Ireland, failed state?

BuilderPlumber · 28-03-2017 6:55am #1

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated. Look at all what is going on today. The people are being forgotten and inconvenienced all the time. Some of the issues:

1. This disgusting rogue bus strike. Ireland MUST BE the only country in the world without legislation to properly deal with rogue strikes. The right of people to have a service should overrule any dispute between parties and especially here as neither wants to show goodwill. Any other country would declare this an illegal criminal action and disband this rogue strike immediately.

2. The Garda corruption. All faith in the police force flies out the door when one hears that Gardai are using forged convictions to up their route to promotion. Once more, government action here has been poor.

3. The banking crisis. The way the banks were able to extort money from the government still is felt today by many who lost their jobs because of a recession to bail out the rich, warmongers, speculators, etc. and Ireland was in the thick of all this global caball.

4. The church. Clerical abuse, Magdalene launderies, industrial schools, etc. I am a Christian but have not been a Catholic for a long time.

These are just 4 examples of Ireland's failed state and all show dictatorship is well and truly alive, forced not by the inactive and ineffective government but by entities the government has decided should act without being regulated often.

Don't get me wrong: Ireland is a lovely country with a lot to offer. But it is poorly governed and because of this, non-government dictators have taken hold.

FTA69 · 28-03-2017 7:01am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated. Look at all what is going on today. The people are being forgotten and inconvenienced all the time. Some of the issues:

1. This disgusting rogue bus strike. Ireland MUST BE the only country in the world without legislation to properly deal with rogue strikes. The right of people to have a service should overrule any dispute between parties and especially here as neither wants to show goodwill. Any other country would declare this an illegal criminal action and disband this rogue strike immediately.

2. The Garda corruption. All faith in the police force flies out the door when one hears that Gardai are using forged convictions to up their route to promotion. Once more, government action here has been poor.

3. The banking crisis. The way the banks were able to extort money from the government still is felt today by many who lost their jobs because of a recession to bail out the rich, warmongers, speculators, etc. and Ireland was in the thick of all this global caball.

4. The church. Clerical abuse, Magdalene launderies, industrial schools, etc. I am a Christian but have not been a Catholic for a long time.

These are just 4 examples of Ireland's failed state and all show dictatorship is well and truly alive, forced not by the inactive and ineffective government but by entities the government has decided should act without being regulated often.

Don't get me wrong: Ireland is a lovely country with a lot to offer. But it is poorly governed and because of this, non-government dictators have taken hold.

Ah would you ever go on; there really is some drivel on boards some days. So your definition of a "failed state" is a bus strike? Jesus the buses and trains in London are on strike every few months; train drivers in Berlin had a big strike last year - and they're some of the wealthiest cities in the world.

As for police corruption; I had an AK47 wielding cop demand money off me in Ghana for the heinous crime of being in a taxi passing his roadblock.

I would suggest you don't know the meaning of the term failed state.

Grayson · 28-03-2017 7:01am

I prefer rogue state

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/rogue_state

a nation or state regarded as breaking international law and posing a threat to the security of other nations.

Are the bus drivers about to invade somewhere? How are they going to do that when they won't drive?

Grayson · 28-03-2017 7:04am

FTA69 wrote: »

Ah would you ever go on; there really is some drivel on boards some days. So your definition of a "failed state" is a bus strike? Jesus the buses and trains in London are on strike every few months; train drivers in Berlin had a big strike last year - and they're some of the wealthiest cities in the world.

As for police corruption; I had an AK47 wielding cop demand money off me in Ghana for the heinous crime of being in a taxi passing his roadblock.

I would suggest you don't know the meaning of the term failed state.

Even that's not a failed state. The government is still in control. When I think of a failed state I think of a place with no functioning government like Somalia.

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-03-2017 7:05am

One thing it never failed at was corruption

whiskeyman · 28-03-2017 7:05am

FTA69 wrote: »

you don't know the meaning of the term failed state.

Grayson wrote: »

I prefer rogue state

Ah shure, we're in an awful state altogether...

