Why are we hating all the men?

eviltwin

Social media is for chumps. If you think any of the mad ranters are representative of society as a whole you're wrong. And you're worse to give them oxygen, it just makes them think their views have validity or relevance.

midlandsmissus

anna080 wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except that "rape culture" is actually described as a culture which normalises or trivialises sexual assault/rape. It doesn't assume that all men are rapists but aims to point out everyday actions which occur that were once passed off as playful or expected of men and aims to reclassify them since they can be sexually threatening but due to "rape culture" where actually considered normal.

I'm aware of what it is- we still don't live in one. Our society doesn't trivialise rape.

Says the statistics Anna. We have one of the lowest convictions of rape in Europe.

'Our society doesn't trivialise rape'.
What about all the children raped by the Catholic church?
What about all the women who were raped who were put into Magdelene laundries?
What about the heinously poor rape conviction rate we have to this day!

Please! Ireland is mayor of trivialising rape and brushing it under the carpet.

Calhoun

cloudatlas wrote: »

Yes my true intent is that we should challenge the current institutional power structures together, I keep repeating that. Also I am engaging, I'm posting rigghttt now... My opinion is not unusual, it is normal amongst my female collegues, friends, family, don't need twitter to tell me otherwise.I read through the 'louise o'neill' thread that's why I knew this one would be a carbon copy of that thread and it has been, no divergent discussion.

No actually I haven't heard of these so called 'white night' feminist men who are just trying to ingratiate themselves with women but it sounds like that is what you want to be the case.

If you have a core belief system i.e we should all be equal then nobody would deter you from that, you shouldn't seek permission from someone to believe something you simply see the imbalance in society and acknowledge it. Stating that we better not strive for equality because women will somehow gain supremacy is funny, I severely doubt that, that's not the society I've been born into. Maybe in a sci-fi novel. It's akin to a Daily Mail type argument.

Well then don't engage with a woman who calls you a 'potential rapist'.

I dont know what you mean by your opinion being shared amongst your female colleagues, i am not sure what that is relevant to. The reason i feel it hasnt changed much is because its discussing similar subject matter i dont read through the LON thread as its so large its hard to keep up.

I think most on this forum would know the white knight hero im speaking about but lets move on. Not sure why you only picked up on that though am i hitting close to home?

I am not saying that we better not strive for equality because woman will gain supremacy, that is what the hardline feminist themselves are saying. You must live in a nice little bubble where identity politics dont exist or you choose to ignore.

When you have the like of LON and the many other media bloggers going on about the rape culture in Ireland you are going to get people just disengaging on mass with the Feminist agenda no matter how moderate.

Calhoun

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Ive heard a man say 'women are just for sex'.
I've heard a man say, 'of course men keep women down, would you give up that power'
I've heard a man say, ' why are women nice to men when they treat women like dirt'.
I've heard a man say, 'if you knew what men say about women you would never talk to us again'
I have seen women cry from rape.

We do not have to live in a world of abuse.


The first thing to to is be stronger.

I want more for our daughters.

Aren't you the same person who recently said that denial of sex was some sort of emotional abuse?

pjohnson

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Says the statistics Anna. We have one of the lowest convictions of rape in Europe.

'Our society doesn't trivialise rape'.
What about all the children raped by the Catholic church?
What about all the women who were raped who were put into Magdelene laundries?
What about the heinously poor rape conviction rate we have to this day!

Please! Ireland is mayor of trivialising rape and brushing it under the carpet.

You complain about trivalising rape yet you posted this classic

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Is sex, where the man orgasms, and doesn´t attempt to make the woman orgasm: Abusive sex?

If you have to ask something like that

midlandsmissus

Calhoun wrote: »

I did engage I wrote a massive post on it. I couldn't understand your first paragraph ' they need feminism as the are suicidal but then telling them they are default racists' 'male white night'. What does this mean, it's very garbled. Is this something you've gleaned from twitter or infantile posts social forums?

Your first two posts show your true intent and feelings on the matter, you would rather it not be discussed and dismissed out of hand.

I thought most were aware of the self pro-claimed feminist in the rubber bandit who was saying that lost suicidal young men only need to look to feminism to help them out.

You know exactly what i mean, there are male feminists who are in it for one reason only. When they finally get rejected enough more than likely will turn into hardliners for the other side.

'You want to talk about equality fine by me but don't tell me that a belief system that has been taken over for the most part by hardliners who don't want equality is good for me'.

