Electric Ireland solar panels & EV charging?

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2017 08:57PM

You have to think is it right for you. Personally if I go with it I am aware I will also need to invest in more electrical devices.

Ok so I have moved to electric car but second car would need to also try and make sure of it, so maybe a PHEV or something till decent 7 seater electric is available.

Tractor lawnmower would need to go and replace with robomower.
Have one power shower from immersion and then 2 Triton showers, would need to replace the 2 x triton and try and replace with Power shower
Things like strimmers etc see if can replace with decent electric versions

All of this of course would mean that Solar would pay itself off quicker but it also costs a lot to replace all these items with electric versions.

listermint · 11-05-2017 09:00PM

KCross wrote: »

Not sure which one of you is right but I haven't seen worked examples showing it payback in reasonable timeframes either.

Do you have numbers that show it working. Can you share?

Why ? All I have seen is paybacks over 10 years.

20 years ? For what something with a Tesla wall.

Go research it .

For someone who is super interested in solar and supposedly writes software for solar and had never bothered self installing any level of solar it's perplexing boatmad.

Why should I bother going posting research when you are firing out 10 k installs and 20 year plus paybacks.

Sorry your facts request will be given the same credence as the facts your subscribe to.

Gumbo · 11-05-2017 09:01PM

unkel wrote: »

Still far too expensive.

Yeah, we all got spammed with that, thank you IEVOA. Nothing on the link to actual deals, actual prices, etc. :rolleyes:

And when you call them, the company don't bother calling you back!

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2017 09:14PM

To resolve the issue

http://www.ecoevolution.ie/wind-energy.html

listermint · 11-05-2017 09:18PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To resolve the issue

http://www.ecoevolution.ie/wind-energy.html

But sure they won't buy it off you when generated and something something crazies off grid.

11-05-2017 09:40PM

Why would you pay for any solar PV array to end up dumping the majority of the electricity generated ?

You'll generate far too much than you can use int he brighter months and have far too little in the darker months.

With Solar panels under 1 USD per Watt, I would find that extremely expensive even given inverters labour etc.

at 17C/day and 8 C/night and no FIT Solar PV is ridiculously expensive.

11-05-2017 10:08PM

Here are some facts, we, family of 4, granted the two Children, 2 Boys aged nearly 1.5 and just gone 3 are not requiring much energy (apart from my mental and physical energy ) at this point but still, average is (was in the old house) around 15.5 Kwh/day. Or 5,500 Per year. Probably more since we moved, larger house, well pump, pump on the Septic tank, now have dishwasher etc and my energy monitor isn't working atm.

Anyway, 5,600 Kwh per year for car and house (old house)

According to some solar PV calculators I would need 6.6 Kwp to deliver this energy per year but the contrast in generated power varies considerably, for instance I would generate an Average of 190 Kwh in December to 801 Kwh in July .

Break that down to daily energy would be 6.3 Kwh in December and 26.7 Kwh in July. Now these are averages and any one day can have more or less.

So if I generate 26.7 Kwh daily in July I then have to dump 11.5 Kwh. What a waste. On days I work nights I can charge the car during the day when I'm in bed. But I would still have an excess.

So the FIT is really the only sane way to go with Solar PV, provided you get (after tax) what you pay for day rate which is unlikely given that's a lot more than what ESBN pay for it commercially. So most likely, the tax payer will pay for it and the cost of electricity goes up. Or at least if we got the night rate cost of electricity after tax then at least you get at night what you pay during the day which would be a big deal for most EV owners who naturally charge at night at the cheaper rate.

We are many years away from where battery energy gets cheap enough to justify it.

listermint · 12-05-2017 06:58AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Here are some facts, we, family of 4, granted the two Children, 2 Boys aged nearly 1.5 and just gone 3 are not requiring much energy (apart from my mental and physical energy ) at this point but still, average is (was in the old house) around 15.5 Kwh/day. Or 5,500 Per year. Probably more since we moved, larger house, well pump, pump on the Septic tank, now have dishwasher etc and my energy monitor isn't working atm.

Anyway, 5,600 Kwh per year for car and house (old house)

According to some solar PV calculators I would need 6.6 Kwp to deliver this energy per year but the contrast in generated power varies considerably, for instance I would generate an Average of 190 Kwh in December to 801 Kwh in July .

