Bouncer punches woman who tried to punch him.

pilly · 21-04-2017 11:38AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Ahaha seriously?! So he's expected to take a job as bouncer to pay the bills with the understanding drunk women can hit him and he can't defend himself because it's not really assault?
Maybe the expectation he should have to being assaulted comes from attitudes like yours, that it's fine for women to hit men without repercussions because it would be "wrong" for a man to defend himself?

I'd suggest if she wants to be treated as a small defenceless woman, she act like one. Swinging your fists at people is not how women behave. If you are going to act like a scumbag you're going to get treated like one.

If you were in Tesco doing your shopping and some middle aged aul one took a swing at you because she wanted the last baguette, would you feel like you weren't assaulted because she was smaller than you?

Absolutely I wouldn't call that assault. Leaving aside the fact that I'm a very small middle aged aul one myself so it would be hard to be smaller than me.

I'd immediately think that the woman obviously has mental health issues and deal with it in an manner that was appropriate. That would not involve punching her in the face.

And before the usual "hard men" come on here saying "you've obviously never been assaulted", I have been. I've worked in bars and had bottles thrown at me, still never saw the need the punch anyone in the face, man or woman.

Do you actually think someone who takes a job as a bouncer shouldn't expect people to swing at them every so often? They'd want to be living in cloud cuckoo land not to anticipate that and therefore are much better positioned that the rest of us to know how to deal with it.

alpha13 · 21-04-2017 11:45AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I've seen enough of his type of behaviour to know on the balance of probabilities what kind of a person he is. There aren't too many of them around thankfully. Acting in self-defence means to use appropriate action to defend oneself. Punching a drunk woman? Scumbag.

NOT punch... he slapped her will LITTLE effort.. i think THAT shows a level of restraint and control in itself... unless you are in the situation you dont know how you will react..but you have to be prepared to use violence as people put it.. you dont HAVE to use it... but you do need to be prepared to in case you do have to... i have done door work myself for years too and only ever had to use force once..minimal but necessary.. something i pride myself on..and any situation for a doorman regarding female members..*no offense ladies on this* requires extreme caution and care... he was right not to try and restrain her.. apart from the possible dangers physically..long nails,biting heels and whatever else might be there.. but the risk of threats of groping manhandling sexual harrasement and the rest are VERY real concerns for a door man.... so in an ideal world he shoud not have hit her.. this is far from an ideal world.... if he did have to hit her..which is justified.. then the real question is.. was he excessive in what he did... NO.. she was still standing and moving around with no issue bar emotionally being embarresed in front of everyone.... might make her think twice next time... but he did NOT continue or move in on her or do anything more than the limp stunning slap he gave... hardly a scumbag or thug.... and i ave seen and worked with a few of those!!! he did what he HAD to and reacted instinctually to solve the issue.

21-04-2017 11:50AM

It's a shame he couldn't pepper spray her.

I'd pay to see her drop to the ground with a snoutful of mace.

Take a swing at someone and you take the consequences. She could have walked away at any time.

Wintergirl · 21-04-2017 11:52AM

He could just have grabbed her by the arms, there was another woman nearby though, maybe she was a pal and bouncer thought she would hit(try to hit him too).

He should be ashamed of himself though, she could hardly even stand she was so drunk even if she did put in for it though.

Does this mean parents are entitled to slap hard when a toddler hits them in the face, thats self defence too.

pilly · 21-04-2017 11:54AM

Wintergirl wrote: »

He could just have grabbed her by the arms, there was another woman nearby though, maybe she was a pal and bouncer thought she would hit(try to hit him too).

He should be ashamed of himself though, she could hardly even stand she was so drunk even if she did put in for it though.

Does this mean parents are entitled to slap hard when a toddler hits them in the face, thats self defence too.

According to one poster here, yeah it's okay to punch a child in "self defence". Scary attitudes.

Some people just want to punch others, a lot of them are bouncers.

Icemancometh · 21-04-2017 11:54AM

Wintergirl wrote: »

He could just have grabbed her by the arms, there was another woman nearby though, maybe she was a pal and bouncer thought she would hit(try to hit him too).

He should be ashamed of himself though, she could hardly even stand she was so drunk even if she did put in for it though.

Does this mean parents are entitled to slap hard when a toddler hits them in the face, thats self defence too.

We should treat women like toddlers?

alpha13 · 21-04-2017 11:57AM

riffmongous wrote: »

Can it be instinctive and puled though? If he had the thought to pull the punch and not go full force, then the punch was hardly instinctive anymore

riffmongous wrote: »

How about trying to restraining her? Bouncers do it to people all the time

yes it still can be instinctive.. martial arts students do it all the time..you train the moves and reactions and the body reacts in the situation and calculates the best option even down to the level of force used..all on auto reaction...
also... yes doorstaff restrain people all the time..but you wont see a single doorman restraining a female very often.... only if there is a number of them and even then very wary nowadys...

shamrock55 · 21-04-2017 11:58AM

I think that guy is a disgrace tbh,he is wrong to hit her,if i was there and seen him do that i would have whacked him one,a bully and nothing else

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 11:58AM

pilly wrote: »

The amount of snowflakes on here going on about "assault" is unreal. If you consider a swing from a drunken woman an assault

pilly wrote: »

Absolutely I wouldn't call that assault.

