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Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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    #2582
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    A bus that used to go Dawson St, Suffolk St, Church Lane, Bank, Westmoreland St, O'Connell St now gets delayed in the Luas works on Dawson St, has to swing around via Trinity, Westland Row, and Pearse St, get stuck again at the busgate crossover at College Green, and is then in oft-gridlocked single lane traffic all the way from Westmoreland St to Parnell Sq.
    imo the additional time is closer to 40/45 minutes than the 5/10 you suggest.

    Maybe 20 mins at the most I found it a bit longer but not by a huge amount. 45 mins is definitely an exaggeration if it was taking that long it'd get out and walk thats how long it takes on average to get from my house into town by bus and I certainly dont believe its doubling journey time.

    I do believe its an inconvenience and now track laying is complete they should be going back on their normal route.


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    #2583
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Really? No disruption?

    It may not be obvious to you, but it is blindingly obvious to anyone who uses a bus through the city centre.

    Also many routes passing through the city centre have had to have their running times (end to end journey times) extended (and therefore require additional buses) to maintain the existing timetable - those are buses that could have been used to increase frequency or operate new routes, but the delays arising from the black hole that is College Green have meant they have been used to shore up the existing timetable.

    That won't be obvious to you, but I can assure you that's what has happened.

    The journey times through the LUAS works area are completely variable from one day to the next, and most days it is incredibly slow.

    Did you read my post where did I say it wasn't causing any distruption. What I was trying to say is the severity of the disruption is exaggerated. Thats the only somewhat major distruption there has been and its not effecting all routes. Also if your saying there could extra capacity on routes effected by the disruption and new routes created why weren't they put in place before the diversions were in place

    I will agree with you that the disruption is un predictable on a day to day basis. But its not as awful as people are making out.


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    #2584
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,578 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Did you read my post where did I say it wasn't causing any distruption. What I was trying to say is the severity of the disruption is exaggerated. Thats the only somewhat major distruption there has been and its not effecting all routes. Also if your saying there could extra capacity on routes effected by the disruption and new routes created why weren't they put in place before the diversions were in place

    I will agree with you that the disruption is un predictable on a day to day basis. But its not as awful as people are making out.

    I'm clearly going to have to explain this in more detail.

    The Dublin Bus fleet was reduced due to the economic crash during the period around the implementation of Network Direct. There were no spare buses in the fleet for new services.

    When funding was finally made available for fleet expansion, all of the new buses that arrived had to be used to shore up the service on cross-city routes that have been disrupted by the LUAS works, and to reduce the high level of cancellations and curtailments that were taking place. That was simply to maintain the existing service.

    A significant number of vehicles have had to be used to keep the existing service going rather than increase frequency or introduce new routes. That is the extent of the disruption - sure it's not obvious to you as the timetable didn't change, but the rosters behind it have and we still have significant delays every day.

    Now I can't see any other suitable word to describe that level of disruption other than significant.

    You clearly aren't using any bus route coming along the Quays in the morning peak - if you were, I think you might revise your opinion. A commuter reports the bus taking 35 minutes from Conyngham Road to the Ha'penny bridge elsewhere on boards due to the knock-on effects of the works. That trip shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes maximum.


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    #2585
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I'm clearly going to have to explain this in more detail.

    The Dublin Bus fleet was reduced due to the economic crash during the period around the implementation of Network Direct. There were no spare buses in the fleet for new services.

    When funding was finally made available for fleet expansion, all of the new buses that arrived had to be used to shore up the service on cross-city routes that have been disrupted by the LUAS works, and to reduce the high level of cancellations and curtailments that were taking place. That was simply to maintain the existing service.

    A significant number of vehicles have had to be used to keep the existing service going rather than increase frequency or introduce new routes. That is the extent of the disruption - sure it's not obvious to you as the timetable didn't change, but the rosters behind it have and we still have significant delays every day.

    Now I can't see any other suitable word to describe that level of disruption other than significant.

    You clearly aren't using any bus route coming along the Quays in the morning peak - if you were, I think you might revise your opinion.

    Significant for Dublin Bus but not as much for the commuter. I thought the main problem with the Quays is the fact buses cannot overtake each without going into a lane of traffic so thats why theyre planning double up on the bus lanes.


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    #2586
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,578 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Significant for Dublin Bus but not as much for the commuter. I thought the main problem with the Quays is the fact buses cannot overtake each without going into a lane of traffic so thats why theyre planning double up on the bus lanes.

    I don't think that you really get this.

    The end to end journey time on most cross-city routes has had to be extended to cover the delays caused by LUAS works. Bus journeys were being cancelled or curtailed in the city centre due to buses running late. The revised longer journey times affect everyone. It has also meant additional resources being required.

