Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

infogiver · 23-05-2017 11:00AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, that's not how deportation works.

If I or a family became radicalised your solution would be to deport my whole family to France since that's where you can trace my lineage to. And if you tried that, France would tell you exactly where to go. Just like if you tried to send a radicalised person born and raised in Britain back to their grandparents country of origin, that country would tell you where to go.

And when that country basically tells you f*** off and that they won't take your citizens born in your country, what do you do?

I know that's not how deportations work.
In an ideal world if you are sympathising with a group of terrorists in a foreign country and its proved that your antecedents never assimilated into the country they chose to make their home in, then back to the mother country you all go. Let France dump you and your whole family back in Morocco or Algeria or wherever they came from in the 50s.

PTH2009 · 23-05-2017 11:00AM

Beasty wrote: »

I was at both Old Traffords as well as the Arena on Sunday. At the cricket ground there was no searching at all and they even allowed football fans in just to grab some food and drink. The football ground does have various security cordons, but that did not stop visiting fans bringing perhaps 50 or more flares into a recent Europa match. At the Arena they were checking bags but nothing else. However this happened outside the Arena, in the foyer. An enclosed area where people would have been milling around waiting for their kids to come out. You can't start searching everyone in the vicinity of an event (and bear in mind thousands will routinely go through the railway station every day), although I suspect this guy carefully planned the place and time he could do something with no security checks where it would cause maximum impact. It could just as easily have been after the final whistle as people were walking along the roadway under the Sir Alex Ferguson stand at just before 5 that afternoon

Wasn't it around this time last year the bomb scare happened in Old Trafford ???

Shurimgreat · 23-05-2017 11:01AM

pjohnson wrote: »

For those using the citizenship excuse why do these lovely people decide to represent Islamic State over the British State? They've chosen their state of preference. Why insist they are still British?

Good point. All who profess adherence to the Islamic State should be deported to Syria where they can live out their dream away from the rest of us.

Yakult · 23-05-2017 11:02AM

This won't ever stop until western countries stop interfering with middle eastern affairs. You will always have extremists fighting as long as America and friends keep coming to their country, bombing the **** out of innocent people. It's like small towns in Ireland being bombed for the deaths of a few IRA lads in a shed, with plenty of civilian casualties to go with it.

Short term solutions like fighting Isis are stupid. Someone will always replace them to fight their battle as long as western society continues to stick their big nose into the middle east for nothing more than control and monetary gain. That's the real problem.

Billy86 · 23-05-2017 11:02AM

infogiver wrote: »

I know that's not how deportations work.
In an ideal world if you are sympathising with a group of terrorists in a foreign country and its proved that your antecedents never assimilated into the country they chose to make their home in, then back to the mother country you all go. Let France dump you and your whole family back in Morocco or Algeria or wherever they came from in the 50s.

And again... when France or Morocco or Algeria or wherever else tells you to f*** off because they won't take me or my family since we're not French and have never lived in France, what is your next step?

Will I Am Not · 23-05-2017 11:02AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This is just misery porn at this stage. The wall to wall coverage is sickening.

Have you tried turning it off and back on again

SnakePlissken · 23-05-2017 11:02AM

The cowards who commit these sick atrocities do so with the belief they'll be martyrs who'll gain access to paradise and the virgins these islamists appear obsessed with, they also believe that pigs are inherently filthy and to be tainted by such an animal will ultimately bar them from paradise. It's all bat**** of course but it is what these extremists believe, the solution to stopping these attacks is therefore rather obvious;

One who commits such evil acts as Manchester or Paris or Nice, should have their remains buried in pig's blood... It's an unsavoury, some might argue barbaric thought, and it will not bring back the dead, but if the next jihadist waiting in the wings is under the illusion their martyrdom will not bring them to paradise, I doubt very that they'll proceed.

Awaits the first apologist who claims to do so contravenes the terrorist' s human rights, well I'm sorry but I don't believe the monstrously inhuman deserve human rights.

