BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Mebuntu · 31-03-2017 09:16PM

I guess we'll know for sure soon enough when the results of the upcoming ballots are made known. There's clearly a cohort within all three companies' workforces orchestrating these wild-cat actions. I sincerely hope the majorities in DB (quite possible) and IR (rather unlikely) don't get taken in.

I'd be very pessimistic about this. They all, without exception, refused to pass makeshift and illegal pickets this morning so I cannot see them not supporting the strikers in the ballot. Even if they DID decide against supporting BE workers in the ballot, if it came to the crunch they still would not pass any pickets (legal or illegal) which will, undoubtedly, be placed in their way again. It's in their DNA and there is nobody within who has the courage to change that.

With the Minister, rightly, sticking to his guns, the unions sticking to theirs, more illegal strikes likely and BE in dire financial distress (and getting worse) there is no point in allowing the current situation to go on indefinitely. Much better to waste no more time and liquidate BE now and be done with it.

Arcade_Tryer · 31-03-2017 09:24PM

devnull wrote: »

If they are getting such a bad rap on TheJournal they must really be lacking in support, since that site normally would be very pro-union and mainly read by populists and left leaners.

Nonsense. The Journal is a cesspit of nationalist conservatism. The Journal comment section is where civil discourse and critical thinking go to die.

It's a significant step down from Facebook comments.

road_high · 31-03-2017 09:35PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In workplaces like BE, DB, IE you be brave to tell anyone your thaughts regarding present actions. Within these companies there is a hardline militant element. These people are of the hard left supporting SF, AAA and PBP. They live in a cocoon and believes that in a socialist uthopia where money grows on trees

That much was obvious from the news tonight...you could see exactly the types you describe in Waterford (no surprises there eh), meeting fellow communist anarchist agitator Halligan...after today I'm totally convinced Minister Ross' approach is the right one...hopefully it'll lead to more competitive and reliable and better value private options on more routes and timetables...

Hilly Bill · 31-03-2017 09:37PM

Quackster wrote: »

As I said, they wouldn't have mounted those secondary pickets unless they knew in advance that their colleagues in DB and IR would be supportive of that action.

That's nonsense, if you picket anywhere someone won't cross it. They weren't told in advance that's it OK to picket. They mounted the pickets to force others not to go to work.

Brendan Bendar · 31-03-2017 09:44PM

road_high wrote: »

That much was obvious from the news tonight...you could see exactly the types you describe in Waterford (no surprises there eh), meeting fellow communist anarchist agitator Halligan...after today I'm totally convinced Minister Ross' approach is the right one...hopefully it'll lead to more competitive and reliable abs better value private options on more routes and timetables...

Agree totally, Minister Ross, who I will admit I had little time for previously, has really stood up for the taxpayer on this issue.

He has cried halt to the Unions who thought they saw the current situation as an opotunity to gouge John Taxpayer.

This is not over yet, but in my opinion unless the Unions in the Transport industry realise that they cannot shut down the country,and unless the Govt. realise that they can't have the transport industry run buy the people who run it, have the ability to shut down the country at a whim, with no consequences, then we are in the deep stuff.

Quackster · 31-03-2017 09:47PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That's nonsense, you picket anywhere and someone won't cross it. They weren't told in advance that's it OK to picket. They mounted the pickets to force others not to go to work.

No, you generally picket your own place of work if you're in dispute with your employer. You don't picket 'anywhere' you feel like it.