    That's impacting both customers as large numbers of journeys were being cancelled or curtailed and now journey times are scheduled to take longer.

    The doubling-up of the bus lane on the Quays is to cope with all the additional buses that are going to be re-routed along them when College Green closes to through traffic to/from Dame Street.


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    #2587
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I don't think that you really get this.

    The end to end journey time on most cross-city routes has had to be extended to cover the delays caused by LUAS works. Bus journeys were being cancelled or curtailed in the city centre due to buses running late. The revised longer journey times affect everyone. It has also meant additional resources being required.

    That's impacting both customers as large numbers of journeys were being cancelled or curtailed and now journey times are scheduled to take longer.

    The doubling-up of the bus lane on the Quays is to cope with all the additional buses that are going to be re-routed along them when College Green closes to through traffic to/from Dame Street.

    Yes I do understand I just think the severity of it is exgarated. The bus service to get into town I use is more or less the same frequency wise as before the Luas CC works and is one of the effected routes by the Suffolk Street diversion.

    Anyway when will buses be back using Suffolk street.


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    #2588
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,578 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Yes I do understand I just think the severity of it is exgarated. The bus service to get into town I use is more or less the same frequency wise as before the Luas CC works and is one of the effected routes by the Suffolk Street diversion.

    Anyway when will buses be back using Suffolk street.

    Well with respect you may not be seeing the effects of the disruption as much as others - I can only tell you that it is significant.

    If you don't want to believe that, that's up to you. But I've gone through significant periods of buses not showing up, having to get off in the city on a cross-city bus, and my journey times have increased, all down to the LUAS works.

    Buses won't be going back to Suffolk Street at all.

    Any traffic changes won't happen until the Autumn.


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    #2589
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Well with respect you may not be seeing the effects of the disruption as much as others - I can only tell you that it is significant.

    If you don't want to believe that, that's up to you. But I've gone through significant periods of buses not showing up, having to get off in the city on a cross-city bus, and my journey times have increased, all down to the LUAS works.

    Buses won't be going back to Suffolk Street at all.

    Any traffic changes won't happen until the Autumn.

    So is Suffolk going to be pedestrianised with paving now or are they going to just leave as is.

    In fairness buses getting cancelled and not showing up has been happening since long before the luas cc works. Yes there has been distruption and increased journey times but I find that Suffolk Street distruption only adds an extra 5-10 mins which isnt hugely significant.


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    #2590
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,578 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So is Suffolk going to be pedestrianised with paving now or are they going to just leave as is.
    We don't know.


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    #2591
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Anyone who thinks that Metro North or Dart Underground would cause less disruption than Luas Cross City is living in cloud cuckoo land


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    #2592
    jamo2oo9
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that Metro North or Dart Underground would cause less disruption than Luas Cross City is living in cloud cuckoo land

    How so? It would have sites at places where the stops will be in the city centre. I'm not familiar with the entire underground metro construction but a few access site for the tunnel boring machine is needed and those can be placed outside the city. In the city, it would be just basically a construction site where the stop will be?


    I can't see why it would cause more disruption that LUAS cross-city works.


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    #2593
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that Metro North or Dart Underground would cause less disruption than Luas Cross City is living in cloud cuckoo land

    I couldn't give a damn what disruption it takes to get them built.


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    #2594
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I couldn't give a damn what disruption it takes to get them built.

    I dont why everyone thinks mn and du should be built. Firstly MN isint even going to be a proper metro as you may know it in other rather its going to be another light rail system basically a luas on steroids and not a proper full on metro running on a heavy rail system. DU is a bit of a joke as its going to be running from Pearse to Hueston which if you get off at Connolly can be done by Luas.


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    #2595
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,542 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I dont why everyone thinks mn and du should be built. Firstly MN isint even going to be a proper metro as you may know it in other rather its going to be another light rail system basically a luas on steroids and not a proper full on metro running on a heavy rail system. DU is a bit of a joke as its going to be running from Pearse to Hueston which if you get off at Connolly can be done by Luas.

    Seriously, just go and read the threads about these two projects if you really don't understand why people think MN and DU should be built, because this just seems so close to trolling otherwise.


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    #2596
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I dont why everyone thinks mn and du should be built. Firstly MN isint even going to be a proper metro as you may know it in other rather its going to be another light rail system basically a luas on steroids and not a proper full on metro running on a heavy rail system. DU is a bit of a joke as its going to be running from Pearse to Hueston which if you get off at Connolly can be done by Luas.

    Either that's a troll comment about DU or else you don't know the full extent of the scheme.

    Whatever the case, DU and MN can be discussed in their own threads please


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    #2597
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,258 ✭✭✭markpb


    jamo2oo9 wrote:
    I can't see why it would cause more disruption that LUAS cross-city works.