ArchXStanton · 23-05-2017 11:03AM

Has Merkel been wheeled out yet to spout out the usual buzzwords... solidarity etc etc

pjohnson · 23-05-2017 11:03AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wasn't it around this time last year the bomb scare happened in Old Trafford ???

Yes final day of the season.

Danzy · 23-05-2017 11:04AM

This is the result of Multiculturalism as much as immigration.

If Multiculturalism had not been indulged then migration would be less of a problem.

It is coming to its logical conclusion now.

...__... · 23-05-2017 11:05AM

Yourself isit wrote: »

They don't attack the west.

Didnt Hezzbollah blow up the us marine compound in 86?
And numerous attacks on un personnel?

PhoneMain · 23-05-2017 11:05AM

red ears wrote: »

We should stop all illegal immigration into Europe. Change the law so any business employing illegal staff are fined very significant sums of money. Return all illegal immigrants to their own countries and if they refuse to identify their country WE should identify them. It wouldn't be hard if we hired people to assess them. Give me a half hour with any Irish person and i could tell you if they are Irish or not. Hire Pakistanis, Bangladeshi's, Middle Easterners, African etc who could tell the authorities where these people are from. Get them all out of Europe illegals have nothing to offer us really have they. And we owe them nothing either.

BTW legal immigration channels should remain open so we can being in people from all over the world if we need them and they have something to offer us.

Great idea, then we'll have no scapegoats to blame when it turns out the perputrators are actually disenfranchised, radicalised native europeans! I like your thinking.

Danzy · 23-05-2017 11:08AM

Yakult wrote: »

This won't ever stop until western countries stop interfering with middle eastern affairs. You will always have extremists fighting as long as America and friends keep coming to their country, bombing the **** out of innocent people. It's like small towns in Ireland being bombed for the deaths of a few IRA lads in a shed, with plenty of civilian casualties to go with it.

Short term solutions like fighting Isis are stupid. Someone will always replace them to fight their battle as long as western society continues to stick their big nose into the middle east for nothing more than control and monetary gain. That's the real problem.

The invasion of Iraq was a horrendous crime, mistake, fu89 up, an event that changed history in a negative way and whose consequences will outlast all of us.

It still doesn't stop Countries and people who opposed it from being targeted by people who aren't Iraqi.

It isn't the main reason that Isis give for attacks or why they do it.

It was an old problem before America even existed.

infogiver · 23-05-2017 11:09AM

Billy86 wrote: »

And again... when France or Morocco or Algeria or wherever else tells you to f*** off because they won't take me or my family since we're not French and have never lived in France, what is your next step?

No. In an ideal world the UN Convention will dictate that both France and subsequently Morocco will be forced to accept your family, a family that CHOSE to leave Morocco 60 years ago but never attempted to accept the traditions and laws of its adopted country much less respect the traditions and laws.

PhoneMain · 23-05-2017 11:09AM

Yakult wrote: »

This won't ever stop until western countries stop interfering with middle eastern affairs.

I've often wondered what it will be like when all the oil runs out. Saudi Arabia won't have as much money for sponsoring terrorism. The US won't give a sh1te about this region anymore and will take their troops out (well, as long as Israel isn't attacked).

But it won't be stopped either until you address the loner's in society who are 2nd or 3rd generation and still haven't integrated into society that become an easy target for radicalisation in order to get a feeling or worth in their lives.

FrancieBrady · 23-05-2017 11:11AM

Nabber wrote: »

It's an attack on our way of life.

The solution to a problem like this otter goes against our core values!

Liberal sentiments out weigh conservative, but eventually that will change. Unfortunately there is likely no end to violence

Just wondering what you think those affected by bombs dropped from 20000 feet think is being attacked? Their 'way of life'?

Whatever cohort of fools thought that they could exploit and bomb other parts of the world into the 'acceptance of their gifts' and that those parts of the world wouldn't eventually come back to affect 'their way of life' are who we should be looking to lock up, suppress and curtail first. And then maybe we could start to put things somewhat back to rights.
'There were things that were done that we would rather had not been done', etc etc.

