Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

Tell me how · 18-04-2017 09:04PM

yosser hughes wrote:

Not just my opinion apparently

Meh

Footoo · 19-04-2017 08:13AM

yosser hughes wrote: »

In Your opinion she is excellent. I never knew who she was until I heard her talking about something and I had to look up who it was. She was ignorant of the subject being discussed.
She is on so often because she is female. Tokenism. That's all.

She's been a sports journalist with the Independent for the best part of 20 years , if not more. I'd imagine there is absolutely no tokenism involved.

Ursus Horribilis · 19-04-2017 08:32AM

There also might be a lot of journalists who don't want to spend their Sundays in a studio talking about the papers. Or indeed, ones who are good at writing but not good radio guests.

PeterTheNinth · 19-04-2017 08:37AM

Footoo wrote: »

I'd imagine there is absolutely no tokenism involved.

I think there is an element of tokenism. She's certainly not there for entertainment value. And she has a habit of shoehorning in minority female sports that are of no significance to anybody but herself. I think the topics being discussed should be there on merit, and not because of one contributor thinks there should be more coverage of female sports.

ThisRegard · 19-04-2017 09:07AM

You think she's the only woman that listens to the show who may be interested in sports that woman play? You're coming across a bit sexist on this.

Footoo · 19-04-2017 10:53AM

PeterTheNinth wrote: »

I think there is an element of tokenism. She's certainly not there for entertainment value. And she has a habit of shoehorning in minority female sports that are of no significance to anybody but herself. I think the topics being discussed should be there on merit, and not because of one contributor thinks there should be more coverage of female sports.

She mainly just discusses the papers in the same way that all the other contributors do.To be fair to her she has a great deal of knowledge of and interest a wide variety of sports,even for a girl!!!!
Obviously if a topic that a contributor excels in is being discussed, they will talk more forcefully about that issue. Kimmage is a perfect example of that. It makes total sense.

Jayesdiem · 19-04-2017 02:08PM

Some harsh enough views on Cliona Foley I think. Women can irritate when they talk about sport but I think she has some talent as a commentator.

djemba djemba · 19-04-2017 02:13PM

I hear cliona when she contributes to the Sean O'Rourke show the odd time. Can't say I am a big fan. They have another female contributor who is called orla I think. She is a lot better than cliona

Dots1982 · 19-04-2017 03:10PM

I think its quite a comment on some of our journalists that one of the ones that come across best and most knowledgable on the paper review was Mario Rosenstock.

Paul Kimmage gets a lot of love on here but he hasn't a bloody notion on most sports especially the biggest ones.

Footoo · 19-04-2017 04:25PM

See I didn't like Mario at all when he was on. Horses for courses I guess.

I assume we can all agree on one thing though...Stephen Kenny was absolutely woeful on it!

OldMrBrennan83 · 19-04-2017 04:32PM

This post has been deleted.

Dots1982 · 19-04-2017 05:10PM

Footoo wrote: »

See I didn't like Mario at all when he was on. Horses for courses I guess.

I assume we can all agree on one thing though...Stephen Kenny was absolutely woeful on it!

Ok I'll give a run down on how i rate (in no order) the ones that i tend to hear the most.

Declan Lynch - came out with probably the best comment ever on the review by saying the FAI were the incompetent organisation that other incompentent organisations considered the galaticos of incompetence.

But apart from that he is prone to silly exaggerations; his speech about the gambling industry springs to mind.. that once you gamble, that the industry are always going to "get you" was complete hyperbole. Most of us are able to gamble, enjoy it and not ruin our lives. He was also unconvincing when speaking about Dunphy and Giles and the glory days of real journalism of Hot press.

Kieran Cunningham - good & solid but a little bit overly mannered.

Joe Brolly - a good draw for ratings but as I always say about Brolly you will learn nothing about GAA or sport by listening to him. He lives in Brollyland, not Ireland.

