NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

AidenL · 04-04-2017 09:57PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It seems to me to be simply because eir is likely to connect up those premises with a subsidy from the gov because they are in the NBP listing.
There might also be some physical reason for not doing them initially and so might need to charge extra for connections.

But isnt it the amber homes in the NBP, but they are being bypassed? Or am I reading it wrong? The light blues are the Eir contracted homes?

marno21 · 04-04-2017 10:01PM

And here's the discussion with Minister Denis Naugthen on the NBP from the Last Word today.

http://www.filedropper.com/thelastword04april2

ItHurtsWhenIP · 04-04-2017 10:08PM

user1842 wrote: »

I wish this was given to ESB/Vofafone to do the entire roll-out. You could get rid of all the telephones poles in the countryside and just have one cable entering your house. It would save so much network maintenance costs in the long run and thus reduce internet costs.

But alas, it was not be

With Siro you will have a second cable coming to your house with the fibre. So it's not "one cable entering your house" ... it's still going to be two ... as there are two networks being maintained (electric and fibre).

user1842 · 04-04-2017 10:15PM

Yes I know this, what i meant by one cable was that the cables come from one pole at one location, I should have been more clear.

Two networks being maintained, yes, but one infrastructure to get the networks to your house. A lot more efficient in the long term.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 04-04-2017 10:55PM

marno21 wrote: »

Discussion with The Last Word "tech expert" Andy O'Donoghue on the NBP today.

"Wires should not have a part in this plan". I won't go on a rant but the level of misinformation here is shocking.

http://www.filedropper.com/thelastword04april1

Because I'm a masochist I decided to listen to that. Let's hitch our wagon to a completely unproven technology that has not even launched yet. It beggars belief.

joe_99 · 04-04-2017 11:24PM

daraghwal wrote: »

Isn't eir the only company can use the splitters etc. that they put up during the 300,000?

No. NBP bidders can access them too. DN stated it in the presentation.

daraghwal · 04-04-2017 11:27PM

joe_99 wrote: »

No. NBP bidders can access them too. DN stated it in the presentation.

How can the government make open eir let siro/enet piggyback off their network to extend their own? Would that not cause nightmares with faults etc.?

Johnboy1951 · 04-04-2017 11:34PM

AidenL wrote: »

But isnt it the amber homes in the NBP, but they are being bypassed? Or am I reading it wrong? The light blues are the Eir contracted homes?

The 'amber homes' are not yet being serviced and won't be until the contracts for the NBP are in place, when whoever wins the contracts will receive a subsidy for each amber house connected.

BlinkingLights · 04-04-2017 11:44PM

daraghwal wrote: »

How can the government make open eir let siro/enet piggyback off their network to extend their own? Would that not cause nightmares with faults etc.?

Not if it's setup correctly.

OpenEir, Siro and Enet don't sell services directly anyway. They're all wholesale operations.

Consumers will be dealing with a service provider : Eir, Sky, Vodafone, Digiweb, Magnet etc etc - they shouldn't have to worry about the infrastructure providers any more than they do now. I mean your broadband might come from Sky but be provided by BT Ireland over OpenEir access networks with international connectivity from maybe 4 or 5 different networks. I don't see why this proposal would be any different
.

ED E · 05-04-2017 12:05AM

daraghwal wrote: »

How can the government make open eir let siro/enet piggyback off their network to extend their own? Would that not cause nightmares with faults etc.?

Depends on what form you're talking about too.

The access network cant practically be split. It can be virtual unbundled the hardware operator stays the same.

The core network is already "pieced together" for lack of a better phrase.

Eg:
Vodafone customer. Home to exchange: OpenEir. Exchange to local big town: OpenEir. Big Town to Vodafone POP: BT Wholesale.

ED E · 05-04-2017 12:18AM

Naughten really smothered his own face in egg by not even knowing the high level figures.

Until we see a DECNR PDF with details lets not take anything as official.

long_b · 05-04-2017 12:24AM

Figures from Wrecker all seem to be for premises passed.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 05-04-2017 02:48AM

rob808 wrote: »

would they be counting FTTC connections with that figure.

KOR101 wrote: »

@Navi........what do you make of this on p.33) ?

russian pic hosting

The first milestone date was the 31st December 2016. The Minister says this was reached with 10000 premises passed.

The closest data I have is an Openeir update from the 22/12/2016. I added up all the premises in this update including those urban areas included in the first 100K and I got 9980. Bear in mind this is assuming full completion of nearly all the urban areas in the rural plan (Castlebar 1100, Ennis 430 etc). I don't know how realistic this is.

