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Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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Comments

  • #1262
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    laugh wrote: »
    Are there really as many right wing clowns in Ireland as this thread seems to indicate?

    Stop immigration because of attacks carried out by British or European citizens? This attack and others were not the result of immigration. Immigrants have been displaced by the same ideology that likely prompted this attack though. An ideology that emanates from Wahhabist clerics in Saudi Arabia and becomes more widespread every time the west becomes involved in the Middle East.

    I don't see Isis attacking the pentagon. Do you?
    Donald Trump made a statement singling out Iran for blame, but look at the very recent election in Iran, the people came out in huge numbers to elect a more progressive leader.

    The us hostility to Iran is because of the control of Saudi and neocon influence. Europe needs to grow a pair and dissolve NATO.


  • #1263
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Jayop wrote: »
    Clueless. If Britain wants to trade with European counties they'll bend the knee to the court but won't have any input in how it's run.

    I'm not the one who's clueless.
    You can tell yourself that that's what's going to happen but that doesn't make it so.
    I see you've posted no link to how clueless I am


  • #1264
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    Would this attack have happened if Britain wasn't bombing Middle Eastern countries? I doubt it.


  • #1265
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Believe it or not, when I heard the news last night, and about the type of bomb used (a nail bomb), my first thought was that it wasn't an Islamist attack. The MO sounds more like the IRA. But then I heard it was a suicide bomb, and the needle shifted the other way. In the world today, since the end of the Sri Lanka Civil War, no-one else is using suicide bombing.

    I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe this has already been said, but I think it's worth repeating: increased security checks at fixed locations (such as arena entrances) are not the answer. If you do *anything* that causes people to queue or crowd together, the queue or crowd becomes a target. Create a long line for metal detectors, the line itself is the target.
    The bomber last night wasn't in the arena, and didn't need to be, since the target was the crowd of people who had just left the arena.

    You are the type of what the age is searching for, and what it is afraid it has found. I am so glad that you have never done anything, never carved a statue, or painted a picture, or produced anything outside of yourself! Life has been your art. You have set yourself to music. Your days are your sonnets.

    ―Oscar Wilde predicting Social Media, in The Picture of Dorian Gray



  • #1266
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,436 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    sjb25 wrote: »
    They could the Brits well able to do it in the north not so long ago
    Internment
    ....and that really helped keep people safe?!?!? FFS!


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  • #1267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SnakePlissken wrote: »
    That was not my suggestion and well you know it, I stated that the remains of one who commits such an atrocity should be buried in pig's blood.

    As you've purposely ignored my post to go off on your own tangent I'll ask again, what is your primary objection to burying these murderers in pig's blood? Do you believe they deserve better in death?

    Yep, punishments predicated on irrationally based symbolism are what we need as a solution. Well done sir.


  • #1268
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Yakult wrote: »
    This won't ever stop until western countries stop interfering with middle eastern affairs. You will always have extremists fighting as long as America and friends keep coming to their country, bombing the **** out of innocent people. It's like small towns in Ireland being bombed for the deaths of a few IRA lads in a shed, with plenty of civilian casualties to go with it.

    Short term solutions like fighting Isis are stupid. Someone will always replace them to fight their battle as long as western society continues to stick their big nose into the middle east for nothing more than control and monetary gain. That's the real problem.

    I take it you are going to go without oil or petrol in your car as a way of protest for the next couple of years?


  • #1269
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    laugh wrote: »
    Are there really as many right wing clowns in Ireland as this thread seems to indicate?

    Stop immigration because of attacks carried out by British or European citizens? This attack and others were not the result of immigration. Immigrants have been displaced by the same ideology that likely prompted this attack though.

    And what of the terror attacks in 20-30 years time? Are we going to say "but these are homegrown. They are from Syrian parents and grew up in the Europe".

    You have absolutely zero long term view. We will be sending our children into battlefields because their parents didn't want to appear "right wing". Their parents did NOTHING.


  • #1270
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    This is a Muslim problem because a non Muslim will not be able to talk these people around. Until Imam's/Scholars or someone prominent in the Muslim world comes out & denounces these attacks they will continue to happen. Of course no one will come out publicly for fear of death.


  • #1271
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    gmisk wrote: »
    While also signing a 110 billion dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia, the same country where the majority of the 9/11 terrorist attackers came from (15/19), a country which wasn't included in Trumps immigration ban.

    This article has a really good breakdown
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-ban-terrorism/514361/

    But none of this has anything to do with an attack on teenagers in Britain.