BuilderPlumber · 28-03-2017 7:05am

FTA69 wrote: »

Ah would you ever go on; there really is some drivel on boards some days. So your definition of a "failed state" is a bus strike? Jesus the buses and trains in London are on strike every few months; train drivers in Berlin had a big strike last year - and they're some of the wealthiest cities in the world.

As for police corruption; I had an AK47 wielding cop demand money off me in Ghana for the heinous crime of being in a taxi passing his roadblock.

I would suggest you don't know the meaning of the term failed state.

When people dismiss one's concerns, no wonder things remain bad. This bus strike along with the other 3 things I mention are wrong and Ireland would be a better country without them.

Sure, that Ghana incident is worse police corruption that is quite clear. Then, there are other places near Ghana that are even worse again. Ghana is meant to be stable West Africa!

Ireland is a failed state in many ways. That does NOT mean it is the worst failed state but things are slipping and there are things that need solving now before things get worse. Simple as.

Barry Badrinath · 28-03-2017 7:10am

Failed State? Far from it.

Incompetent, lacking backbone and soft as puppy sh1t, yes.

Libya is a failed state, Ireland is deficient in strong leadership.

The examples in the OP are mirrored throughout the world in various respects, that doesnt mean they are all failed states.

blinding · 28-03-2017 7:10am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

One thing it never failed at was corruption

We are very good at Corruption and particularly at hiding it.....

We are certainly up there with the best of them for staying in Position no matter how incompetent / corrupt our politicians are found to be........

PhuckHugh · 28-03-2017 7:13am

I would have thought the state of our health service, suicide rates and the fact that we are heading to be the most obese country in Europe would have been higher up the list than a bus strike..

gramar · 28-03-2017 7:14am

Amoan Grumpy gives his view...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYiLLyXvkFY

Calina · 28-03-2017 7:16am

When I see peopke saying Ireland must be the only place where... I assume this person has extremely limited experience of the world.

Ireland is not failed. It is not perfect but it is highly ranked for democracy and transparency. It has a functional civil service.

Come back to me when you have read up on Syria, Yemen and Somalia. You dont know what a failed state is of you think Ireland is one.

VinLieger · 28-03-2017 7:16am

PhuckHugh wrote: »

I would have thought the state of our health service, suicide rates and the fact that we are heading to be the most obese country in Europe would have been higher up the list than a bus strike..

The same poster has been running around boards posting in every bus strike thread, methinks someones life might be slightly inconvenienced by the strike.

Hilarious that it's something as trivial as a bus strike that was the straw to break the camels back for the OP tbh.

Your Face · 28-03-2017 7:19am

Hugs

jimgoose · 28-03-2017 7:26am

If you think things are pear-shaped now, wait until I'm elected President. Remember Marlon Brando as Col. Walter Kurtz in Apocalypse Now? :cool:

Junkyard Tom · 28-03-2017 7:39am

Busses are cool OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkTw7J-hGmg

jimgoose · 28-03-2017 7:42am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Busses are cool OP...

That's pretty fuckin' metal. How about this fella, firing a bendy-bus in sideways like Ari Vatanen:

Wheeliebin30 · 28-03-2017 7:43am

See the thread I started on irish people and their whinging for my response op:)

You are the type of person I was talking about.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057716158/1/#post102882317

murpho999 · 28-03-2017 7:44am

Failed state....ha ha. Ridiculous.

OP should go live in Iraq, Somalia, Syria or Libya for a while.

Every country has problems, even the successful ones and Ireland is actually very successful and wealthy and if you have travelled at all you would realise it's one of the better places to live in the world.

A bus strike or political in-competencies does not make a country a failed state.

Junkyard Tom · 28-03-2017 7:51am

Fair play to the OP for starting a Bus and Bus-Driver appreciation thread. Here are some more Bus Driver skills on display:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ig5CxS34Q

Samuel T. Cogley · 28-03-2017 8:04am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

When people dismiss one's concerns, no wonder things remain bad. This bus strike along with the other 3 things I mention are wrong and Ireland would be a better country without them.

Sure, that Ghana incident is worse police corruption that is quite clear. Then, there are other places near Ghana that are even worse again. Ghana is meant to be stable West Africa!