Cliona Foley - not good, dull, no humour, prone to interrupting, that laugh and voice, her involvement always seems to push the discussion to vague nowheres, on her last chance with me, didn't listen to this week's yet

Gary O'Toole - surprised he's popular, find him alright, not particularly knowledgeable, no real sense of humour, a little earnest, a brilliant man clearly who i would like to hear talk about his job as a surgeon rather than sport, his story about Jason Mcateer stuck in my craw a bit as I don't like Mcateer but that's a personal thing.

Mario Rosenstock - knowledgeable without being full of himself and with agreeable, well thought out & passionate opinions. Funny as well.

Paul Kimmage - always listenable but his impact is wearing off. Clearly hasn't a notion about soccer, GAA or Rugby. He can lionise certain individuals that are not worthy of praise in my view (Brolly springs to mind). Again not particularly funny or clever just passion, passion and more scattershot passion.

Paul Rouse - he's ok, I find it hard to agree with him on anything on GAA so my relationship to listening to him is doomed I guess.

Unfortunately the likes of Ken Early or Mark Horgan would be excellent on it but will probably never appear.

I'm probably being a bit over critical since I listen to almost everyone but would give a lot of credit to Joe Molloy for that. Maybe there are good lads like Ian O'riordan or Gavin Cummiskey that I don't notice because they aren't as recognisable.

I think the show could do with more conflict, when Kimmage is on I would love someone to tell him that while doping is wrong, dopers aren't murderers or even criminals. They are practical people who want to be rich and know its dope or fail. Likewise Declan Lynch talks about nonsense most of the time that is left completely unchecked.

Also the theme of modern journalists not getting access to top sports stars is overdone at this stage.

Jayesdiem · 19-04-2017 09:21PM

Good comment on Kimmage. The drugs obsession is totally creepy at this stage and seems to be the driving force of his entire existence. Much of that has rubbed off on Joe and Ger who are frighteningly offended by drugs in sport to an incredible degree. I wonder why any of the three can even watch sport anymore given how impure they perceive it to be.

Tell me how · 19-04-2017 09:55PM

Jayesdiem wrote:

Good comment on Kimmage. The drugs obsession is totally creepy at this stage and seems to be the driving force of his entire existence. Much of that has rubbed off on Joe and Ger who are frighteningly offended by drugs in sport to an incredible degree. I wonder why any of the three can even watch sport anymore given how impure they perceive it to be.

They're not making it up though are they. It's scary how it has become acceptable for some just because they're sick of hearing about it.

dominatinMC · 19-04-2017 10:09PM

Tell me how wrote: »

They're not making it up though are they. It's scary how it has become acceptable for some just because they're sick of hearing about it.

That's the bigger point here. Criticise Kimmage all you want (and he certainly has his flaws) but were it not for journalists like him crusading and dedicating their life (not just career) to investigating drugs in sport, we would most likely still be oblivious to all the nefarious on-goings in sport which have recently been revealed. I don't think Kimmage does what he does for any personal gain, he was often the sole voice rallying against popular opinion (e.g. Lance case) so, if anything, he should be commended.

Jayesdiem · 19-04-2017 10:17PM

But most people just don't care. I'm one of them.

Kimmage often dresses it up as his concern for athlete safety but that's laughable. There are many reasons but that isn't one of them.

Tell me how · 19-04-2017 10:19PM

dominatinMC wrote:

That's the bigger point here. Criticise Kimmage all you want (and he certainly has his flaws) but were it not for journalists like him crusading and dedicating their life (not just career) to investigating drugs in sport, we would most likely still be oblivious to all the nefarious on-goings in sport which have recently been revealed. I don't think Kimmage does what he does for any personal gain, he was often the sole voice rallying against popular opinion (e.g. Lance case) so, if anything, he should be commended.

That would be my view also. I believe that when the likes of Kimmage stop fighting on that front that it will become easier for governing bodies to drop off in their efforts to catch and discipline cheats. IOC have no interest in catching cheats. They've an interest in being seen to try to catch cheats.