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  • #1272
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    I don't see Isis attacking the pentagon. Do you?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
    After the hijackers took control of the plane, several passengers and flight attendants learned from phone calls that suicide attacks had already been made by hijacked airliners on the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77
    pentagon-911.jpg


  • #1273
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,690 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Would this attack have happened if Britain wasn't bombing Middle Eastern countries? I doubt it.

    Who have Sweden bombed then?

    If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your state, it probably means you built your state on my land.

    EVENFLOW



  • #1274
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I take it you are going to go without oil or petrol in your car as a way of protest for the next couple of years?

    Those countries will sell oil regardless.

    One of the things we should do is try keep Assad in power.


  • #1275
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    SnakePlissken wrote: »
    That was not my suggestion and well you know it, I stated that the remains of one who commits such an atrocity should be buried in pig's blood.

    As you've purposely ignored my post to go off on your own tangent I'll ask again, what is your primary objection to burying these murderers in pig's blood? Do you believe they deserve better in death?
    I said it was the original suggestion. Seriously is there something ingrained in right wing nuts that they can't read a simple post?


  • #1276
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,224 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    sjb25 wrote: »
    They could the Brits well able to do it in the north not so long ago
    Internment

    Surely you remember how that worked out for them.


  • #1277
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    spoonerhead wrote: »
    Amazing that an Islamist has killed 22 people and the only thing some people can say is 'what about the middle East bombings'. Given it's the same 'people' doing it in both cases it's a paradox so to try compare them rather than face the facts, the loopy left..... The Quran permits its followers to kill infidels

    The point some people are trying to make, or at least it's the one that I think about the most is why do we care more about people based on where they live?

    There are children being killed daily in the middle east, do we not a fcuk about them?


  • #1278
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    laugh wrote: »
    Are there really as many right wing clowns in Ireland as this thread seems to indicate?

    Stop immigration because of attacks carried out by British or European citizens? This attack and others were not the result of immigration. Immigrants have been displaced by the same ideology that likely prompted this attack though. An ideology that emanates from Wahhabist clerics in Saudi Arabia and becomes more widespread every time the west becomes involved in the Middle East.

    Donald Trump made a statement singling out Iran for blame, but look at the very recent election in Iran, the people came out in huge numbers to elect a more progressive leader.

    Why are people who want stop these attacks happening in Ireland right wing? How will you feel if it does happen over here & someone close to you gets injured or killed?


  • #1279
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,436 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    But none of this has anything to do with an attack on teenagers in Britain.

    I didn't say it did.....but it gives you an idea of the hypocrisy of Donald Trump and their current foreign policy as well as previous foreign policy disasters


  • #1280
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    infogiver wrote: »
    I'm not the one who's clueless.
    You can tell yourself that that's what's going to happen but that doesn't make it so.
    I see you've posted no link to how clueless I am

    Christ even people on your side of this argument are saying you're wrong about that.

    Maybe you shouldn't have drank so much of Farage's kool-aid. Britain aren't leaving the echr. They are still going to be subject to EU law.


  • #1281
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Would this attack have happened if Britain wasn't bombing Middle Eastern countries? I doubt it.

    The British are involved in attacking Isis. That's one of the few legitimate uses out there. The US is trying to overthrow the regime.


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  • #1282
    SnakePlissken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭SnakePlissken


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    SnakePlissken wrote: »
    Bury the remains of any terrorist who commits such atrocities in pig's blood and it will perhaps dissuade the next jihadist waiting in the wings.

    Or it will make it easier to radicalize the next one. It's not exactly much of a leap to suggest someone could contort Islam to someone so as dying as a martyr before being buried in pigs blood simply made the sacrifice greater or some nonsense

    Unfortunately your argument just proves your naivety and ignorance to this issue, the Quran is not the bible, to its adherents it is literally the word of God, it cannot be amended to suit an agenda, cannot be revised to, in your words, make the sacrifice greater... before you condemn my suggestion perhaps you should further educate yourself on the beliefs of these extremists.


  • #1283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The main battle here is actually with Wahhabism anyways, not Islam in general. Saudi Arabia pump that out and fuel this nonsensical violence.

    Western countries should outright ban any sort of funding from or directed at it.


  • #1284
    red ears
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    These attacks aren't due to recent immigration issues.

    Westminster Attack: "The attacker, 52-year-old Briton Khalid Masood, drove a car into pedestrians on the pavement along the south side of Westminster Bridge and Bridge Street"

    Paris Attack: Abdelhamid Abaaoud was a Belgian-Moroccan, born in Anderlecht, a suburb of Brussels, Belgium. Salah Abdeslam (born 15 September 1989) is a Belgian-born French national of Moroccan descent.

