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Record house prices "linked to more lax lending rules". Intent replaces negligence.

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    #62
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Could they start with actually building social housing again? How about they stay out of interferring with the private purchase market? Both of these issues if addressed could go some way towards solving it. If you cannot afford to buy a house, you get a social house. If you can actually afford to buy a house, you buy a house. If you can afford to rent a nice house privately, then you do so. There was a time when it was like that - until the Government interferred a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.:rolleyes:

    What if we all just decide we can't afford to buy a house?

    Will we all get a social house?

    who will pay for all these houses?

    The goverment has realised that social houses cost a huge amount in the long run.

    It's not just supplying the house it's the upkeep and maintenance for life they have to finance too.

    **** that, we don't have a magic money tree.


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    #63
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Could they start with actually building social housing again? How about they stay out of interferring with the private purchase market? Both of these issues if addressed could go some way towards solving it. If you cannot afford to buy a house, you get a social house. If you can actually afford to buy a house, you buy a house. If you can afford to rent a nice house privately, then you do so. There was a time when it was like that - until the Government interferred a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.:rolleyes:

    What if we all just decide we can't afford to buy a house?

    Will we all get a social house?

    who will pay for all these houses?

    The goverment has realised that social houses cost a huge amount in the long run.

    It's not just supplying the house it's the upkeep and maintenance for life they have to finance too.

    **** that, we don't have a magic money tree.

    And don't forget people ended up just staying in the social houses and buying them for a knock down price even when their situation improved.

    It's not really fair people who have to struggle to pay a full mortgage.


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    #64
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    McGaggs wrote: »
    We've got the solution here folks, everyone will move to Finglas.

    I bought out in Kilbarrack year before last. 100Sqm semi detached 4 bed, huge garden, well under 300K. The solution is to buy in an area one can afford, there are still plenty of them in Dublin.


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    #65
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    There must be something in the Irish psyche what else can it be

    https://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/stats/mortgagearrears/Documents/2016q4_ie_mortgage_arrears_statistics.pdf

    Don't worry : If you drill in to the above you will see that despite the amount of mortgages in arrears/default only a tiny amount are ever repossessed and it take years, so don't worry if you take out a huge mortgage.


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    #66
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    mariaalice wrote: »
    There must be something in the Irish psyche what else can it be

    https://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/stats/mortgagearrears/Documents/2016q4_ie_mortgage_arrears_statistics.pdf

    Don't worry : If you drill in to the above you will see that despite the amount of mortgages in arrears/default only a tiny amount are ever repossessed and it take years, so don't worry if you take out a huge mortgage.

    Yet we have the usual anti everything brigade lambasting the goverment for people been evicted even though the banks have said if you just engage with them you won't be evicted. But some people are so self entitled they won't even bother.

    You get nothing for been honest. Might aswell scam the system.


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    #67
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Yet we have the usual anti everything brigade lambasting the goverment for people been evicted even though the banks have said if you just engage with them you won't be evicted. But some people are so self entitled they won't even bother.

    You get nothing for been honest. Might as well scam the system.

    Its not scamming the system but it is a factor in the Irish property market that make it different.


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    #68
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    You'll see the figures declining, e.g. the situation is getting better. I'm not really sure what the point fo fecking people out, selling the property at a fraction of it's mortgage and expecting that people will pay back the unsecured debt. It doesn't massively effect supply and does impact how much mortgages cost.

    The current system on reposeesions is entirely sensible except for some isolated cases of 'won't pays'.


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    #69
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    You'll see the figures declining, e.g. the situation is getting better. I'm not really sure what the point fo fecking people out, selling the property at a fraction of it's mortgage and expecting that people will pay back the unsecured debt. It doesn't massively effect supply and does impact how much mortgages cost.

    The current system on reposeesions is entirely sensible except for some isolated cases of 'won't pays'.

    I am not saying feck people out far from its just a point among others about how different the Irish property market is.


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    #70
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,119 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    What if we all just decide we can't afford to buy a house?

    Will we all get a social house?

    who will pay for all these houses?

    The goverment has realised that social houses cost a huge amount in the long run.

    It's not just supplying the house it's the upkeep and maintenance for life they have to finance too.

    **** that, we don't have a magic money tree.

    And don't forget people ended up just staying in the social houses and buying them for a knock down price even when their situation improved.

    It's not really fair people who have to struggle to pay a full mortgage.

    So in your world the only people who matter are those who struggle to pay a mortgage?


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    #71
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    So in your world the only people who matter are those who struggle to pay a mortgage?