Ireland is a failed state in many ways. That does NOT mean it is the worst failed state but things are slipping and there are things that need solving now before things get worse. Simple as.

In fairness Ghana is quite successful and anyone who has spent any time there knows the local cops like to play a little game of toll booths now and again.

I think you need to go an live in a real failed state for a while, for example somewhere that cracks down on people striking.

Samuel T. Cogley · 28-03-2017 8:06am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Fair play to the OP for starting a Bus and Bus-Driver appreciation thread. Here are some more Bus Driver skills on display:

Bus drivers 10/10, the guy filming it on a potato, not so much.

AMC1991 · 28-03-2017 8:13am

Ireland isn't a failed state by any means. However, my biggest gripe with Ireland is the severe lack of accountability across the majority of the public sector.

Noddyholder · 28-03-2017 8:13am

I think the OP missed his bus due to the strike & now is out of there comfort Zone , sure that equals a failed state, We are a lot of things, but a failed state is not one of them.

Yourself isit · 28-03-2017 8:18am

VinLieger wrote: »

The same poster has been running around boards posting in every bus strike thread, methinks someones life might be slightly inconvenienced by the strike.

Hilarious that it's something as trivial as a bus strike that was the straw to break the camels back for the OP tbh.

Or that he thinks strikes are examples of a "failed state", or that other countries don't have them.

Strikes in fact only happen in stable democracies.

jimgoose · 28-03-2017 8:20am

Yourself isit wrote: »

Or that he thinks strikes are examples of a "failed state", or that other countries don't have them.

Strikes in fact only happen in stable democracies.

Correct. In an actual failed state, the strikers would promptly be shot by the first warlord who wanted to go by bus to visit his mammy. Here, the minister with relevant portfolio hasn't even punched anybody. How stable is that??

seachto7 · 28-03-2017 8:21am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated. Look at all what is going on today. The people are being forgotten and inconvenienced all the time. Some of the issues:

It's hardly Venezuala... :rolleyes:

archer22 · 28-03-2017 8:30am

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya

Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

_Brian · 28-03-2017 8:34am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated. Look at all what is going on today. The people are being forgotten and inconvenienced all the time. Some of the issues:

1. This disgusting rogue bus strike. Ireland MUST BE the only country in the world without legislation to properly deal with rogue strikes. The right of people to have a service should overrule any dispute between parties and especially here as neither wants to show goodwill. Any other country would declare this an illegal criminal action and disband this rogue strike immediately.

2. The Garda corruption. All faith in the police force flies out the door when one hears that Gardai are using forged convictions to up their route to promotion. Once more, government action here has been poor.

3. The banking crisis. The way the banks were able to extort money from the government still is felt today by many who lost their jobs because of a recession to bail out the rich, warmongers, speculators, etc. and Ireland was in the thick of all this global caball.

4. The church. Clerical abuse, Magdalene launderies, industrial schools, etc. I am a Christian but have not been a Catholic for a long time.

These are just 4 examples of Ireland's failed state and all show dictatorship is well and truly alive, forced not by the inactive and ineffective government but by entities the government has decided should act without being regulated often.

Don't get me wrong: Ireland is a lovely country with a lot to offer. But it is poorly governed and because of this, non-government dictators have taken hold.

I think perspective is needed here.
Yes there are some problems ongoing with the running of the state and many wouldnon the face of it seem avoidable. But I done see our problems as being much more than other states, particularly those coming out from under colonisation. I'd say compared to states across Europe were doing just fine.

If you want to see proper failed states maybe research North Korea, or any host of African nations.

A bus strike does not equal a failed state and I don't see much illegal about it since they followed the industrial action protocols as required by the state.

murpho999 · 28-03-2017 8:35am

archer22 wrote: »

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya
Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

The comparison is done because the OP said Ireland is a failed state and people are defining what a failed state is.

As for being compared to other European states, we are still successful.

Being part of PIGS is an economic issue and Ireland has recovered the best out of the lot.

Wheeliebin30 · 28-03-2017 8:37am

archer22 wrote: »

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya
Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

34,000 homeless people in Sweden says otherwise.

ChikiChiki · 28-03-2017 8:39am

Not a failed state but more a declining state under current governance. That can be fixed of course.