When the public become tolerant of cheats, the testing will stop. When the testing stops, it won't be sport any more. It will be science. Uncontrolled and driven by money. Who would like their child going in to that world?

Kimmage deserves praise as much as continuing with the fight as for the fight itself when so many wish he'd just stfu.

Loafing Oaf · 19-04-2017 10:20PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Good comment on Kimmage. The drugs obsession is totally creepy at this stage and seems to be the driving force of his entire existence. Much of that has rubbed off on Joe and Ger who are frighteningly offended by drugs in sport to an incredible degree. I wonder why any of the three can even watch sport anymore given how impure they perceive it to be.

Well this is the thing, if you believe that a particular sport (cough, athletics & cycling, cough) is totally corrupted by drugs, why bother paying any attention to it?

Tell me how · 19-04-2017 10:21PM

Jayesdiem wrote:

But most people just don't care. I'm one of them.

Kimmage often dresses it up as his concern for athlete safety but that's laughable. There are many reasons but that isn't one of them.

How could you question Kimmages motivation regarding his fight against drugs. On what basis?

Genuinely saddened that some just don't care about drugs in sport.

applehunter · 19-04-2017 10:43PM

Tell me how wrote: »

How could you question Kimmages motivation regarding his fight against drugs. On what basis?

Genuinely saddened that some just don't care about drugs in sport.

The lads on off the ball have said they don't care about the next Olympics or the Tour de France.

But the big elephant in the room is soccer. It is the sport with the most money but it is the golden goose.

dominatinMC · 19-04-2017 10:46PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

But most people just don't care. I'm one of them.

Kimmage often dresses it up as his concern for athlete safety but that's laughable. There are many reasons but that isn't one of them.

I wouldn't agree with you there. Most people are oblivious to what's actually happening in sport (because of a lack of journalists like Kimmage) and tend to believe the narrative/myth perpetrated by the media. Again, using the Lance example, the general public didn't believe the drug rumours in the beginning but, as a result of the investigations by Kimmage, Walsh, etc., they learned the truth, and I would say the fallout was pretty significant. I can see something similar happening with Mo Farrah. Also, just hypothetically speaking, imagine the fallout if Usain Bolt was ever proven to have doped, would people still not care then??

ThisRegard · 19-04-2017 11:14PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

I think its quite a comment on some of our journalists that one of the ones that come across best and most knowledgable on the paper review was Mario Rosenstock.
.

He was brutal, one of the few times I switched off.

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well this is the thing, if you believe that a particular sport (cough, athletics & cycling, cough) is totally corrupted by drugs, why bother paying any attention to it?

But yet we know soccer is, and corrupted by much more than that, and yet people inexplicably live their life by it.

applehunter · 19-04-2017 11:50PM

Get Eamonn Sweeney on.

They praise him on the show every week.

I wonder how Cliona Foley feels about this race in Fairyhouse on Tuesday.

Today FM Ladies National Handicap Steeplechase of €20,000.00

No male jockies allowed.

Jayesdiem · 20-04-2017 06:31AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Good comment on Kimmage. The drugs obsession is totally creepy at this stage and seems to be the driving force of his entire existence. Much of that has rubbed off on Joe and Ger who are frighteningly offended by drugs in sport to an incredible degree. I wonder why any of the three can even watch sport anymore given how impure they perceive it to be.

Well this is the thing, if you believe that a particular sport (cough, athletics & cycling, cough) is totally corrupted by drugs, why bother paying any attention to it?

I think because drugs are present in all sports anyway and also because what constitutes a performance enhancing drug is pretty subjective. A tame example here but caffeine and pseudoephedrine (common cold remedy) have been on the banned list, then off again, then on again - legal one minute, illegal the next. The lads on the show are just so misinformed - they are on Farah's case for L-carnitine usage. This is basically a vitamin yet they are disgusted.

Jayesdiem · 20-04-2017 06:38AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Jayesdiem wrote:

But most people just don't care. I'm one of them.