    No but I think they should be helped out just as much as the "vulnerable" people who get a new exact same house for a fraction of what the struggling working person has to pay.


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    #72
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,119 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    No but I think they should be helped out just as much as the "vulnerable" people who get a new exact same house for a fraction of what the struggling working person has to pay.

    There are struggling working people that can't afford to buy a house. Those same people have no access to social housing either. There are struggling working people paying top money for private rental properties and cannot afford to buy a house. There are struggling working people falling behind on mortgage papyments and in danger of losing their homes. Many already have.

    I offered possible solutions in my earlier post and all you came back with was guff about a money tree and working people struggling to pay a mortgage. Its a broader world than that. Its interesting to note that in this country's time of not having a pot to piss in, our healthcare and housing was in a far better condition.


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    #73
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I am reading a book called the silk road by Peter Frankopan it definitively shows that humans don't learn from history, when the Romans captured Egypt the sudden wealth cause a rise in household income interest rates went from 12% to 4% and this in turn fulled the familiar boom that accompanies a flood of cheap capital : a surge in property prices.


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    #74
    Calypso 1
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Calypso 1


    It's stupid government policy giving people almost 80 to 90% mortgages again, here we go again

    We have learned nothing, the central bank shouldn't have relaxed their rules and allow people to borrow

    Collosal sums for houses, same old story, we haven't learned from the recent past unfortunately


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    #75
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Calypso 1 wrote: »
    It's stupid government policy giving people almost 80 to 90% mortgages again, here we go again

    What government policy is this exactly?
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    How should the Government go about solving the housing crisis?

    Serious question.

    Look at the likes of the Netherlands who have a successful model in place. Their population is a multiple of that of the RoI and they have far less space to house those people. Alas, a plan like that will never get off the ground here because the government won't put the plan in place and Irish people won't change their mindset in relation to property, more importantly. I have no doubt that I'll be reading the same boom and bust threads in five years time.


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    #76
    jiltloop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Allinall wrote: »
    It's the people paying the inflated prices that are to blame.

    No one else.

    What an ignorant, ill informed post.


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    #77
    NyOmnishambles
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭NyOmnishambles


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Landlords are creaming it at the moment, those rents are not sustainable.

    Some are I am sure, plenty aren't

    The ones who are creaming it are the Government

    I have an apartment I rent out because it wasn't really worth selling it when I moved into a house

    There are a few allowable expenses but for the average person who works and who also owns a second property and rents it out they generally end up paying nearly 50% of the rental income in tax

    In my own situation that means I end up breaking even after the mortgage is taken care of

    So whilst technically I am not making a profit I do still have an asset that isn't costing me anything so I am in no way complaining

    I just think that a lot of renters are not aware of the massive cut that the government get from rental income and blame the high prices solely on landlords when that really isn't the case


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    #78
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    What if we all just decide we can't afford to buy a house?

    Will we all get a social house?

    who will pay for all these houses?

    The goverment has realised that social houses cost a huge amount in the long run.

    It's not just supplying the house it's the upkeep and maintenance for life they have to finance too.

    **** that, we don't have a magic money tree.

    And don't forget people ended up just staying in the social houses and buying them for a knock down price even when their situation improved.

    It's not really fair people who have to struggle to pay a full mortgage.

    At least social housing is an asset that sees subsidized rents coming back into the local authority as opposed to the local authority having to subsidize market rents in the private sector.


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    #79
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    At least social housing is an asset that sees subsidized rents coming back into the local authority as opposed to the local authority having to subsidize market rents in the private sector.

    Yes. This.

    We built social houses when we were much poorer


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NyOmnishambles wrote: »
    Some are I am sure, plenty aren't

    The ones who are creaming it are the Government

    Spot on. I've had my townhouse for 16 years now. It has been rented out for 10 of those years, and I can count on one hand, the number of months where I have made a clear profit (which disappears as the next service fee or tax is introduced). By the time that taxes are taken out (regardless of an actual profit), and the costs inherent in renting out the property (damages, charges, etc), I'm usually breaking even. Never mind that after someone moves out, usually my place is vacant for a month or so afterwards while the place is cleaned, repaired, furniture replaced, etc. Which adds more costs which often aren't even covered by the yearly profit intake.

    I don't think renters understand just how expensive it is to run a place for renting.. and the amount of damage or wear/tear that many tenants do to the place. When my previous tenants moved out, I had to redo the lawns front and back because their three dogs (which they weren't supposed to have) had wrecked the place with holes, and "crap" all over the area. Fences were also damaged, and the flowerbeds (required in the estate) were torn up.