    Brussels attack: Ibrahim El Bakraoui was born on 9 October 1986 in Brussels and raised in Laken, a residential district in northwestern Brussels. Najim Laachraoui was born in Ajdir, Morocco but raised in the Schaerbeek neighbourhood of Brussels, where he attended a Catholic high school.

    There's more I could mention. 3 of the London 2005 bombers were born in Leeds/Yorkshire. The other was born in Jamaica.

    Now I'm no apologist for immigration, I certainly don't want unrestricted immigration to Europe. However, I can clearly see that the problem isn't with immigration, it's to do with radicalisation of loner young men who are on the edge of society.

    Don't you think the recent large scale immigration and the increasing numbers of Muslims in Europe is bolstering these islamists sense of power. What will things be like when their numbers are at 20%. This is going to get much worse.


  • #1285
    Pa8301
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Pa8301


    Every time I hear of these atrocities happening my initial reaction is to channel my internal Colonel Kurtz; "Exterminate the brutes". However, then on mature reflection, as Mr. Lenihan once said, I realise that the solution is not that simple. I actually don't think there really is a solution.

    In my opinion there is a fundamental problem with Islam in that its teachings and beliefs can and are being interpreted in such a way as to foster radicalisation. It is obviously a tiny, tiny majority of Muslims who are radicalised, and you can't punish the many for the sins of the few. So what can we do? I don't think there is a lot we can do that we aren't doing already if we want to maintain the way of life to which we have become accustomed. Draconian security measures and restrictions on peoples liberties would probably make it harder for these people to carry out attacks. Is that something we really want though?

    As unpalateable as this sounds, maybe these attacks are the price we pay for living in free democracies and are something, which while not accepting, we are going to have to become inured to. I know that sounds quite cold-hearted.

    * I'm not sure I've conveyed my thoughts as well as I would like here, but I think it would take an essay for that, and ain't nobody got time for that!


  • #1286
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    spoonerhead wrote: »
    Amazing that an Islamist has killed 22 people and the only thing some people can say is 'what about the middle East bombings'. Given it's the same 'people' doing it in both cases it's a paradox so to try compare them rather than face the facts, the loopy left..... The Quran permits its followers to kill infidels

    So what do you think needs to happen to end all of these bombings? If Islam is the problem do we ban it? How would that work in practice? I think there is value in introducing western values to immigrants that come from the Middle East through education but at the same time that is probably going to create even more resentment in the long run.


  • #1287
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    SnakePlissken wrote: »
    As you've purposely ignored my post to go off on your own tangent I'll ask again, what is your primary objection to burying these murderers in pig's blood? Do you believe they deserve better in death?

    The objection is because doing such a thing only serves to radicalize more people and create support for their cause. You've very clearly not thought out the impact of such a poorly thought out idea.

    Imagine if the British Government had mistreated the remains of IRA members or suspected IRA members, do you think this would have helped or not helped support for the IRA?

    I'd bet my money on that it would have only created more support for the IRA. Thankfully even the British government knew better then you.


  • #1288
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Billy86 wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
    After the hijackers took control of the plane, several passengers and flight attendants learned from phone calls that suicide attacks had already been made by hijacked airliners on the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77
    pentagon-911.jpg
    SnakePlissken wrote: »
    Unfortunately you're argument just proves your naivety and ignorance to this issue, the Quran is not the bible, to its adherents it is literally the word of God, it cannot be amended to suit an agenda, cannot be revised to, in your words, make the sacrifice greater... before you condemn my suggestion perhaps you should further educate yourself on the beliefs of these extremists.

    But the Hadiths can be interpreted differently.


  • #1289
    laugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    Why are people who want stop these attacks happening in Ireland right wing? How will you feel if it does happen over here & someone close to you gets injured or killed?

    So throw out any existing Muslims and shut the door now? Never visit anywhere that has Muslims already? Should they all chuck their Muslims out too? To where? You want to build a big wall around the Middle East? Cut them off from the rest of the world? Don't trade with them at all? Leave them in there to their own devices in mass victimhood of being rejected by the rest of civilisation?

    Sounds like a few people here want to do that and maybe nuke them too.


  • #1290
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    gmisk wrote: »
    I didn't say it did.....but it gives you an idea of the hypocrisy of Donald Trump and their current foreign policy as well as previous foreign policy disasters

    That nice but nobody shot at trump or bombed the White House. Stop dragging teenagers in Britain into it. It seems some peope don't want collective punishment except for innocents in the west.

    If Isis ever do attack a US military base I won't be too upset.


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  • #1291
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Would this attack have happened if Britain wasn't bombing Middle Eastern countries? I doubt it.

    22 innocent people, many of them children, lose their lives in a sickening suicide attack and you use this to promote your agenda.

    you really need to do some serious growing up.


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