People on Boards who judge other people

Boom_Bap · 24-04-2017 04:08PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I judge people all the time. People judge me too, so what?
I do what I can to make life decent for myself, and have opinions on people i think are wasters. I don't think for a second my judgements are always accurate but they're my opinions, that's all

:pac:

Widdershins · 24-04-2017 04:12PM

mzungu wrote: »

That's just youth, I find time tends to inject a bit of sense into such folk. Knew a few people like that when I was younger, they always made me laugh. They were living off the state and claiming to be "independent" and "doing things their own way" whilst droning on about Marx ad nauseam (it escaped them that in a state run on Marxist doctrine they sure wouldn't be sitting on their arses in the lap of luxury). Well, lets just say, they soon found out that once you get past your early twenties you won't have a conveyor belt of people calling over to the house for a party every night of the week. Not surprisingly, all of them over time got jobs and assimilated themselves into the capitalist system quite well. I'm sure Marx is turning in his grave!

For college students it seems to be a phase, but for the more hippily-oriented I don't think they quite grow out of it. These are in their 30s and a 43 year old

I believe I came out with some muck like that myself once or twice.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-04-2017 04:13PM

Can't see my haters when I got my love glasses on

#hatersarememotivaturz

Yourself isit · 24-04-2017 04:19PM

Widdershins wrote: »

For college students it seems to be a phase, but for the more hippily-oriented I don't think they quite grow out of it. These are in their 30s and a 43 year old I believe I came out with some muck like that myself once or twice.

So they are all on the dole hoping for the Marxist revolution that would make them work?

andekwarhola · 24-04-2017 04:20PM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Oh yes it is. Well if you are talking about real bullying and not "Oh the bad man doesn't agree with me so he's a BULLY".

Agreed

There's a certain type of poster that throws a wobbler when they're pulled up on posts a few times. They'll usually throw some hysterical platitude into the mix about 'being followed around' hoping a mod acolyte will action it.

All it does is devalue any actual bullying that does go on (and obviously this should be actioned).

Widdershins · 24-04-2017 04:37PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

So they are all on the dole hoping for the Marxist revolution that would make them work?

Yes, and probably.
They're more anarchists than marxists but they're hazy on the details.

andekwarhola · 24-04-2017 04:43PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

So they are all on the dole hoping for the Marxist revolution that would make them work?

Not sure the 'Lumpenproletariat' or crusty flaneurs would fare too well after that revolution. They might well be turkeys hoping for Christmas there.

Permabear · 24-04-2017 05:28PM

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Grandeeod · 24-04-2017 10:46PM

I've just watched Angela's Ashes. Some parts of the film remind me of some things said on Boards.ie about the less well off. Some day someone will make a movie like Angela's Ashes and it will be about early 21st century Ireland.

Permabear · 24-04-2017 11:42PM

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Grandeeod · 25-04-2017 09:57PM

Permabear wrote: »

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No. I'm not kidding. You may be taking the comparison too literally. However, I do hope somebody is writing about the events of the last 10 years and I do hope a movie is made out of it some day. Times change and kinds of poverty and suffering change too.

RabbleRouser2k · 25-04-2017 10:56PM

Sadly-i've heard many, in person, criticise the single moms-it seems to always rattle around when their is either a recession, cuts in the budget, or the 'I didn't get the bank loan, but yer wan down the road did-and she's got 4 kids by 3 fathers' etc.

Seems the 4 villains of society now are 'foreigners', single moms, politicians, and men. And the first and last really anger me, tbh. Mainly because some of my best friends are non-irish, and I'm male. As for single moms-you get many who are kind and friendly cos they get treated like crap and don't want anyone else to be-and then you get a minority who have a chip on their shoulder. And I know many single moms and dads who are in that position because their partner left them with the kid-or they left their ex because said ex was an abusive scumbag.
But as a whole, they shouldn't be tarred with the one brush. And politicians-yeah, everyone has their opinions on them-not gonna go into talks here.

The attitudes to those born outside of ireland is so horrible-and so unwarranted (Yeah, I know-this from a dubious guy with a grey opinion on single mom's ), that I find myself getting defensive immediately when the topic emerges. It may even be positive, I just get defensive. But some people can start off with the 'well, you seem cool...so about those foreigners...' and it can only go two ways then.
But you get the 'my brother cannot get a job cos of the *insert nationality here*-never mind that the reason that their brother cannot get a job is because he has a criminal conviction. The problem there is that these people take the jobs that most Irish don't want, in order to get their foot on the ladder to their chosen career.

Permabear · 25-04-2017 11:17PM

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Solomon Pleasant · 25-04-2017 11:27PM

I find it remarkable that people have the lack of awareness to suggest that the current state of poverty in Ireland is even remotely comparable to how past generations lived.