Bribery and corruption sustains poverty. Money is pocketed by officials instead of being used for vital services such as healthcare and infrastructural improvement. We are certainly way behind in both largely as a result of past shenanigans.

Wildcard7 · 28-03-2017 8:41am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

When people dismiss one's concerns, no wonder things remain bad. This bus strike along with the other 3 things I mention are wrong and Ireland would be a better country without them.

If you wanted a serious discussion you shouldn't have taken an unrealistic and extremist stance on the situation from square one.

Most people can relate to at least one of your points made, but taking those points to declare that Ireland has failed as a state makes you a spoiled brat with unrealistic ideas of the world in the eyes of most.

Mind you not even that's exlusive to Ireland. I'm coming from a country that is arguably organised a lot better than Ireland, and yet people constantly declare things like "This is the third time this week the train is 4 minutes late, we have the worst public transport", "I can't believe how much $Item costs in this country", "all our politicians are corrupt or incompetent" or "tenants have no right in this country". I often wonder if they ever left the place they're born or even read the news.

If Ireland is a failed state, then 95% of all states on this planet are failed. If all states are failed, none are failed. What's your point?

biko · 28-03-2017 8:44am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Ireland, failed state?

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated.

You appear to have answered your own question.

Real definition: "A failed state is a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.
Your definition: "people are being forgotten and inconvenienced all the time"

There is a difference there...

mahamageehad · 28-03-2017 8:45am

I've not been following the bus strike, but I'm living near Frankfurt and at the start of the year all buses went on strike in the state of Hessen (roughly the size of Munster) for almost 3 weeks. I depend on the bus for work, I was lucky to be able to work from home and get lifts during that time. So, plenty of places have bus strikes!

Yourself isit · 28-03-2017 8:45am

archer22 wrote: »

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya
Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

That's not the title of this thread though. Or the original post.

"Ireland worse than Norway" wouldn't get this response. We'd agree.

archer22 · 28-03-2017 8:46am

murpho999 wrote: »

The comparison is done because the OP said Ireland is a failed state and people are defining what a failed state is.

As for being compared to other European states, we are still successful.

Being part of PIGS is an economic issue and Ireland has recovered the best out of the lot.

The only reason Ireland is not a complete disaster is because it has been able to export huge portions of its population to countries of the former British empire every time it has another self inflicted economic disaster.

Having the EU to pump billions in at those times is also a big help in keeping it floating.

The other "failed States" don't have those rescue mechanisms to save their asses every time they fock up.

elefant · 28-03-2017 8:48am

archer22 wrote: »

To show how 'good' Ireland is many here compare it to places like Somalia or bombed and destroyed States like Libya
Hey how about comparing with its fellow western European democracies and decide is it a failure in comparasion to most of them.
It certainly is a failure compared to the rest of the northern non Latin countries.
Ireland is after all one of the PIGs.

Even better, compare us to other nations that were only formed in the last 100 years. We don't do too badly in comparisons with Poland, Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Estonia- the other nations formed shortly after the end of WW1.

murpho999 · 28-03-2017 8:50am

archer22 wrote: »

The only reason Ireland is not a complete disaster is because it has been able to export huge portions of its population to countries of the former British empire every time it has another self inflicted economic disaster.

Having the EU to pump billions in at those times is also a big help in keeping it floating.

The other "failed States" don't have those rescue mechanisms to save their asses every time they fock up.

Complete and utter rubbish.

You are also just talking about the economy which is not what defines a state or nationhood.

archer22 · 28-03-2017 8:53am

murpho999 wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish.

You are also just talking about the economy which is not what defines a state or nationhood.

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

murpho999 · 28-03-2017 9:00am

archer22 wrote: »

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

No, they're functioning, not all ideal but functioning.

Below is the definition of a failed state;

"Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein.

Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions

Inability to provide public services

Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community"

Ireland is not a failed state in anyway, shape or form.

RWCNT · 28-03-2017 9:06am

Is the OP the same poster that was comparing the bus strike to terrorism in the Bus Eireann thread?

elefant · 28-03-2017 9:09am

archer22 wrote: »

So everything else here is not a failure then

Health Service

Police force

Transport

All the basics of a functioning successful state.

