Aviation Maintenance salaries

lufties · 06-05-2017 10:01am #1

Hi all, not sure if this is under the right topic for discussions but I'll go ahead anyway.
Having recently returned to Ireland as a Licensed Engineer, Im shocked by how low the salaries are, it seems the recession has hit hard and various companies have exploited people as a result.
In Shannon I've heard of an MRO offering less than 30k for B1 engineers. I'm not sure about Dublin but I know EI certainly doesn't pay well. There literally seems to be nothing decent out there, unless you get into leasing and devote your life to hotel visits.
Sad state of affairs, being a tradesman would be far more rewarding it seems.

Bussywussy · 06-05-2017 11:41am

lufties wrote: »

Hi all, not sure if this is under the right topic for discussions but I'll go ahead anyway.
Having recently returned to Ireland as a Licensed Engineer, Im shocked by how low the salaries are, it seems the recession has hit hard and various companies have exploited people as a result.
In Shannon I've heard of an MRO offering less than 30k for B1 engineers. I'm not sure about Dublin but I know EI certainly doesn't pay well. There literally seems to be nothing decent out there, unless you get into leasing and devote your life to hotel visits.
Sad state of affairs, being a tradesman would be far more rewarding it seems.

MRO in dub similar to Shannon,that place seemed to be the catalyst for it....prying on ppl jobless after SRT shut...Boeing and Delta pay well, other than that not sure about ryanair,etihad or stobart or the crowd who took over aviacare.direct I think they're called.
EI post 2010 joiners isn't great,loads have left and heard they're seriously depleted,especially with new aircraft and I saw a facebook video boasting of 200 new cabin crew and other departments expanding yet no new engineers,sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Contracting or uprooting to go abroad is the only game it seems.

lufties · 06-05-2017 3:55pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

Hi all, not sure if this is under the right topic for discussions but I'll go ahead anyway.
Having recently returned to Ireland as a Licensed Engineer, Im shocked by how low the salaries are, it seems the recession has hit hard and various companies have exploited people as a result.
In Shannon I've heard of an MRO offering less than 30k for B1 engineers. I'm not sure about Dublin but I know EI certainly doesn't pay well. There literally seems to be nothing decent out there, unless you get into leasing and devote your life to hotel visits.
Sad state of affairs, being a tradesman would be far more rewarding it seems.

MRO in dub similar to Shannon,that place seemed to be the catalyst for it....prying on ppl jobless after SRT shut...Boeing and Delta pay well, other than that not sure about ryanair,etihad or stobart or the crowd who took over aviacare.direct I think they're called.
EI post 2010 joiners isn't great,loads have left and heard they're seriously depleted,especially with new aircraft and I saw a facebook video boasting of 200 new cabin crew and other departments expanding yet no new engineers,sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Contracting or uprooting to go abroad is the only game it seems.

Yep, you are 100% correct in that summation. Either feck off abroad or leave the industry. I don't know what it is about engineering, Is it that we don't value ourselves? Ops get treated like royalty in comparison. I personally think that when engineers get into middle management, they are happy to screw those underneath as they go to management with their own low ball standards.

jucylucy · 06-05-2017 4:13pm

Etihad pay well I hear,late 60K...plus perks. Cityjet are a little lower and ASL also mid 60k...there is more companies than EI and hangars.
Ryanair also pay well for engineers.
Stobart are mid table also.
Direct are using contractors so the rate is usuall late €30s an hour.
BCT is another maintenance company in Dublin.
A lot depends on your experience and type ratings.
EI have a lot of young guys who went through their training and just stay there for that money.
Ask around and you will get a better picture I think.

lufties · 06-05-2017 4:34pm

jucylucy wrote: »

Etihad pay well I hear,late 60K...plus perks. Cityjet are a little lower and ASL also mid 60k...there is more companies than EI and hangars.
Ryanair also pay well for engineers.
Stobart are mid table also.
Direct are using contractors so the rate is usuall late €30s an hour.
BCT is another maintenance company in Dublin.
A lot depends on your experience and type ratings.
EI have a lot of young guys who went through their training and just stay there for that money.
Ask around and you will get a better picture I think.