Kimmage often dresses it up as his concern for athlete safety but that's laughable. There are many reasons but that isn't one of them.

How could you question Kimmages motivation regarding his fight against drugs. On what basis?

Genuinely saddened that some just don't care about drugs in sport.

It's a gut feeling. He has this "won't someone please think of the children attitude" that comes across as false as it sounds. Kimmage needs to stay relevant as a journalist to make a crust. The drugs have facilitated that over a long period of time so human nature being what it is, he goes back to that well repeatedly. His attempts to diversify into the "sport du jour" -rugby- aren't credible because we all know he hasn't a clue about it. But it didn't stop him taking the drugs angle in that sport too (French rugby etc) - it's just that it didn't last because he was met with an audience who just wants to watch their sport in piece, rather than agonise over the off-field decisions that players make.

elefant · 20-04-2017 07:49AM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

The lads on the show are just so misinformed - they are on Farah's case for L-carnitine usage. This is basically a vitamin yet they are disgusted.

I think you've brought this up before? Apologies if it was someone different.

It's not L-Carnitine being taken by athletes for medical reasons or because of genetic deficiencies, just like it isn't steroids being taken for people with Lupus that the controversy is about.

It's world class athletes being pumped to the gills with L-Carnitine to help them beat other athletes who may be trying to reach a life goal through honest hard work.

The fact you can say that doping is basically taking vitamins shows why journalists like Kimmage are important, as annoying as he can be at times.

Jayesdiem · 20-04-2017 08:00AM

Crikey it isn't LIKE taking vitamins. It IS a vitamin (or sometimes classified as an amino acid) for crying out loud. It's not doping and is not even banned. This is what I am generally talking about - people commenting on things that they ought not to.

elefant · 20-04-2017 08:12AM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Crikey it isn't LIKE taking vitamins. It IS a vitamin (or sometimes classified as an amino acid) for crying out loud. It's not doping and is not even banned. This is what I am generally talking about - people commenting on things that they ought not to.

And blood doping is just boosting red blood cells. It's the most natural thing in the world; fire away.

Tell me how · 20-04-2017 08:15AM

Jayesdiem wrote:

Crikey it isn't LIKE taking vitamins. It IS a vitamin (or sometimes classified as an amino acid) for crying out loud. It's not doping and is not even banned. This is what I am generally talking about - people commenting on things that they ought not to.

USADA are said to have concluded that Farahs ingestion of L-carnitine via intravenous methods was dubious.

Do you think they're entitled to comment in that way?

dr.kenneth noisewater · 20-04-2017 08:46AM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Tell me how wrote: »

Jayesdiem wrote:

But most people just don't care. I'm one of them.

Kimmage often dresses it up as his concern for athlete safety but that's laughable. There are many reasons but that isn't one of them.

How could you question Kimmages motivation regarding his fight against drugs. On what basis?

Genuinely saddened that some just don't care about drugs in sport.

It's a gut feeling. He has this "won't someone please think of the children attitude" that comes across as false as it sounds. Kimmage needs to stay relevant as a journalist to make a crust. The drugs have facilitated that over a long period of time so human nature being what it is, he goes back to that well repeatedly. His attempts to diversify into the "sport du jour" -rugby- aren't credible because we all know he hasn't a clue about it. But it didn't stop him taking the drugs angle in that sport too (French rugby etc) - it's just that it didn't last because he was met with an audience who just wants to watch their sport in piece, rather than agonise over the off-field decisions that players make.

He could easily have moved into easier areas of sports journalism over the past decade or even just wrote glowing articles on cyclists and how great they are if he just wanted to "make a crust", it would have been the easy way out. It's the fact that the genuinely cares about cycling that made him go down that path.
He might not have a clue about rugby but he knows about painkillers and PED's and the effects they have on the human body more than most(remember he was a top athlete himself) and its fairly worrying that most people dont want to know about it.

Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

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