I'm not telling you that. I think men are threatened by the way things are discussed because it comes across as patronizing, nobody likes to be told 'the way you've been doing things is wrong you have to change' and from that perspective I see your point but many of the posts aren't just anti this form of discourse they are also anti the message, this is a moral question and we have to face it, if I was you and you do want to support change I wouldn't be put off by a twitter video for example because the core idea stays the same and threads like this try to distract from the moral discussion. Saying 'I dislike louise O'neill's way of speaking about equality so I don't want equality' is silly. Although I do agree the patronising element can be off putting the overall message stays the same, the fact that our institutions support power structures that exclude women is a problem.

I don't think you get it at all, if this was a discussion where we wanted to talk about equality and we put everything on the table then fine. You cannot in one breath call me a potential rapist but then in another want me to work with you.

The feminist agenda as many have pointed out in other threads is to push for female rights, not equal rights. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.

Why shouldn't we push for female rights? Males have traditionally abused power in the past. You can't deny that this has existed. In every other case of oppression, it took the oppressed to push for more rights for it to stop
Why would the ones in power ever feel the need to change? They're having power and fun.
Martin Luther King had to push for coloured people's rights. Women are doing the same for themselves.

midlandsmissus

Calhoun wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Ive heard a man say 'women are just for sex'.
I've heard a man say, 'of course men keep women down, would you give up that power'
I've heard a man say, ' why are women nice to men when they treat women like dirt'.
I've heard a man say, 'if you knew what men say about women you would never talk to us again'
I have seen women cry from rape.

We do not have to live in a world of abuse.


The first thing to to is be stronger.

I want more for our daughters.

Aren't you the same person who recently said that denial of sex was some sort of emotional abuse?

No.

pjohnson

midlandsmissus wrote: »

No.

midlandsmissus

pjohnson wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Says the statistics Anna. We have one of the lowest convictions of rape in Europe.

'Our society doesn't trivialise rape'.
What about all the children raped by the Catholic church?
What about all the women who were raped who were put into Magdelene laundries?
What about the heinously poor rape conviction rate we have to this day!

Please! Ireland is mayor of trivialising rape and brushing it under the carpet.

You complain about trivalising rape yet you posted this classic

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Is sex, where the man orgasms, and doesn´t attempt to make the woman orgasm: Abusive sex?

If you have to ask something like that

I stand by that statement. Sex where one person gets pleasure and gives the other none, is abusive sex. What is your issue with this?

Calhoun

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why shouldn't we push for female rights? Males have traditionally abused power in the past. You can't deny that this has existed. In every other case of oppression, it took the oppressed to push for more rights for it to stop
Why would the ones in power ever feel the need to change? They're having power and fun.
Martin Luther King had to push for coloured people's rights. Women are doing the same for themselves.

Exactly you can push for your own rights all you like but don't tell me you are doing it in the interest of men when your not.

RobertKK

I find a lot of these men hating types end up blocking me on twitter because they can't handle a man having an opinion that is not in line with their views, a lot want an echo chamber.

midlandsmissus

pjohnson wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

No.

I didnt say that. Do a small bit of reading and you'll see who's just made that up out of nowhere.

pjohnson

midlandsmissus wrote: »

No.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I stand by that statement. Sex where one person gets pleasure and gives the other none, is abusive sex. What is your issue with this?

It seems contradictory

pjohnson

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I didnt say that. Do a small bit of reading and you'll see who's just made that up out of nowhere.

So is the below post a different midlandmissus?

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Is sex, where the man orgasms, and doesn´t attempt to make the woman orgasm: Abusive sex?

Wibbs

Here we go...

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Says the statistics Anna.

Certainly more reliable than going on feelings and imaginings.

'Our society doesn't trivialise rape'.
What about all the children raped by the Catholic church?
What about all the women who were raped who were put into Magdelene laundries?

The vast majority of Irish people today are horrified and ashamed and angry about those times and the church in this country fell off a cliff in attendance and influence since the 80's. Check your calendar. We're in the 21st century.

What about the heinously poor rape conviction rate we have to this day!

Here's a thought, sure we have a way to ago as far as handling of the crime(just like everywhere else and better than many), but just maybe these rates are partly down to the fact that as a civilised society we respect the rule of law, rather than the twitterati mob and presume innocence before guilt and evidence worked out in a court of law.

Oh and in before the "what about the village who turned out to shake the hand of a rapist". The entire country was aghast about that. Rightfully.

No.

... but close. I quote:

Yourself. Previously. wrote:

Is sex, where the man orgasms, and doesn?t attempt to make the woman orgasm: Abusive sex?

