Better Call Saul Spoilers

Cloudio9 · 05-05-2017 03:22PM

NellyJelly wrote: »

The only bad thing about this show is that I know deep down Jimmy and Kim don't live happily ever after.

I don't find them credible as a couple.

ardinn · 05-05-2017 03:23PM

She was in breaking bad wasnt she??

jcsoulinger · 05-05-2017 03:24PM

ardinn wrote: »

She was in breaking bad wasnt she??

Nope

_Kaiser_ · 05-05-2017 03:29PM

Cloudio9 wrote: »

I don't find them credible as a couple.

Agreed. While she's not nearly as objectionable this season, she still has no interest in Jimmy romantically which is very clear.

I'm even surprised she's standing by him at the moment TBH given her stance last season on Jimmy's willingness to bend the rules when needed. Could just as easily seen her telling him he was on his own when the tape/truth came out.

jcsoulinger · 05-05-2017 03:31PM

storker wrote: »

I love how the theme of actions having consequences continues. If Howard hadn't treated Kim so badly in Season 2, she would not have decided to leave HHM and Mesa Verde would still be a HHM client and Jimmy's copy and paste scam would never have happened. Now they're lost Mesa Verde, and Jimmy has Kim defending him, whereas otherwise he might be conducting his own defence with probably disastrous consequences.

If Jimmy never did the "copy and paste scam" then what would he be conducting his own defense to?

Oafley Jones · 05-05-2017 03:33PM

I really like this show, but I can never get away from how much of each episode is taken up with "what are they doing". It's quite a shallow thing that's padded with keeping the audience intrigued with the various trade craft.

storker · 05-05-2017 03:45PM

jcsoulinger wrote: »

If Jimmy never did the "copy and paste scam" then what would he be conducting his own defense to?

Yes that's true.

loremolis · 05-05-2017 05:42PM

storker wrote: »

Great stuff, thanks for posting, and good point about Ernesto. He was entrapped as much as Jimmy, and Chuck fired him even though he did what Chuck wanted. Jimmy has some huge faults, but being a vindictive pr1ck isn't one of them; that's Chuck's area of expertise.

I love how the theme of actions having consequences continues. If Howard hadn't treated Kim so badly in Season 2, she would not have decided to leave HHM and Mesa Verde would still be a HHM client and Jimmy's copy and paste scam would never have happened. Now they're lost Mesa Verde, and Jimmy has Kim defending him, whereas otherwise he might be conducting his own defence with probably disastrous consequences.

Your logic is flawed.

If the copy and paste scam never happened then Kimmy would not have had anything to confess to Chuck about and there would be no case against Jimmy for Kim to defend.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Oops, sorry, didn't spot the earlier posts pointing this out.

One more thing, is the whole 'bingo' thing too obvious? We all think that jimmy is going to beat Chuck on this but it's possible that we're being mislead by the writers in order to create a bigger surprise when Chuck wins the case.

I'll be disappointed if there're is not a twist to this that we don't see coming.

jcsoulinger · 05-05-2017 06:31PM

loremolis wrote: »

Your logic is flawed.

If the copy and paste scam never happened then Kimmy would not have had anything to confess to Chuck about and there would be no case against Jimmy for Kim to defend.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Oops, sorry, didn't spot the earlier posts pointing this out.

One more thing, is the whole 'bingo' thing too obvious? We all think that jimmy is going to beat Chuck on this but it's possible that we're being mislead by the writers in order to create a bigger surprise when Chuck wins the case.

I'll be disappointed if there're is not a twist to this that we don't see coming.

Ya maybe they rule in favour of Jimmy, but Kim gets caught up in it and she ends up being disbarred, which would be a real ironic tragedy.

storker · 05-05-2017 06:33PM

loremolis wrote: »

Your logic is flawed.
One more thing, is the whole 'bingo' thing too obvious? We all think that jimmy is going to beat Chuck on this but it's possible that we're being mislead by the writers in order to create a bigger surprise when Chuck wins the case.

I'll be disappointed if there're is not a twist to this that we don't see coming.

Agreed. I'd be surprised if putting one over on Howard, and Chuck with his encyclopaedic knowledge of case law, turned out to be so easy. That admission about the duplicate came a little too easily, I think.

leggo · 05-05-2017 07:33PM

I could buy them getting one over on them because Kim and Jimmy are now doing the conman team thing, which it's established they're good at (whereas Howard and Chuck would expect Kim to be by book). But yeah I'd also say that there's another twist in the works. Jimmy has to become Saul at some stage and this seems a perfectly plausible way to do it.

take everything · 06-05-2017 09:50AM

rubadub wrote: »

I doubt the duplicate tape would be in chucks house.