Thinking more about it if we are to believe that the second milestone of 40000 premises passed is to be met then they are going to have to include some of the 10% of premises that are to get VDSL as they are way off 40000 with FTTH even with including the urban areas.

The catch is I don't believe there is any way of identifying the ~30000 premises due to get VDSL or even which exchange areas they are in.

It is quite conceivable that they have been "padding out" their premises passed numbers with the VDSL portion of the plan.

KOR101 · 05-04-2017 08:34AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/broadband-deal-not-quite-the-showpiece-naughten-hoped-for-1.3036755

Johnboy1951 · 05-04-2017 08:39AM

We should bear in mind that from the perspective of this agreement (and the NBP) there is no real preference for fibre over any other means of connection. There are other requirements of course to qualify for gov intervention and the NBP.
Provided the minimum connection speeds are attained the premises are out of the NBP.
So, yes, this contract, and the figures quoted within, would cover any and all connection types made that take the premises out of the NBP.

It is unfortunate, that from our perspective, it is not what we wanted to see, nor what we were led to expect.
We wanted to see FTTH connections separated from all other types of connection.
But from a user's point of view, it matters very little what their connection type is (wireless, VDSL, FTTH etc) provided they have a sufficient connection for their needs.

My fear would be that in say 5 years time, when the minimum requirement for useful broadband has risen to maybe 100Mb/s there will be a huge number of premises which will not be able to get that speed without further investment from eir in their vdsl roll out. It might not get that investment without 'encouragement'.

We might yet see a new digital divide.

Villain · 05-04-2017 08:56AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

We should bear in mind that from the perspective of this agreement (and the NBP) there is no real preference for fibre over any other means of connection. There are other requirements of course to qualify for gov intervention and the NBP.
Provided the minimum connection speeds are attained the premises are out of the NBP.
So, yes, this contract, and the figures quoted within, would cover any and all connection types made that take the premises out of the NBP.

It is unfortunate, that from our perspective, it is not what we wanted to see, nor what we were led to expect.
We wanted to see FTTH connections separated from all other types of connection.
But from a user's point of view, it matters very little what their connection type is (wireless, VDSL, FTTH etc) provided they have a sufficient connection for their needs.

My fear would be that in say 5 years time, when the minimum requirement for useful broadband has risen to maybe 100Mb/s there will be a huge number of premises which will not be able to get that speed without further investment from eir in their vdsl roll out. It might not get that investment without 'encouragement'.

We might yet see a new digital divide.

Yep agree with that, if you are in a light blue area and served by vDSL and meet the 30/6 speeds then in years to come you may well be the ones to left behind when amber areas get actual FTTH.

This new contract with eir is a pure mess and has so many issues I could write for weeks

KOR101 · 05-04-2017 09:21AM

The viability of the state-subsidised broadband initiative has been called into question after a deal to remove hundreds of thousands of homes from the scheme was agreed with one of the bidders.

Brian Stanley and Thomas Pringle give it their all.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eir-deal-may-jeopardise-rural-broadband-tk89wm2kq

rob808 · 05-04-2017 09:28AM

KOR101 wrote: »

The viability of the state-subsidised broadband initiative has been called into question after a deal to remove hundreds of thousands of homes from the scheme was agreed with one of the bidders.

Brian Stanley and Thomas Pringle give it their all.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eir-deal-may-jeopardise-rural-broadband-tk89wm2kq

KOR101 can you copy and paste the full article if you can thanks.

KOR101 · 05-04-2017 09:47AM

rob808 wrote: »

KOR101 can you copy and paste the full article if you can thanks.

Rob, I don't think we're supposed to do full articles, and there's really nothing new in it. Some paragraphs........

Brian Stanley, a Sinn FÃ©in TD, said Denis Naughten, the communications minister, must ensure that private commercial interests do not â€œjeopardise the roll out of the NBPâ€.â€œWe have a situation now where one of bidders for procurement on the NBP has cherrypicked locations in the intervention area to deliver broadband only where it is commercially profitable,â€ he said. â€œThis could lead to a situation where some of the remaining harder to reach areas of the country are left without broadband connection as it becomes commercially unappealing for any bidder to deliver high-speed broadband to the more remote areas of the country.â€
Thomas Pringle, an independent TD for Donegal, said the deal with the stateâ€™s largest telecoms operator raised â€œserious ethical questionsâ€. He added: â€œDelays of up to a decade can be expected if the governmentâ€™s deal with Eir goes ahead. Thatâ€™s because the government is giving Eir the cream of the crop in terms of houses with easier accessibility, which the government was initially taking on as part of the plan.â€
Eir denied that it had cherrypicked locations and said a number of financial penalties were in place if it did not fulfil its side of the deal.