No would have been the right answer there alright.

I stand by that statement. Sex where one person gets pleasure and gives the other none, is abusive sex. What is your issue with this?

Lats time I checked women could speak and express their desires and needs. If anyone chooses to remain dumb on a subject, particularly one like sexual gratification, then the fault lies with them. Oh sorry I forgot, women can't be at fault according to the Tumblr "feminists", always the agentless victims of Men(tm). And that's my issue with that nonsense.

Why shouldn't we push for female rights?

Again check your calendar. 21st century in a Western liberal democracy. Outside of the ongoing abortion debate, name one right in Ireland that is barred to Irish women.

Martin Luther King had to push for coloured people's rights

"Coloured people"? Really? Yep I really would check that calendar, before the irony hits overload proportions.

midlandsmissus

pjohnson wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I didnt say that. Do a small bit of reading and you'll see who's just made that up out of nowhere.

So is the below post a different midlandmissus?

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Is sex, where the man orgasms, and doesn´t attempt to make the woman orgasm: Abusive sex?

He said 'denial of sex, (refusal of sex) equals emotional abuse.

I think youll find, I did not say that.

Outlaw Pete

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I wonder why some men are physically, sexually and emotionally violent to women, a gender that is physically weaker than them.

It would be like women being physically, sexually and emotionally violent to children.

That makes no sense... for a few reasons.

Firstly, you condemn men for being "emotionally violent to women" and pose the question 'Why, given that men are physically stronger?' but what has physical strength got to do with 'emotional' abuse? Secondly, women are equally as emotionally abusive to men, something I don't think you appreciate and thirdly: women do physically, sexually and emotionally abuse children, and so why speak about it in a tone which suggests that wouldn't happen??

As for why do men "physically and sexual" abuse women (which I appreciate size has a relevance) well, for the same reasons they physically attack and rape other men that are weaker than them I guess, cause they're scum.

But why do women attack and abuse other women? Wouldn't that be for similar reasons?

You seem to imply also that attacks and abuse are justified if the victim is bigger (given that you only seem to be bothered if the victim is smaller) but that's flawed thinking given that:

More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals

About two in five of all victims of domestic violence are men, contradicting the widespread impression that it is almost always women who are left battered and bruised, a new report claims.

Men assaulted by their partners are often ignored by police, see their attacker go free and have far fewer refuges to flee to than women, says a study by the men's rights campaign group Parity.

The charity's analysis of statistics on domestic violence shows the number of men attacked by wives or girlfriends is much higher than thought. Its report, Domestic Violence: The Male Perspective, states: "Domestic violence is often seen as a female victim/male perpetrator problem, but the evidence demonstrates that this is a false picture."

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

Similar or slightly larger numbers of men were subjected to severe force in an incident with their partner, according to the same documents. The figure stood at 48.6% in 2006-07, 48.3% the next year and 37.5% in 2008-09, Home Office statistics show.

The 2008-09 bulletin states: "More than one in four women (28%) and around one in six men (16%) had experienced domestic abuse since the age of 16. These figures are equivalent to an estimated 4.5 million female victims of domestic abuse and 2.6 million male victims."

In addition, "6% of women and 4% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse in the past year, equivalent to an estimated one million female victims of domestic abuse and 600,000 male victims".

Campaigners claim that men are often treated as "second-class victims" and that many police forces and councils do not take them seriously. "Male victims are almost invisible to the authorities such as the police, who rarely can be prevailed upon to take the man's side," said John Mays of Parity. "Their plight is largely overlooked by the media, in official reports and in government policy, for example in the provision of refuge places – 7,500 for females in England and Wales but only 60 for men."

The official figures underestimate the true number of male victims, Mays said. "Culturally it's difficult for men to bring these incidents to the attention of the authorities. Men are reluctant to say that they've been abused by women, because it's seen as unmanly and weak."

The number of women prosecuted for domestic violence rose from 1,575 in 2004-05 to 4,266 in 2008-09. "Both men and women can be victims and we know that men feel under immense pressure to keep up the pretence that everything is OK," said Alex Neil, the housing and communities minister in the Scottish parliament. "Domestic abuse against a man is just as abhorrent as when a woman is the victim."

Mountainsandh

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why shouldn't we push for female rights?
...
Martin Luther King had to push for coloured people's rights. Women are doing the same for themselves.