It is assault. It's a criminal offence. Special snowflakes, my ass.

2.?(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly?

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

One eyed Jack · 21-04-2017 12:00PM

alpha13 wrote: »

he did what he HAD to and reacted instinctually to solve the issue.

alpha I'd agree with a lot of what you said alright, but this bit, and the bit about fear of being accused of sexual assault/harrassment - he should have expected it and been prepared for it, rather than being taken by surprise like that. As for the fear of being accused of sexual assault/racism (once or twice I got the "is it cos I is bleck?" type, I couldn't care less if they were purple with green spots), if they're not sexually assaulting anyone they won't have anything to worry about, same as if they don't slap anyone, they won't have anything to worry about. Any time the Gardaí were ever called, they were always more than helpful in those situations.

pilly · 21-04-2017 12:01PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

It is assault. It's a criminal offence. Special snowflakes, my ass.

Proving my point again.

I actually hate using clichés like "snowflake" but I love how it "triggers" the snowflakes.

BattleCorp · 21-04-2017 12:03PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

I think that guy is a disgrace tbh,he is wrong to hit her,if i was there and seen him do that i would have whacked him one,a bully and nothing else

You do realise that, whatever the bouncer did afterwards, the woman assaulted him first.

And now you are advocating that you yourself would assault the bouncer?

The bouncer can claim self defence. Not sure if he would be successful with that claim but at least he'd have a chance.

You, on the other hand, would have no defence as it would be premeditated assault.

Wintergirl · 21-04-2017 12:06PM

She didn't assault him, she didn't even make contact, she was about as much threat as a toddler, she was less in fact because a toddler wouldn't have been drunk as a skunk.

If she had actually managed to land that wild swing then it would be different.

pilly · 21-04-2017 12:06PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

It is assault. It's a criminal offence. Special snowflakes, my ass.

Are you seriously suggesting that every single person who has a swing taken at them by a drunken person over the weekend brings a case for assault before the courts? Even if said swing didn't even cause a scratch?

BattleCorp · 21-04-2017 12:08PM

Wintergirl wrote: »

She didn't assault him, she didn't even make contact, she was about as much threat as a toddler, she was less in fact because a toddler wouldn't have been drunk as a skunk.

If she had actually managed to land that wild swing then it would be different.

Have a look again at the video. Then have a look at the definition of assault.

And if you still think it wasn't assault, then go to Specsavers.

pilly · 21-04-2017 12:08PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

You do realise that, whatever the bouncer did afterwards, the woman assaulted him first.

And now you are advocating that you yourself would assault the bouncer?

The bouncer can claim self defence. Not sure if he would be successful with that claim but at least he'd have a chance.

You, on the other hand, would have no defence as it would be premeditated assault.

So anything the bouncer does afterwards is justified?

Lets say he knocked out her teeth or broke her nose?

Is that okay?

ohnonotgmail · 21-04-2017 12:09PM

pilly wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that every single person who has a swing taken at them by a drunken person over the weekend brings a case for assault before the courts? Even if said swing didn't even cause a scratch?

There was no suggestion of that sort made. But it is still assault and it is a criminal offence. If the punch connects and causes damages then Section 3 applies http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/3/enacted/en/html

You are trying to argue against facts, which is a bit silly

ohnonotgmail · 21-04-2017 12:10PM

pilly wrote: »

So anything the bouncer does afterwards is justified?

Lets say he knocked out her teeth or broke her nose?

Is that okay?

you are starting to sound hysterical.

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 12:10PM

pilly wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that every single person who has a swing taken at them by a drunken person over the weekend brings a case for assault before the courts? Even if said swing didn't even cause a scratch?

That is assault.

Look at the definition in the legislation.

pilly · 21-04-2017 12:14PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are starting to sound hysterical.

No more hysterical than the wimps on here surmising;

What if she had a knife?
What if she had a glass?
What if she had a bunch of keys in her hand?

If we're purely arguing about facts, she took a drunken swing at him, he punched her in the face. Those are the facts. Absolute scumbag.

BattleCorp · 21-04-2017 12:15PM

pilly wrote: »

So anything the bouncer does afterwards is justified?

Lets say he knocked out her teeth or broke her nose?

Is that okay?

I'm not saying that anything the bouncer does afterwards is justified. If he flattened her and kicked her unconscious and kept kicking her, then I believe there would be no justification for that.

He gave her a bit of a slap. In self defence in my honest opinion. I'm guessing he did what he thought was enough to get her to stop attacking him. I think his reaction could be considered proportional. Obviously this is open to debate as it's not a black and white situation and personal opinion comes into it.

Look, she clearly started it by trying to assault him. According to the legal definition, he was assaulted. I don't think that part of it is up for debate.