Considering the size of our country, our lack of valuable natural resources and our troubled past, I think we have done very well as a nation. Certainly we've adapted well and taken fantastic advantage of other economic zones, in particular the UK and the EU (quite possibly the reason that we are as developed as we are). I think Ireland is quite progressive and futuristic by most success matrices and perhaps a side effect of this has been judgements fired at one another and the desire to outdo each other which, I suppose, isn't really an exclusive aspect of irish nature but rather human nature in a more general sense.

Samaris · 26-04-2017 08:25AM

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

I find it remarkable that people have the lack of awareness to suggest that the current state of poverty in Ireland is even remotely comparable to how past generations lived.

Considering the size of our country, our lack of valuable natural resources and our troubled past, I think we have done very well as a nation. Certainly we've adapted well and taken fantastic advantage of other economic zones, in particular the UK and the EU (quite possibly the reason that we are as developed as we are). I think Ireland is quite progressive and futuristic by most success matrices and perhaps a side effect of this has been judgements fired at one another and the desire to outdo each other which, I suppose, isn't really an exclusive aspect of irish nature but rather human nature in a more general sense.

There probably is an element of it not really mattering if the rest of the country is rich for people who -are- in poverty and there will always be some. And their level of poverty is the state to compare previous generations to, unless you want to count it is "how many are in poverty now" to "how many were in poverty then", which is also valid.

And is poverty better or worse if you feel alone in it? Going back a few generations, sure, you might have little to nothing, but it was much the same for all your neighbours up to the village, where there's a pecking order of people who own small businesses and/or can send their kids to school without having to worry about being without another pair of hands. So poverty may not have been so pernicious when "everyone" shared it. Look at the East End communities of London before the tenements were cleared and people were moved out of the slums. It was grinding poverty, but there was a feel of community and families supporting each other. But now, if you're in poverty, trying to get help, there is a very real sense that everyone around you is doing fine, so is it just you being a failure etcetera. That miasma of depression through a lack of community is probably one of the more painful parts of poverty.

So poverty in Ireland today may be in some ways better than back then (you are less likely to die, so that's a pretty major plus), and in some ways worse (depression, alone, little support and little understanding from fellow citizens who are doing well.)

Permabear · 26-04-2017 10:02AM

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Solomon Pleasant · 26-04-2017 10:19AM

Samaris wrote: »

There probably is an element of it not really mattering if the rest of the country is rich for people who -are- in poverty and there will always be some. And their level of poverty is the state to compare previous generations to, unless you want to count it is "how many are in poverty now" to "how many were in poverty then", which is also valid.

And is poverty better or worse if you feel alone in it? Going back a few generations, sure, you might have little to nothing, but it was much the same for all your neighbours up to the village, where there's a pecking order of people who own small businesses and/or can send their kids to school without having to worry about being without another pair of hands. So poverty may not have been so pernicious when "everyone" shared it. Look at the East End communities of London before the tenements were cleared and people were moved out of the slums. It was grinding poverty, but there was a feel of community and families supporting each other. But now, if you're in poverty, trying to get help, there is a very real sense that everyone around you is doing fine, so is it just you being a failure etcetera. That miasma of depression through a lack of community is probably one of the more painful parts of poverty.

So poverty in Ireland today may be in some ways better than back then (you are less likely to die, so that's a pretty major plus), and in some ways worse (depression, alone, little support and little understanding from fellow citizens who are doing well.)

I understand your point in that it may be mentally tougher on an individual to be impoverished in contemporary Ireland due their poverty being more isolated and less common. You're fairly spot on about the lack of community especially in hard times, I grew up in a county which had an unemployment rate of over 26% at the height of the Irish recession. I saw little evidence to suggest that people genuinely cared or even considered another person's interests, the same is true now. I expect that to continue, one of the major effects of a world financial crisis is that the people and countries everywhere become more inward facing and less open to diversification and change.

This being said, Ireland is a country which offers good opportunities, even if you are very poor. Our 3rd level education system is both objective and relatively accessible, it's also relatively straight forward to start a business in Ireland and, in general, individuals who are below or close to the poverty line are quite well catered for due to our generous welfare system (not a dig at those on welfare). Naturally poverty is worse if you are alone, but were a person to look beyond their current state of poverty, they would see opportunity. Generations of cyclical poverty and socio-economic stigma are difficult to break but far from impossible.

KyussBeeshop · 26-04-2017 11:16AM

The thing people miss about all that though, is that the economic system we're in, pretty much has it built-in that when economic bad times happen, many people will lose out and have diminished potential in their lives, and some will effectively get left behind by society, due to no fault of their own - even though there are more than enough resources (different to money...) to go around, for everyone to live a full life without that materially affecting others in a significant way.