I would have thought copying an important tape would be standard practice for lawyers. I remember in my work 15+years ago data was backed up to tape and taken home by a manager (like chuck would not have 2 copies in the same house of an important tape)

What I am wondering is:
If copying a tape is a common practice (as you say) would this undermine any argument Kim might try to make in regard to entrapment. In the sense that if it was common practice, Chuck could argue that there would have been no motive on his part as he would have known Jimmy wouldn't have broken in (if copying a tape was common practice) (ie why would someone break in if there was another copy).

Indeed, you could ask why did Jimmy break in at all in the first place (entrapment or not) if this was common practice.

rubadub · 07-05-2017 12:08AM

take everything wrote: »

Indeed, you could ask why did Jimmy break in at all in the first place (entrapment or not) if this was common practice.

I wondered that myself. Chuck seemed absolutely certain he was going to break in. At the start of the episode I copped why the guy was in Chucks house, but could not figure out how he was so sure Jimmy would come after the PI being there for several days.

Jimmy seemed to fly into a rage and did it spur of the moment. I don't think he thought he was getting the only copy, he mentioned copies.

You pulled that heartstrings con job on me? You piece of ****! [IMITATING CHUCK] "Oh, my brain used to work.
"I'm sick.
I don't know what to do.
" [IN NORMAL VOICE] Asshole! No wonder Rebecca left you.
What took her so long? There it is! Here we go.
Here we go.
Here we go.
[GRUNTING] Is this it? Is this it? Is this it? Huh? For this, you destroyed our family? You happy now? For what? For nothing! Is that all there is, Chuck? It's all the all there is? Or did you make copies? Huh, Chuck? Huh? You tell me, or I'll burn this whole goddamn house to the ground.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=better-call-saul-2015&episode=s03e02

It is one of the things that bugged me in this season, the bigger thing being how atrocious Jimmy was as a spy for Mike. For a guy with a lifelong history of pulling off many successful scams, posing as other characters, you would think he would know how to be covert.

take everything · 07-05-2017 11:25AM

rubadub wrote: »

I wondered that myself. Chuck seemed absolutely certain he was going to break in. At the start of the episode I copped why the guy was in Chucks house, but could not figure out how he was so sure Jimmy would come after the PI being there for several days.

Jimmy seemed to fly into a rage and did it spur of the moment. I don't think he thought he was getting the only copy, he mentioned copies.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=better-call-saul-2015&episode=s03e02

It is one of the things that bugged me in this season, the bigger thing being how atrocious Jimmy was as a spy for Mike. For a guy with a lifelong history of pulling off many successful scams, posing as other characters, you would think he would know how to be covert.

So could Jimmy and Kim be playing Chuck's game (including breaking in) ever since Ernesto told them about it. They are masters at the con game.

That may be implausible as I admit I may have missed stuff but it would make for a hell of a twist. And fit the narrative of Jimmy outsmarting his brother's supposed high-minded methods (which really use just as many dirty tricks) by Jimmy and Kim's being more skilled at this stuff.
And being more honest with themselves than Chuck about how they go about it.

I dunno.
Can't wait for Tuesday

Murrisk · 08-05-2017 02:59AM

rubadub wrote: »

Also just discovered that Don Eladio is played by the same actor who played Manny in scarface!

Seriously, only now? 2011 wants its revelation back! :P

Hank Scorpio · 09-05-2017 06:30AM

Well that was excellent.

Murrisk · 09-05-2017 07:28AM

Custardpi wrote: »

If you're watching BCS in expectation of dramatic fight scenes & explosions you're going to be disappointed & would be better off tuning out & going to watch Batman vs Superman instead.

Well, into the third season, I officially give up on BCS. My OH watches so I have by proxy and I just... don't like it.

The reason I have quoted the above is because it's a prevalent view amongst BCS fans, I find, but is so simplistic and binary. It's not a choice between liking character development or liking fights and explosions. More than any show, the reaction towards people who don't like the show tends to veer towards insulting.

For me, I don't care about what happens to the characters and the show is just too slow. People seem to argue that BB was just as much of a slow burn as BCS, but that is a crock. The first two seasons of BB are like a lava flow on a steep gradient compared to BCS. SO much happened in that two seasons whilst at the same, characters were developed. Ditto something like Sopranos. These shows were multilayered, something that I think BCS is missing.