Etihad is probably the best of the lot in that case..Ryanair shift pattern is awful, BCT are a bit cowboyish. Good post though, puts a positive spin on it.

Bussywussy · 06-05-2017 4:42pm

I also don't agree with companies paying licensed certifying engineers less than non certifying mechs/staff that couldn't be bothered their hole,I don't care how long they're in a company before them.

lufties · 06-05-2017 4:59pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

I also don't agree with companies paying licensed certifying engineers less than non certifying mechs/staff that couldn't be bothered their hole,I don't care how long they're in a company before them.

Are you referring to EI? A mate of mine said he was offered 27k for a B1 job with LHT in SNN, not far off a graduate salary. LHT seem to be the epitomy of globalist exploitation, they strategically go to countries that have few resources and pay less than the going rates while maximising their labour output. Kind of like new age slavery. We only have ourselves to blame by taking the outrageous conditions.

Bussywussy · 06-05-2017 6:42pm

lufties wrote: »

Are you referring to EI? A mate of mine said he was offered 27k for a B1 job with LHT in SNN, not far off a graduate salary. LHT seem to be the epitomy of globalist exploitation, they strategically go to countries that have few resources and pay less than the going rates while maximising their labour output. Kind of like new age slavery. We only have ourselves to blame by taking the outrageous conditions.

Both actually....look at the places where LHT opened ie puerto rico,also they recruit loads of Bangladeshi lads for SNN through some farce of a course they pay thousands for

lufties · 06-05-2017 6:57pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

Both actually....look at the places where LHT opened ie puerto rico,also they recruit loads of Bangladeshi lads for SNN through some farce of a course they pay thousands for

They wouldn't get away with that carry on in Germany, and they know it!

Bussywussy · 06-05-2017 7:11pm

lufties wrote: »

They wouldn't get away with that carry on in Germany, and they know it!

Absolutely..anytime there was a dispute in SNN big bad German LHT would put the staff on protective notice to bully them.

lufties · 06-05-2017 7:21pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

They wouldn't get away with that carry on in Germany, and they know it!

Absolutely..anytime there was a dispute in SNN big bad German LHT would put the staff on protective notice to bully them.

So much so that when it was SAL, they bullied the workers into voting out a good pension..Then lht moved in and the name changed to lht snn.
I've worked for them in Germany and its the handiest number you could imagine.

Bussywussy · 06-05-2017 7:51pm

lufties wrote: »

So much so that when it was SAL, they bullied the workers into voting out a good pension..Then lht moved in and the name changed to lht snn.
I've worked for them in Germany and its the handiest number you could imagine.

They gave some different coloured badge that finally gave them priority over sub contracted cleaners for standby flights insteadðŸ˜‚ I worked for them as well in sofia your right...

donkey balls · 07-05-2017 3:36pm

While I don't work in the aviation industry anymore on a full time basis I still have indirect dealings with the industry and have friends working for various airlines etc , The exploitation of people working in the MX end of things is not industry specific and this race to the bottom has happened in the transport and logistics sector.
Take truck drivers as an example before the crash they earned a decent wage then companies like Stobart along with others including some Irish companies , Started to slash the wages down to the min wage along with the cutting of OT/ shift allowance etc.
What ended up happening was experienced drivers left the industry over the last few years some moving into other aspects of the industry, Or like a friend of mine who is a paramedic now.
The transport and logistics companies cannot get good experienced drivers now and they wonder why maybe something similar needs to happen in the engineering/ maintenance industry.

Bussywussy · 07-05-2017 6:31pm

donkey balls wrote: »

While I don't work in the aviation industry anymore on a full time basis I still have indirect dealings with the industry and have friends working for various airlines etc , The exploitation of people working in the MX end of things is not industry specific and this race to the bottom has happened in the transport and logistics sector.
Take truck drivers as an example before the crash they earned a decent wage then companies like Stobart along with others including some Irish companies , Started to slash the wages down to the min wage along with the cutting of OT/ shift allowance etc.
What ended up happening was experienced drivers left the industry over the last few years some moving into other aspects of the industry, Or like a friend of mine who is a paramedic now.
The transport and logistics companies cannot get good experienced drivers now and they wonder why maybe something similar needs to happen in the engineering/ maintenance industry.