For some people that will take the form of a few hard years scraping by where they pick themselves up again after, for some it will lead to a serious delay in getting their adult life started, for some it will lead to a life of debt that they struggle to get out from, and for some it will lead to limited/zero future prospects, with the stresses making their life fall apart, with some becoming homeless, or taking to drugs, or eventually killing themselves.

One of the biggest sources of judgemental attitudes I see regularly on Boards, is blaming that on the individual, rather than on the system they inhabit.

I think that's something that - lets say 100 years from now when economies are run differently and the flaws and solutions to todays economies are widely understood - future generations will look back on it, and view as unnecessary and abhorrent.

Today, I feel most people don't truly know any economic system other than the one they presently inhabit - to know that there are better ways of doing things - so any of the potential solutions (even if they are quite modest) just broach skepticism because they are unfamiliar (and for some people, are so unfamiliar or outright threatening to their world views, that discussion must be shut down).

There's all sorts of horrible shit still going on in the world, not just far away in socially backward nations but at home too, that we aren't as cognizant of as we should be - as we discover and look back at some of the more shocking recent examples (e.g. from the church and related institutions), we can see that it's fairly easy for societies of the time to not really be aware of these injustices - many look back and think "whew, that's horrible - glad nothing like that's still going on today...", as if present injustices have to be at least as bad as those past ones, to be worth acting upon - expect there is still plenty that is wrong which needs to be acted upon, that people are barely aware of (and which many will actually be in a rush to downplay, and judge others for being concerned about).

pilly · 26-04-2017 11:27AM

I love that this discussion has taken a different turn altogether. It's something I've often thought about because I remember a time when unemployment was 25% and yet people seemed happier than they are now.

My opinion on it is that because there was a higher proportion not well off there was less judgement. Back then it was the norm to apply for a council house and get one and then live there for life. There was no judgement around it and certainly none of this "free house" crap that's bandied around now.

Another reason for that maybe was that those who were well off or even relatively better off than the unemployed had more options. It wasn't as hard to buy or build your home so you weren't so bothered about Joe down the road getting a council house.

To me the start of this us and them attitude was when the government stopped building social housing, this created an open competition between people.

We should be rallying together against the government, not against each other.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 26-04-2017 12:12PM

I judge some people in the soccer forum. I love soccer and watch and play it by the way.

But it is deranged how a Dublin guy from Inchicore could 'hate' another Dublin guy from Inchicore because one is a 'Scouser' **** and the other is a 'Mancunian' ****. :rolleyes:

I'm talking about the guys who take it to the far extreme here, joking and messing is one thing. But some people on the soccer forum and in real life take it to such silly levels of seriousness I kind of wonder wtf is wrong with them.

Only for it being a totally harmless 'extreme' behaviour I'd be a little worried. It makes it so much clearer to me how some people can end up joining cults and ISIS and crap like that. People get so hung up on these notional forms of identity in their head and can become blinded to everything else.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 26-04-2017 12:35PM

pilly wrote: »

I love that this discussion has taken a different turn altogether. It's something I've often thought about because I remember a time when unemployment was 25% and yet people seemed happier than they are now.

My opinion on it is that because there was a higher proportion not well off there was less judgement. Back then it was the norm to apply for a council house and get one and then live there for life. There was no judgement around it and certainly none of this "free house" crap that's bandied around now.

Another reason for that maybe was that those who were well off or even relatively better off than the unemployed had more options. It wasn't as hard to buy or build your home so you weren't so bothered about Joe down the road getting a council house.

To me the start of this us and them attitude was when the government stopped building social housing, this created an open competition between people.

We should be rallying together against the government, not against each other.

This is an interview of two North Korean's who escaped to the South which I think kind of touches on what you said there.

They are both relatively young and lucid people. You wouldn't put them down as 'brainwashed' or as spies or anything.

The guy makes the point how South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the world. How people in the South always seem to be competing with each other and trying to get ahead of each other in the pursuit of materialistic things. He talks about how back in the North everyone knew their neighbours, how they all looked out for one another and how he felt part of the community in such a meaningful way. I think that is what Ireland has lost to some degree.

He makes no mistake in saying how the North's regime is horrible and all that. But the message I took away from it was that people are actually happier in the North in some respects.

People feeling connected to other people is probably the single most important thing for good mental health (besides maybe food and shelter). And it is not really talked about or given the prominence that it deserves.

pilly · 26-04-2017 12:45PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

This is an interview of two North Korean's who escaped to the South which I think kind of touches on what you said there.

They are both relatively young and lucid people. You wouldn't put them down as 'brainwashed' or as spies or anything.