To me, it reads like the writers are having trouble coming up with a story for how Jimmy ends up becoming Saul. The more likely thing would be that he was always a bit of a shyster and they have tried to do the opposite. Portraying him as a thoughtful guy just reads clunky and false to me. It also reads like they realise they have to drag out the transformation to Saul because when that happens, the show is probably over. And that dragging out doesn't work, IMO.

I was very reluctant to write this post. I have read a lot of message board threads on BCS and the attitude towards people who dislike the show is mostly insulting. Likewise, the critical acclaim is almost universal, moreso than Breaking Bad, with some critics suggesting it surpasses BB! :eek: Even BB didn't get universal acclaim throughout its run.

steve_r · 09-05-2017 08:51AM

Murrisk wrote: »

Well, into the third season, I officially give up on BCS. My OH watches so I have by proxy and I just... don't like it.

The reason I have quoted the above is because it's a prevalent view amongst BCS fans, I find, but is so simplistic and binary. It's not a choice between liking character development or liking fights and explosions. More than any show, the reaction towards people who don't like the show tends to veer towards insulting.

For me, I don't care about what happens to the characters and the show is just too slow. People seem to argue that BB was just as much of a slow burn as BCS, but that is a crock. The first two seasons of BB are like a lava flow on a steep gradient compared to BCS. SO much happened in that two seasons whilst at the same, characters were developed. Ditto something like Sopranos. These shows were multilayered, something that I think BCS is missing.

To me, it reads like the writers are having trouble coming up with a story for how Jimmy ends up becoming Saul. The more likely thing would be that he was always a bit of a shyster and they have tried to do the opposite. Portraying him as a thoughtful guy just reads clunky and false to me. It also reads like they realise they have to drag out the transformation to Saul because when that happens, the show is probably over. And that dragging out doesn't work, IMO.

I was very reluctant to write this post. I have read a lot of message board threads on BCS and the attitude towards people who dislike the show is mostly insulting. Likewise, the critical acclaim is almost universal, moreso than Breaking Bad, with some critics suggesting it surpasses BB! :eek: Even BB didn't get universal acclaim throughout its run.

I think that's a fair viewpoint. I love BCS, but when I was reading your piece a part of me did wonder if the slow buildup will ever truely go anywhere.

It will be interesting to see what the view is in a few years when the dust has settled. It's easy to get caught up in the hype of an ongoing show that can get over-praised when it is out. In a few years the commentary will be a lot more nuanced and refined as people will have more perspective.

Personally I prefer BCS over BB, and that's really just becuase I find the core characters more interesting which is a subjective point. I'm agnostic towards the pacing, but appreciate it fustrates some people.

take everything · 09-05-2017 12:14PM

God that episode was good.
Almost felt sorry for Chuck in the end.

Wonderful television

-=al=- · 09-05-2017 12:34PM

And he is gone! :pac:

robwen · 09-05-2017 01:34PM

Anyone confirm the length of this week's episode? Any stream I've started shows up just over 34 mins seems quite a bit shorter than usual, don't want to start watching & find a good chunk missing towards end

Slydice · 09-05-2017 01:34PM

At very end as I saw how much was happening to Chuck, how far it was gone... it wasn't sorry for him but just.. I dunno.. like just what a waste.

Slydice · 09-05-2017 01:36PM

robwen wrote: »

Anyone confirm the length of this week's episode? Any stream I've started shows up just over 34 mins seems quite a bit shorter than usual, don't want to start watching & find a good chunk missing towards end

49min:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5719536/

Better Call Saul (2015– ) 9.9/10 (481)
Chicanery
15 | 49min | Crime, Drama | Episode aired 8 May 2017

Cloudio9 · 09-05-2017 01:42PM

But at the end of the day we still have Jimmy admitting to committing a crime. He admits that it's his voice on the tape. Is there a sting in the tail for Jimmy coming ?

Keplar240B · 09-05-2017 02:48PM

A stand alone battery would give off hardly any electromagnetic field, its switched off no current flowing?

Martin567 · 09-05-2017 03:22PM

Cloudio9 wrote: »

But at the end of the day we still have Jimmy admitting to committing a crime. He admits that it's his voice on the tape. Is there a sting in the tail for Jimmy coming ?

I don't think so. He admits that it's his voice on the tape but he claims that he was lying when he confessed to altering the documents in order to make Chuck feel better.

His defence is that he was worried about Chuck's mental health (which is true!) and he only confessed so that Chuck would no longer think he'd made a mistake with the documents and would go back to practising law (also true!!).

Murrisk · 09-05-2017 03:45PM

steve_r wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what the view is in a few years when the dust has settled. It's easy to get caught up in the hype of an ongoing show that can get over-praised when it is out. In a few years the commentary will be a lot more nuanced and refined as people will have more perspective.