BlinkingLights · 05-04-2017 09:55AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Yes 300 premises in Carrigaline and 490 in Swords

http://www.openeir.ie/news/First-rural-FTTH-locations-announced/

That's about as "rural Ireland" as Henry Street.

I noticed they were chucking large chunks of Co. Dublin and Cork City's hinterland into that category. Probably a handy way of claiming they're doing a lot more 'rural' than they really are.

Siro seems to talk about "connecting regional towns" then throws Cork City into that.
I'm not sure whether it's figure massaging or just the usual "Dublin" vs "Down the country" that chucks all the other cities in to the same bag as remote villages.

rob808 · 05-04-2017 10:09AM

Deedsie wrote: »

Is there a date set out for the tendering process for the remaining 500000 houses covered by the NBP? When can we expect to hear anything about that?

It suppose to be June but see it slipping to next year it doesn't help that the minister won't give a date.

user1842 · 05-04-2017 10:18AM

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Commitment%20Agreement.pdf

Can someone tell me where in the contract does it say that 90% of EIR's roll-out will be FTTH?

It just says that it will be min 30Mbps download and 6Mbps upload.

Basically DN stuck something on a presentation with no basis is fact with regard to the contract.

Therefore expect VDSL and wireless for all and maybe a couple of lucky few will get FTTH.

I hope im wrong

ACLFC7 · 05-04-2017 10:24AM

user1842 wrote: »

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Commitment%20Agreement.pdf

Can someone tell me where in the contract does it say that 90% of EIR's roll-out will be FTTH?

Page 3

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Press%20Release%2004%20Apr%202017.pdf

Edit: Sorry didn't realise you said "In the contract"

The Cush · 05-04-2017 10:30AM

Deedsie wrote: »

Is there a date set out for the tendering process for the remaining 500000 houses covered by the NBP? When can we expect to hear anything about that?

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/state-intervention/Pages/Procurement.aspx

No specific dates mentioned. It now moves onto step 4, the press release states "the next phase is the Invitation to Submit Detailed Solutions (ISDS). This is an invitation to bidders to submit their proposed solutions and is the stage before bidders are asked to submit final bids".

AidenL · 05-04-2017 10:34AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The 'amber homes' are not yet being serviced and won't be until the contracts for the NBP are in place, when whoever wins the contracts will receive a subsidy for each amber house connected.

Yep, but doesn't that meant that the hardest to serve, furthest away homes will be done first by Eir, long before the NBP?

AidenL · 05-04-2017 10:36AM

Villain wrote: »

Yep agree with that, if you are in a light blue area and served by vDSL and meet the 30/6 speeds then in years to come you may well be the ones to left behind when amber areas get actual FTTH.

This new contract with eir is a pure mess and has so many issues I could write for weeks

Is it not more likely though that the light blue areas will get FTTH as they are more remote and spread out whereas amber near a town may be served by VDSL?

AidenL · 05-04-2017 10:40AM

Enet have announced they are coming to my town, but I believe they serve businesses only?

How will that fit in around the NBP which also is covering the same town?

Johnboy1951 · 05-04-2017 10:49AM

AidenL wrote: »

Yep, but doesn't that meant that the hardest to serve, furthest away homes will be done first by Eir, long before the NBP?

No, eir have committed to doing ONLY the light blue premises unsubsidised.
They - like other contenders for the contracts - will do the amber premises with a subsidy IF they get a contract.

Is it not more likely though that the light blue areas will get FTTH as they are more remote and spread out whereas amber near a town may be served by VDSL?

I think it likely that some light blue and amber areas will get VDSL as suits eir and their plans.

AidenL · 05-04-2017 11:18AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

No, eir have committed to doing ONLY the light blue premises unsubsidised.
They - like other contenders for the contracts - will do the amber premises with a subsidy IF they get a contract.

I think it likely that some light blue and amber areas will get VDSL as suits eir and their plans.

We are saying the same thing here.

Light blue, further away, unsubsidised, harder to reach, but done first, with faster speeds.

Amber, closer, subsidised, done last and slower speeds.

Whole thing seems illogical to me.

Johnboy1951 · 05-04-2017 11:21AM

AidenL wrote: »

We are saying the same thing here.

Light blue, further away, unsubsidised, harder to reach, but done first, with faster speeds.

Amber, closer, subsidised, done last and slower speeds.

Whole thing seems illogical to me.

The vast majority of the amber area is well outside light blue or dark blue areas, so no we are not saying the same thing if I am correctly reading what you wrote.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Comments