Women have done so since the start of last century, and have pretty much triumphed in Western developed countries in my opinion. Some fine tuning and maintenance is needed of course, but really, we have it good I think, and I'm a woman.

drugstore cowboy

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Martin Luther King had to push for coloured people's rights. Women are doing the same for themselves.

African Americans in that era had it a wee bit tougher than western women do in 2017.

"Coloured" oh deary me!!!

infogiver

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I stand by that statement. Sex where one person gets pleasure and gives the other none, is abusive sex. What is your issue with this?

1.After how many hours of foreplay and stimulus is it safe for one partner to say " I'm really tired and I'd like to lie down and go to sleep " without being accused of being abusive?
2. I assume in a lesbian liaison the same criteria applies, also in a heterosexual liaison where the woman has climaxed and turned over to go to sleep leaving the man unfinished? Or is it only abuse if it's heterosexual and the woman is unsatisfied?

infogiver

drugstore cowboy wrote: »

African Americans in that era had it a wee bit tougher than western women do in 2017.

"Coloured" oh deary me!!!

Indeed, coloured.
Also it seems that if your boyfriend falls asleep before you've orgasmed then he's no better then a 18th century plantation slave owner in Mississippi.
Worse possibly.

Arne_Saknussem

infogiver wrote: »

1.After how many hours of foreplay and stimulus is it safe for one partner to say " I'm really tired and I'd like to lie down and go to sleep " without being accused of being abusive?
2. I assume in a lesbian liaison the same criteria applies, also in a heterosexual liaison where the woman has climaxed and turned over to go to sleep leaving the man unfinished? Or is it only abuse if it's heterosexual and the woman is unsatisfied?

When a man does(or doesn't do) something, it's abuse.

infogiver

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

When a man does(or doesn't do) something, it's abuse.

I think if a man is breathing it's possibly abuse.

Baron Kurtz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJJdkZVMig

midlandsmissus

infogiver wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I stand by that statement. Sex where one person gets pleasure and gives the other none, is abusive sex. What is your issue with this?

1.After how many hours of foreplay and stimulus is it safe for one partner to say " I'm really tired and I'd like to lie down and go to sleep " without being accused of being abusive?
2. I assume in a lesbian liaison the same criteria applies, also in a heterosexual liaison where the woman has climaxed and turned over to go to sleep leaving the man unfinished? Or is it only abuse if it's heterosexual and the woman is unsatisfied?

I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?

You hear of so many women who feel used after sex.

Its not what sex was meant to be like, where both people were meant to get pleasure.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I wonder why some men are physically, sexually and emotionally violent to women, a gender that is physically weaker than them.

It would be like women being physically, sexually and emotionally violent to children.

You may be happy with the current standard of things but I won't be happy until we live in a world free of abuse of women and men.

What about the men who are living in fear of women who are physically and emotionally violent towards them? There's such a stigma for them to come forward, it's almost like they are handing in their man card admitting they're being abused. What about women abusing other women? Women abusing kids and elderly people? Haven't seen any articles about men being filmed in crèches or nursing homes abusing the vulnerable appearing on prime time. Women aren't all the shrinking delicate flowers youre painting them as. Women aren't perpetually victims. Men and women are equally capable of being bad bastards it's not exclusive to males

Yourself isit

Yourself isit wrote: »

You need better friends.

anna080 wrote: »

Ya. Your friends are assholes. Have you never heard a woman say "I'd ride it til it fell off"?

Um...who said I heard it from friends?

And a woman who uses that language is also also wallowing in that culture, and is no better.

Brendan Bendar

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?

You hear of so many women who feel used after sex.

Its not what sex was meant to be like, where both people were meant to get pleasure.

Communication is your friend,missus.

Don't accept the wand like water buffalo lying there, communicate your wishes.

Bound to be a better outcome.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Ive heard a man say 'women are just for sex'.
I've heard a man say, 'of course men keep women down, would you give up that power'
I've heard a man say, ' why are women nice to men when they treat women like dirt'.
I've heard a man say, 'if you knew what men say about women you would never talk to us again'
I have seen women cry from rape.

We do not have to live in a world of abuse.


The first thing to to is be stronger.

I want more for our daughters.

What about women marrying for money? Women referring to men as sperm donors? Women striking men and expecting a free pass as men shouldn't hit back or defend themselves? Men on the receiving end of the threat of being a rapist if he pisses off a dangerous woman?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?

You hear of so many women who feel used after sex.

Its not what sex was meant to be like, where both people were meant to get pleasure.

We've all had bad sex. Simple solution: don't sleep with him again