Sooner or later we all have to face up to this. We the Irish should (from experience) be leading the way in calling for it too, otherwise we quite simply and starkly, face 30 or 40 years of this type of attack and it will get worse before it gets better.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 23-05-2017 11:13AM

A woman reported suspicious behaviour to security during the concert, who basically told her "how would you like to be accused of this?"

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1763291003685489&id=164665060214766&_rdr

murpho999 · 23-05-2017 11:13AM

sjb25 wrote: »

And this guy blowing himself up didn't infringe the people he killed human rights

I no what you are saying to an extent but something has to be done I think known or suspected ISIS sympathisers is enough to fcuk them on a boat at this stage might not be right but what else do you do?

Yes, human rights

We all know terrorists don't care about it but governments do and they have to consider them.

What you are proposing is that government’s should be allowed snoop on all citizen’s e-mails, internet activity and then somehow interpret that as being loyal to ISIS.

So where do you draw the line?

I myself have looked at pages by ISIS groups just out of curiosity. Does that mean I’m a potential sympathiser and therefore should be arrested?

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Infringement on human rights are you serious? What about a child's human right to venture outside their own front door without the risk of being blown up? How did the UK deal with people in the IRA years ago? They dragged them from their beds and locked them up

History is one thing you can look back on and learn from.

If you were to do so properly you would know that Britain’s internment policy in Northern Ireland was an unmitigated disaster that only helped the IRA gain more recruits and eventually led to the British having to negotiate with the IRA and start a peace process.

wakka12 · 23-05-2017 11:13AM

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/808094/Georgina-Callander-Manchester-terror-attack-first-victim-explosion-bombing-Ariana-Grande

18 year old Georgina Callander named as first official fatality of the attack
Saw a missing appeal for her earlier on
Just so awful

RollieFingers · 23-05-2017 11:13AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Lock them up and force feed them pork so they're under no illusions where they're going and there'll be no virgins waiting for them

Is this a serious suggestion? Force feed them pork?

red ears · 23-05-2017 11:14AM

PhoneMain wrote: »

Great idea, then we'll have no scapegoats to blame when it turns out the perputrators are actually disenfranchised, radicalised native europeans! I like your thinking.

Whats your solution and whats your vision for future European immigration?

Billy86 · 23-05-2017 11:16AM

infogiver wrote: »

No. In an ideal world the UN Convention will dictate that both France and subsequently Morocco will be forced to accept your family, a family that CHOSE to leave Morocco 60 years ago but never attempted to accept the traditions and laws of its adopted country much less respect the traditions and laws.

Yeah, that's not ever going to happen any more than an magical anti-radicalisation laser beam, for a laundry list of reasons (and we'd see the US and others dumping off huge numbers of prisoners all across Europe, Ireland very much included). So it would be more worthwhile to come up with actual realistic options.

mcmoustache · 23-05-2017 11:18AM

Omackeral wrote: »

My gf asked "how do you stop this" and the answer is that you realistically cant. These f*cks are already in these countries so any talk of close the borders is a bit futile. Bataclan, Brussells, Lee Rigby's Murder, all carried out by Europeans essentially. They don't even need high powered weapons or bombs, as we saw in Nice and in Sweden. It's actually a terrifying concept. Yes Europe, on the whole is safe but make no bones about it, these pigs are holding the detonator and can press it any time they want. If someone really wanted to, they could take a massive truck and fly down Oxford St, Times Sq, or bloody O'Connell St on a busy Saturday afternoon. It's a horrendous concept but it's that simple.

I'm not sure it's that hopeless. As I said in an earlier post, these people are almost always known to authorities. How about increased scrutiny followed by swift deportation or incarceration on the slightest hint of jihad.

RayM · 23-05-2017 11:19AM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Awaits the first apologist who claims to do so contravenes the terrorist' s human rights, well I'm sorry but I don't believe the monstrously inhuman deserve human rights.