Break that down to daily energy would be 6.3 Kwh in December and 26.7 Kwh in July. Now these are averages and any one day can have more or less.

So if I generate 26.7 Kwh daily in July I then have to dump 11.5 Kwh. What a waste. On days I work nights I can charge the car during the day when I'm in bed. But I would still have an excess.

So the FIT is really the only sane way to go with Solar PV, provided you get (after tax) what you pay for day rate which is unlikely given that's a lot more than what ESBN pay for it commercially. So most likely, the tax payer will pay for it and the cost of electricity goes up. Or at least if we got the night rate cost of electricity after tax then at least you get at night what you pay during the day which would be a big deal for most EV owners who naturally charge at night at the cheaper rate.

We are many years away from where battery energy gets cheap enough to justify it.

Get a smaller array , it would half your ESB bills. It's not always about over generation as much as people try to make it be

MaceFace · 12-05-2017 08:44AM

For those of us who would like to lower our energy costs but don't really have a clue about this, is there any company offering any product (small or large) that would be considered a worthwhile investment?

Let's assume we are talking about an average family - similar to Mad_Lad...

cnocbui · 12-05-2017 08:53AM

If solar panels can be viable in Ireland, just imagine how much more viable they would be in Australia? I think the winters too long and dark, personally.

The pay back period for SPV systems in Oz is just a bit over two years, I believe.

reboot · 12-05-2017 09:01AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

BoatMad wrote: »

DIY I can get 4Kwp for about 3-4K , plus installation hardware and solar regulator/invertor

the main problem is I have nowhere for the damm electricity to go !!!!

DIY I would probably electrocute myself or blow something up :P:P

Some say that my EV will only accept a charge of at least 10 amps, nothing below this, that's a lot to expect from solar, and makes no financial sense?

antoinolachtnai · 12-05-2017 09:02AM

The problem with FIT tariffs and all the rest of it is that intermittent solar power generated during summer is worth very little. There is little demand for it and supply on the grid is going to outstrip demand across Europe as more PV comes on stream.

cros13 · 12-05-2017 10:55AM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The problem with FIT tariffs and all the rest of it is that intermittent solar power generated during summer is worth very little. There is little demand for it and supply on the grid is going to outstrip demand across Europe as more PV comes on stream.

Sure... but we're getting to the point where unsubsidised solar is viable in most european markets (including the UK), so that's unstoppable.

What needs to be addressed is a plan to manage the transition from CCGT to renewables, possibly one that includes temporary subsidies for grid scale battery, pumped hydro and existing CCGT because all that summer excess is going to hit the bottom line of the CCGT operators when we still need them to handle the winter trough.

DrPhilG · 12-05-2017 03:32PM

Edit

antoinolachtnai · 12-05-2017 03:35PM

The general problem is that it is more economic to put up a big turbine than a load of small turbines. The reason is that so much groundwork si required to secure a turbine to the ground, even a small one. You might as well build a big one while you are at it. The overall expense is obviously greater for a big one, but the cost per kW is much lower.

12-05-2017 04:45PM

listermint wrote: »

Get a smaller array , it would half your ESB bills. It's not always about over generation as much as people try to make it be

Smaller array has the same issue, I don't want to pay for solar PV and have to dump most of the energy, the pay back would take many years longer. We only need so much hot water and compared to petrol/diesel having EV saves far more money anyway.

BoatMad · 13-05-2017 09:55PM

MaceFace wrote: »

For those of us who would like to lower our energy costs but don't really have a clue about this, is there any company offering any product (small or large) that would be considered a worthwhile investment?

Let's assume we are talking about an average family - similar to Mad_Lad...

It depends on what you regard as a reasonable period to get a return on your investment.

antoinolachtnai · 13-05-2017 10:11PM

Well, the best returns are on the cheapest things, in particular draught proofing and insulation. After that, a boiler upgrade might be worthwhile. If your house is well insulated and gas is not available, a heat pump might be an option. If you use a lot of hot water, a well insulated hot water cylinder and some sort of solar water heating might make sense, and this could be PV panels with excess diverted as heat to your hot tank. If you had the heat pump, it could run off the PV.

Shefwedfan · 14-05-2017 02:28PM

MaceFace wrote: »

For those of us who would like to lower our energy costs but don't really have a clue about this, is there any company offering any product (small or large) that would be considered a worthwhile investment?

Let's assume we are talking about an average family - similar to Mad_Lad...

