Why are we hating all the men?

ArchXStanton · 13-05-2017 12:04PM

Any critque of women's p*ss poor behaviour gets you labelled a misogynist these days..

Elemonator · 13-05-2017 12:05PM

I know what you mean OP. I myself have come across this on social media. A specific one would be "mansplaining". Basically no man of understanding can explain anything to a less knowledgeable female without talking down to her. It's a stupid term to explain the clashing of personalities.

Don't refer to it as feminism though OP, real feminism which promotes equality between men and woman no real man would have a problem with. Toxic feminism would be closer to supremacist.

'Lem

......... · 13-05-2017 12:07PM

eyerer wrote: »

.........;103493722

Men as I'm sure you've noticed are now also increasingly portrayed as weak buffoons in advertisements and in drama / films.

I first noticed this in comedies, maybe 20 years ago. In the end I stopped watching them.
The man is always stupid and the butt of jokes, the woman is strong, immune to criticism and always right. I'd hate to see this crap spread to other genres. Another thing I noticed that in a male-oriented drama, say boardwalk empire, the main women are portrayed as strong. If you watch a female oriented program men are either objectified or ridiculed (new Ghostbusters?). Have you seen the yoghurt adverts.. always geared at women and the men wear very little clothes and are portrayed as stupid. Women would never be portrayed like that now but its ok for men.

I wish I didn't notice it because I don't see it changing.

Thing is it's always denied that it's happening

......... · 13-05-2017 12:09PM

Elemonator wrote: »

I know what you mean OP. I myself have come across this on social media. A specific one would be "mansplaining". Basically no man of understanding can explain anything to a less knowledgeable female without talking down to her. It's a stupid term to explain the clashing of personalities.

Don't refer to it as feminism though OP, real feminism which promotes equality between men and woman no real man would have a problem with. Toxic feminism would be closer to supremacist.

'Lem

The term "Mansplaining" exposed for what it is

red ears · 13-05-2017 12:17PM

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

It is out there in this country.

Replies are disgusting so maybe don't read...

https://twitter.com/jpy_kurdish/status/861404580768362496

Imagine one sex saying "know your place" to another sex in this day and age. It's outrageous.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 12:59PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

We need to think about citizenship as including everyone. Feminism is about women asking that power structures that we are ALL confined by are changed. Feminism is beneficial to men as well as it's about women having more visibility, more of a say, which boost fairness, wellbeing and is better for us as a society to be on an even keel, to say that feminism is about man hating is reductive and certainly some of the posts on this thread have been frivolous which takes away from the real problems here. We need to make society more inclusive and feminism helps in that aim and casts light on other areas where inclusiveness in not in effect also.

I feel sometimes if a woman shouts 'I am a victim of this' men clam up and say 'i am a victim' of your generalised misandrism, not all men' but that is not the issue, the issue is much much bigger it's about social roles, values, institutional power, gender pay gaps. Don't fall into the trap of being reductive!

Example: Child care is still mainly the role of the female in society, the woman will work part time while men continue on with their career. The role of women in child birth is already reflected in maternity leave but after that there is no reason why child care should not be shared or the woman given the choice to continue on her path but still the majority of people you see at the school gate are women. I don't know about the Dail but in the house of commons around 75% percent of men in parliament have children, less than 50% of women in the house of commons have children. The conclusion is that it's harder for women to have children and be in a high powered job, women have to have a supportive or rich partner for them to be able to have both whereas it is easier for men to have both. This paradigm operates in other industries as well.

As another poster said men are exposed to men on men violence but women are exposed more to men on women violence. We need to ask why, where is the failure? I feel sick opening the newspaper sometimes reading the violent acts perpetrated against women. How, why is society failing these young men?

The media still portrays women as commodities and something that men deserve.

Language also plays a part, if a man shys away from something or isn't good at a sport he has either done it 'like a girl' or he is 'a pussy'. Women are referred to as farm animals; Cows, Chickens, Bitches etc., For a while on after hours posters were allowed to reply to posts with 'blast her with piss'.

I need feminism and I don't agree with the O.P's attempt to repackage it and make it about 'hysteria' and 'man hating'.

The problem with this post is feminism has become more than what you portray it as, it is still fighting for the rights of women where it needs to be but parts of it also has an objective to be anti-man.