Correct It will happen...was told that EI won't be able to recruit/attract licensed engineers unless they up the pay significantly and of an MRO that couldn't recruit contractors on poor rates to do heavy maintenance checks.

Bazzy · 07-05-2017 8:03pm

I've a friend in the industry who has suffered the same

I have seen it happen in another industry

The company get rid of the employees sub the work out and screw the sub contractor on the rates

A race to the bottom is a polite description of it no winners whatsoever apart from the big corporate and they have the unions paid off so the man on the shop floor gets rode plain and simple

lufties · 07-05-2017 9:09pm

Bazzy wrote: »

I've a friend in the industry who has suffered the same

I have seen it happen in another industry

The company get rid of the employees sub the work out and screw the sub contractor on the rates

A race to the bottom is a polite description of it no winners whatsoever apart from the big corporate and they have the unions paid off so the man on the shop floor gets rode plain and simple

I think Ireland is a tough place to work also as the industry is small and highly competitive, piss the wrong person off and you could kiss your career in Ireland goodbye. I've been away since 2009 and its the best thing I've ever done. That's not me being bitter for any reason, its just being objective.

donkey balls · 07-05-2017 10:38pm

Yep while the industry might seem big to someone looking in from the outside, Just like the one I work in everyone knows someone.

kona · 08-05-2017 12:53pm

The us equivalent of a unrestricted b1 in the easa system can expect to earn in the region of 100k us.

The irish equivalent can expect to start on low to mid 30s and stay in this region for most their career.

But sure when people will pay the taxi driver more than their airfare what do you expect?

lufties · 08-05-2017 4:48pm

kona wrote: »

The us equivalent of a unrestricted b1 in the easa system can expect to earn in the region of 100k us.

The irish equivalent can expect to start on low to mid 30s and stay in this region for most their career.

But sure when people will pay the taxi driver more than their airfare what do you expect?

Its actually the low cost airlines like ryr and ezy pay the most. OK be prepared to work like a dog and be treated like ****. Legacy carriers tend let their arrogance get in the way. 10 years from now the likes of EI will be scratching around for engineers.

aviator7 · 08-05-2017 7:03pm

lufties wrote: »

Its actually the low cost airlines like ryr and ezy pay the most. OK be prepared to work like a dog and be treated like ****. Legacy carriers tend let their arrogance get in the way. 10 years from now the likes of EI will be scratching around for engineers.

It will be a lot sooner than that with aer lingus
I would imagine. Seems like every week someone is handing in their notice at this stage - with plenty more planning on jumping ship this summer.

Sad to see, but if the pay isn't there anymore, that's the way it's going to be I suppose.

If pay and conditions don't improve very soon it's hard to see how they are going to manage maintenance in Dublin.

kona · 08-05-2017 7:53pm

lufties wrote: »

Its actually the low cost airlines like ryr and ezy pay the most. OK be prepared to work like a dog and be treated like ****. Legacy carriers tend let their arrogance get in the way. 10 years from now the likes of EI will be scratching around for engineers.

EI wont be scratching around for engineers, there will always be somebody who wants to come home and tip away for a few years after earning the bulk of their wages abroad.
Aer lingus are taking on apprentice this year too so theres a few places in the future covered.

What do people think is a fair wage for a fully approved engineer?