If she received a broken nose as a result of someone defending themselves from her assault, and this might sound cold and calloused, I've no problem with that. This problem was a matter of her own making. Don't go poking the bear and expect the bear not to react.

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 12:17PM

pilly wrote: »

So anything the bouncer does afterwards is justified? ?

Yes, the bouncer is free to burn the place down and invade North Korea afterwards.

Is that it?

ohnonotgmail · 21-04-2017 12:17PM

pilly wrote: »

No more hysterical than the wimps on here surmising;

What if she had a knife?
What if she had a glass?
What if she had a bunch of keys in her hand?

If we're purely arguing about facts, she took a drunken swing at him, he punched her in the face. Those are the facts. Absolute scumbag.

He slapped her in the face. and just enough to get her away from him. If he had punched her in the face she would have been on her arse.

ZeitgeistGlee · 21-04-2017 12:21PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Never raise your hand to a woman is what i was taught and is what I will teach my son

If people taught their children never to hit anyone (male or female) then this situation would probably never have arisen in the first place.

Purely for my own curiosity will you be teaching your son that it's alright for him to raise his hand to other men? Or if you have a daughter that she can raise her hand to anyone because she's a woman and it somehow doesn't count?

One eyed Jack · 21-04-2017 12:21PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Have a look again at the video. Then have a look at the definition of assault.

And if you still think it wasn't assault, then go to Specsavers.

I did look at the video just now, I actually avoided it up to now because who wants to see a woman being thumped? But for all the "he reacted on instinct, you don't know what happened before that", etc - bullsh*t. In the video it's clear that he ducked to avoid the slap, so it can't be argued that he didn't see it coming, and if this were to happen in Ireland, then he could well find himself still under investigation because he had the opportunity to walk away -

(4) The fact that a person had an opportunity to retreat before using force shall be taken into account, in conjunction with other relevant evidence, in determining whether the use of force was reasonable.

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/20/enacted/en/html#sec20

I wouldn't call the force he used reasonable either, he didn't just hit her a quick slap, it was a full-on follow-through of a smack.

pilly · 21-04-2017 12:30PM

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

If people taught their children never to hit anyone (male or female) then this situation would probably never have arisen in the first place.

Purely for my own curiosity will you be teaching your son that it's alright for him to raise his hand to other men? Or if you have a daughter that she can raise her hand to anyone because she's a woman and it somehow doesn't count?

I've already taught all my children that it's not acceptable to engage in violence of any kind and amazingly enough they're all grown up well adjusted happy adults who have never laid a hand on another person, male or female.

And yes they have had incidents when people might have thrown drunken swings, easy solution, walk away. And as mentioned above I've had bottles thrown at me and managed not to punch anyone either.

If more people taught their children these values we wouldn't have the amount of young people murdered that we have today.

Coincidentally heard a story last night about a man who's kid was being bullied giving his 13 year old kid a hurly stick and sending him after the other guy.

Then we wonder why young men are being murdered?

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 12:32PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I did look at the video just now, I actually avoided it up to now

After all of your posts, you hadn't even watched it?

You could make up your mind that the bouncer was wrong before you ever watched the video clip?

I wouldn't want you on a jury.

21-04-2017 12:39PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Never raise your hand to a woman is what i was taught and is what I will teach my son,

What would you teach your daughter? It's ok to have a pop at a man cos he can't hit you back? People should be telling their sons and daughters it's never ok to hit anyone, male or female. It's that simple IMO. Why make the distinction?

One eyed Jack · 21-04-2017 12:43PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

After all of your posts, you hadn't even watched it?

You could make up your mind that the bouncer was wrong before you ever watched the video clip?

I wouldn't want you on a jury.

We're not in a court of law now though, we're on a website where particularly in After Hours you're going to get a couple of hard bastards who are all for "equality" when it comes to thumping women.

That's why I said to one poster that they don't need anyone else's permission to do what they're going to do anyway, they're still wrong to do it IMO, but the law as it could be applied in those circumstances is an entirely different matter - it's not simply the definition of assault that matters, but what could be determined to be reasonable self-defence.

ZeitgeistGlee · 21-04-2017 12:45PM

pilly wrote: »

I've already taught all my children that it's not acceptable to engage in violence of any kind and amazingly enough they're all grown up well adjusted happy adults who have never laid a hand on another person, male or female.

And yes they have had incidents when people might have thrown drunken swings, easy solution, walk away. And as mentioned above I've had bottles thrown at me and managed not to punch anyone either.

If more people taught their children these values we wouldn't have the amount of young people murdered that we have today.

Coincidentally heard a story last night about a man who's kid was being bullied giving his 13 year old kid a hurly stick and sending him after the other guy.

Then we wonder why young men are being murdered?

Any particular reason you answered the question I posed to another poster pilly?

FWIW fair play (genuinely) to you for teaching your children not to react violently, I'm glad to hear they have internalised it. Although at the same time it's a pity we have to laud people for teaching what is supposed to be normal social interaction. I agree a strong element of the problem is down to how these people were raised as children.

Bouncer punches woman who tried to punch him.

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