They might have issues, but they're not failures. They still function.

kunst nugget · 28-03-2017 9:12am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

When people dismiss one's concerns, no wonder things remain bad.

But if your concerns are so wildly exaggerated then what can people do besides dismiss them?

There's some shítty things about life in Ireland but a bus strike isn't one of them.

I've hated the influence of the Catholic Church on Irish society but surely its influence is at an all time low and continuing to dwindle. How much influence did they have on the recent Marriage Equality referendum?

The issues with the banking crisis and Garda corruption are concerns and need proper investigation but there still not indicative of a failed state. The health service and mental health facilities would be bigger priorities for me.

Like many others have said, I think you need to look at what is going on in the rest of the world before bemoaning Ireland as a country going down the tubes.

wakka12 · 28-03-2017 9:17am

on par with failed states of Somalia, Haiti and Yemen OP. Id love to see you experience life in a country thats actually hard to live in

I love Sean nos · 28-03-2017 9:19am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is increasingly obvious that Ireland is a failed stated.

You couldn't even get the first sentence of your demented rant correct. Suggest you install this:

RobertKK · 28-03-2017 9:20am

Ireland is one of the best countries in the world.

Every country has people who do the wrong thing, unless one thinks people in other developed countries are simply robots.

We have it good in Ireland, there is always room for improvement, there will always be injustices, strikes and people who fail to see how lucky we are to be from somewhere like western Europe.

The news reports mostly the bad news, but look around you, I know I feel privileged that I come from a country that fights way above it's weight for the size of country we live in.

We rose from poverty, famine and occupation into one of the richest countries on the planet, despite recent history.

There is always room for improvement, the areas that need improvement don't mean we are a failed state.

Riddle101 · 28-03-2017 9:32am

Ireland has it's flaws but I wouldn't call it a failed state. It just needs to get it's head out of it's arse.

Pure tashte · 28-03-2017 12:15pm

I think the problem is that Ireland is generally compared to the most developed countries in the world in these circumstances. Fair enough, Ireland might be "shít" when compared to Canada, Australia, Holland, Scandinavian countries, etc. But even when compared to countries in Eastern Europe, which in themselves are pretty high on the development scale in global terms, maybe Ireland isn't that much of a hole after all.

It's a bit like saying Sunderland are shít cos they're bottom of the Premier Leaugue; they mightn't seem so bad if they had to play the League of Ireland champions.

kupus · 28-03-2017 12:18pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Ireland is one of the best countries in the world.

Every country has people who do the wrong thing, unless one thinks people in other developed countries are simply robots.

We have it good in Ireland, there is always room for improvement, there will always be injustices, strikes and people who fail to see how lucky we are to be from somewhere like western Europe.

The news reports mostly the bad news, but look around you, I know I feel privileged that I come from a country that fights way above it's weight for the size of country we live in.

We rose from poverty, famine and occupation into one of the richest countries on the planet, despite recent history.

There is always room for improvement, the areas that need improvement don't mean we are a failed state.

Say that to a guy that has worked all his life and didnt complain about it. He just got on with it.
tell him how great the country is and how the magnificent health service that he has contributed to all his life now has a year and a half waiting list to check and see if he has a life threatening condition now that he is a pensioner.

Yeah the country is grrreat shure it is.

RobertKK · 28-03-2017 1:41pm

kupus wrote: »

Say that to a guy that has worked all his life and didnt complain about it. He just got on with it.
tell him how great the country is and how the magnificent health service that he has contributed to all his life now has a year and a half waiting list to check and see if he has a life threatening condition now that he is a pensioner.

Yeah the country is grrreat shure it is.

My father recently was taken to hospital, we were told to prepare for the worse, they saved his life and he is well again.
He worked hard all his life - until he was unable to and is 90 years old.

We can all take the bad stories and make out all the bad stories are the reality. I could not complain about what the health service did for my father, he doesn't have health insurance, but got the treatment he needed.
W rarely hear the good stories about our health system, but it is not all bad stories or good stories.
Like everything else, nothing should stand still, and improvements needed.

Ireland, failed state?

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