    There would be giant holes in the ground at every station site. Not like the current roadworks are one or two lanes wide, these would be more like the DPT compounds at Whitehall and OTR. There would be hundreds of trucks per day moving excavated material out of the city centre. Spot sites would close all along the route to allow for ground preparation works.


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    #2598
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    markpb wrote: »
    There would be giant holes in the ground at every station site. Not like the current roadworks are one or two lanes wide, these would be more like the DPT compounds at Whitehall and OTR. There would be hundreds of trucks per day moving excavated material out of the city centre. Spot sites would close all along the route to allow for ground preparation works.

    Short term pain for long term gain.

    Instead we prefer to go:

    Short term gain for long term pain.


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    #2599
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,542 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Short term paid for long term gain.

    Instead we prefer to go:

    Short term gain for long term pain.

    We should be building all 3 of BXD, DU, and MN, this shouldn't be a one or the other situation.


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    #2600
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    MJohnston wrote: »
    We should be building all 3 of BXD, DU, and MN, this shouldn't be a one or the other situation.

    Of course.


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    #2601
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that Metro North or Dart Underground would cause less disruption than Luas Cross City is living in cloud cuckoo land
    Metro and DARTu are deep bore constructions. All the construction is to be underground save for the station portals and the cut and cover out in Ballymun.


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    #2602
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I dont why everyone thinks mn and du should be built. Firstly MN isint even going to be a proper metro as you may know it in other rather its going to be another light rail system basically a luas on steroids and not a proper full on metro running on a heavy rail system. DU is a bit of a joke as its going to be running from Pearse to Hueston which if you get off at Connolly can be done by Luas.

    are you trolling?


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    #2603
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Consonata


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that Metro North or Dart Underground would cause less disruption than Luas Cross City is living in cloud cuckoo land

    Building an unsegragated transport network, whilst keeping transport moving is far far faaaaaaaar more difficult than building a tunnel, and it takes a lot longer. If MN ever broke ground, I could see it taking 3/4s the time it took to build BXD. Maybe even less.


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    #2604
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    markpb wrote: »
    There would be giant holes in the ground at every station site. Not like the current roadworks are one or two lanes wide, these would be more like the DPT compounds at Whitehall and OTR. There would be hundreds of trucks per day moving excavated material out of the city centre. Spot sites would close all along the route to allow for ground preparation works.

    Looking at the Crossrail numbers the tunnel boring moved at about 14 metres per day per machine.
    I doubt that would need hundreds of trucks per day to remove material. Dozens maybe.


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    #2605
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Consonata


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Looking at the Crossrail numbers the tunnel boring moved at about 14 metres per day per machine.
    I doubt that would need hundreds of trucks per day to remove material. Dozens maybe.

    Exactly, and thats for Crossrail, probably the biggest infrastructural project this decade.


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    #2606
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Consonata wrote: »
    Building an unsegragated transport network, whilst keeping transport moving is far far faaaaaaaar more difficult than building a tunnel, and it takes a lot longer. If MN ever broke ground, I could see it taking 3/4s the time it took to build BXD. Maybe even less.

    I'm sorry, but are you really suggesting that placing a station box under O'Connell Bridge will be less disruptive to the city centre than Luas Cross City? Honestly, some people on this forum have been drinking the MN cool-aid


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    #2607
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but are you really suggesting that placing a station box under O'Connell Bridge will be less disruptive to the city centre than Luas Cross City? Honestly, some people on this forum have been drinking the MN cool-aid

    Station boxes were to be located in the existing central reserve of O'Connell ST and on the newly widened footpath of Westmoreland St. 'new metro north' will have station box at an as of yet unknown location, either way, yes it'd b less disruptive by a considerable margin.


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    #2608
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Station boxes were to be located in the existing central reserve of O'Connell ST and on the newly widened footpath of Westmoreland St. 'new metro north' will have station box at an as of yet unknown location, either way, yes it'd b less disruptive by a considerable margin.

    Are you sure?

    417185.jpg


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    #2609
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Consonata


    monument wrote: »
    Are you sure?

    417185.jpg

    Not going to lie, the fact that plans exist and weren't implemented saddens me even more


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    #2610
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Consonata wrote: »
    Not going to lie, the fact that plans exist and weren't implemented saddens me even more

    I'm open to correction, but, as far as I am aware, Metro North had full planning permission when the Government decided to kick it down the road (aka revise the plans).

    As far as I'm aware, it also still has full planning permission.


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    #2611
    Avada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭Avada


    monument wrote: »
    I'm open to correction, but, as far as I am aware, Metro North had full planning permission when the Government decided to kick it down the road (aka revise the plans).

    As far as I'm aware, it also still has full planning permission.

    It has a railway order valid to 2021 as far as I remember


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