Thanks, steve r.

Yeah, this is an interesting point. To me, some of the praise does seem a bit anticipatory too, like people are critiquing it based on the assumption that the payoff will be work all the waiting. I even read a critic review where the critic apologised and blamed himself for having some problems with the show, a real "it's not you, it's me" type thing. I thought that was weird, when has any critic ever apologised for their viewpoint? :P People say it's a standalone show but, IMO, the knowledge we have from Breaking Bad can't be erased and we know how this is going to end up. Well mostly, I suppose we don't know what is going to happen to Kim or Chuck yet. Knowing where it going affects the pacing and storyline, IMO.

And then, maybe it is just me and the show really is that great but just not for me. I just find that the stakes are too low. The glacial pacing might be worth it if the storylines were worthy of it. For example, Mad Men was also a very slow-paced show but the storylines were much more intriguing to me than anything that has happened in BCS, so slow-pacing is not the issue for me in and of itself.

And as for the claims that it stands alone; yes, there are some BB characters that it makes sense for them to pop up in this show. Jimmy/Saul obviously knew some of them from before the BB universe. But some things have inextricably tied the two shows together. For example, I was dismayed to see "KEN WINS!" dude show up in BCS. His appearance showed him getting got again. Talk about overegging the pudding. We saw him get his comeuppance in BB and his appearance was more to do with Walt getting some vindication. He was a footnote on the show. Having him appear in BCS - I just don't know what the point of that was... "Let's see him get even more of a comeuppance"?

Anyway, I'm ranting. Thank for not dismissing my view offhand, yours was a thoughtful response!

Brendan Filone · 09-05-2017 03:51PM

Did anyone think that in the flashback dinner scene where Chuck lies about the power company turning off his electricity due to a mix-up of numbers in an address is where Jimmy got the idea for switching the addresses in his Mesa Verde stunt?

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2017 05:28PM

Murrisk wrote: »

Well, into the third season, I officially give up on BCS. My OH watches so I have by proxy and I just... don't like it.

The reason I have quoted the above is because it's a prevalent view amongst BCS fans, I find, but is so simplistic and binary. It's not a choice between liking character development or liking fights and explosions. More than any show, the reaction towards people who don't like the show tends to veer towards insulting.

For me, I don't care about what happens to the characters and the show is just too slow.

People seem to argue that BB was just as much of a slow burn as BCS, but that is a crock. The first two seasons of BB are like a lava flow on a steep gradient compared to BCS. SO much happened in that two seasons whilst at the same, characters were developed. Ditto something like Sopranos. These shows were multilayered, something that I think BCS is missing.

To me, it reads like the writers are having trouble coming up with a story for how Jimmy ends up becoming Saul. The more likely thing would be that he was always a bit of a shyster and they have tried to do the opposite. Portraying him as a thoughtful guy just reads clunky and false to me. It also reads like they realise they have to drag out the transformation to Saul because when that happens, the show is probably over. And that dragging out doesn't work, IMO.

You are correct in saying that BCS is slower then BB. I think the idea in BCS is to focus on the human element. Day to day normal interactions, the mundane stuff mixed with quirkiness. The characters have good depth I think there is no completely good or bad character in BCS.
The slower pace makes it seem even more realistic to me.
Don't forget BB had an episode about a fly because they ran out of budget!

I can understand completely that you think it is too slow if you want a faster pace.

There are shows such as Game of Thrones that I just cannot get into because the characters are stereotypical cardboard, one dimensional cut outs. I really couldn't give a damn who died or didn't!

But people seem to enjoy it and good luck to them it's production values seem to be good.

As for the Sopranos I got into it years after it was broadcast and watched 2-3 episodes at a time. So I cannot really comment on the pace of it since it was intended to be watched weekly.

I think that when BCS is finished years from now people will be able to binge watch it if they wish. It will be a different viewing experience. In particular for those who watch it before BB.

As regards your comments about Jimmy's character seeming like a thoughtful guy being false and clunky.

I think you are wrong there as in BB there are plenty of times he worries for individual's well being like Jesse for instance.
He had not completely 'Broke Bad'

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2017 05:34PM

Brendan Filone wrote: »

Did anyone think that in the flashback dinner scene where Chuck lies about the power company turning off his electricity due to a mix-up of numbers in an address is where Jimmy got the idea for switching the addresses in his Mesa Verde stunt?

It crossed my mind.

I think the line was deliberately meant to echo the Mesa Verde case at the very least.

Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

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