying that? Go on, find one poster here who said something even remotely close to that.

I was referring to terrorists who mass murder.

pjohnson · 23-05-2017 02:21PM

roddy15 wrote: »

Yeah you know I never said that (nice try though trying to shrug off the argument altogether) but to suggest that innocent people don't appear on watch lists is utterly ridiculous.

I find doing nothing because someone might be innocent. All of the terrorists seem to be on a watchlist. They clearly arent watched as they happily go about their murder unopposed.

Permabear · 23-05-2017 02:21PM

This post has been deleted.

infogiver · 23-05-2017 02:21PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

I have many Muslim friends like you.
I know you are ashamed of these people but you have no need to be
They're version of Islam is nothing to do with the real version.
Stand up and make some noise.
Let them know that they're not speaking for you.

munsterlegend · 23-05-2017 02:21PM

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I don't think people get added to these things for running red lights.

In saying that I'd accept a very low rate of casualty due to people being innocent on the list.

I'd tolerate this over bombers targeting children at mass gatherings.

The question is though would it work? No it wouldn't in fact the problem would be far greater as evidenced by history.

23-05-2017 02:22PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

Please, don't be.

You are not responsible for what other people do.
Anymore than those who died or were injured last night were responsible for whatever grievance/perceived grievance the attacker was responding to.(Since none of us know yet why exactly he carried out the attack. We may have a broad idea, but we do not know his precise personal thoughts on the issue).

njs030 · 23-05-2017 02:22PM

pjohnson wrote: »

I find doing nothing because someone might be innocent. All of the terrorists seem to be on a watchlist. They clearly arent watched as they happily go about their murder unopposed.

Just because you don't hear about the incidents that are stopped doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Plenty of people are arrested in England under the terrorism act.

Shurimgreat · 23-05-2017 02:24PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

I'm not buying the "Islam is the religion of peace" thing. Its not. From the off it was drenched in the blood of innocent unarmed civilians who refused to convert.

I think muslims in general need to take a good hard look at their religion, its blood soaked history, and question whether its something that needs reform or whose significance should be relegated to the fringes of their life as has happened with Christianity in modern Europe.

Its long past time for a Islamic enlightenment.

iLikeWaffles · 23-05-2017 02:24PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It was outside. Before the security checks.

Itssoeasy · 23-05-2017 02:26PM

Ive been able to listen to some of the continuous coverage on BBC radio 5 live and some of the stories of bravery by people both young and old would warm your heart.

Even the presenters who are normally very professional are chocking up. I think it's because five live is based in Manchester is the reason.

FAILSAFE 00 · 23-05-2017 02:27PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

The question is though would it work? No it wouldn't in fact the problem would be far greater as evidenced by history.

Oh right. So we will leave them be and when the next attack occurs we will hear that line again "the attacker was on our terrorist watch list"

Widdershins · 23-05-2017 02:27PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Someone shared a video of an interview with a mother who had been inside. She said the security wasn't very good. Bags weren't checked at the entrance. She'd reported a lone adult woman who was sitting next to her, getting agitated and behaving strangely but security staff didn't really address her concerns. The lone woman 'disappeared' a couple of minutes before the bomb exploded.

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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