These pickets were orchestrated to give DB and IR staff (whether they wanted to or not) 'legitimate' reason for staying out of work for a few hours.

end of the road · 31-03-2017 09:51PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are incorrect BE is not structurally necessary for this country. Tendering has proved itself successful right across Europe so no need to fight against it.

i don't agree. it hasn't proved successful to me so i will support the transport unions in fighting it as i believe it's aim is about driving down terms and conditions and that must not happen.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect this strike is going to cause the liquidation of BE so a signal will be send

there is no signal to be sent. the transport unions are going nowhere and nothing will change that. as long as the members wish to be members there will be unions.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This is totally incorrect over 50% of people support the government on this. The reason we have unaffordable tax after unaffordable tax is because actions like this in the noughties when a government that had access to wads of cash threw it around the public service like confetti and did not carry out any structural change.

there is no evidence that over 50% of the public support the government. probably about 40% at a stretch. fg have proven unfit to govern the country in the eyes of the majority so the majority won't support them.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect the reason alot of ordinary workers do not join unions is in there case unions have nothing to offer.

they have lots to offer but if one is afraid to stand up for themselves then that can't be helped.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That is up to a court to decide the onus of proof in civil actions mean a defendant has to produce counter argument/evidence so you are incorrect when you post innocent until proven guilty

nope, innocent until proven guilty.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am afraid this is incorrect the main reason we not have night services is the sectors that are from the old CIE are too expensive to run them Private sector operators provide night services to Dublin Airport from all over the country. BE in general stops at or before midnight it miniscule late service and resumes these miniscules services at 6am at the earliest. This is proven when employers in Cork Limerick and Galway over the years had to provide company buses to get workers to and from work.

nope, the reason we have little night services is nobody wishes to pay. the state companies are cheep in terms of subsidy, if they weren't we wouldn't have among the lowest subsidy in europe and the amount of services we have for it. be have night services.

ebbsy · 31-03-2017 09:53PM

Mebuntu wrote: »

...and now they are targetting the schoolchildren of the country.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-could-be-hit-next-as-bus-ireann-school-bus-drivers-to-ballot-on-strike-action-35583148.html

These people have no morals whatsoever. Even the kids are human shields.

MKH · 31-03-2017 09:54PM

If strikes are illegal, they are illegal. If you or I do something illegal, we'd probably be a bit concerned doing it out in the open like these people have done. If a small gang of communist cranks and thugs can challenge the State without consequence then how legitimate is that State in the first place?

L1011 · 31-03-2017 09:55PM

end of the road wrote: »

there is no evidence that over 50% of the public support the government. probably about 40% at a stretch. fg have proven unfit to govern the country in the eyes of the majority so the majority won't support them.

There is a SIPTU funded poll - so you can be certain that the question was loaded as hell - that shows 20% support for the strike and over 50% support for the government. Ask a non loaded question and you could be at 70%

end of the road · 31-03-2017 09:57PM

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't have much time for unions. Of course they have a time and a place, but I think they really are a dying concept.

not for much longer. union membership is going to start rising.

NIMAN wrote: »

I have been working for a US multinational for over 20 years, and they don't recognise unions. Has it hindered our workplace or its employees? No.

it hasn't hindered it yet. when your terms are eradicated though you will be crying for representation from a union. even if a company refuses to recognise a union a union can be valueable and they can still advise you what to do if the company tries to pull a fast one should it ever happen.

NIMAN wrote: »

Time to play hardball for the Gov.

there is no hardball to play.

L1011 wrote: »

Unite have a hostile takeover of a political party to continue funding; plus it'd be even more of a PR nightmare - "BE strikers reliant on English money" style headlines.

Not really. a very big well respected union helping out a smaller union would be popular with the members and supporters.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Agree totally, Minister Ross, who I will admit I had little time for previously, has really stood up for the taxpayer on this issue.

He has cried halt to the Unions who thought they saw the current situation as an opotunity to gouge John Taxpayer.

This is not over yet, but in my opinion unless the Unions in the Transport industry realise that they cannot shut down the country,and unless the Govt. realise that they can't have the transport industry run buy the people who run it, have the ability to shut down the country at a whim, with no consequences, then we are in the deep stuff.

no, he has stood up for himself. he doesn't give one jot about you, me or anyone else.

L1011 · 31-03-2017 10:06PM

end of the road wrote: »

not for much longer. union membership is going to start rising.

Have you got even the vaguest shred to support this?