Feminism as it currently stands is not a benefit to men, we have seen many examples of late including on boards (the foreign lady telling men to but out of the referendum).

Just from todays independent look at this http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/inside-the-womens-prison-society-says-she-deserves-what-she-gets-but-the-child-is-also-impacted-by-this-35709316.html . Could you imagine if it was the other way around.

Please don't fall into the trap of being a hard core anti-male feminist. We have already seen what you think of men with your dismissal of this thread earlier on.

Mountainsandh · 13-05-2017 01:13PM

Murrisk wrote: »

I dunno. I'm 33 and went through an "OMG, women are so oppressed, ALL men are assholes, I'm a feminist!" phase in my early-mid teens. It passes. (for most) It's more a developmental phase, IMO, to be a bit sanctimonious (and frequently hypocritical) because you believe you should fight for popular, clichéd causes without thinking about it all too deeply. It's nothing new, from what I can see.

Yeah, good point, definitely.
Although I think the context is important. If you go through that phase, and the rest of society is balanced enough, you'll fall on your feet and find your genuine thresholds and opinions with maturity ; as the current propaganda contaminates more in our everyday life, like social media, cinema, TV, newspapers, etc... I think it is more likely that young people will be more "tainted".

I'm not explaining very well what I think

If "the new normal" is for young women to feel victimized and to assume that males must be approached on the defensive, then even if they go through that phase like you're saying, and come out the other side as reasonable people, their original yardstick is still a bit "off".

I don't think it's a very big threat, this feminism trend in real life either.

It's just that in the context of more and more people remaining in a lingering state of "adolescence" and young adulthood mentally, feminism seems more of a bother, imo. (even in real life society)

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 13-05-2017 01:26PM

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

It is out there in this country.

Replies are disgusting so maybe don't read...

https://twitter.com/jpy_kurdish/status/861404580768362496

Wow what a horrible nasty piece of work

cloudatlas · 13-05-2017 01:31PM

Calhoun wrote: »

The problem with this post is feminism has become more than what you portray it as, it is still fighting for the rights of women where it needs to be but parts of it also has an objective to be anti-man.

Feminism as it currently stands is not a benefit to men, we have seen many examples of late including on boards (the foreign lady telling men to but out of the referendum).

Just from todays independent look at this http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/inside-the-womens-prison-society-says-she-deserves-what-she-gets-but-the-child-is-also-impacted-by-this-35709316.html . Could you imagine if it was the other way around.

Please don't fall into the trap of being a hard core anti-male feminist. We have already seen what you think of men with your dismissal of this thread earlier on.

Yea I did dismiss the thread because I was afraid it would all be anecdotal vox pop 'Adrian, Adrian I just called into say' kind of rubbish. You didn't engage with any of the points I made. Feminism from an academic, learned and societal angle engages with the thought that we should all address the power structure that we are confined by. Your view of feminism is very skewed.

I'm not a hard core anti-male feminist, nothing I said suggested that. I am a feminst though.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 13-05-2017 01:33PM

At the rate we are going we'll need to teach our daughters how to treat men with kindness and respect and not the other way around if these type of feminists continue to behave as they are.

Hagar7 · 13-05-2017 01:36PM

My wife Helga is always eyeing up other men,should I divorce her,she has squinty eyes though,so when she looks at me she's looking at someone else,am I paranoid.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 01:37PM

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

It is out there in this country.

Replies are disgusting so maybe don't read...

https://twitter.com/jpy_kurdish/status/861404580768362496

Can you tell me how many of the replies on this one is from Irish people? I see allot of folk from across the pond and central europe.

Just at a glance, there are 2 main Irish posters i can see one is defending her and one is posted up a picture of the house that burnt down recently.

The comments on her race and skin color definitely isnt something to be proud of but as usual we are reaching to show how much of a bunch of a bastards we Irish are.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 01:42PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Yea I did dismiss the thread because I was afraid it would all be anecdotal vox pop 'Adrian, Adrian I just called into say' kind of rubbish. You didn't engage with any of the points I made. Feminism from an academic, learned and societal angle engages with the thought that we should all address the power structure that we are confined by. Your view of feminism is very skewed.

I'm not a hard core anti-male feminist, nothing I said suggested that. I am a feminst though.