You don't have to be an "apologist" to feel that hatred and inhumanity will only breed more hatred and inhumanity.

DredFX · 23-05-2017 11:20AM

Nothing short of arresting people for conducting the slightest of suspicious activity will stop this. The majority of terror perpetrators in the West were born/raised in their respective countries, with radicalisation occurring in the privacy of their own homes. Most of the time, the warning signs aren't seen until after the act has been committed, and if we start using these warning signs as impetuses to arrest people, you're going to see unwarranted detainments, false-arrest complaints, and officers too afraid to do their jobs due to fear of losing them.

23-05-2017 11:21AM

infogiver wrote: »

I know that's not how deportations work.
In an ideal world if you are sympathising with a group of terrorists in a foreign country and its proved that your antecedents never assimilated into the country they chose to make their home in, then back to the mother country you all go. Let France dump you and your whole family back in Morocco or Algeria or wherever they came from in the 50s.

I don't even know how to respond to this rubbish.

PeterTheNinth · 23-05-2017 11:21AM

Something else going on in the UK now.. Security alert.

Jayop · 23-05-2017 11:22AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Pointing out the semantics of which particular IRA group was responsible for which particular unacceptable atrocity is the type of thing I am saying is inappropriate today.

In 21 years time, if another bombing happens by some other group, if someone comes along and says it wasn't ISIS but the Taliban who were responsible for last night, do you think any of the people affected either by last night or that future bomb will give a f**k? No, it will be completely inappropriate just like it is completely inappropriate to defend the IRA on this day.

Bull****. I was replying to someone else but because they were bashing you didn't say a thing. You accused me of sympathetic and defending the IRA in this thread. I did no such thing. Like most of you lot of fear mongers who revel in this type of thing because you can come in and preach your hate the actual content of my posts was completely lost on you.

mcmoustache · 23-05-2017 11:24AM

DredFX wrote: »

Nothing short of arresting people for conducting the slightest of suspicious activity will stop this. The majority of terror perpetrators in the West were born/raised in their respective countries, with radicalisation occurring in the privacy of their own homes. Most of the time, the warning signs aren't seen until after the act has been committed, and if we start using these warning signs as impetuses to arrest people, you're going to see unwarranted detainments, false-arrest complaints, and officers too afraid to do their jobs due to fear of losing them.

Yeah, it does get complicated, unfortunately.

One way that might work would be to apprehend them early and hit them with something like a terrorism-ASBO which would activate incarceration on proof of contact with known terrorists either online or in person.

23-05-2017 11:25AM

blanch152 wrote: »

There is no excuse for the likes of last night or what the IRA did.

As an Irish person, it made me ashamed to hear interviews with Manchester people on the radio comparing last night to the IRA bombing 21 years ago. It brought back all the horror of what the IRA did to so many innocent people over the years from Kingsmill (which they still deny) to Brighton.

As for the political/religion differential excuse being proffered by the IRA apologists, it is so shallow that it is insulting. Scratch beneath the surface of the political extremists in the North and you will find a bigoted sectarian divide based purely on the religious differences between Catholic and Protestant.

The era of social media and wall-to-wall news has brought these atrocities right into our living-room. Thankfully it means the IRA would never survive in today's world.

Firstly, RIP to all those killed in last nights horrific events.

Secondly the above really is a bit sanctimonious moralising to make one feel better about ones self. Did you cut and paste it from a UK rag/red top editorial or what? l'm sure the British Armys actions on Bloody Sunday would have been reported more graphically, judged more harshly etc if social media was around in January 1972. No matter how horrific an incident is you always have people such as you popping your head above the parapet and offering utterly incomplete versions of history (to suit an agenda perhaps?). Is you 'feeling ashamed' (because your Irish?) somehow meant to offer the victims some comfort? Its pathetic spineless slactivist guff tbh. And to the other poster who said people will condemn this and then go out and vote SF, haven't you heard: the election campaign has been suspended for the moment.....

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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