Unite funding the NBRU might be popular with NBRU members but it will look pathetic to the general public. Without public support your strike will end in the dole queue - as shown so often in Ireland.

dublinman1990 · 31-03-2017 10:10PM

When I woke up this morning; I had no prior idea that this unofficial strike by BÉ drivers was going on since this morning. My commute to college today was a painful experience to endure for nearly all of the wrong reasons. I should have realistically stayed at home if I had the cop on to get news updates of it earlier this morning on RTÉ Aertel.

I also didn't know beforehand that the unofficial strike by BÉ drivers had hit most Dublin Bus services this morning. I did assume that Dublin Bus were running a full service for today. As I was walking to Seapoint DART Station at Temple Hill in Blackrock; I did see a 7A bus travelling along Monkstown Road going into Mountjoy Square at around 10:35 this morning. If I got to Seapoint knowing that DARTs were delayed; I could have got the 84 to Bray instead. But then, if I got the bus instead of the DART; I could potentially waiting for a really long time to wait for the 84 from Stradbrook Road to Bray. I did not want to endure a double nightmare of waiting for a delayed bus without knowing of the full facts of today's strike.

My commute to college today lasted for 2 hours from my home in Blackrock out to Bray. I did some of it by walking & by taking a DART from Seapoint.

When I arrived at Seapoint just before 10:45 this morning; I tagged on with my Student Leap Card without getting prior notice that the DART services were badly disrupted because of this morning's picket. Seapoint was unmanned this morning with no staff members present while I arrived there. I went to look at the platform RT display after I tagged on; it said that I had a minimum waiting time of 44 minutes to wait for a DART to Bray.

But realistically I was waiting an extra 20 minutes on top of that due to delays with the DART slowly returning to normal service after the unofficial picket was lifted by CIE. I was waiting for a total of 65 minutes for a DART from Seapoint to Bray. That was from 10:45 to 11:50. I arrived in Bray on the DART before 12:20 pm.

When I arrived at Bray I did see an empty ICR on the main northbound platform with it's engine switched off. There were no other DART trains present at Bray.

When I turned up at 12:30; I went to the toilet for 10 minutes. I got into class at 12:40 and expected the class to run until 3 o'clock today. I waited a further 10 minutes until I was told by my classmate that the teacher for my afternoon class was absent apparently due to being sick. I did not get any notice via email or otherwise from the college to say that the afternoon class was cancelled. The look of disbelief on my face after getting that news really was painful. It probably couldn't be helped given the circumstances of what happened today. She is married with Kids so she probably had no control the strike this morning. She probably had to stay home to mind the kids for today in any case.

To summarize my situation; it was a right waste of a day for me & some of my classmates who made the effort to come into class today. The majority of my classmates did not come in today because of the earlier disruption this morning as they would use transport services from some of the three CIE companies. One of my classmates lives in Wicklow Town & relies on getting a 133, provided by BÉ, from there to Bray on his journey between home & college. 2 of my classmates use Dublin Bus & Irish Rail services to get to college in Bray from Crumlin or Raheny. Other classmates live in Wicklow, notably in Bray, Kilcoole & Arklow.

I heard on RTÉ News at 6.1 this evening from John Kilraine that these rolling wildcat strikes from this dispute could expect themselves to continue for another few days until a resolution is given. I am not a student representative in any way but in realistic terms I can't wait that much longer for this BÉ dispute to go on unresolved into Easter & beyond. I will be finished along with many hundred's of thousands of students in May. I, along with these other students, do not have much time to waste regarding completing college work & exams before the summer holidays are around the corner. My situation is saying that I have only two weeks after Easter to finish before the summer holidays take hold.

So I am hoping that this dispute will not last that much longer to let it spread to the other CIE companies like IÉ & Dublin Bus. Let this dispute finish so we can get back to work in any way you can please. You're disrupting people's way of life by doing this illegal action. Don't let it fester into the unknown.

Last Stop · 31-03-2017 10:10PM

Whatever about the Bus Eireann strike, someone must be held accountable for what happened this morning.
Neither Irish Rail or Dublin Bus have any issues with their employers and so should not have been involved.
Could you imagine what would happen if workers in a private company just refused to turn up for work one random morning? No because it simply wouldn't happen because they would not get paid or possibly be out of a job.