I don't really need to as you don't want to hear it, otherwise you would have engaged properly earlier. Allot of peoples view of feminism is skewed, we have the current generation of females who are quick to jump on any many telling them on one level they need feminism as the are suicidal but then telling them they are default racists.

Even worse than that is the male white night, normally someone who is socially anxious introvert and can't really approach women so they try the wolves in sheep clothing tactic. They are nearly more hardline as they hope their anti-male bleets will somehow get them in there with the female company.

You want to talk about equality fine by me but don't tell me that a belief system that has been taken over for the most part by hardliners who don't want equality is good for me.

pjohnson · 13-05-2017 01:43PM

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't really need to as you don't want to hear it. Allot of peoples view of feminism is skewed, we have the current generation of females who are quick to jump on any many telling them on one level they need feminism as the are suicidal but then telling them they are default racists.

Even worse than that is the male white night, normally someone who is socially anxious introvert and can't really approach women so they try the wolves in sheep clothing tactic.

You want to talk about equality fine by me but don't tell me that a belief system that has been taken over for the most part by hardliners who don't want equality is good for me.

This is the equality feminists want. Men silenced and nodding in agreement that they are the devil.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 01:53PM

smooth_crook wrote: »

feminism is about lobbying for and securing advantage for women ( mostly middle class urban women )

thats fair enough , just stop the nonesense it being good for men , it explicitly implies men have it too good as a base point and that taking men down a peg is good for the world as a whole

the entire idealogy is largely built on falsehoods , the gender pay gap being a prime example

if such a thing existed , who would ever employ a man to do anything

newsflash , the average nigerian earns substantially less than the average american in ireland , does this mean there is an ethnic wag gap ?

Whats worse is i believe on average in Ireland the gender pay gap only becomes an issue when a women has children. After that lifestyle choices impact on the pay gap, but up until that point they are paid equally or better than male counter parts.

More so than that look at all the positive discrimination of late which in my eyes is sexism but as its aimed at men it doesnt matter. If your a female entrepreneur you can get a nice juicy grant from enterprise Ireland but male you may sling your hook.

cloudatlas · 13-05-2017 02:11PM

Calhoun wrote: »

You want to talk about equality fine by me but don't tell me that a belief system that has been taken over for the most part by hardliners who don't want equality is good for me.

I did engage I wrote a massive post on it. I couldn't understand your first paragraph ' they need feminism as the are suicidal but then telling them they are default racists' 'male white night'. What does this mean, it's very garbled. Is this something you've gleaned from twitter or infantile posts social forums?

'You want to talk about equality fine by me but don't tell me that a belief system that has been taken over for the most part by hardliners who don't want equality is good for me'.

I'm not telling you that. I think men are threatened by the way things are discussed because it comes across as patronizing, nobody likes to be told 'the way you've been doing things is wrong you have to change' and from that perspective I see your point but many of the posts aren't just anti this form of discourse they are also anti the message, this is a moral question and we have to face it, if I was you and you do want to support change I wouldn't be put off by a twitter video for example because the core idea stays the same and threads like this try to distract from the moral discussion. Saying 'I dislike louise O'neill's way of speaking about equality so I don't want equality' is silly. Although I do agree the patronising element can be off putting the overall message stays the same, the fact that our institutions support power structures that exclude women is a problem.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 02:24PM

I did engage I wrote a massive post on it. I couldn't understand your first paragraph ' they need feminism as the are suicidal but then telling them they are default racists' 'male white night'. What does this mean, it's very garbled. Is this something you've gleaned from twitter or infantile posts social forums?

Your first two posts show your true intent and feelings on the matter, you would rather it not be discussed and dismissed out of hand.

I thought most were aware of the self pro-claimed feminist in the rubber bandit who was saying that lost suicidal young men only need to look to feminism to help them out.

You know exactly what i mean, there are male feminists who are in it for one reason only. When they finally get rejected enough more than likely will turn into hardliners for the other side.

'You want to talk about equality fine by me but don't tell me that a belief system that has been taken over for the most part by hardliners who don't want equality is good for me'.

I'm not telling you that. I think men are threatened by the way things are discussed because it comes across as patronizing, nobody likes to be told 'the way you've been doing things is wrong you have to change' and from that perspective I see your point but many of the posts aren't just anti this form of discourse they are also anti the message, this is a moral question and we have to face it, if I was you and you do want to support change I wouldn't be put off by a twitter video for example because the core idea stays the same and threads like this try to distract from the moral discussion. Saying 'I dislike louise O'neill's way of speaking about equality so I don't want equality' is silly. Although I do agree the patronising element can be off putting the overall message stays the same, the fact that our institutions support power structures that exclude women is a problem.