The guy makes the point how South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the world. How people in the South always seem to be competing with each other and trying to get ahead of each other in the pursuit of materialistic things. He talks about how back in the North everyone knew their neighbours, how they all looked out for one another and how he felt part of the community in such a meaningful way. I think that is what Ireland has lost to some degree.

He makes no mistake in saying how the North's regime is horrible and all that. But the message I took away from it was that people are actually happier in the North in some respects.

People feeling connected to other people is probably the single most important thing for good mental health (besides maybe food and shelter). And it is not really talked about or given the prominence that it deserves.

Totally agree, I can't watch videos in work but I get the gist from what you're saying.

I honestly don't know what the answer to it is and I know we all look back with rose tinted glasses but I hate seeing the sense of community lost in our country. It's not like we're too large a country to keep it.

steddyeddy · 01-05-2017 03:58PM

Permabear wrote: »

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Here's the thing. I came from the bottom in economic terms but in aspiration I was always looking to the top. I was partly defined by my determination to be a successful scientist. Everyone in my council estate knew that. They knew that I thought I deserved better than the school I was in and that I wanted to go through to a PhD and eventually my own biotech company.

Do you know how many people criticised me for wanting to be successful? No one. I haven't heard it once. I think it's a myth to be honest. I think some people may be conflating successful with something else.

steddyeddy · 01-05-2017 04:00PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

This is an interview of two North Korean's who escaped to the South which I think kind of touches on what you said there.

They are both relatively young and lucid people. You wouldn't put them down as 'brainwashed' or as spies or anything.

The guy makes the point how South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the world. How people in the South always seem to be competing with each other and trying to get ahead of each other in the pursuit of materialistic things. He talks about how back in the North everyone knew their neighbours, how they all looked out for one another and how he felt part of the community in such a meaningful way. I think that is what Ireland has lost to some degree.

He makes no mistake in saying how the North's regime is horrible and all that. But the message I took away from it was that people are actually happier in the North in some respects.

People feeling connected to other people is probably the single most important thing for good mental health (besides maybe food and shelter). And it is not really talked about or given the prominence that it deserves.

That's it exactly. People want a sense of belonging to something. A feeling of being connected to other people.

Brendan Bendar · 01-05-2017 05:23PM

pilly wrote: »

I love that this discussion has taken a different turn altogether. It's something I've often thought about because I remember a time when unemployment was 25% and yet people seemed happier than they are now.

My opinion on it is that because there was a higher proportion not well off there was less judgement. Back then it was the norm to apply for a council house and get one and then live there for life. There was no judgement around it and certainly none of this "free house" crap that's bandied around now.

Another reason for that maybe was that those who were well off or even relatively better off than the unemployed had more options. It wasn't as hard to buy or build your home so you weren't so bothered about Joe down the road getting a council house.

To me the start of this us and them attitude was when the government stopped building social housing, this created an open competition between people.

We should be rallying together against the government, not against each other.

Why should we be rallying together against the Government as a matter of interest.

Sure they are not perfect- far from it, but does the " ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" quotation not hold any water?

No use sitting back and expecting others to support you when you will make no effort yourself surely?

Cupatae · 01-05-2017 05:29PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's a strong element of looking down on other people present on these pages. Be the targets poor people, single mothers or working class people as they put it. The thing is I rarely rarely hear those views among real people. Are more people than I think judgmental or does Boards bring out the extremes in society?

Its the internet really, it gives alot of cowardly people the protection of anonymity so they can voice their nonsense views with out repercussion

In reality the judgmental and hateful people wouldn't have the nuts to say the nonsense they spew on here in person.. id imagine most of em live quite sad lives.

aaronjumper · 01-05-2017 05:39PM

Cupatae wrote: »

Its the internet really, it gives alot of cowardly people the protection of anonymity so they can voice their nonsense views with out repercussion

In reality the judgmental and hateful people wouldn't have the nuts to say the nonsense they spew on here in person.. id imagine most of em live quite sad lives.

Say that to my face!

My name is John and I live in Dublin.

Permabear · 01-05-2017 05:56PM

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whoopsadoodles · 01-05-2017 06:04PM

Permabear wrote: »

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That's a bit patronising is it not? Suggesting he's not already succesful? Maybe he doesn't own his company yet but that doesn't mean he's not successful.

I have to agree with Eddy. Having worked my way up from the bottom, and being close to others who have done the same (one of whom is the most succesful person I know) there has never been any begrudging words uttered. We don't tend to try to rub success in peoples faces though or look down on people who weren't as fortunate as we were to have had the circumstances that allowed success.

Permabear · 01-05-2017 06:10PM

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People on Boards who judge other people

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