While I wouldn't want to ignite another strike, I think that the workers who refused to work this morning should be docked pay as they did not work. Or better still let the union foot the bill. Someone somewhere knew about this and someone has to be held responsible.
Chances are this part of the strike will be all forgotten about in a few weeks and those responsible will get away scot free

Hilly Bill · 31-03-2017 10:13PM

Quackster wrote: »

No, you generally picket your own place of work if you're in dispute with your employer. You don't picket 'anywhere' you feel like it.

These pickets were orchestrated to give DB and IR staff (whether they wanted to or not) 'legitimate' reason for staying out of work for a few hours.

Sorry, that's supposed to say If you picket. A typo on my part.

road_high · 31-03-2017 10:14PM

Last Stop wrote: »

Whatever about the Bus Eireann strike, someone must be held accountable for what happened this morning.
Neither Irish Rail or Dublin Bus have any issues with their employers and so should not have been involved.
Could you imagine what would happen if workers in a private company just refused to turn up for work one random morning? No because it simply wouldn't happen because they would not get paid or possibly be out of a job.

While I wouldn't want to ignite another strike, I think that the workers who refused to work this morning should be docked pay as they did not work. Or better still let the union foot the bill. Someone somewhere knew about this and someone has to be held responsible.
Chances are this part of the strike will be all forgotten about in a few weeks and those responsible will get away scot free

On the contrary, I can see more of this happening...if I was reliant on IE or DB I'd be very seriously looking at reliable alternatives..

Bass Reeves · 31-03-2017 10:14PM

end of the road wrote: »

not for much longer. union membership is going to start rising.

Incorrect all data shows otherwise

end of the road wrote: »

it hasn't hindered it yet. when your terms are eradicated though you will be crying for representation from a union. even if a company refuses to recognise a union a union can be valueable and they can still advise you what to do if the company tries to pull a fast one should it ever happen.

Incorrect many multi nations here for years without union representation. Even when unions do represent workers in MN company's they canny on with none of the illogical practices that go on in BE etc as they would close

end of the road wrote: »

there is no hardball to play.

Incorrect it the only game in town ideally an ultimatum should be issued return to work or liquidation by next Friday.

end of the road wrote: »

Not really. a very big well respected union helping out a smaller union would be popular with the members and supporters.

Incorrect it one of the reasons the British Labour party will not see power for at least the next 10 years.

end of the road wrote: »

no, he has stood up for himself. he doesn't give one jot about you, me or anyone else.

Incorrect he has stood up for the tax payer and the travelling public

devnull · 31-03-2017 10:14PM

The thing is, if they start disciplining people that will be used as an excuse as a mandate for an official strike.

Arcade_Tryer · 31-03-2017 10:21PM

Last Stop wrote: »

While I wouldn't want to ignite another strike, I think that the workers who refused to work this morning should be docked pay as they did not work. Or better still let the union foot the bill. Someone somewhere knew about this and someone has to be held responsible.
Chances are this part of the strike will be all forgotten about in a few weeks and those responsible will get away scot free

And they would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for those meddling boards.ie users!

howiya · 31-03-2017 10:21PM

L1011 wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

not for much longer. union membership is going to start rising.

Have you got even the vaguest shred to support this?

Unite funding the NBRU might be popular with NBRU members but it will look pathetic to the general public. Without public support your strike will end in the dole queue - as shown so often in Ireland.

Wonder what Unite members think of their war chest being used to fund other unions

The Parish Priest. · 31-03-2017 10:39PM

Will bus Eireann be in liquidation by Easter?

Stephen15 · 31-03-2017 10:40PM

devnull wrote: »

The thing is, if they start disciplining people that will be used as an excuse as a mandate for an official strike.