I don't think you get it at all, if this was a discussion where we wanted to talk about equality and we put everything on the table then fine. You cannot in one breath call me a potential rapist but then in another want me to work with you.

The feminist agenda as many have pointed out in other threads is to push for female rights, not equal rights. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.

Will I Am Not · 13-05-2017 02:28PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Can you tell me how many of the replies on this one is from Irish people? I see allot of folk from across the pond and central europe.

Just at a glance, there are 2 main Irish posters i can see one is defending her and one is posted up a picture of the house that burnt down recently.

The comments on her race and skin color definitely isnt something to be proud of but as usual we are reaching to show how much of a bunch of a bastards we Irish are.

I didn't read through the comments. After the first couple you could see it was just going to be a race thing.

In fairness though, in the full video she does keep putting down Ireland and saying that Savita girl died because Ireland is a racist country.

Ninjini · 13-05-2017 02:31PM

I honestly worry about how society is turning against men. I have two wonderful sons that I fear are growing up in a society where they, as white males are told they are privileged when in reality they are anything but.
It's blatant even in cartoons that Daddy is a bumbling idiot and Mummy has to fix everything for him. Peppa pig being the first example that comes to mind.

My brother once told me how he was approached by a little girl when walking his dog, completely innocent encounter but he was cautious and aware of people watching him with this little girl.

Also on parenting fora I have been active with its staggering how many people react negatively when they find out that they are expecting a son. As if only daughters are wanted or celebrated.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 02:36PM

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

I didn't read through the comments. After the first couple you could see it was just going to be a race thing.

In fairness though, in the full video she does keep putting down Ireland and saying that Savita girl died because Ireland is a racist country.

Don't get me wrong its terrible the race comments that are coming through on that one.

However her whole approach on the topic was wrong and i would say would go a long way in turning people off feminism. Men must know their place after all.

midlandsmissus · 13-05-2017 02:39PM

anna080 wrote: »

Why does it feel like everywhere I look on social media, there's some annoying twat bleating on about men and oppression. I get that this isn't a new phenomenon, but imo it's worse now more than ever. "Feminists" have given themselves authority on male social standing, and I feel they see everything now through a lense of male authority. Everything is sexist, misogynistic, and due to the patriarchy.
And have set the goal posts on what men can and cannot be offended by.

What was once an expression of female humanity, seeking to free itself from male authority and thus promote equality of the sexes- has been transformed into female superiority. And pissing men off seems to now to the bread and butter of femisnism.

Many women, myself included, have had awful experiences with men. Sure, there are men out there who are assholes, and there are women out there who are assholes- assholes don't tend to be gender specific.
I am just so sick of this toxic femisnism- it's everywhere, and it's annoying.

Secured in the notion of a "rape culture" is the stipulation that considers all men to be rapists. I do not want to live in a society which sees my brother, father, and boyfriend as rapists. This rape culture theory disgusts me. Something needs to happen as it's a seriously damaging supposition and one that I do not subscribe to.

But to oppose of such an unfair concept means I'm betraying women apparently, and denouncing my gender. I've been called a Man's Rights Activist because I oppose certain views. I'm not a MRA,(or am I? Who knows) but if I was, is that meant to be an insult? I don't get it. Do men not have rights that need advocating as well? Or is it always just women whom are treated unfairly/oppressed/exploited?

TLDR: I Men

I wonder why some men are physically, sexually and emotionally violent to women, a gender that is physically weaker than them.

It would be like women being physically, sexually and emotionally violent to children.

You may be happy with the current standard of things but I won't be happy until we live in a world free of abuse of women and men.

Yourself isit · 13-05-2017 02:39PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Whats worse is i believe on average in Ireland the gender pay gap only becomes an issue when a women has children. After that lifestyle choices impact on the pay gap, but up until that point they are paid equally or better than male counter parts.

More so than that look at all the positive discrimination of late which in my eyes is sexism but as its aimed at men it doesnt matter. If your a female entrepreneur you can get a nice juicy grant from enterprise Ireland but male you may sling your hook.