    I'm sure there are some landlords making a bundle out there. I just don't know any. Virtually, all the landlords in my area that I know are still struggling. But then, we all really bought the places to live rather than as an investment. Worst decisions in our lives.

    And I've seen no help from the government regarding my mortgage or the house itself... instead, theres a grand parade of charges and taxes.. But then, I decided a long time ago that the government is not there to help middle class people..


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    #81
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Calypso 1 wrote: »
    It's stupid government policy giving people almost 80 to 90% mortgages again, here we go again

    We have learned nothing, the central bank shouldn't have relaxed their rules and allow people to borrow

    Collosal sums for houses, same old story, we haven't learned from the recent past unfortunately

    NAMA 2 anyone. Bailout 2...., see it soon.


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    #82
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    NAMA 2 anyone. Bailout 2...., see it soon.

    There's no issue with 80% or 90% mortgages. The issue is with LTI and that should be very, very tightly controlled.


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    #83
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I bought out in Kilbarrack year before last. 100Sqm semi detached 4 bed, huge garden, well under 300K. The solution is to buy in an area one can afford, there are still plenty of them in Dublin.

    I personally think many are worried that their postal code will affect their job prospects, especially if they have the likes of D11, D13, D10, D12, D22 or D24 on their CV, compared to applicants with D4, D6, D14.

    Employers in Dublin (especially in professional areas) tend to look very unfavourably on you in you have a non middle/upper middle class address.

    So I guess paying the premium for the prestige of a food postal code pays back with excess over time.


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    #84
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    I personally think many are worried that their postal code will affect their job prospects, especially if they have the likes of D11, D13, D10, D12, D22 or D24 on their CV, compared to applicants with D4, D6, D14.

    Employers in Dublin (especially in professional areas) tend to look very unfavourably on you in you have a non middle/upper middle class address.

    So I guess paying the premium for the prestige of a food postal code pays back with excess over time.

    In my opinion, that's a load of sh*te.


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    #85
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    I personally think many are worried that their postal code will affect their job prospects, especially if they have the likes of D11, D13, D10, D12, D22 or D24 on their CV, compared to applicants with D4, D6, D14.

    Employers in Dublin (especially in professional areas) tend to look very unfavourably on ...

    Horsesh1t.
    Besides D13 is fuppin Sutton and Howth! Sweet baby jesus... :rolleyes:


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    #86
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    I personally think many are worried that their postal code will affect their job prospects, especially if they have the likes of D11, D13, D10, D12, D22 or D24 on their CV, compared to applicants with D4, D6, D14.

    Employers in Dublin (especially in professional areas) tend to look very unfavourably on you in you have a non middle/upper middle class address.

    So I guess paying the premium for the prestige of a food postal code pays back with excess over time.

    Guess it's okay then as I'm in D5 'just off the Howth Road' :pac:


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    #87
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Allinall wrote: »
    It's the people paying the inflated prices that are to blame.

    No one else.

    I'd love to hear your advice to me then.

    31 years old, engaged to be married, working in Dublin, living in a one bed apartment.

    I want a secure home where I can raise a family in the coming years: What do you propose I do? Genuinely, if you have some good ideas, I'm all ears. Because the prospect of being locked into a 400k+ mortgage until I'm 66 for a shoebox on the outskirts of the county is not an appealing one, but I can't see what the alternative is?


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    #88
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,066 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Renting out a place with another person in North Dublin and we ain't making fortunes.

    But no question landlords have been helped.


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    #89
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    What would your advice (from the obvious Mt Sinai of your omniscience) be to normal families looking to settle down somewhere?

    Put up with punitive upward rents, put their kids in the local school and roots down in an area and pray that their accidental landlord doesn't suddenly decide to sell the property from under them in the next year or so?

    Should they go inter-railing or take a gap year or something?

    My advice to any family would be to buy a house that's much less expensive than 400k. It may not be in a leafy suburb with the best schools but it's affordable and not likely to leave you in the ditch the next time a recession hits.


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    #90
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    I'd love to hear your advice to me then.

    31 years old, engaged to be married, working in Dublin, living in a one bed apartment.

    I want a secure home where I can raise a family in the coming years: What do you propose I do? Genuinely, if you have some good ideas, I'm all ears. Because the prospect of being locked into a 400k+ mortgage until I'm 66 for a shoebox on the outskirts of the county is not an appealing one, but I can't see what the alternative is?

    Buy in D5


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    #91
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Buy in D5

    That's what I did. I'm also close to the Howth Road, DART station, shops, etc. Perfectly possible to have these things within that budget.


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