Discipline those workers from BE that pulled that stunt this morning. Personally those should be dealt be legally by the gardai with prosuction in place for the main instigators. It shouldnt be Dublin Bus' job to prosecute people it should be the laws. Sounds like a good idea for a protest causing maximum disruption maybe that's what should for the next water charge protest if they make their comeback sometime in the future.

dublinman1990 · 31-03-2017 10:58PM

Ian O'Doherty has just said on tonight's Late Late Show on RTE One that he is in favour of a privatized bus service in this country as a result of today's BÉ strike.

Brendan Ogle is going with the solidarity line as per usual with his trade union record.

Jamie2k9 · 31-03-2017 10:58PM

The Parish Priest. wrote: »

Will bus Eireann be in liquidation by Easter?

Fingers Crossed!!

L1011 · 31-03-2017 11:03PM

The Parish Priest. wrote: »

Will bus Eireann be in liquidation by Easter?

If they survive this coming Friday I'd be surprised. Easter is a very long time away.

Without effective capitulation by the staff (dressed up with some tiny breadcrumb to pretend it isn't) the company will be trading insolvent very soon.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ian O'Doherty has just said on tonight's Late Late Show on RTE One that he is in favour of a privatized bus service in this country as a result of today's BÉ strike.

Brendan Ogle is going with the solidarity line as per usual with his trade union record.

Neither of those positions are changed from, well, ten years ago.

Jamie2k9 · 31-03-2017 11:03PM

L1011 wrote: »

We have numerous IR and DB staff on here. None have been supportive.

I suspect the level of support is massively overstated (and was likely massively overestimated by those organising it)

I fully suspect they will vote for action, places like Cork are guaranteed (they love a strike!).
_______

Fantastic to see Ross harden his stance and even bodies such as Dublin Chamber urging the Goverment not to get involved. O Leary's is losing significant credibility (not that it was high to begin wtih) and the NBRU have lost total control of members.

Best we can hope for is a hardening of legislation, DB/IE strike is inevitable IMO.

Stheno · 31-03-2017 11:05PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ian O'Doherty has just said on tonight's Late Late Show on RTE One that he is in favour of a privatized bus service in this country as a result of today's BÉ strike.

Brendan Ogle is going with the solidarity line as per usual with his trade union record.

Wasn't ogle in charge of the nbru when they did the flash strikes in IE around 2000?

WomanSkirtFan8 · 31-03-2017 11:05PM

pilly wrote: »

So what did they get then? Nothing. Ross is standing tough and the public agree with him.

Surely that's not what the drivers wanted?

It's probably their absolutely worst nightmare. The quickest way to lose public support is to really hurt the public. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.:rolleyes:

end of the road · 31-03-2017 11:08PM

L1011 wrote: »

Have you got even the vaguest shred to support this?

Unite funding the NBRU might be popular with NBRU members but it will look pathetic to the general public. Without public support your strike will end in the dole queue - as shown so often in Ireland.

nope, public support wouldn't make a difference to this strike's outcome like it didn't for luas. the luas staff didn't end up on the dole queue and got themselves a good deal. the greyhound workers dispite having public support got little if anything. same with dones which also had support.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect it the only game in town ideally an ultimatum should be issued return to work or liquidation by next Friday.

can't be done as that would be illegal. it is illegal to threaten to make a company insolvent.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect it one of the reasons the British Labour party will not see power for at least the next 10 years.

nope the next government will be a labour government. 10 years of tory rule and the people have had enough.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect he has stood up for the tax payer and the travelling public

he hasn't no . just himself.

L1011 · 31-03-2017 11:08PM

Stheno wrote: »

Wasn't ogle in charge of the nbru when they did the flash strikes in IE around 2000?

He was in charge of ILDA, who effectively ended rail freight in Ireland and may have actually caused IFI to close down. The environmental damage caused by that ILDA strike is insane.

end of the road wrote: »

nope the next government will be a labour government. 10 years of tory rule and the people have had enough.

Have you seen the polling figures?

We're looking at a generation of Tory government. Now that Scotland is lost that's 40 seats gone forever. Should Cornwall or Wales get antsy to leave that's more non-Tory seats vanished. Momentum/Labour is a joke - can't even hold seats they've had since the war.

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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