Wherever gender privilege remaining is dwarfed by class privilege.

Yourself isit · 13-05-2017 02:42PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I wonder why some men are physically, sexually and emotionally violent to women, a gender that is physically weaker than them.

It would be like women being physically, sexually and emotionally violent to children.

You may be happy with the current standard of things but I won't be happy until we live in a world free of abuse of women and men.

Women are violent to men. They are just physically weaker.

You want a world without violence? Won't happen.

Calhoun · 13-05-2017 02:43PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Wherever gender privilege remaining is dwarfed by class privilege.

For sure but thats a double edged sword, being a certain class in Ireland will open doors for you, being another will mean you can pretty much commit some fairly heinous crimes and get away with it because you have a sob story to tell.

pjohnson · 13-05-2017 02:44PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I wonder why some men are physically, sexually and emotionally violent to women, a gender that is physically weaker than them.

It would be like women being physically, sexually and emotionally violent to children.

You may be happy with the current standard of things but I won't be happy until we live in a world free of abuse of women and men.

Let me guess. Your one of the lot that doesn't believe men can be raped?

cloudatlas · 13-05-2017 02:44PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Your first two posts show your true intent and feelings on the matter, you would rather it not be discussed and dismissed out of hand.

I thought most were aware of the self pro-claimed feminist in the rubber bandit who was saying that lost suicidal young men only need to look to feminism to help them out.

You know exactly what i mean, there are male feminists who are in it for one reason only. When they finally get rejected enough more than likely will turn into hardliners for the other side.

I don't think you get it at all, if this was a discussion where we wanted to talk about equality and we put everything on the table then fine. You cannot in one breath call me a potential rapist but then in another want me to work with you.

The feminist agenda as many have pointed out in other threads is to push for female rights, not equal rights. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.

Yes my true intent is that we should challenge the current institutional power structures together, I keep repeating that. Also I am engaging, I'm posting rigghttt now... My opinion is not unusual, it is normal amongst my female collegues, friends, family, don't need twitter to tell me otherwise.I read through the 'louise o'neill' thread that's why I knew this one would be a carbon copy of that thread and it has been, no divergent discussion.

No actually I haven't heard of these so called 'white night' feminist men who are just trying to ingratiate themselves with women but it sounds like that is what you want to be the case.

If you have a core belief system i.e we should all be equal then nobody would deter you from that, you shouldn't seek permission from someone to believe something you simply see the imbalance in society and acknowledge it. Stating that we better not strive for equality because women will somehow gain supremacy is funny, I severely doubt that, that's not the society I've been born into. Maybe in a sci-fi novel. It's akin to a Daily Mail type argument.

Well then don't engage with a woman who calls you a 'potential rapist'.

midlandsmissus · 13-05-2017 02:44PM

Ive heard a man say 'women are just for sex'.
I've heard a man say, 'of course men keep women down, would you give up that power'
I've heard a man say, ' why are women nice to men when they treat women like dirt'.
I've heard a man say, 'if you knew what men say about women you would never talk to us again'
I have seen women cry from rape.

We do not have to live in a world of abuse.

The first thing to to is be stronger.

I want more for our daughters.

midlandsmissus · 13-05-2017 02:45PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I wonder why some men are physically, sexually and emotionally violent to women, a gender that is physically weaker than them.

It would be like women being physically, sexually and emotionally violent to children.

You may be happy with the current standard of things but I won't be happy until we live in a world free of abuse of women and men.

Women are violent to men. They are just physically weaker.

You want a world without violence? Won't happen.

I've never been violent to anyone.

pjohnson · 13-05-2017 02:49PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Ive heard a man say 'women are just for sex'.
I've heard a man say, 'of course men keep women down, would you give up that power'
I've heard a man say, ' why are women nice to men when they treat women like dirt'.
I've heard a man say, 'if you knew what men say about women you would never talk to us again'
I have seen women cry from rape.

We do not have to live in a world of abuse.

The first thing to to is be stronger.

I want more for our daughters.

What if you have a son? Will the first thing you do make him weaker?

Sounds like equality. Not our children. Just the daughters.

pjohnson · 13-05-2017 02:50PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

My opinion is not unusual, it is normal amongst my female collegues, friends, family,

no males?

Why are we hating all the men?

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