Stovepipe · 08-05-2017 8:45pm

13 experienced engineers and engineering planning staff have left EI in recent times, most going to leasing companies and ALL have doubled their salaries/wages and ALL have improved their terms and conditions. EI are now in the dubious position of being one of the bottom payers in Dublin Airport, alongside Dublin Aerospace. Conditions for aptces have also gone down the pan and anyone who asks me about joining EI as a mech, I tell them to apply for the cadets instead or go to college. A cadet fresh from Jerez in EI has better Ts and Cs from day one than any mech, no matter how much service he has got. A new pilot in EI enjoys strong Union protection, a decent pay scale, a decent pension and infinitely better career path. The only use there is now for an apprenticeship as an aircraft mech is as a stepping stone to something better. It really galls me to say that, but I could not, in conscience, encourage any school leaver to take it up.

lufties · 08-05-2017 9:23pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

13 experienced engineers and engineering planning staff have left EI in recent times, most going to leasing companies and ALL have doubled their salaries/wages and ALL have improved their terms and conditions. EI are now in the dubious position of being one of the bottom payers in Dublin Airport, alongside Dublin Aerospace. Conditions for aptces have also gone down the pan and anyone who asks me about joining EI as a mech, I tell them to apply for the cadets instead or go to college. A cadet fresh from Jerez in EI has better Ts and Cs from day one than any mech, no matter how much service he has got. A new pilot in EI enjoys strong Union protection, a decent pay scale, a decent pension and infinitely better career path. The only use there is now for an apprenticeship as an aircraft mech is as a stepping stone to something better. It really galls me to say that, but I could not, in conscience, encourage any school leaver to take it up.

100% correct. I've nearly 20 yrs experience in aircraft maintenance. I'm doing an MSC currently with a yr left of it. The writing is on the wall. The trade has gone down the pan rapidly.

lufties · 08-05-2017 9:24pm

kona wrote: »

EI wont be scratching around for engineers, there will always be somebody who wants to come home and tip away for a few years after earning the bulk of their wages abroad.
Aer lingus are taking on apprentice this year too so theres a few places in the future covered.

What do people think is a fair wage for a fully approved engineer?

A start of 60k as a newly qualified B1 with one type is fair IMO.

Stovepipe · 08-05-2017 9:32pm

No offence, but a newbie B1 with one TR is not experienced enough, to generate 60K. You'd be getting late 30s, early 40s and you'd be stuck on permie nights or such like.

kona · 08-05-2017 9:44pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

No offence, but a newbie B1 with one TR is not experienced enough, to generate 60K. You'd be getting late 30s, early 40s and you'd be stuck on permie nights or such like.

And a experienced b1?

Also what should a unapproved mechanic get?

lufties · 08-05-2017 9:44pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

No offence, but a newbie B1 with one TR is not experienced enough, to generate 60K. You'd be getting late 30s, early 40s and you'd be stuck on permie nights or such like.

Well given the responsibility, experience doesn't really come into it. 60k is what is fair, the reality however is the pay is peanuts especially in Ireland. The UK where i work is not much bettert, but your money goes further overall, and there's a lot more opportunities to get ahead in various ways. Ireland is a lot more competitive,

lufties · 08-05-2017 9:52pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

No offence, but a newbie B1 with one TR is not experienced enough, to generate 60K. You'd be getting late 30s, early 40s and you'd be stuck on permie nights or such like.

Also, i used for for EI, so I know the craic there.

Stovepipe · 09-05-2017 6:55pm

Unapproved mech? try Eu26K, when oul sweats in DA were getting that and an alleged bonus. Some of those who left lately were on about 45K and doubled their wages in the leasing companies.

lufties · 09-05-2017 7:57pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Unapproved mech? try Eu26K, when oul sweats in DA were getting that and an alleged bonus. Some of those who left lately were on about 45K and doubled their wages in the leasing companies.

EI is recruiting I see. Too bad its a den of ***** though.

LeakRate · 09-05-2017 9:00pm

Unapproved mech pay should be in the region of 45k with shift, approved b1/ b2 should be 65-70k in my opinion.
There are still a few company's at home offering this wage, Cityjet, Ryanair, Stobart.
Dub Aerospace and Lingus approval pay is beyond a joke, insulting to be honest.
We only have ourselves to blame really, ok they we're able to get away with it when SRT closed. But there is a god awful habit of engineers more than happy to sit back and ride each other, im on x amount an hour than he his, but f**k him.
The pilots would never let it happen, when lingus opened their belfast base, they tried to put the jockies on lower pay, worse conditions, the result, all pilots ready to strike, not a hope it would happen with engineers.

Aviation Maintenance salaries

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