It depends on your house. I have just completed my second renovation. I learned a few things from the first and ironed the majority of them out.....there is small changes and then large changes you can make which make a difference....

Any of those companies you get in will give you a report which will point to the 2-3 things they can sell or they have agreement with another company to resell...

What type of house you live in? when was it built?

PM me more info if you want and I might be able to give you some ideas......

reboot · 14-05-2017 03:19PM

Just to get back to EV solar charging, sorry if I've already posted this, but I can't find it. I've read that my EV will only start to charge, above 10 amps, that's a lot to expect from solar, and expensive?

14-05-2017 04:27PM

Seriously, at 8c/Kwh night rate any renewable energy will be uneconomical in Ireland.

Dumping the energy is a waste.

antoinolachtnai · 14-05-2017 04:56PM

You mean that 8c/kWh is too low-priced to compete with?

reboot · 14-05-2017 05:10PM

The battery is at least 22kwhr, it's all nonsense?

BoatMad · 15-05-2017 01:35PM

reboot wrote: »

Just to get back to EV solar charging, sorry if I've already posted this, but I can't find it. I've read that my EV will only start to charge, above 10 amps, that's a lot to expect from solar, and expensive?

on a leaf, the lowest charge current is 6A , i.e. about 1300 watts, not at all impossible from a solar PV array

cnocbui · 15-05-2017 03:43PM

In winter? And how long would it take to charge a Leaf in winter from a solar panel?

BoatMad · 15-05-2017 03:46PM

cnocbui wrote: »

In winter? And how long would it take to charge a Leaf in winter from a solar panel?

what size array ?

gizmo555 · 16-05-2017 10:59AM

BoatMad wrote: »

on a leaf, the lowest charge current is 6A , i.e. about 1300 watts, not at all impossible from a solar PV array

Electric Ireland in its FAQs on its solar panel offering is estimating an average annual output about 1,500 kWh. This would seem to suggest that most of the time output would be well below 6A.

unkel · 16-05-2017 12:08PM

Even if you use the full 1,500kWh and stick it into your EV (all of it!), it will have saved you about €100 per year at 7c night rate

In practice you might only use half during the day and use it for your house. In that case you will also save about €100 per year at day rates

Even if you could get this installation done for €2.5k instead of the €4.5k they are looking for, payback would be at least 25 years, probably a lot more taking into account system maintenance and less than ideal use of the units produced...

And don't even think of spending money to divert excess to immersion, as that will save you just about nothing taking into account the extra cost of hardware and installation

We need FIT, Minister, wake up!!!

KCross · 16-05-2017 12:26PM

unkel wrote: »

We need FIT, Minister, wake up!!!

He says that FiT is not within his remit.... from the horses mouth...

Regarding the feed-in-tariff scheme you mentioned, Electric Ireland had been offering a micro-generation feed-in-tariff since February 2009. On 31 December 2014, the scheme closed to new customers but the scheme does remain open to existing customers until December 2016. No other electricity supplier had chosen to provide such a tariff, either to domestic or commercial customers though they have been invited to do so by the Commission for Energy Regulation (CER). Responsibility for the regulation of the electricity market is a matter for the CER which is an independent statutory body and would be outside my authority as Minister.

16-05-2017 12:35PM

cnocbui wrote: »

In winter? And how long would it take to charge a Leaf in winter from a solar panel?

This is part of my earlier post. Note the part highlighted in Blue !

Anyway, 5,600 Kwh per year for car and house (old house)

According to some solar PV calculators I would need 6.6 Kwp to deliver this energy per year but the contrast in generated power varies considerably, for instance I would generate an Average of 190 Kwh in December to 801 Kwh in July .

Break that down to daily energy would be 6.3 Kwh in December and 26.7 Kwh in July. Now these are averages and any one day can have more or less.

So if I generate 26.7 Kwh daily in July I then have to dump 11.5 Kwh. What a waste. On days I work nights I can charge the car during the day when I'm in bed. But I would still have an excess.

Break that down to daily energy would be 6.3 Kwh in December and 26.7 Kwh in July.

*Now these are averages, on some days in winter you could generate more, or even less. *

You'd also need the car plugged in at home during daylight hours.

It's highly unlikely you can use the energy during the day and for what you get it wouldn't be worth leaving the car without using it.

Electric Ireland solar panels & EV charging?

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